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On January 31 2012 07:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 07:28 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 31 2012 07:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 31 2012 07:21 Frankon wrote:Stephano was put in a no-win situation.He either forfeit (and get screwed by the tournament official who made up rule on the fly - read the MrBitter response in the orginal thread). He plays the game by alternating 6pools and 12 drone rushes - he would still be screwed by the tournament officials cause: Quoting: ...we have to be an organization that puts the fans first. Given that principle, I came to the decision to penalize Stephano and move him to 4th place,... . I dont think fans would like four 6 pools or drone rushes... So he might have been penalized too. To be honest all tournaments need sound rules. There were no rules posted about this tournament - only the format and map pool. OR!!!! Or... or or or or!!! 1. He either TRIES! OR! 2. He either recognizes ahead of time (responsibly) that joining two tournaments simultaneously might drain his energy and so he might not have the stamina to compete in both at the same time, and makes the mature decision to only play in one. Whoops. OR people could realize that shit like this happens and can't always be seen before ahead of time. Seriously, who here hasn't had appointments on the same day, and then had to give one up because something extended longer than it should have or for whatever other reason? And he did "try". He probably went on several hours longer than he wanted to playing in the semis. Except that's not actually what happened -.-' And he knew well in advance that he was playing in both. If he assumed he was going to lose a tournament, then there would be no point in even playing in it, and just focusing on the other... so your analogy doesn't even make sense. It was a matter of too much greed and not enough stamina.
What? He made it to second. He wanted to go as far as he could, obviously. It's not like he started the tournament and said, "okay, I'm gonna get to the finals and THAT's when I'll stop". There were most likely no assumptions on his part until right before the finals or semis.
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why didnt he play ? even if he thught he couldnt win, 2nd place prize is better than nothing lol
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On January 31 2012 07:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 07:28 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 31 2012 07:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 31 2012 07:21 Frankon wrote:Stephano was put in a no-win situation.He either forfeit (and get screwed by the tournament official who made up rule on the fly - read the MrBitter response in the orginal thread). He plays the game by alternating 6pools and 12 drone rushes - he would still be screwed by the tournament officials cause: Quoting: ...we have to be an organization that puts the fans first. Given that principle, I came to the decision to penalize Stephano and move him to 4th place,... . I dont think fans would like four 6 pools or drone rushes... So he might have been penalized too. To be honest all tournaments need sound rules. There were no rules posted about this tournament - only the format and map pool. OR!!!! Or... or or or or!!! 1. He either TRIES! OR! 2. He either recognizes ahead of time (responsibly) that joining two tournaments simultaneously might drain his energy and so he might not have the stamina to compete in both at the same time, and makes the mature decision to only play in one. Whoops. OR people could realize that shit like this happens and can't always be seen before ahead of time. Seriously, who here hasn't had appointments on the same day, and then had to give one up because something extended longer than it should have or for whatever other reason? And he did "try". He probably went on several hours longer than he wanted to playing in the semis. Except that's not actually what happened -.-' And he knew well in advance that he was playing in both. If he assumed he was going to lose a tournament, then there would be no point in even playing in it, and just focusing on the other... so your analogy doesn't even make sense. It was a matter of too much greed and not enough stamina.
Don't forget winning, he had to actually win a lot of games for this scenario to occur. The community is acting like he should have anticipated being in the finals of both tournaments.... which actually makes sense based on how good he is.
You can't take for granted that he swept through two tournaments... fighting off 4 bunker rushes in a row from Illusion at the end of his 15 hour day.
The mob wants MORE STEPHANO!!! Stephano's only flaw is not giving the community enough Stephano.
NOTE: The news of the day is that Stephano forfeited a tournament... not that Kas won it. Weird huh?
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On January 31 2012 07:35 sickle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 07:24 Ninjahoe wrote:
To everyone comparing this to the naniwa incident, it's VERY diffrent in a key point.
This game actually mattered. Yea. It seems like alot of people are defending Stephano here, but when Naniwa probe rushed he got so much fkn hate, way way more than Stephano in this incident. Naniwa was also punished very harshly (stripped off Code S), even after giving a very sincere apology not only from himself personally but also from his team. And imo, this incident with Stephano was far worse for a few reasons: The game actually mattered, as it was a Bo7 Finals. (Thus he forfeited not one match like Naniwa, but a potential 7). And also that this was a community driven event, with all the money for the tournament earned by volunteer work, it was a tournament by the fans for the fans. This money was on the line, the hard work of the organizers, and Stephano just spat in their face. Naniwa did aswell, but at least in his match the winner would have received nothing at all.
If you think NaNiwa actually wrote that apology then you're fooling yourself.
There are some similarities between this and the NaNiwa incident: both players forfeited games, both players were punished, and now it's time for both players and their fans to move along. NaNiwa's game was on a bigger stage in a match that was more anticipated; it's his decision to probe rush, but he has to be ready to accept consequences.
