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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 11 2012 03:04 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 03:00 Iron_ wrote:
Did anyone else think it was funny that he said snipe was "Slightly" (in italics even), then proceeded to tell us he completely cut off the ghosts balls by chopping snipe in HALF? LOL.
Anyway, as far as listening to the community, some of that is here for sure. But I see more threads on T getting hammered late game by P than anything else, and that is never addressed. Now with this change, it will be T getting hammered late game by both P and Z. I guess it is time to get really proficient with cheese and 2 base all in timings. Seems like it´s time for you to adept... on EU every second T does what you described. I like the patch overall, how the snipe will pan out - let´s wait and see. Maybe it´s too much of a nerf vs Z, yet vs P it´s more like a buff to be honest. Also that they addressed the phoenix muta situation - big props Blizz & David Kim =)
Lol so the game is balanced because Terrans can sometimes win if we do a 2base all-in but will lose if we don't. Sounds like a great designed RTS we have on our hands.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On February 11 2012 03:03 bubl100500 wrote:
Terrans are screwed! It's already hard lategame TvP, and now it will be hard in TvZ too. QQ gonna be crazy!
Because it should be easy instead? Are you complaining its a challenge now to win?
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I feel bad for terrans, snipe was OP in a way but without it what do they do? they dont really have end game units.
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johan lucchesi @QuanticNaNi
you could add 10 more range on phoenix you still need a god damn fleet beacon to make it and by that time zerg has 6 bases with infestors
exactly my thoughts
he is so right
this change doesnt do sht
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Vatican City State733 Posts
On February 11 2012 02:59 RyF wrote:
infestot + bl is nearly unstoppable right now. so hard to get enough ghosts and viking thor marine just sux...
bad and unfair nerve. zerg can amove their units while terran has to hit hundreds of snipes to kill 10 broodlords not to even mention the ultralisk while keeping ghosts out of range of fungle...
this will turn out so bad for us terrans.
ps: nice apm change though
Where does this idea that Z only amoves come from? Yes, its a different type of micro setting up flanks, guiding banes, and hitting fungals, but that doesn't mean that it's easy
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On February 11 2012 03:03 bubl100500 wrote:
Terrans are screwed! It's already hard lategame TvP, and now it will be hard in TvZ too. QQ gonna be crazy!
Dude this barely effects tvp late game. Snipe still 2 shots a templar. The only difference is that snipe only does 25 damage to zealots in tvp. And mules on a gold isn't necessary to do.
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When was the last time terran had a buff? TTQQ
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On February 11 2012 03:02 See.Blue wrote:
For so long T has been so dominant, and yet they're so vocal over such a small change. I don't get it...
As this Terran "dominance" only exists at the highest tier of pro play.
I'm watching IEM right now and SuperNova was having to multitask like two/three drops and his main army to beat Slivko who was just 1a'ing his army around after everything. If you haven''t got grandmaster APM then lategame TvP fights are a nightmare, as is any engagement with zerg once they have baneling speed.
Getting back to "dominance"... it doesn't really exist any more, Jjakji and MVP have won four GSLs combined and both got eliminated in the ro16. The nerfs to Terran from the last four/five patches are getting really annoying to deal with so a double Terran nerf and a Protoss buff is just, ARRARGH.
Blizzard posted a feedback to community post a while back where the points where snipe, MULEs, fungal, mutas and Terrans not wanting to be nerfed any more.
Well I guess 3/5 isn't bad...
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David Kim simply doesn't understand that if the Z is allowing Terran to take a split map position than the Z is doing something seriously wrong. Ghosts are expensive as shit, and for them to have such a significantly weakened snipe only means that Blord/Infestor is going to be that much better.
It's not even like everyone could do it, you had a handful of pro players who were capable of utilizing Ghosts well enough to counter Blord/Infestor.
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I don't get why Blizzard is trying so hard to make terran weak lategame. Like isn't it Terran that can max out the slowest, has the weakest production and has serious issues with mobility? WTF is going on here..
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On February 11 2012 03:02 See.Blue wrote:
For so long T has been so dominant, and yet they're so vocal over such a small change. I don't get it...
