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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 11 2012 02:33 JeffGoldblum wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 02:31 archangel967 wrote:On February 11 2012 02:29 JeffGoldblum wrote:
Sometimes I seriously think David Kim was born with birth defects. "We think Infestor Queen Broodlord wasn't strong enough so DURR LETS NERF THE GHOST HEUEHEUEHE" "OH SHIT A COUPLE OF PROTOSSES IN PRO PLAY HAVE HAD ISSUES RECENTLY WITH MUTAS ON MAPS THAT MUTAS ARE A GOOD CHOICE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GO STARGATE oh also phoenixes weren't good enough with their auto micro. So now all tosses will go stargate and no zergs will go spire tech which will lead to tosses blind countering ultras and make the game fucking stupid YAAAY IMA SMART GAME DESIGNER!!" lolumad? Terrans have to change their play-style finally. What a shame. This change will be good for all matchups and should yield some awesome games in the coming months as progamers adjust. Change to what!? Vikings? Inferstor corruptor says hi!
Seriously find terrans a viable late game composition that doesnt get raped by massive tech switches or i don't know what and believe me we too want to have a big ball of high tech units that doesnt really require micro except for pressing F and we ll be happy to do it.Do you think that mma or mvp or other pro terrans don't go mass battlecruisers because they like to sweat on the keyboard microing their mm ball while microing the ghosts and trying to stay alive from massive amount of damage including their own friendly fire??
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I feel that 1 more small change could make this perfect. Make fungal slow units, not trap them in place.
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On February 11 2012 02:31 antilyon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 02:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2012 02:24 Stiluz wrote:
Yey, a good balance patch! Ghosts still viable lategame vs Zerg, but does not destroy both BL and Ultras as fast as before. Protoss gets a bit more efficient for dealing with Mutas. Everybody's happy now :D I agree. Ghosts will still be far from useless. EMP is still very important, despite the nerf it got. Snipe will still be vital, despite the nerf it's getting now too. I just think that now, Terran will need to be a bit more selective on what to snipe in an army, instead of "fuck it, everything!" ^^ Give me 1 reason to make ghosts instead of vikings against BL now. The only reason to make ghosts in TvZ now is EMP for infestors. And it will be 2 or 4 max.
1. For the possible tech switch, and because it's still not bad against them.
2. Because you can afford to build both ghosts and vikings? I play Protoss, so don't talk to me about spending gas. Heck, Terran is the least gas-dependent race in the game.
3. Because ghosts are still all-around good. Zerg rarely has *only* broodlords. Ghosts are very good against multiple units.
4. So what if you don't build a ghost in a game? That doesn't mean they're useless. If you're assuming that you should be able to build any unit you want and it should be useful against any unit composition your opponent has, you've been spoiled for too long by your race.
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Now I wonder how terran will fight zerg in late game? -_-" Mass Vikings clearly don't work against BL/IF. I am quite sure snipe nerf will be toned down a bit to around 30dmg.
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Expected changes to be honest. But nothing about chargelots in lategame tvp makes me scratch my head.
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As a Zerg, I can say I'm rather happy about these changes, although I don't know how bad of a nerf this will be to Terran. Could be worse than imagined..
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On February 11 2012 02:33 JeffGoldblum wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 02:31 archangel967 wrote:On February 11 2012 02:29 JeffGoldblum wrote:
Sometimes I seriously think David Kim was born with birth defects. "We think Infestor Queen Broodlord wasn't strong enough so DURR LETS NERF THE GHOST HEUEHEUEHE" "OH SHIT A COUPLE OF PROTOSSES IN PRO PLAY HAVE HAD ISSUES RECENTLY WITH MUTAS ON MAPS THAT MUTAS ARE A GOOD CHOICE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GO STARGATE oh also phoenixes weren't good enough with their auto micro. So now all tosses will go stargate and no zergs will go spire tech which will lead to tosses blind countering ultras and make the game fucking stupid YAAAY IMA SMART GAME DESIGNER!!" lolumad? Terrans have to change their play-style finally. What a shame. This change will be good for all matchups and should yield some awesome games in the coming months as progamers adjust. Change to what!? Vikings? Inferstor corruptor says hi!
what about the new (mass) raven late game O.O HSM is pretty sick. Oh wait terran never discovered the raven 
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This is great change. And lol finally they decided that their Blizzard apm was bullshit. Im glad, they listen to feedback.
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On February 11 2012 02:36 Fede wrote:
300/200 fleet beacon plus whatever the phoenix upgrade costs is too damn high for this to be an efective response to mutas.
The change isn't meant to straight up counter mutas. It's meant to give Protoss the ability to build a few phoenixes in response to muta in the mid-to-late game and be able to move away from their base without having all of their gates unpowered and probes killed.