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On January 31 2012 07:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 07:21 Frankon wrote:Stephano was put in a no-win situation.He either forfeit (and get screwed by the tournament official who made up rule on the fly - read the MrBitter response in the orginal thread). He plays the game by alternating 6pools and 12 drone rushes - he would still be screwed by the tournament officials cause: Quoting: ...we have to be an organization that puts the fans first. Given that principle, I came to the decision to penalize Stephano and move him to 4th place,... . I dont think fans would like four 6 pools or drone rushes... So he might have been penalized too. To be honest all tournaments need sound rules. There were no rules posted about this tournament - only the format and map pool. OR!!!! Or... or or or or!!! 1. He either TRIES! OR! 2. He either recognizes ahead of time (responsibly) that joining two tournaments simultaneously might drain his energy and so he might not have the stamina to compete in both at the same time, and makes the mature decision to only play in one. Whoops.
1. He didn't forfeit because he was able to play and just wasn't in the mood. He was just k.o. 2:30 AM and a long finals? He couldn't do it.
2. Yeah, next time he should know in advance how far he is progressing and how long the tournaments go....
I mean: It's variable...he has no idea and nobody else can say. It's not timed like football.
and an bonus point 3) In no other sport would an athlete get a problem if he says he isn't able physically to attend to the match. He wasn't payed to show up. He can forfeit whenever he likes without a reason.
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On January 31 2012 07:33 vZNuKE wrote:
Having to play at 2:30AM his time is a joke... the guy has probably been practicing for well over 12 hours before that... these players need their rest. Shame on ONOG not pushing it back one day... why did it matter?
are you serious. Literally thousands of people where part of this and he knew what time the tourney was happening before he signed up.
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United States5162 Posts
On January 31 2012 07:33 vZNuKE wrote:
Having to play at 2:30AM his time is a joke... the guy has probably been practicing for well over 12 hours before that... these players need their rest. Shame on ONOG not pushing it back one day... why did it matter?
This needs to be stated for a lot of people.
HE PUT HIMSELF IN THE SITUATION BY PLAYING TWO TOURNAMENTS AT ONCE.
If he had not done this to himself, and was too tired because of whatever other reason, instead of being busy delaying one tournament so he could win another, people would be more sympathetic. It's the fact that he caused the problem in the first place that caused most of the drama.
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On January 31 2012 07:29 Zairair wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 07:27 Tobberoth wrote:On January 31 2012 07:26 Zairair wrote:On January 31 2012 07:26 Tobberoth wrote:On January 31 2012 07:23 Zairair wrote:On January 31 2012 07:23 Tobberoth wrote:On January 31 2012 07:21 Zairair wrote:
Rick Perry forfeited his Republican Nomination because he was losing (as Stephano was already at a disadvantage and was losing because he was tired). Should Rick Perry be kicked out of Texas Governor because he was unprofessional (punishing Stephano and giving him 4th place when he earned 2nd place)? Rick Perry gave up and gets nothing. In the same manner, it makes perfect sense that if you forfeit a tournament, you forfeit it and get nothing. Gets nothing is not the same as "loses what he earned". Of course he loses what he earned since he didn't play the finals, so he didn't earn it, he forfeited. It's like writing a report for school and demand some of the points because you wrote a few pages before you gave up. He didn't play through to the end, I see no reason for the tournament to respect his earlier wins when he can't respect that they want a proper final. But Rick Perry did not lose anything that he earned. So why can't you boot him out of Texas? Because he didn't earn anything as part of the Republican nomination? Your analogy is horrible. So why are you guys such bad manner to Stephano? You guys are asking him to be burned at the stake and be labeled as unprofessional for his whole career? Is that justified?
Stephano is the very definition of unprofessional in Esports. He lied to his team and to Col to get a raise from both teams. He isn't investing in Starcraft, instead he is going to quit playing this year to go back to school. He forfeits a finals despite the organizers hard work of putting the event together. Tell me now, is there anyone on the scene that is less professional than this?
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Why is this even a big deal? Happend so often in the past and nobody cared.
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On January 31 2012 07:35 Zairair wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 07:32 dAPhREAk wrote:On January 31 2012 07:27 1Eris1 wrote:
That Rick Perry analogy is ridiculous. Taking away his governership would be akin to ONOG taking Stephano's prize money from IPL.
Do you guys honestly think before you formulate your arguements? seriously. wtf is wrong with people..... Take away all his endorsements and campaign funds then and give them to his opponent or Obama... Same thing. Fill in the boxes jeez. I'm no politician.
give it up dude. your comparison is really lame.
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I find it weird that people are so behind Stephano when they were so against Naniwa probe rushing. I mean, Nani at least played his game, Stephano didn't even do that. The community just latches onto certain players I guess.
