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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
People whining about phoenixes gonna be imba now;
Corruptors still beat them right? So all the upgrade means is that mutas have to fly at the same speed as corruptors (or infestors) around the map (and only when phoenix are really nearby). Once the mutas reach a base or a battle they will still be just as effective.
IMO phoenix were fine before this patch, protoss players just needed to learn to use them (see mvpGenius), but at least this should stop the protoss tears, and while it does make mutas weaker in some ways, the toss will be more vulnerable to a tech switch as they have put in a bigger investment.
Also this kind of thing:
If these changes went through, I reckon infestor/corrupter/BL in TvZ will be close to invincible - maybe if fungals didn't affect air units as well as it does against ground (i.e. less damage or doesn't affect air units at all) then it'll be ok then.
Uh, snipe/EMP infestors then? I know it takes skill, but hey - that's starcraft.
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I'm extremly happy with this patch as it will make TvZ lategame such a joke it's not even funny and hopefully it makes Blizzard realize there is something wrong since one race has at it's disposal best economy mechanics, fastest units, can remax instantly and best unit composition in the whole fucking game..
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infestot + bl is nearly unstoppable right now. so hard to get enough ghosts and viking thor marine just sux...
bad and unfair nerve. zerg can amove their units while terran has to hit hundreds of snipes to kill 10 broodlords not to even mention the ultralisk while keeping ghosts out of range of fungle...
this will turn out so bad for us terrans.
ps: nice apm change though
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I like the IDEA of snipe being nerfed, but 25+25psy I think is a bit much. Considering ghosts do 10(+10 light) alread, with sufficient infantry upgrades it'd almost be the same against light units. Then again snipe isn't used very often against light units so... I don't know. As for the muling thing won't have much effect on higher levels probably as golds are already being taken out of maps altogether and fleet beacons are already expensive enough so I don't see the range buff being too big a deal.
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The Ghost change is kind of understandable. I think just increasing the energy cost of Snipe would be the better option. The main problem in TvZ was the range of Snipe and EMP. Infestors have a tough time getting close enough if the Terran is paying attention and targets correctly, and Zerg doesn't have a spell to drain energy. Blizzard could have just avoided most of these problems and kept the Ghost at 100/200, so the Terran can't make tons of them at once unless it's super late game.
I think the Phoenix change is nice, as long as the player using them is well practiced in the art of controlling them. I see it as one of those things where at a high level, they will be really useful. Hopefully the upgrade doesn't cost a lot though, 100/100 would be fine.
EDIT: Feedback is 9 range in Starcraft 2, my bad x_x
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David Kim mentioned problems of mass muta in ZvP and late game chargelot in PvT during Blizzcon.
It is nice to see blizzard taking action on mass muta problem.
But how about late game chargelot problem in PvT?
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Wonder if the phoenix range buff is a incidation that they might have removed that silly Tempest unit for protoss in HoTs, since they will have kinda overlapping rules.. both hard countering mutas. Or maybe this is just a temporary buff untill the expansion..
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So we can snipe infestors, queens, ghosts, and templar for 50 damage. Also, something very significant: Infestors will die to 2 snipe shots now.
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I like how now ghosts REALLY 2 snipe an infestor... ghosts needed 3 due to the instant 1hp regen
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Cool to see the Fleet Beacon getting a buff. I liked that the Fleet Beacon was a cornucopia of upgrades back in BW. Granted, 4/5 of those upgrades were useless, gimmicky stuff for the useless Scout and gimmicky Corsair D-Web tactics, but it was cool to see so many upgrades available back then compared to the rather bare selection found in the SC2 Fleet Beacon. Same thing with the Templar Archives in both games.
I don't think the Phoenix buff is entirely unreasonable. It's still going to require a pretty lengthy and expensive investment to get the range upgrade, which does give Zerg some time to get the proper counters up and running.
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On February 11 2012 02:12 MuteZephyr wrote:
I have a little bit of concern for Terran after this patch...
