On February 11 2012 02:08 Shockk wrote: Even though they should just flat out remove gold bases, the change could work.
But the Snipe change is ... debatable, at best. Way to force Terrans into Vikings / Marauders and make them more susceptible to lategame Z tech switches.
It's better than Terran only making Ghosts and sniping both Ultras and BLs. But now you have to make more than one unit so it's a problem.
On February 11 2012 02:16 kevinmon wrote: Sounds good! As a Protoss player though, I feel snipe is now too powerful versus templar which are weak to begin with, while the other units it is more effective against require much less investment in research to create. Too easy of a counter compared to Terran versus the other races.
LOL I'm just laughing out loud right now. You realize that if you get 1-2 storms out on a terran bio army it's pretty much dead? "I feel snipe is now too powerful versus templar which are weak to begin with".
Snipe is basically our only tool to deal with HT's, and if we let just one HT with energy pass through we die most times. And god forbid we let two or even three be in the fight with energy, we're even more dead.
On February 11 2012 02:09 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: Don't like the snipe change...vikings are pretty easily countered with corrupter/infestor, and weaker snipes are going to make BLs an even scarier pain to deal with...
But you'll be able to snipe the infestors more easily.
On February 11 2012 02:20 Shikyo wrote: Snipe now kills Infestors in 3 hits instead of 4. Same for Queen.
I think that the changes are pretty good overall, though it feels silly to nerf TvZ when the MU wasn't really broken. Would have liked to see a T buff for some unit, like Viking movespeed or something to make up for that.
The whole matchup isn't broken but I think this is done to make late-game Z more viable. A lot of zergs just die if they transition to hive tech and they die if they don't. This will give them a better ability to stay alive after that transition.
And building Ultras might not cause an auto-loss...
On February 11 2012 02:09 zende wrote: now TvZ will be exactly like TvP. we'll have to scan every 30 seconds to see if a tech switch is up to be able to react in time. wooooooooo!
Yeah, I think at least making ghosts do 30 or 35 damage with +20 or +15 vs psionic would be fine. :\
On February 11 2012 02:18 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote: Idra said ghosts were broken a couple of months ago. Everyone calls Idra a whiner because of it. Months later, the ghosts two main abilities are nerfed. Anyways, this is the best patch ever. Blizzard is FINALLY starting to listen to the community. This has me excited for the expansion and future balance changes.
You're right IdrA was the ONLY one complaining about ghosts
Did i say he was the ONLY one? No, I said he complained and everyone called him a whiner.
IdrA was the first. he started complaining at a time where Terrans didnt know how to build a second CC ...
Make snipe do less vs ultras so you need marauders and ghosts replace vikings. They're both made out of the tech lab, it's not as drastic as vikings and marauders.
On February 11 2012 02:17 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Phoenix's range will be upgraded to 6 after researching the fleet beacon upgrade... what is the Phoenix's starting range? And what is the Mutalisk's range?
4 and 3, it will be awesome depending on how much upgrade costs. I mean P still needs like 1/2 as many Phoenix to stop mutas killing probe line but now Phoenix wont die to mutas.
Thank you
Maybe it'll even be more successful as a deterrent... as in, the Zerg won't continue to mass muta in a game if he sees the Protoss has the upgrade. So it could be useful to both kill the mutalisks and to convince the Zerg to stop producing mutas altogether ^^
That would be awesome, or at least be like TvZ in BW where you make a rd of mutas to harass but eventually switch. I generally don't like people making mutas then just massing and massing until eventually throwing in 3-4 infestors.
That's what I'm thinking as well. We might see less of "muta-ling all game long" and more of "muta-ling as one step in a more complex strategy". Evolution, complete
Oh wow, adresses snipe, making mass muta slightly less annoying to deal with ( although really, getting a fleetbeacon isn't really anything reactive at all ) and bringing back APM.