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There definitely needs to be some accepted standards regarding forfeiture. The way I see it, forfeiture should mean forfeiting the tournament and not specific matches. That will make it impossible for someone to make it to the semifinals and decide they are satisfied with 4th place money or whatever and quit, which is extremely unsatisfying. To claim any prize money you should have to play all your scheduled matches or forfeit the tournament. There can be provisions for extenuating circumstances, for example in the case of an emergency.
Under this system, the actions of ONOG makes perfect sense and is even a little generous. He didn't earn second place money or 4th place money; he made it to the finals and then forfeited the tournament and all claims to prize money.
I don't think stephano should be punished in any special way, but that is how all such matters should be dealt with. I'm afraid tournament organizers will be wary of inviting him in the future, I hope thats not the case and that this doesn't happen again.
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On January 31 2012 07:12 Dandy_Moustachu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 06:53 Chill wrote:
I think this needs to be addressed by tournament organizers in the future. Major tournaments should make it clear that forfeit matches will incur predetermined penalties. Then everyone is completely aware of the pros and cons. Penalties for forfeiting ? Sound silly to me. If a player forfeit because he is too tired he deserve to be punish ? And if a player forfeit because of his carpal tunnel syndrome and it's too painful to play ? does he deserve a penalties too ? So who gonna decide which reason deserve a penalties and which doesn't ? Being tired isn't a good reason enough ? Stephano should have 6 pool or drone rush 4 games in a raw ? (and i was holding with naniwa when is drama occured) Any player should be able to forfeit any match : a player who forfeit is already punish since he give up the opportunities to going further in the tournament. And since Team Liquid seems to like drama these (what's the point of this community news if it is'nt for feeding the drama ?) let's add some more. Why ONOG is upset about a forfeit ? Because the poor fan could miss a game or because less stephano means less viewers, and time of casting then less money from the ads ? But since I'm french, I'm obviously Stephano biased and I'll cowardly retreat because it's the only thing we do well -_-. (Sorry for my bad english)
He should get a penalty for forfeiting because this event was sponsored, funded, and run FOR the barcrafts in the US. Depriving the tournament of it's finals is like missing the end of the movie.
In THIS case, in THIS tournament, it deserves a penalty, but this, as Chill said, should have been included in the rules previously. A good set of rules is what most tournament lack, sadly, especially the small tournaments, since they really don't get a lot of attention/time put into them. It's been a problem for more than 10 years, it's quite sad.
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France280 Posts
On January 31 2012 07:35 sickle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 07:24 Ninjahoe wrote:
To everyone comparing this to the naniwa incident, it's VERY diffrent in a key point.
This game actually mattered. Yea. It seems like alot of people are defending Stephano here, but when Naniwa probe rushed he got so much fkn hate, way way more than Stephano in this incident. Naniwa was also punished very harshly (stripped off Code S), even after giving a very sincere apology not only from himself personally but also from his team. And imo, this incident with Stephano was far worse for a few reasons: The game actually mattered, as it was a Bo7 Finals. (Thus he forfeited not one match like Naniwa, but a potential 7). And also that this was a community driven event, with all the money for the tournament earned by volunteer work, it was a tournament by the fans for the fans. This money was on the line, the hard work of the organizers, and Stephano just spat in their face. Naniwa did aswell, but at least in his match the winner would have received nothing at all.
Ahah you wont get any bullshit PR apologies from Millenium. Team manager does not really care about TL showroom
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On January 31 2012 07:34 The Final Boss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 07:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 31 2012 07:21 Frankon wrote:Stephano was put in a no-win situation.He either forfeit (and get screwed by the tournament official who made up rule on the fly - read the MrBitter response in the orginal thread). He plays the game by alternating 6pools and 12 drone rushes - he would still be screwed by the tournament officials cause: Quoting: ...we have to be an organization that puts the fans first. Given that principle, I came to the decision to penalize Stephano and move him to 4th place,... . I dont think fans would like four 6 pools or drone rushes... So he might have been penalized too. To be honest all tournaments need sound rules. There were no rules posted about this tournament - only the format and map pool. OR!!!! Or... or or or or!!! 1. He either TRIES! OR! 2. He either recognizes ahead of time (responsibly) that joining two tournaments simultaneously might drain his energy and so he might not have the stamina to compete in both at the same time, and makes the mature decision to only play in one. Whoops. I hate to break it to you, but that's his job. He needs to win to make money, so if he's able to do multiple tournaments to make a decent income then that's what he's got to do. Players like RainBOw or viOLet basically live off the Playhem Daily tournaments because small tourneys like that provide them with money to get through the day. He didn't want to play, the tournament punished him, and now it's over. Neither party seems too disgruntled, this does not seem like a big deal. What is mature is that Stephano made a decision as far as which tournament he would play, played that tournament, and took the punishment he got for it. What's immature is bashing somebody's reputation on a forum after they've made a decision and are sticking to it.
