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On February 22 2012 02:59 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards. Unfortunately enough, it seems forgetfulness is evenly shared among the races. Maybe Zergs learnt new things too in lategame? What makes you think that things that worked in the past will work now that the game evolved?
Zerg lategame has always been broodlord infestor.....there hasn't been any massive zerg lategame innovation. Terrans used to fight it by using thors in combination with vikings, to deal with the corrupters and broodlords. Terrans stopped doing that because it was easier to just go mass ghosts.
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On February 22 2012 03:15 cameler wrote:
Oh thank goodness parental controls are IN, I can be my own parent now!
EDIT: WHAT THE HELL BLIZZ, DX FILE MISSING? REINSTALL? PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
EDIT: NVM, it works fine now.
EDIT: PROTOSS SHIELDS CHEAPER NOW, wow what is the reasoning behind this?
Protoss shields became cheaper a patch or 2 ago. Reason being it was too expensive. As seen by it being cheaper...
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It’s always been beyond my comprehension why Zerg would rush into battle with 15-20 broodlords knowing that there are 16 ghosts waiting for them. The way to handle this is to slowly get rid of some of your supply and transition back into zerglings and banelings to handle the ghosts. I’ve seen numerous games where this has happened and it works (leenock), but everyone focuses on the Nestea game where he marched his broodlords right into battle where there were 16 ghosts and vikings waiting for him and then get perplexed as to why he lost? Seriously? Did we watch the same game? Vikings hard counter and ghosts soft counter… Did you really think he was going to win after that?
Don’t get me wrong Snipe is powerful and maybe it deserves to be nerfed, but down to 25? 35 I can see, but 25 is too big of a jump.
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On February 22 2012 03:14 japi wrote:
My client weirdly downloaded 1.4.2 again (???) and now battle.net is down. What gives?
You downloaded the newest version of the game which is 1.4.3, only the patch notes arent updated yet.
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On February 22 2012 03:21 goswser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:59 TheDwf wrote:On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards. Unfortunately enough, it seems forgetfulness is evenly shared among the races. Maybe Zergs learnt new things too in lategame? What makes you think that things that worked in the past will work now that the game evolved? Zerg lategame has always been broodlord infestor.....there hasn't been any massive zerg lategame innovation. Terrans used to fight it by using thors in combination with vikings, to deal with the corrupters and broodlords. Terrans stopped doing that because it was easier to just go mass ghosts.
Just like Zerg use to think in ZvT that you could only go muta,ling,bane. Like they use to think ZvP where they have to go roach,hydra,corruptor. The game evolves, people learn things - don't just nerf them. Zerg is just good at crying to Blizzard.
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I am hyper disappointed with Blizzard's lack of foresight.
They need to allow a PTR or make no changes whatsoever. To be honest, their internal testing seems pretty crappy considering how ridiculously OP terran was when the game was released (LOL 5 rax reaper poweroverwhelming). How can we trust that they are accurately testing all of these changes when they released a game with one race that was ridiculously OP in the first place?
L2P blizzard
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okay if ghosts die, the infestors are still really good... but what happens now if ghosts snipe all 15 of the zerg's infestors then zerg decides to not remake infestors?
terran have >10 pretentious marines that are as cost effective as novelty paperweights? 
i think ghost should be compensated with a flying mode, akin to the viking ground mode. :D
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On February 22 2012 02:04 magnaflow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:00 stormchaser wrote:On February 22 2012 01:57 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 01:54 stormchaser wrote:On February 22 2012 01:47 Shiori wrote:
Kinda stunned that Blizzard went ahead and made such ridiculous changes even though the vast majority of the community was against them.
More like vocal minority. I can't think of a pro that thought this was a bad patch other than a few terrans (and mostly for purposes outside of zvt), in fact I think most of the community is very happy about it. Just watch TvZ lategame from now on. You cannot deal with Bl/Infestor and Ultra/Ling remax without Snipe. It's just not possible. And again, I don't see many Protoss players celebrating the Phoenix buff, since it totally misses the actual problem. The only thing people are happy about is the MULE change. Nah terrans haven't played around with ravens yet, and you act like ghosts don't exist now, they're still extremely good. Now terrans will start to use ravens. Then they will be nerfed next.
maybe eventually terran will exhaust all their OP units and we can get a balanced game (I kid)
I think the ghost change is a decent one, but I would have done the following:
50 vs psionic
40 vs normal
30 vs massive
and seen how it affected the game, possibly moving to 50/35/25 if it was still too powerful (which i doubt)
I really hope this phoenix change does what they want so they don't have to introduce the tempest. In all the testing I've seen of the unit in the state it was at blizzcon, 1-2 entirely nullified muta play, while at the same time countering corrupters decently well too. in addition they are a mind numbingly boring unit, essentially a flying colossus.
