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On February 22 2012 02:48 VPVanek wrote:Its always been an scv. You have anger issues, you fit the perfect characteristics of a true zerg.
 Ok then.
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Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards.
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On February 22 2012 02:48 VPVanek wrote:Its always been an scv. You have anger issues, you fit the perfect characteristics of a true zerg.
Haha. Can I ask if your signature has anything to do with the race you play? ><
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Well this thread sure got ugly pretty darn fast. =[
Still sad to see ghost go, even more sad that they are releasing this 2 days before a major tournament though. T_T''
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On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards.
Feel free to discuss some of those methods while also factoring in that Zergs didn't do the same strategies back then.
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On February 22 2012 02:45 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:43 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:38 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:36 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:32 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:28 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:21 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:20 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:09 eourcs wrote:On February 22 2012 02:04 Luppy1 wrote:
[quote]
Snipe isn't taken out of the game. It's still an option. Terran players just need to do more now.
A handful of mutas is not an issue at all for protoss and it's not possible to get a huge muta ball until it's late late game
Neural is still technically an option after the nerf, but who uses it? It's pretty much the same thing with snipe. When you have 6 to 8 gases and all your gas is being invested into mutas, it's quite easy to get up to 24-30 mutas, it's not late late game. Snipe can still be spammed on T3 units at a safe distance. You do not lose the ghosts. They still help out in killing off the T3 of the zerg. But, the terran player might need more than just pure ghosts now. Infestors die outright if you simply insist on using np when the situation does not allow it. It's not the same. What were you doing in between the time he's getting his 5th to 8th gases? If you simply do nothing, of course it's not going to be late late game. He is going to die outright if he makes nothing but mutas earlier on. Terran could never make "pure ghosts" and win against Infestor/BL into Ultra/Ling. No idea where this nonsense came from, but it's completely false. Pure Ghosts + original army is sufficient. That's why this patch is going through. Why else would they be nerfed if they are fine the way they were. So...not pure Ghosts, lol. The reason is obvious: Blizzard is caving to QQ and not testing their changes. I mean going pure ghosts as the counter. I thought it's clear enough. My bad for overestimating. No one openly QQ-ed about ghosts. So, I don't know what you're talking about. Good thing blizzard picked it up though. Sounds like you're pretty open about QQing about it. You can't counter BL/Infestor into Ultra/Ling with just Ghosts. You MUST increase Siege Tank/Marauder production, since Zerg will always outproduce Terran. This isn't hard. Actually, all that I've said so far is that the ghost nerf isn't that bad. I've never claimed that ghosts are OP or anything. Anyway, this is kinda pointless. I'm just here to see the patch notes and I'm not interested in sharing my knowledge with you.. Whatever change that blizzard pushes out, I'll just have to adapt my play. Balance hardly affects me anyway. Cheers. How is the nerf not that bad? It literally makes Ghosts terrible against everything that isn't a High Templar or Infestor.
That's literally not true, because EMP is literally really good vs. Protoss.
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On February 22 2012 02:51 city42 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:45 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:43 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:38 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:36 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:32 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:28 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:21 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:20 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:09 eourcs wrote:
[quote]
Neural is still technically an option after the nerf, but who uses it? It's pretty much the same thing with snipe.
When you have 6 to 8 gases and all your gas is being invested into mutas, it's quite easy to get up to 24-30 mutas, it's not late late game. Snipe can still be spammed on T3 units at a safe distance. You do not lose the ghosts. They still help out in killing off the T3 of the zerg. But, the terran player might need more than just pure ghosts now. Infestors die outright if you simply insist on using np when the situation does not allow it. It's not the same. What were you doing in between the time he's getting his 5th to 8th gases? If you simply do nothing, of course it's not going to be late late game. He is going to die outright if he makes nothing but mutas earlier on. Terran could never make "pure ghosts" and win against Infestor/BL into Ultra/Ling. No idea where this nonsense came from, but it's completely false. Pure Ghosts + original army is sufficient. That's why this patch is going through. Why else would they be nerfed if they are fine the way they were. So...not pure Ghosts, lol. The reason is obvious: Blizzard is caving to QQ and not testing their changes. I mean going pure ghosts as the counter. I thought it's clear enough. My bad for overestimating. No one openly QQ-ed about ghosts. So, I don't know what you're talking about. Good thing blizzard picked it up though. Sounds like you're pretty open about QQing about it. You can't counter BL/Infestor into Ultra/Ling with just Ghosts. You MUST increase Siege Tank/Marauder production, since Zerg will always outproduce Terran. This isn't hard. Actually, all that I've said so far is that the ghost nerf isn't that bad. I've never claimed that ghosts are OP or anything. Anyway, this is kinda pointless. I'm just here to see the patch notes and I'm not interested in sharing my knowledge with you.. Whatever change that blizzard pushes out, I'll just have to adapt my play. Balance hardly affects me anyway. Cheers. How is the nerf not that bad? It literally makes Ghosts terrible against everything that isn't a High Templar or Infestor. That's literally not true, because EMP is literally really good vs. Protoss.