A pretty awesome patch and with the addition of community maps this seems like the perfect stage for neglecting battle.net :D ( I tried hard to find something bad, so I just had to revert to the de facto rant of battlenet 0.2 )
On February 11 2012 02:25 jmack wrote: All of these look like good changes.
Especially CPM ( how did that take this long? ) thank you for this one blizzard.
Terrans I know you might be mad but you have to admit Ghost v Z were pretty good.
Does any one wonder why they made it a range upgrade at the beacon instead of just a straight buff? Having to get the beacon /whine.
Yeah and you gotta admit that broodlord/corrupter/infestor vs t is pretty good, even if they have ghosts. Terran already has to stop microing jus about everything to even pull snipes off and i cant even count how many times i just got rolled anyways with 10+ ghosts. Sorry Im not IMMVP n shit.
On February 11 2012 02:09 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: Don't like the snipe change...vikings are pretty easily countered with corrupter/infestor, and weaker snipes are going to make BLs an even scarier pain to deal with...
But you'll be able to snipe the infestors more easily.
Plus, brood lords should be scary...
They are late-game Z tech and cost a lot to build. They shouldn't just die in a few seconds to a bunch of snipes.
On February 11 2012 02:09 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: Don't like the snipe change...vikings are pretty easily countered with corrupter/infestor, and weaker snipes are going to make BLs an even scarier pain to deal with...
But you'll be able to snipe the infestors more easily.
On February 11 2012 02:25 blamekilly wrote: Cool more terran nerfs every patch.... thanks for nothing. How about working on TvP balance?
Protoss screams muta 2 months and blizzard rushes to fix the problem in a minute..Terrans point serious issues iwth lategame TvP balance for months and the issue is not even briefly discussed...i am at a loss.I will keep playing the game ofc and i will let the pro players analyse the effects of this patch but i feel that terrans are really getting overnerfed
On February 11 2012 02:24 Stiluz wrote: Yey, a good balance patch! Ghosts still viable lategame vs Zerg, but does not destroy both BL and Ultras as fast as before. Protoss gets a bit more efficient for dealing with Mutas. Everybody's happy now :D
I agree. Ghosts will still be far from useless. EMP is still very important, despite the nerf it got. Snipe will still be vital, despite the nerf it's getting now too.
I just think that now, Terran will need to be a bit more selective on what to snipe in an army, instead of "fuck it, everything!" ^^
It's basically the same thing that happened with Infestors and High Templar, Blizz buffed them>people massed them for everything>blizzard nerfs them>people still use them just more selectively.
Toss lost KA and Zerg lost Neural, at least Ghosts still got all their limbs in tact after getting hit with the nerf bat.
I like everything but the snipe change. I have no problem with snipe being nerfed - I'm just not a fan of doing it this way. My favorite would be to lower the max energy so that you'd need to mass a lot more of them to use them against brood/ultras. This seems overly strong, making them completely useless in late game TvZ, and it also severely hurts the other times you could actually use it against other units, which was always much more fun. Making it just an anti-caster spell just makes it overlap too much with EMP.
On February 11 2012 02:09 zende wrote: now TvZ will be exactly like TvP. we'll have to scan every 30 seconds to see if a tech switch is up to be able to react in time. wooooooooo!
So to win, you'll need to scout instead of blindly making units, imagine that
On February 11 2012 02:18 J.E.G. wrote: Phoenix range is a good idea, but from the fleetbeacon????
Fleatbeacon is already 300/200, so this will pretty much be the most expensive range upgrade in the game, before you even factor the actual cost of the upgrade
Maybe more carrier play will come from this though, which would be cool.
So what ? you still cry , i think if you micro good with phenix and dont gonna lose them i early game when you gonna see that zerg is going mutas , you can counter an infinity amount of mutas just with 15 phenix ? , dont even need storm or blink. Justt attack at zerg main with stalkers and leave phenix at base vs counter attack. And toss still wanna more blehh
Very glad to see snipe nerm , ghoust own all zerg units at late game BL ultras ... now late game vs terran as zerg wil be good
EPT
