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Active: 1466 users

We Must Fight For The Carrier - Page 87

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 85 86 87 88 89 94 Next
NEOtheONE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2233 Posts
September 14 2012 19:54 GMT
#1721
Yes! Now if they add the ability to continue attacking while moving the carrier like we could in BW, then maybe the carrier will be more practical.
Abstracts, the too long didn't read of the educated world.
Zrana
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom698 Posts
September 14 2012 19:54 GMT
#1722
Gotta say i kinda disagree with this thread, i actually think blizz can do a better job than than a load of players. Look at the mothership; it was going to be removed at one point but the reddit-reading, mlg-watching bronze to gold leaguers loved it so much it stayed in the game, and now any lategame PvX is decided on a single vortex, instead of any strategic or clever play.

Apart from looks, what's actually interesting about the carrier? You just mass a bunch of them and win (or otherwise). The carrier and collosus are extremely similar in terms of function and how using them affects a match. It's simply, "Does my opponent have enough vikings/corruptors to beat my army?" If yes, game continues as if i'd never built carriers - if no, win. Such hard-counter based design is not interesting. Look at interesting units like siege tanks in tvz. They don't really have a unit that can be said to counter them, instead you beat them by engaging when they unsiege or flanking them or attacking elsewhere. The carrier in bw was countered by goliaths, but goliaths are ground units so there was still some depth to the interaction between carrier/goliath even after both units were on the field as the carriers could use terrain to their advantage.

In SC2, goliaths fly and are called Vikings. Now instead of a positional battle you get a counter-based battle. Carriers > Terran ground army > stalkers > vikings > carriers. This is not without depth and interest but it just leads to more deathball play.

Terran and zerg have a load of cool stuff that allows positional play or mobility/multi-pronged play. Protoss is still stuck with herp derp put my units in a big group and shove them across the map.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
September 14 2012 19:59 GMT
#1723
SICKEST NERD CHILLS TASTELESS!!! CARRIER IS BACK!!!
DrGreen
Profile Joined July 2010
Poland708 Posts
September 14 2012 19:59 GMT
#1724
So we've got the carrier back, but we cannot stop here.

Carrier must be buffed (micro wise, not stat wise)
isaachukfan
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada785 Posts
September 14 2012 20:04 GMT
#1725
Carriers > Terran ground army

I'm sorry are your A and T keys broken?


WE HAVE VICTORY!!!!!!
I'm a mennonite, yes I'm allowed to use a computer
Zrana
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom698 Posts
September 14 2012 20:08 GMT
#1726
On September 15 2012 05:04 isaachukfan wrote:
Show nested quote +
Carriers > Terran ground army

I'm sorry are your A and T keys broken?


WE HAVE VICTORY!!!!!!


Well i meant vs mech in HotS. For vs bio just replace carrier with collosus.
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
September 14 2012 20:11 GMT
#1727
On September 15 2012 04:59 Mohdoo wrote:
SICKEST NERD CHILLS TASTELESS!!! CARRIER IS BACK!!!


GJ with the thread. Mohdoo, savior of skytoss.
MMA: The true King of Wings
Sunrunner
Profile Joined July 2011
United States80 Posts
September 14 2012 20:13 GMT
#1728
Carrier has arrived!
DrGreen
Profile Joined July 2010
Poland708 Posts
September 14 2012 20:26 GMT
#1729
On September 15 2012 05:08 Zrana wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2012 05:04 isaachukfan wrote:
Carriers > Terran ground army

I'm sorry are your A and T keys broken?


WE HAVE VICTORY!!!!!!


Well i meant vs mech in HotS. For vs bio just replace carrier with collosus.


Last time I checked vikings/BCs were pretty good vs carriers
ThirdDegree
Profile Joined February 2011
United States329 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-14 20:29:17
September 14 2012 20:26 GMT
#1730
I am now suuuuuper excited for hots. Although, now that we have the carrier back, i feel like the warhound shouldn't get axed. maybe changed a bit, but mass warhounds won't lend itself well to mass vikings, and so the carrier would be a good counter to mech play.
I am terrible
Kingsky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Singapore298 Posts
September 14 2012 20:33 GMT
#1731
We won boys! we won!!!
Why do people hate the Colossus? Because the Colossus is like banksters from Wall Street: “too big to fail”. - TheDwF
wcr.4fun
Profile Joined April 2012
Belgium686 Posts
September 14 2012 20:33 GMT
#1732
mech is kinda dead now anyway. Unless siege tanks are buffed. Widow mine and battle hellion alone don't make mech viable compared to wol.
ThirdDegree
Profile Joined February 2011
United States329 Posts
September 14 2012 20:36 GMT
#1733
Without the warhound you are right, but now a single factory pumping out double widow mines could be a pretty good support for bio. not a huge investment, and now you have reason to keep your factory around, instead of using it as a sacrificial scout.
I am terrible
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-14 20:38:49
September 14 2012 20:37 GMT
#1734
On September 15 2012 05:11 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2012 04:59 Mohdoo wrote:
SICKEST NERD CHILLS TASTELESS!!! CARRIER IS BACK!!!