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On February 11 2012 02:34 Shockk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 02:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2012 02:24 Stiluz wrote:
Yey, a good balance patch! Ghosts still viable lategame vs Zerg, but does not destroy both BL and Ultras as fast as before. Protoss gets a bit more efficient for dealing with Mutas. Everybody's happy now :D I agree. Ghosts will still be far from useless. EMP is still very important, despite the nerf it got. Snipe will still be vital, despite the nerf it's getting now too. I just think that now, Terran will need to be a bit more selective on what to snipe in an army, instead of "fuck it, everything!" ^^ Because in the typical lategame scenario, terrans usually have two dozen full energy ghosts in optimal range, far away from banelings or fungals, and ready to snipe each and every unit that happens to move in front of the rifles' sights. We'll have to see how this plays out live. I'm very skeptical that removing both a viable counter to Broodlord / Ultralisk play AND a "safety net" against lategame tech switches will work well. It's not as if Ghosts are free anyway; especially with how much gas is needed in TvZ anyway for all the other fancy stuff neccessary to deal with Z shenanigans. This change will turn the Ghost back into a unit with a very specific role (countering casters) and remove the more general combat flexibility / viability it had before. Which is a general trend in SC2's balancing concept, apparently.
We can't even kill banelings with snipe now.
And 19 shots to kill a Broodlord? There's no scenario where ghosts would be used instead of vikings or marauders, hell, a fully upgraded marauder does 23 damage against a ultralisk and a viking does 20.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
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The snipe change is absolutely ridiculous. If you want to nerf Snipe then fine but nerf the Infestor as well. I honestly have no idea how I'm supposed to engage a ling/infestor/BL ball anymore.
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On February 11 2012 02:37 Torte de Lini wrote:
Is the fleetbeacon idea good at all? It sounds like a great upgrade for Protoss, but isn't the fleet beacon a huge investment?
I don't know, someone tell me.
It is in the early game, but off of two base it should be manageable. I'd say the investment is comparable to going colossi vs. a large zerg ground army.
It could pay off later, though, as having a mothership and extended-range phoenixes could be very good vs. the common broodlord-roach-infestor composition that most zergs go in the late game.
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good patch!
even as a toss player, the snipe nerf is needed. broodlord/infestor is gonna be so hard to stop as terran now, but the ghost nerf was definitely needed. And the phoenix change sounds good too, would be interesting to see it being tested or something like how effective will kiting me at range 6. But i think getting a fleet becon just to give pheonixs +1 range is just too lategame. They'll still get chewed by corrupter so i dont know how useful it'll be
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Sweden164 Posts
I really feel that they overdid the snipe nerf. Ghosts really isn't a counter to ultralisks (300 energy to kill 1 ultralisk), and not a hard-counter to brood lords (they are good against them but not imba).
I feel that 20 damage is too much of a removal. When snipe doesn't even one shot a baneling or a zergling, something is wrong. Will be useless against zealots as well because the normal attack is just as strong as the snipe will be against light units.
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On February 11 2012 02:36 VPCursed wrote:
toss didnt need a buff vs zerg.
Have you looked at the ZvP statistics? x.x Or all the statistics in general?
Terran has a winning percentage against both other races, but ZvP is so skewed in Zerg's favor, that the overall graph of all three races showed that Zerg was actually ahead overall (despite it having a losing ratio against Terran). Zerg is currently raping Protoss.
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On February 11 2012 02:37 Torte de Lini wrote:
Is the fleetbeacon idea good at all? It sounds like a great upgrade for Protoss, but isn't the fleet beacon a huge investment?
I don't know, someone tell me.
It is an investment that can be worth getting in PvZ anyway, as it is always nice to be able to get a late game mothership. Now its even more viable. Definitely expecting to see even more motherships in lategame now.
Also - one of the best sets of patch notes Ive read in a while.
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halving snipe damage, way too big of a nerf.
On February 11 2012 02:40 Thorzain wrote:
I really feel that they overdid the snipe nerf. Ghosts really isn't a counter to ultralisks (300 energy to kill 1 ultralisk), and not a hard-counter to brood lords (they are good against them but not imba).
I feel that 20 damage is too much of a removal. When snipe doesn't even one shot a baneling or a zergling, something is wrong. Will be useless against zealots as well because the normal attack is just as strong as the snipe will be against light units.
spoon terran dropping bombs
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Wow. Seems like a really good patch to me.
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As a Protoss player, i love the phoenix change. Finally perhaps we can break this 10month streak of Zerg dominating Protoss in TLPD?  Altho I'm really confused about the snipe nerf. Do you really want to completely remove the ghost from TvZ again? If you think it's "slightly" too strong like you mentioned, why wouldn't you nerf it to like 40(+10 to Psionic)? Cutting the damage in half is soo overkill. I'm really a fan of the infamous bunker-patches. Instead of going balls to the wall +30sec build time instantly and hope you hit the spot on the first try, take small steps to get a more balanced game. Remember what happened with the infestor? Double the fungal damage, even more to armored. Made it a grossly abusive OP unit. Had to nerf it back down to somewhere inbetween the patches after ruining several tournaments and months of laddergames. I don't even play terran so this isn't about snipe specifically, I just despise this approach to buffing/nerfing you guys have gone with lately.
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EPT