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On February 22 2012 03:21 goswser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:59 TheDwf wrote:On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards. Unfortunately enough, it seems forgetfulness is evenly shared among the races. Maybe Zergs learnt new things too in lategame? What makes you think that things that worked in the past will work now that the game evolved? Zerg lategame has always been broodlord infestor.....there hasn't been any massive zerg lategame innovation. Terrans used to fight it by using thors in combination with vikings, to deal with the corrupters and broodlords. Terrans stopped doing that because it was easier to just go mass ghosts.
Yes, that's exactly why every terran was desperately looking for a sollution. During that time David Kim himself said that they were looking to the broodlord + infestor combination, since "it looked a little too strong". Then terran found out about ghost and it became quiet at blizzard's side.
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I just updated and the notes were for 1.4.2 really weird. O_o
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Russian Federation205 Posts
zergs shouldn't have weaklier army than terran in late , because its gonna be impossible to win in deep macro . Like protoss cant win 20 ghost + 10 vikings 3-0 + marinas maradur 3-3 - its imbalanced too . Yes , the aim to get ultimate limit/grades and take perfect fight is hard for terran , but it's possible , the time when protoss with perfect micro can do 0 vs terran with good micro 200/200 . The zerg can death just to 5-6 tanks + plaenatarys + 50 ghosts + 20 marinas + 10 vikings isnt that fair too .
Now terran get nerfed against zerg , Soon ( i promisse ) they will get nerfed against protoss ) . learn to play terrans ? no , they good players . But learn to lose without any stable reason like other races do - YES , its game , robots from kroea shouldnt have 0 lose vs zerg/protoss .
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On February 22 2012 03:34 gogatorsfoster wrote:
I just updated and the notes were for 1.4.2 really weird. O_o
Same thing happened to me except my notes were for 1.4.1 and now
I can't log in, only offline mode.
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On February 22 2012 03:30 shizna wrote:okay if ghosts die, the infestors are still really good... but what happens now if ghosts snipe all 15 of the zerg's infestors then zerg decides to not remake infestors? terran have >10 pretentious marines that are as cost effective as novelty paperweights? i think ghost should be compensated with a flying mode, akin to the viking ground mode. :D
i would say those were cost-effective ghosts if they killed all of his infestors and lived.....
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On February 22 2012 03:05 Trealador wrote:
Anyone who says terran is the best race, hasn't been watching GSL for months.
Seriously, 15 out of 32 code S players playing terran is totally indicative that terran is not the best race.
No, I don't think terran is OP - but pointing to the GSL as being indicative that terran is definitively NOT the best race... really?
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On February 22 2012 03:21 goswser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:59 TheDwf wrote:On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards. Unfortunately enough, it seems forgetfulness is evenly shared among the races. Maybe Zergs learnt new things too in lategame? What makes you think that things that worked in the past will work now that the game evolved? Zerg lategame has always been broodlord infestor.....there hasn't been any massive zerg lategame innovation. Terrans used to fight it by using thors in combination with vikings, to deal with the corrupters and broodlords. Terrans stopped doing that because it was easier to just go mass ghosts.
This was abandoned not only because of the Ghosts but also because Thors really suck against Non-Light Air and their AI will get confused by Broodlings which makes them shimmy around like Antoine Walker in his Heat days...
![[image loading]](http://blogs.thescore.com.s3.amazonaws.com/tbj/files/2010/08/antoine-tbj01.gif)
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Think about this guys:
Blizzard's internal balance team thought terran was fine when the game came out. 5 rax reaper? Legit. No problems. Zerg can't 15 hatch and must pool first even versus terran? Legit. No problems.
Do you really trust them to be making these changes and not putting them on a PTR?
Hate to burst everyone's bubble, but blizzard might not know what they're doing.
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On February 22 2012 03:41 Jouissance wrote:
Think about this guys:
Blizzard's internal balance team thought terran was fine when the game came out. 5 rax reaper? Legit. No problems. Zerg can't 15 hatch and must pool first even versus terran? Legit. No problems.
Do you really trust them to be making these changes and not putting them on a PTR?
Hate to burst everyone's bubble, but blizzard might not know what they're doing.
That was kinds figured out when they had to make a decision to either buff carrier or mothership. Guess which one they chose. Not only that the buff was just to to increase acceleration speed a little... which is hardly noticiable.
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On February 22 2012 03:15 cameler wrote:
Oh thank goodness parental controls are IN, I can be my own parent now!
EDIT: WHAT THE HELL BLIZZ, DX FILE MISSING? REINSTALL? PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
EDIT: NVM, it works fine now.
EDIT: PROTOSS SHIELDS CHEAPER NOW, wow what is the reasoning behind this?
I think if you type in all caps, then you accidentally re-install the previous patch.
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On February 22 2012 03:05 Trealador wrote:
Anyone who says terran is the best race, hasn't been watching GSL for months.
It's not the race, terran wins a lot because of it's players
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EPT
