I am proud of the decision made by ONOG. I hope this sets the standard for future events by other organizations. I hope ONOG doesn't plan to invite him to the next tournament as well just to make sure it sinks in that you can't jerk around tournament organizers like this. Stephano didn't even have the courtesy to probe rush for second place.
On January 31 2012 07:21 Zairair wrote: Rick Perry forfeited his Republican Nomination because he was losing (as Stephano was already at a disadvantage and was losing because he was tired). Should Rick Perry be kicked out of Texas Governor because he was unprofessional (punishing Stephano and giving him 4th place when he earned 2nd place)?
Rick Perry gave up and gets nothing. In the same manner, it makes perfect sense that if you forfeit a tournament, you forfeit it and get nothing.
Gets nothing is not the same as "loses what he earned".
Of course he loses what he earned since he didn't play the finals, so he didn't earn it, he forfeited. It's like writing a report for school and demand some of the points because you wrote a few pages before you gave up.
He didn't play through to the end, I see no reason for the tournament to respect his earlier wins when he can't respect that they want a proper final.
But Rick Perry did not lose anything that he earned. So why can't you boot him out of Texas?
Because he didn't earn anything as part of the Republican nomination?
Your analogy is horrible.
So why are you guys such bad manner to Stephano? You guys are asking him to be burned at the stake and be labeled as unprofessional for his whole career? Is that justified?
I've said no such thing. I've said you shouldn't expect to get second place when you refuse to play a final.
He did not refused to play! Reread original post. He said, he'll play later or lose the match. He did not play later, he lost the match. He got 2nd!
On January 31 2012 06:03 nicknup wrote: Tennis players forfeit games in tournaments they have commited to participate due to injuries and beeing tired and no one bash then.
Sure, things out of control are pretty reasonable excuses not to play -- like a pulled muscle f.e. -- but come on, Stephano accepted the invitation and knew perfectly well what he was getting into, he should have planned for it.. on top of that made wait for him an hour or so.. that's just him being completely unprofessional.
No, you can forfeit if you're exhausted and can't continue. Same thing as stephano.
Of course you can, but in that case you absolutely pay a price for it. A professional tennis player getting exhausted and forfeiting because of it is a huge deal, it means the player is pretty irresponsible with his training, preparation and on top of that show lack of temperance. He won't get any invites anytime soon.
No, actually, no one bitches about it. They point out that they have to work at their conditioning, but no one is gonna walk up to them and tell them they're unprofessional and should be punished.
Actually, yes, tired players who quit because of it absolutely lose the respect of their peers, fans and organizers.. that's how it works in any sport.
Djokovic retired from a major a few years back due to exhaustion. I don't ever remember a single article or thread written about how he's unprofessional and that he should be punished.
Yeah. Actually I really wonder how many TLers do or did a sport at a really high level, be it eSports or real sports, seeing how the well-being of the player is often completeley disregarded under the "HE OWES US THE SPECTACLE. HE MUST PLAY UNTIL HE DIES BY CARPAL TUNNEL. IT PLEASES US".
This situation has already been discussed in a blog and I feel the overall agreement was "Stephano has more than the right to forfeit. He handled this a bit roughly. He could have anticipated that he'd make finals in both tournaments. ONOG took the best decision for the viewers, but not for the players, as Stephano won the 2nd place's prize. And 80% of the posters like drama more than reflexion"
Of course he has the right to forfeit. Nobody denies that. But people also have the right to get upset. Don't deny that.
On January 31 2012 07:21 Frankon wrote: Stephano was put in a no-win situation. He either forfeit (and get screwed by the tournament official who made up rule on the fly - read the MrBitter response in the orginal thread). He plays the game by alternating 6pools and 12 drone rushes - he would still be screwed by the tournament officials cause: Quoting:
...we have to be an organization that puts the fans first. Given that principle, I came to the decision to penalize Stephano and move him to 4th place,...
. I dont think fans would like four 6 pools or drone rushes... So he might have been penalized too.
To be honest all tournaments need sound rules. There were no rules posted about this tournament - only the format and map pool.
OR!!!!
Or... or or or or!!!
1. He either TRIES!
OR!
2. He either recognizes ahead of time (responsibly) that joining two tournaments simultaneously might drain his energy and so he might not have the stamina to compete in both at the same time, and makes the mature decision to only play in one.
Whoops.
OR people could realize that shit like this happens and can't always be seen before ahead of time. Seriously, who here hasn't had appointments on the same day, and then had to give one up because something extended longer than it should have or for whatever other reason? And he did "try". He probably went on several hours longer than he wanted to playing in the semis.