Okay, Snipe then.
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What has changed in zergs play vs T in the last 6 months? I can't see anything :/
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On February 22 2012 02:50 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards. Feel free to discuss some of those methods while also factoring in that Zergs didn't do the same strategies back then.
Also add in the nerfs to Reapers, Hellions and Tanks, and buffs to Infestors, Ultras, and BL (PDD Stealth nerf...) that happened in that time period as well.
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On February 22 2012 02:39 stormchaser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:07 s3rp wrote:On February 22 2012 02:00 stormchaser wrote:On February 22 2012 01:57 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 01:54 stormchaser wrote:On February 22 2012 01:47 Shiori wrote:
Kinda stunned that Blizzard went ahead and made such ridiculous changes even though the vast majority of the community was against them.
More like vocal minority. I can't think of a pro that thought this was a bad patch other than a few terrans (and mostly for purposes outside of zvt), in fact I think most of the community is very happy about it. Just watch TvZ lategame from now on. You cannot deal with Bl/Infestor and Ultra/Ling remax without Snipe. It's just not possible. And again, I don't see many Protoss players celebrating the Phoenix buff, since it totally misses the actual problem. The only thing people are happy about is the MULE change. Nah terrans haven't played around with ravens yet, and you act like ghosts don't exist now, they're still extremely good. I have they suck with anything but Mech and when you Mech you're so immobile that it's basically impossible to hold more then 3 bases on the majority of the Maps since the only mobile unit you have is the Helion that does horrible against anything but Lings. And no Ghosts in TvZ will not be good anymore . They're basically the Anti-Infestor which is kinda funny since the Infestor is basically the Anti-Everything. But thats not new Blizzard thinks it's a great idea to force players into building units for 1! purpose alone and make them useless for anything else. That's what ghosts are suppose to be...anti-infestor. Not anti-Every-fucking-unit-zerg-has. Once ghosts snipe infestors, the vikings take care of the broods and snipe strill works well against them too, just shift click the snipes.
Ok and whats you're pure counter units that only surves 1 purpose ? Ah right Zerg doesn't have that right now. Ghost was the only units that did reasonably well against both techs. You don't like that then how about you make it easier for a Terran to see what he has to build before it reaches the freaking ground. And to make matters worse the units you now build mostly suck at killing bases . So it doesn't matter that you just killed an army because its almost impossible to hinder the Zerg from building something else since more then half your army consists of units that you only build as a response.
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On February 22 2012 02:53 ArcticFox wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:50 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards. Feel free to discuss some of those methods while also factoring in that Zergs didn't do the same strategies back then. Also add in the nerfs to Reapers, Hellions and Tanks, and buffs to Infestors, Ultras, and BL (PDD Stealth nerf...) that happened in that time period as well.
Yes, because changes that happened during beta are still relevant now. How about them nerfs to those roaches?
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On February 22 2012 02:56 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:53 ArcticFox wrote:On February 22 2012 02:50 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards. Feel free to discuss some of those methods while also factoring in that Zergs didn't do the same strategies back then. Also add in the nerfs to Reapers, Hellions and Tanks, and buffs to Infestors, Ultras, and BL (PDD Stealth nerf...) that happened in that time period as well. Yes, because changes that happened during beta are still relevant now. How about them nerfs to those roaches?
Strong strawman.
