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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 11 2012 02:57 awesomoecalypse wrote:Phoenixes are faster than Mutas and can shoot while moving. In theory, they can kite them indefinitely without taking a single hit in return. The problem is that Phoenix range of 4 vs Muta range of 3 is a very narrow gap, and at the high speeds these units move at, it is pretty much guaranteed that Toss will slip up and Phoenixes will get in range of Muta fire. Thats not an issue in small numbers, but because Mutas have quasi-splash, and Phoenixes stack a bit, a huge Mutas ball will insta-decimate Phoenixes with even the slightest slip-up. But range 6 vs. Range 3 is a huge gap. Now, there is significant leeway in kiting Mutas where Phoenixes can get hits in, but Mutas can't return fire. A skilled Protoss should be able to quite easily kite around Mutas without taking any damage at all. In theory, this makes range-upgraded Phoenixes a near-perfect counter to mass muta, provided the Protoss has good micro. Of course, Zerg can mix in Corruptors to counter the Phoenixes, but Muta/Corruptor balls aren't nearly as mobile as puta muta balls, so this allows Protoss to more easily respond. Honestly, this is pretty damn huge, and is gonna really alter the landscape of PvZ.
I think this change was made so Zerg player dont make only Mutas, like Destiny vs mana, for example.
It snowballs out of control easily.
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On February 11 2012 02:53 gogatorsfoster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 02:39 PaterPatriae wrote:On February 11 2012 02:33 JeffGoldblum wrote:On February 11 2012 02:31 archangel967 wrote:On February 11 2012 02:29 JeffGoldblum wrote:
Sometimes I seriously think David Kim was born with birth defects. "We think Infestor Queen Broodlord wasn't strong enough so DURR LETS NERF THE GHOST HEUEHEUEHE" "OH SHIT A COUPLE OF PROTOSSES IN PRO PLAY HAVE HAD ISSUES RECENTLY WITH MUTAS ON MAPS THAT MUTAS ARE A GOOD CHOICE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GO STARGATE oh also phoenixes weren't good enough with their auto micro. So now all tosses will go stargate and no zergs will go spire tech which will lead to tosses blind countering ultras and make the game fucking stupid YAAAY IMA SMART GAME DESIGNER!!" lolumad? Terrans have to change their play-style finally. What a shame. This change will be good for all matchups and should yield some awesome games in the coming months as progamers adjust. Change to what!? Vikings? Inferstor corruptor says hi! what about the new (mass) raven late game O.O HSM is pretty sick. Oh wait terran never discovered the raven  Hsm is strong. But it isnt viable in a high level game. 125 energy, 200 gas per raven and the upgrade for hsm. If your going to mass them and have enough energy for HSM your going to need to get the raven energy which is more gas. So your losing all of this gas that you could have been spending on upgrades, vikings, medivacs, tanks most importantly. Not to mention it means you need another starport if you want to make vikings or medivacs, so that is another 100 gas. Another problem with the mass raven style is that when you run out of energy you are completely useless. So you have 1 huge push that has to put you in a position to win the game or you lose. The time it takes to build up 125 energy again means that you are too susceptible to a counter attack if you don't kill them. Even Idra on inside the game said something along the lines that ravens were not viable but hsm was strong.
pretty convincing points, but i don`t get the gas problem. Terran never has gas problems because only the raven is gas intense. Terrans always have overgas in the late game. Why not turteling and switch to raven.But im not the pro just suggesting some things 
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I think the snipe nerf is a bit too much, just like hellions, why'd they have to nerf them to 50% like that...
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The snipe nerf could be a bit excessive. I am particularly worried about tech switches, but we will see.
The phoenix upgrade could be interesting, but relegating it to the fleet beacon could make for some cheesy/wonky builds.
Still perplexed by the lack of a Raven buff and fungal nerf, not to mention the whole "vortex mechanic is absolutely obscene but we will wait for you to fix us 40$ to change that".
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It's funny how Terran always needs to have the perfect unitcomposition to not die in 200-200 battles. While Toss and Zerg just do anything and are fine, it's up to the Terran to counter. I think it's really time to switch, look forward to 10% T in diam/master...
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Yeah I think I might just play Protoss from now on...
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why doesn't Colossi need to siege?
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On February 11 2012 02:56 SovSov wrote:
So 2 Phoenixes can kill fend off ~60 mutas now?
How does this even make sense? This isn't a damage increase. It's a range increase. 2 phoenixes will still take the exact same amount of time to kill 60 mutas. One mis-micro and the phoenixes still die.
The entire point of the phoenix buff is for later PvZ so Protoss can move out of their base and have something to defend while they push. Not to eliminate muta use.
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why do ghosts have to be the ultimate counter to every caster...emp is already ezpz to land with its huge range, and now snipe deals more damage to casters than before, and their emp already neutralizes all casters. its good that the general damage is lower, but the energy cost should be more than 25 if you can 2 or 3 shot ht/infestors at a greater range than either of those units have, blizzard doesn't seem to understand how range is 90% the deciding factor in who wins in unit-unit matchups. the pheonix thing will be ok so long as the upgrade costs enough. imo +3 range for collossi needs to cost twice as much, since it costs 150/150 for +1 range for hydras, should cost at least 400/400 for +3, especially on a core aoe unit.
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Wow, huge changes. I look forward to them.
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On February 11 2012 03:01 ThaZenith wrote:These seem like highly intelligent changes. Although someone will have to explain the snipe change, i have no idea what psychic damage even means. Even gave people back their classic APM, so nice of them.
How can you say they are intelligent changes if you don't' even understand 1/4 of them?
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For so long T has been so dominant, and yet they're so vocal over such a small change. I don't get it...
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On February 11 2012 03:01 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Good changes, i had like i winrare of ~5% against mutas
Does snip work on psyonic units now?
That means you can snipe sentrys and archons etc?
That would be a big change.
Snipe only works against light units, sentrys are like mechanical or armoured or some shit and archons are massive anyways, this is the damage they do vs high templar in the case of protoss.
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Does the range buff mean they can pick up units from further away too?
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There are people still complaining about how the ghost is still going to be too strong... wut..
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feels like this ghost nerf is too soon. nobodys ghost control is good enpugh yet
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Terrans are screwed! It's already hard lategame TvP, and now it will be hard in TvZ too. QQ gonna be crazy!
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Great changes, but it seems like a sign telling us that HOTS is still a ways away from being released.
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EPT