Except that's not actually what happened -.-' And he knew well in advance that he was playing in both. If he assumed he was going to lose a tournament, then there would be no point in even playing in it, and just focusing on the other... so your analogy doesn't even make sense.
It was a matter of too much greed and not enough stamina.
On January 31 2012 07:27 1Eris1 wrote: That Rick Perry analogy is ridiculous. Taking away his governership would be akin to ONOG taking Stephano's prize money from IPL.
Do you guys honestly think before you formulate your arguements?
On January 31 2012 06:03 nicknup wrote: Tennis players forfeit games in tournaments they have commited to participate due to injuries and beeing tired and no one bash then.
Sure, things out of control are pretty reasonable excuses not to play -- like a pulled muscle f.e. -- but come on, Stephano accepted the invitation and knew perfectly well what he was getting into, he should have planned for it.. on top of that made wait for him an hour or so.. that's just him being completely unprofessional.
No, you can forfeit if you're exhausted and can't continue. Same thing as stephano.
Of course you can, but in that case you absolutely pay a price for it. A professional tennis player getting exhausted and forfeiting because of it is a huge deal, it means the player is pretty irresponsible with his training, preparation and on top of that show lack of temperance. He won't get any invites anytime soon.
No, actually, no one bitches about it. They point out that they have to work at their conditioning, but no one is gonna walk up to them and tell them they're unprofessional and should be punished.
Actually, yes, tired players who quit because of it absolutely lose the respect of their peers, fans and organizers.. that's how it works in any sport.
Djokovic retired from a major a few years back due to exhaustion. I don't ever remember a single article or thread written about how he's unprofessional and that he should be punished.
Yeah. Actually I really wonder how many TLers do or did a sport at a really high level, be it eSports or real sports, seeing how the well-being of the player is often completeley disregarded under the "HE OWES US THE SPECTACLE. HE MUST PLAY UNTIL HE DIES BY CARPAL TUNNEL. IT PLEASES US".
This situation has already been discussed in a blog and I feel the overall agreement was "Stephano has more than the right to forfeit. He handled this a bit roughly. He could have anticipated that he'd make finals in both tournaments. ONOG took the best decision for the viewers, but not for the players, as Stephano won the 2nd place's prize. And 80% of the posters like drama more than reflexion"
Of course he has the right to forfeit. Nobody denies that. But people also have the right to get upset. Don't deny that.
Upset enough to punish even more? That is deniable, sorry.
Having to play at 2:30AM his time is a joke... the guy has probably been practicing for well over 12 hours before that... these players need their rest. Shame on ONOG not pushing it back one day... why did it matter?
On January 31 2012 07:33 vZNuKE wrote: Having to play at 2:30AM his time is a joke... the guy has probably been practicing for well over 12 hours before that... these players need their rest. Shame on ONOG not pushing it back one day... why did it matter?
They had live barcrafts and thousands of live viewers as well as tech and casting crew?
On January 31 2012 07:21 Frankon wrote: Stephano was put in a no-win situation. He either forfeit (and get screwed by the tournament official who made up rule on the fly - read the MrBitter response in the orginal thread). He plays the game by alternating 6pools and 12 drone rushes - he would still be screwed by the tournament officials cause: Quoting:
...we have to be an organization that puts the fans first. Given that principle, I came to the decision to penalize Stephano and move him to 4th place,...
. I dont think fans would like four 6 pools or drone rushes... So he might have been penalized too.
To be honest all tournaments need sound rules. There were no rules posted about this tournament - only the format and map pool.
OR!!!!
Or... or or or or!!!
1. He either TRIES!
OR!
2. He either recognizes ahead of time (responsibly) that joining two tournaments simultaneously might drain his energy and so he might not have the stamina to compete in both at the same time, and makes the mature decision to only play in one.
Whoops.
I hate to break it to you, but that's his job. He needs to win to make money, so if he's able to do multiple tournaments to make a decent income then that's what he's got to do. Players like RainBOw or viOLet basically live off the Playhem Daily tournaments because small tourneys like that provide them with money to get through the day. He didn't want to play, the tournament punished him, and now it's over. Neither party seems too disgruntled, this does not seem like a big deal. What is mature is that Stephano made a decision as far as which tournament he would play, played that tournament, and took the punishment he got for it. What's immature is bashing somebody's reputation on a forum after they've made a decision and are sticking to it.