This change is not small. Nerfing Snipe by 20 damage is huge. I can understand 5 damage nerf, or even 10, but the main reason Terran has a chance in the late-game is because of Snipe. The thing is, Zerg can max out on infestor/corruptor/broodlord, then after Terran finally kills of that army with viking/ghost, he remaxes on something ground based, like zergling/baneling or ultra/ling and crushes the Terran because he had to spend all his $$$ on Vikings because Snipe doesn't work against broodlords.
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On February 11 2012 03:03 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 03:01 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Good changes, i had like i winrare of ~5% against mutas
Does snip work on psyonic units now?
That means you can snipe sentrys and archons etc?
That would be a big change.
Snipe only works against light units, sentrys are like mechanical or armoured or some shit and archons are massive anyways, this is the damage they do vs high templar in the case of protoss.
Snipe works on BIOLOGICAL units, not just light units. Biological includes every single Zerg unit.
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Interesting changes. Golds still make for terrible maps for reasons besides mules. With the success of non-gold maps I don't know why the tournament scene would reintegrate them.
Mutas are still just dumb in their snowball nature. Would have rather seen a small splash upgrade instead. FB requirement makes me wonder about its viability but I suppose you're heading there anyway. It's a hard problem to solve admittedly. a 20-30 ball mutapack on one key is just dumb to watch, but you don't want to go overboard and kill off the unit diversity in a matchup.
On February 11 2012 03:06 robih wrote:
johan lucchesi @QuanticNaNi
you could add 10 more range on phoenix you still need a god damn fleet beacon to make it and by that time zerg has 6 bases with infestors
19 shots to kill an ultra.
Damn.
edit: Fortunately after the last time they tweaked with Phoenixes the zerg community believed what they wanted to believe and stopped using them. Maybe that will happen again.
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On February 11 2012 02:54 Sated wrote:
Blizzard: "Hey, Protoss, you can counter Mutalisks now! All you need to do is build a Stargate and a Fleet Beacon reactively! Shouldn't be a problem, right?"
GG Blizzard, GG.
Yeah I think the upgrade being on Fleet Beacon is a little too far away, remember FB costs 300/200 and the actual Phoenix upgrade will probably be like 100 gas, it's gonna be pretty hard to get to that before Mutas ruin your day. I think putting it on Stargate would be better or maybe even Twilight Council?
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On February 11 2012 03:07 venage wrote:
When was the last time terran had a buff? TTQQ
At start, we used to have salvageable bunkers, but even those got nerfed.
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The phoenix change is actually insanely good, phoenix already sooo good vs mutalisks, but now phoenixes will actually just be really lame vs mutas, like really insanely good.
However, the fact that you need to get up fleet beacon to get the upgrade, really makes it hard. But, this really stops the Zerg from massing mutas in the late game, like I saw Dimaga recently in tourn having 55 mutas, get 10 phoenixes and proper micro and they are countered 
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On February 11 2012 03:05 SolidMoose wrote:
LOL what a fucking joke. 19 snipes to kill an ultralisk? That's almost 3 and half ghosts with 3 having full energy. This would have made sense with a fungal nerf but...wow. I don't even know what to say. Every terran knows it's impossible to stop BL with vikings alone. They just broke lategame TvZ.
Terrans can kill ultralisks without ghosts at all. Also bear in mind the scroll wheel attack that terrans can use now, making chain snipes easier.
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On February 11 2012 03:06 robih wrote:
johan lucchesi @QuanticNaNi
you could add 10 more range on phoenix you still need a god damn fleet beacon to make it and by that time zerg has 6 bases with infestors
exactly my thoughts
he is so right
this change doesnt do sht
He is overreacting, that is definitely not the case for majority of games. Mutalisk opening usually revolves around Protoss turtling on 3 base or trying to maintain 3 base while Zerg can either mass Muta or tech to Tier3 units. Instead of just relying on Blink + Storm counter and playing turtly, Protoss have the option now to immediately just go Range Pheonix and dismantle the play.
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On February 11 2012 02:57 awesomoecalypse wrote:But range 6 vs. Range 3 is a huge gap. Now, there is significant leeway in kiting Mutas where Phoenixes can get hits in, but Mutas can't return fire. A skilled Protoss should be able to quite easily kite around Mutas without taking any damage at all.
I though of this too, however the apm/attention required to kite the mutalisks will definately kill their macro, unless protoss randomly decides gateway is better than warpgate and que's units; But that won't happen.
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EPT