Stats have shown ZvT being very balanced as of late, not sure why it's being messed with in terms of snipe. Especially since ZvT is in favor of zerg in late game already. Looks like blizz is trying to make terran focus solely on winning in early game vs zerg.
EDIT: Plus, now the ghost has two different anti-caster spells. That's completely pointless, why not just use emp? Easier to hit units plus it does splash.
Yeah, for me the snipe change is absolutely ridiculous. In a match up that already favors Zerg in the late game due to the ability to produce a huge amount of units at the same time, effectively removing the one strong option terran has vs tier 3 zerg will just make terrans want to play late game even less vs zerg. Only vikings just doesn't cut it vs infestor/brood lord/corruptor, they die so easily.
And then people will come and complain why Terrans all in all the time vs z again..........
I'm really baffled and disappointed by that change, seeing how they started the news well with the announcement of community maps being on ladder.
-_-
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On February 11 2012 02:57 MrCash wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 02:50 Liquid`TLO wrote:
Good patch overall, but I think the snipe nerf is a bit too hard. I do not like it when units become less versatile. It is nice if they have several roles. Thank you for saying this, I feel like there is nothing but zergs and protoss on the first infinity pages of this thread.
Nah read again, every real player already said that it's silly.
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On February 11 2012 02:41 Linz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 02:34 dignitas.merz wrote:
^^ I wish people would realize Ghosts are not the problem. It's zerg insisting on making T3 units vs mass ghost, when ghost is an excellent counter to what? T3 units.
Tech switch more zergs, you are the only race of the three who can max out on an entirely different unit composition in the matter of seconds. 3-3 ling/bling vs massghost, m&m and a couple of tanks? It's not even close. I kinda agree, but what should we switch to? It's not like you have 0 tanks in the lategame, and Ghosts do +dmg to Light units...
Ghost/Tank is immobile: No stim marines or drops, so harass the heck out of us! Zergling drops in our main base to kill production and depots. Infested terran harass to kill off SCV's and delay MULE and Gas mining.
This is what happened in + Show Spoiler + on a certain Day9 Daily I forgot, and it worked very, very well. + Show Spoiler + made some critical mistakes, like not re-making his production, and building Thors instead of Vikings, Ghosts, and Tanks, but it was still well played by + Show Spoiler +.
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I disagree with the snipe change. It makes TvZ a much less interesting matchup, where terrans will simple put all their effort into ending the game early instead of trying to play lategame, which isn't easy in the first place and only MVP and MMA manage to pull off at high levels in the first place. T can't maintain a balanced composition to deal with both the BL and the techswitch afterwards, which was the only interesting lategame TvZ dynamic in the first place.
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Did anyone else think it was funny that he said snipe was "Slightly" (in italics even) too powerful, then proceeded to tell us he completely cut off the ghosts balls by chopping snipe in HALF? LOL.
Anyway, as far as listening to the community, some of that is here for sure. But I see more threads on T getting hammered late game by P than anything else, and that is never addressed. Now with this change, it will be T getting hammered late game by both P and Z. I guess it is time to get really proficient with cheese and 2 base all in timings.
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On February 11 2012 02:56 RockIronrod wrote:
Uh, ghosts still two-snipe infestors. Vikings still kill broodlords. Marauders still massacre Ultralisks.
The only difference now is that one unit doesn't do it all, a varied, microed composition still wins. As is Ghosts counter the entirety of Zerg tier 3 alone, which is just silly. Now you use ghosts to support your army by being great anti-spell casters who can still snipe down some Broodlords, rather than your army supporting your Ghosts which drop everything Zerg has in a second.
Tell me you play at least 1-2 games a week please..
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These seem like highly intelligent changes. Although someone will have to explain the snipe change, i have no idea what psychic damage means.
Even gave people back their classic APM, so nice of them. 
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ah i miss the subtlety that blizzard patches once had...
nerfing an ability by almost 50% is definitely WoWcounty, not SC.
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Amazing amazing changes, I can't even explain my happiness for these.
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Good changes, i had like i winrare of ~5% against mutas
Does snip work on psyonic units now?
That means you can snipe sentrys and archons etc?
That would be a big change.
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EPT