On January 31 2012 07:33 vZNuKE wrote: Having to play at 2:30AM his time is a joke... the guy has probably been practicing for well over 12 hours before that... these players need their rest. Shame on ONOG not pushing it back one day... why did it matter?
Yeah shame on them for sticking to their schedule.
On January 31 2012 07:21 Zairair wrote: Rick Perry forfeited his Republican Nomination because he was losing (as Stephano was already at a disadvantage and was losing because he was tired). Should Rick Perry be kicked out of Texas Governor because he was unprofessional (punishing Stephano and giving him 4th place when he earned 2nd place)?
Rick Perry gave up and gets nothing. In the same manner, it makes perfect sense that if you forfeit a tournament, you forfeit it and get nothing.
Gets nothing is not the same as "loses what he earned".
Of course he loses what he earned since he didn't play the finals, so he didn't earn it, he forfeited. It's like writing a report for school and demand some of the points because you wrote a few pages before you gave up.
He didn't play through to the end, I see no reason for the tournament to respect his earlier wins when he can't respect that they want a proper final.
But Rick Perry did not lose anything that he earned. So why can't you boot him out of Texas?
Because he didn't earn anything as part of the Republican nomination?
Your analogy is horrible.
So why are you guys such bad manner to Stephano? You guys are asking him to be burned at the stake and be labeled as unprofessional for his whole career? Is that justified?
I've said no such thing. I've said you shouldn't expect to get second place when you refuse to play a final.
He did not refused to play! Reread original post. He said, he'll play later or lose the match. He did not play later, he lost the match. He got 2nd!
Did it say in the rules he was allowed to postpone games? No? Then his actual options were: 1. Play the final, win or lose, get 1st or 2nd. 2. Give up the tournament.
He decided to give up the tournament, and unfortunately, it didn't say in the rules what would happen in that case, which is unfortunate. What the hosts decided to do is perfectly understandable, though I hope tournaments in the future will put into print what happens if you forfeit. IMO, if you forfeit a game, you should always be removed from the tournament, since you didn't complete it.
On January 31 2012 07:24 Ninjahoe wrote: To everyone comparing this to the naniwa incident, it's VERY diffrent in a key point. This game actually mattered.
Yea. It seems like alot of people are defending Stephano here, but when Naniwa probe rushed he got so much fkn hate, way way more than Stephano in this incident. Naniwa was also punished very harshly (stripped off Code S), even after giving a very sincere apology not only from himself personally but also from his team.
And imo, this incident with Stephano was far worse for a few reasons: The game actually mattered, as it was a Bo7 Finals. (Thus he forfeited not one match like Naniwa, but a potential 7). And also that this was a community driven event, with all the money for the tournament earned by volunteer work, it was a tournament by the fans for the fans. This money was on the line, the hard work of the organizers, and Stephano just spat in their face. Naniwa did aswell, but at least in his match the winner would have received nothing at all.
On January 31 2012 07:20 tekos44 wrote: Why isnt the ONOG caster sentence about french people in the OP ?
"stephano the french pride - french doing what the french do best and surrender, keeping the record in surrendering"
I mean, if you want drama, this is pretty good too
He does have a point. The caster's statement was out of line. Taking Stephano's actions, the actions of one individual and attributing them to an entire nation is unprofessional as well.
On January 31 2012 07:27 1Eris1 wrote: That Rick Perry analogy is ridiculous. Taking away his governership would be akin to ONOG taking Stephano's prize money from IPL.
Do you guys honestly think before you formulate your arguements?
seriously. wtf is wrong with people.....
Take away all his endorsements and campaign funds then and give them to his opponent or Obama... Same thing. Fill in the boxes jeez. I'm no politician.
On January 31 2012 06:03 nicknup wrote: Tennis players forfeit games in tournaments they have commited to participate due to injuries and beeing tired and no one bash then.
Sure, things out of control are pretty reasonable excuses not to play -- like a pulled muscle f.e. -- but come on, Stephano accepted the invitation and knew perfectly well what he was getting into, he should have planned for it.. on top of that made wait for him an hour or so.. that's just him being completely unprofessional.
No, you can forfeit if you're exhausted and can't continue. Same thing as stephano.
Of course you can, but in that case you absolutely pay a price for it. A professional tennis player getting exhausted and forfeiting because of it is a huge deal, it means the player is pretty irresponsible with his training, preparation and on top of that show lack of temperance. He won't get any invites anytime soon.
No, actually, no one bitches about it. They point out that they have to work at their conditioning, but no one is gonna walk up to them and tell them they're unprofessional and should be punished.