GJ with the thread. Mohdoo, savior of skytoss.

[image loading]
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
September 14 2012 20:39 GMT
#1735
meh, with carrier back and warhound gone this hardly feels like an expansion anymore, I feel like nothing's really changed..
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
Tsunami49
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom46 Posts
September 14 2012 20:39 GMT
#1736
On September 15 2012 05:33 Kingsky wrote:
We won boys! we won!!!


Not really. Its still kind of useless. It needs a micro'ing aspect integrated into it. An in SC2 the interceptors just die far to fast and end up being a terrible mineral sink.
Getting out of woodleague, My Blog: http://wp.me/p32YqT-e
Master of DalK
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Canada1803 Posts
September 14 2012 20:42 GMT
#1737
HUZZAH! The carrier has arrived in HotS!
@MasterDalK | Maelstrom Entertainment | Streaming Every Esport Under the Sun
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
September 14 2012 20:43 GMT
#1738
On September 15 2012 05:39 Tsunami49 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2012 05:33 Kingsky wrote:
We won boys! we won!!!


Not really. Its still kind of useless. It needs a micro'ing aspect integrated into it. An in SC2 the interceptors just die far to fast and end up being a terrible mineral sink.


The Carrier never got any love because they knew it was gonna get removed. The Carrier is now something Blizzard actually cares about.
rd
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2586 Posts
September 14 2012 20:43 GMT
#1739
On September 15 2012 04:54 Zrana wrote:
Gotta say i kinda disagree with this thread, i actually think blizz can do a better job than than a load of players. Look at the mothership; it was going to be removed at one point but the reddit-reading, mlg-watching bronze to gold leaguers loved it so much it stayed in the game, and now any lategame PvX is decided on a single vortex, instead of any strategic or clever play.

Apart from looks, what's actually interesting about the carrier? You just mass a bunch of them and win (or otherwise). The carrier and collosus are extremely similar in terms of function and how using them affects a match. It's simply, "Does my opponent have enough vikings/corruptors to beat my army?" If yes, game continues as if i'd never built carriers - if no, win. Such hard-counter based design is not interesting. Look at interesting units like siege tanks in tvz. They don't really have a unit that can be said to counter them, instead you beat them by engaging when they unsiege or flanking them or attacking elsewhere. The carrier in bw was countered by goliaths, but goliaths are ground units so there was still some depth to the interaction between carrier/goliath even after both units were on the field as the carriers could use terrain to their advantage.

In SC2, goliaths fly and are called Vikings. Now instead of a positional battle you get a counter-based battle. Carriers > Terran ground army > stalkers > vikings > carriers. This is not without depth and interest but it just leads to more deathball play.

Terran and zerg have a load of cool stuff that allows positional play or mobility/multi-pronged play. Protoss is still stuck with herp derp put my units in a big group and shove them across the map.


Your arguments earn no credence making highly opinionated, uneducated generalizations. Even further, I question how one makes the absolutely incorrect to statement that a Colossus and Carrier serve the same function when their functions are world's apart -- so much so that they're polar opposites in usage.

also lol @ carriers > terran ground army
Zrana
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom698 Posts
September 14 2012 20:47 GMT
#1740
On September 15 2012 05:43 rd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2012 04:54 Zrana wrote:
Gotta say i kinda disagree with this thread, i actually think blizz can do a better job than than a load of players. Look at the mothership; it was going to be removed at one point but the reddit-reading, mlg-watching bronze to gold leaguers loved it so much it stayed in the game, and now any lategame PvX is decided on a single vortex, instead of any strategic or clever play.

Apart from looks, what's actually interesting about the carrier? You just mass a bunch of them and win (or otherwise). The carrier and collosus are extremely similar in terms of function and how using them affects a match. It's simply, "Does my opponent have enough vikings/corruptors to beat my army?" If yes, game continues as if i'd never built carriers - if no, win. Such hard-counter based design is not interesting. Look at interesting units like siege tanks in tvz. They don't really have a unit that can be said to counter them, instead you beat them by engaging when they unsiege or flanking them or attacking elsewhere. The carrier in bw was countered by goliaths, but goliaths are ground units so there was still some depth to the interaction between carrier/goliath even after both units were on the field as the carriers could use terrain to their advantage.

In SC2, goliaths fly and are called Vikings. Now instead of a positional battle you get a counter-based battle. Carriers > Terran ground army > stalkers > vikings > carriers. This is not without depth and interest but it just leads to more deathball play.

Terran and zerg have a load of cool stuff that allows positional play or mobility/multi-pronged play. Protoss is still stuck with herp derp put my units in a big group and shove them across the map.


Your arguments earn no credence making highly opinionated, uneducated generalizations. Even further, I question how one makes the absolutely incorrect to statement that a Colossus and Carrier serve the same function when their functions are world's apart -- so much so that they're polar opposites in usage.




Really? How do the carrier and collosus really differ?
They are both big, high-tech units that are weak to anti-air and very strong vs ground. The difference is in how they attack. All it means is that marines are better vs unsupported carriers. Once you get to the lategame and storms are available, what does the carrier give you that the collosus doesn't?
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