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On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards.
balance aside... is it too much to ask that blizzard fix ghost without making it next to useless? as far as i'm concerned it's not even an option anymore, it's just crap unless zerg go funday monday 100% infestor composition.
i mean seriously...
Patch 1.4.3
Balance Changes:
Terran
- Ghost's Snipe ability changed to deal 25 base damage plus 25 bonus damage to Psionic unit types.
- Ghost unit has been renamed as 'Gimp'.
- Mule is no longer stupid-broken on gold mineral patches.
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On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards.
I remember Darkforce discussing how TvZ was basically a free win against anybody once he reaches the Broodlord/Infestor stage.
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On February 22 2012 02:56 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:53 ArcticFox wrote:On February 22 2012 02:50 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards. Feel free to discuss some of those methods while also factoring in that Zergs didn't do the same strategies back then. Also add in the nerfs to Reapers, Hellions and Tanks, and buffs to Infestors, Ultras, and BL (PDD Stealth nerf...) that happened in that time period as well. Yes, because changes that happened during beta are still relevant now. How about them nerfs to those roaches?
You seem to have hit my point exactly. "Watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it!" is completely irrelevant when the game has changed substantially since then.
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On February 22 2012 02:57 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:56 teamsolid wrote:On February 22 2012 02:53 ArcticFox wrote:On February 22 2012 02:50 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards. Feel free to discuss some of those methods while also factoring in that Zergs didn't do the same strategies back then. Also add in the nerfs to Reapers, Hellions and Tanks, and buffs to Infestors, Ultras, and BL (PDD Stealth nerf...) that happened in that time period as well. Yes, because changes that happened during beta are still relevant now. How about them nerfs to those roaches? Strong strawman.
Nah, it's just how that post emphasizes how over panicky all T's get every time there's a nerf. Yet, GSL is still full of Terrans.
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On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards.
Unfortunately enough, it seems forgetfulness is evenly shared among the races. Maybe Zergs learnt new things too in lategame? What makes you think that things that worked in the past will work now that the game evolved?
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On February 22 2012 02:58 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:57 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:56 teamsolid wrote:On February 22 2012 02:53 ArcticFox wrote:On February 22 2012 02:50 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards. Feel free to discuss some of those methods while also factoring in that Zergs didn't do the same strategies back then. Also add in the nerfs to Reapers, Hellions and Tanks, and buffs to Infestors, Ultras, and BL (PDD Stealth nerf...) that happened in that time period as well. Yes, because changes that happened during beta are still relevant now. How about them nerfs to those roaches? Strong strawman. Nah, it's just how that post emphasizes how over panicky all T's get every time there's a nerf. Yet, GSL is still full of Terrans.
Point being? This patch is by far the biggest concentrated nerf a Terran unit has received in ages. It's going to completely change the lategame focus of the matchup. If you choose not to see this, fine, but stop pretending that Terran is super OP and that Zergs are just getting brutalized or something. They're not. Zerg winrates are fine against Terran, and they've never suggested that such a massive nerf to the Ghost was required.
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On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards.
Dude are you serious? The reason for this was infestors weren't nearly as good as they are now... People used to stick on Muta ling all day, and if they went blords you needed only vikings to counter it..
It was only after the infestor buff that terran winrates dropped and ghosts were used
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On February 22 2012 03:00 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:58 teamsolid wrote:On February 22 2012 02:57 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:56 teamsolid wrote:On February 22 2012 02:53 ArcticFox wrote:On February 22 2012 02:50 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards. Feel free to discuss some of those methods while also factoring in that Zergs didn't do the same strategies back then. Also add in the nerfs to Reapers, Hellions and Tanks, and buffs to Infestors, Ultras, and BL (PDD Stealth nerf...) that happened in that time period as well. Yes, because changes that happened during beta are still relevant now. How about them nerfs to those roaches? Strong strawman. Nah, it's just how that post emphasizes how over panicky all T's get every time there's a nerf. Yet, GSL is still full of Terrans. If you choose not to see this, fine, but stop pretending that Terran is super OP and that Zergs are just getting brutalized or something. They're not. Zerg winrates are fine against Terran, and they've never suggested that such a massive nerf to the Ghost was required.
What ? Coming from the guy who calls my post a strawman.
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EPT