Actually, yes, tired players who quit because of it absolutely lose the respect of their peers, fans and organizers.. that's how it works in any sport.
Djokovic retired from a major a few years back due to exhaustion. I don't ever remember a single article or thread written about how he's unprofessional and that he should be punished.
Yeah. Actually I really wonder how many TLers do or did a sport at a really high level, be it eSports or real sports, seeing how the well-being of the player is often completeley disregarded under the "HE OWES US THE SPECTACLE. HE MUST PLAY UNTIL HE DIES BY CARPAL TUNNEL. IT PLEASES US".
This situation has already been discussed in a blog and I feel the overall agreement was "Stephano has more than the right to forfeit. He handled this a bit roughly. He could have anticipated that he'd make finals in both tournaments. ONOG took the best decision for the viewers, but not for the players, as Stephano won the 2nd place's prize. And 80% of the posters like drama more than reflexion"
I play and watch tennis, and I can tell you that there's a huge difference between "I practiced solely for a tennis Grand Slam for weeks and now I'm totally pissed that I need to retire from the match because I'm hurt, but that's what I have to do" and "I purposely scheduled two tournaments on the same day and I know there will be conflicts but I'll just forfeit from one later on because I know I won't have the stamina to compete... [ends up being the finals]".
I have a hard time faulting Stephano for not playing at 2:30 AM... really if ONOG had run his match anywhere near on schedule (that is, run his re-scheduled match on time) it sounds like he was willing to play. I'm sure as they run more of these tournaments they will get better at setting a realistic schedule ahead of time. There is not a lot you can do about the variable game lengths except plan and learn, plan and learn etc.
What I don't like is the idea that a tournament like this needs to "stand up to players". MLG maybe - but ONOG? This is not the next iteration of the Nani/Gom issue, this is just a freshman tournament that had things get out of hand. I'm not impressed with the decision to invent a punishment.
This fiasco makes Stephano seem like a jerk- but when you look at it, all the other tournaments he participated in that day accommodated him just fine, only ONOG was left with unfinished matches at 2+ AM
On January 31 2012 07:33 vZNuKE wrote: Having to play at 2:30AM his time is a joke... the guy has probably been practicing for well over 12 hours before that... these players need their rest. Shame on ONOG not pushing it back one day... why did it matter?
That's ridiculous. He made a commitment and if cannot honor that commitment he should be penalized, which he was. There is no reason that he deserves second place as he did not play the matches. However, he's been punished, his tweets would indicate that it's not a big deal to him, and therefore we should all move along.
On January 31 2012 06:03 nicknup wrote: Tennis players forfeit games in tournaments they have commited to participate due to injuries and beeing tired and no one bash then.
Sure, things out of control are pretty reasonable excuses not to play -- like a pulled muscle f.e. -- but come on, Stephano accepted the invitation and knew perfectly well what he was getting into, he should have planned for it.. on top of that made wait for him an hour or so.. that's just him being completely unprofessional.
No, you can forfeit if you're exhausted and can't continue. Same thing as stephano.
Of course you can, but in that case you absolutely pay a price for it. A professional tennis player getting exhausted and forfeiting because of it is a huge deal, it means the player is pretty irresponsible with his training, preparation and on top of that show lack of temperance. He won't get any invites anytime soon.
No, actually, no one bitches about it. They point out that they have to work at their conditioning, but no one is gonna walk up to them and tell them they're unprofessional and should be punished.
Actually, yes, tired players who quit because of it absolutely lose the respect of their peers, fans and organizers.. that's how it works in any sport.
Djokovic retired from a major a few years back due to exhaustion. I don't ever remember a single article or thread written about how he's unprofessional and that he should be punished.
Yeah. Actually I really wonder how many TLers do or did a sport at a really high level, be it eSports or real sports, seeing how the well-being of the player is often completeley disregarded under the "HE OWES US THE SPECTACLE. HE MUST PLAY UNTIL HE DIES BY CARPAL TUNNEL. IT PLEASES US".
This situation has already been discussed in a blog and I feel the overall agreement was "Stephano has more than the right to forfeit. He handled this a bit roughly. He could have anticipated that he'd make finals in both tournaments. ONOG took the best decision for the viewers, but not for the players, as Stephano won the 2nd place's prize. And 80% of the posters like drama more than reflexion"
Of course he has the right to forfeit. Nobody denies that. But people also have the right to get upset. Don't deny that.
There is no such thing a right to forfeit. But this has been discussed to bits already.
EPT