He made a decision to play multiple tournaments in the same evening. He didn't stick to his decision. That is what people are mostly upset about.
I agree ONOG made the right choice and I do think Stephano deserves some of the respect back for accepting his relegation to 4th place (at least I haven't heard of him being upset by the decision).
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On January 31 2012 07:39 ES.Genie wrote:
Why is this even a big deal? Happend so often in the past and nobody cared.
People are funneling their need to complain into some kind of righteous anger because it was a community sponsored event. If it was online cup #387 nobody would care.
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On January 31 2012 07:37 Legio wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 07:29 Zairair wrote:On January 31 2012 07:27 Tobberoth wrote:On January 31 2012 07:26 Zairair wrote:On January 31 2012 07:26 Tobberoth wrote:On January 31 2012 07:23 Zairair wrote:On January 31 2012 07:23 Tobberoth wrote:On January 31 2012 07:21 Zairair wrote:
Rick Perry forfeited his Republican Nomination because he was losing (as Stephano was already at a disadvantage and was losing because he was tired). Should Rick Perry be kicked out of Texas Governor because he was unprofessional (punishing Stephano and giving him 4th place when he earned 2nd place)? Rick Perry gave up and gets nothing. In the same manner, it makes perfect sense that if you forfeit a tournament, you forfeit it and get nothing. Gets nothing is not the same as "loses what he earned". Of course he loses what he earned since he didn't play the finals, so he didn't earn it, he forfeited. It's like writing a report for school and demand some of the points because you wrote a few pages before you gave up. He didn't play through to the end, I see no reason for the tournament to respect his earlier wins when he can't respect that they want a proper final. But Rick Perry did not lose anything that he earned. So why can't you boot him out of Texas? Because he didn't earn anything as part of the Republican nomination? Your analogy is horrible. So why are you guys such bad manner to Stephano? You guys are asking him to be burned at the stake and be labeled as unprofessional for his whole career? Is that justified? Stephano is the very definition of unprofessional in Esports. He lied to his team and to Col to get a raise from both teams. He isn't investing in Starcraft, instead he is going to quit playing this year to go back to school. He forfeits a finals despite the organizers hard work of putting the event together. Tell me now, is there anyone on the scene that is less professional than this?
It's would have been more unprofessional to lose the match and die of exhaustion at his keyboard. Is that what you want? Or would you rather him not play in one of his tournaments? Or would you rather him try in both tournaments to get as high as you can!!! Last option please!
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On January 31 2012 07:37 Legio wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 07:29 Zairair wrote:On January 31 2012 07:27 Tobberoth wrote:On January 31 2012 07:26 Zairair wrote:On January 31 2012 07:26 Tobberoth wrote:On January 31 2012 07:23 Zairair wrote:On January 31 2012 07:23 Tobberoth wrote:On January 31 2012 07:21 Zairair wrote:
Rick Perry forfeited his Republican Nomination because he was losing (as Stephano was already at a disadvantage and was losing because he was tired). Should Rick Perry be kicked out of Texas Governor because he was unprofessional (punishing Stephano and giving him 4th place when he earned 2nd place)? Rick Perry gave up and gets nothing. In the same manner, it makes perfect sense that if you forfeit a tournament, you forfeit it and get nothing. Gets nothing is not the same as "loses what he earned". Of course he loses what he earned since he didn't play the finals, so he didn't earn it, he forfeited. It's like writing a report for school and demand some of the points because you wrote a few pages before you gave up. He didn't play through to the end, I see no reason for the tournament to respect his earlier wins when he can't respect that they want a proper final. But Rick Perry did not lose anything that he earned. So why can't you boot him out of Texas? Because he didn't earn anything as part of the Republican nomination? Your analogy is horrible. So why are you guys such bad manner to Stephano? You guys are asking him to be burned at the stake and be labeled as unprofessional for his whole career? Is that justified? Stephano is the very definition of unprofessional in Esports. He lied to his team and to Col to get a raise from both teams. He isn't investing in Starcraft, instead he is going to quit playing this year to go back to school. He forfeits a finals despite the organizers hard work of putting the event together. Tell me now, is there anyone on the scene that is less professional than this?
He's a kid, and wait, you're scolding somebody for continuing their education?? What a retarded thing to do.
The coL/Mill situation was a big mess-up that speaks to his immaturity, but that was one incident. The fact that Stephano has accepted his punishment from ONOG shows maturity, however, even if it was an immature decision that put him there in the first place.
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Meh, Stuff happens. I don't really see how this is news worthy. It really only affects him.
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If you're falling asleep you're falling asleep. Things happen.
But if he knew the tournament would go on to the morning or whatever his time so he possibly wouldn't be able to finish it doesn't seem very polite to enter the tournament either.
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EPT
