EPT2v2 is also a great idea.
Skill gap between friends: how to keep SC2 fun? - Page 6
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Abenson
Canada4122 Posts
2v2 is also a great idea. | ||
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
Obviously it doesn't work for serious laddering/tournament play. But if you're just plaing customs with friends its good. | ||
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Philosophy
186 Posts
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
I also really like playing FFA games w/ my buddies. Nobody really has to try if they don't want to, and you can have alot of fun just being ridiculous. For instance, my friend Dane and I ALWAYS try to kill eachother at all costs in every FFA. If we're both nearly dead and trying to recover, he'll still devote all his money to flying a dropship with 1 unit cross map just to kill 2-3 of my workers. It's a ton of fun! Also, we both rarely win  , but that ain't the point either! :D | ||
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Troxle
United States486 Posts
I also encourage them to watch streams where the player talks through what he/she is doing (though the only streams I know of that do this are Snute and Sheth, but then again I'm a Zerg player so I really only watch Zerg streams). The other thing I encourage them to do is ladder. I've gotten almost all my friends into gold and two into platinum. If you work through their basic mechanics and help them fix it, you'll notice they can get better a lot quickly. Once they have the macro down. Introduce them to Darglein's Micro Challenge. It doesn't have all the micro skills one should use, but it has a lot of great skills to practice. When you play against them, also try doing outrageous builds you would never attempt. Proxy a Nexus in their base and try and Mothership rush them with it or make 0 units, tech to infestors, get neural parasite and try and build either a CC or a Nexus (the CC is harder and I don't even know if you can do it anymore, I tried it once and got it halfway through building; the Nexus is easily doable). Outlandish builds that won't realistically work are perfect for this. Edit: Day[9]! <3 | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
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B-Roll
United States403 Posts
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theaxis12
United States489 Posts
Another thing is you just have to play straight up vs. people of lower levels, no stargates vs zerg, no dt's or banshees, don't attack before 8 min., don't deny expos, ect. Best bet is just to build up a one dimensional army and attack their army, don't mess with their bases, so even if they lose the battle they can still build stuff and the game can continue and you can tell them what to build to counter your army so they learn which units are good in certain situations. | ||
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Falcons_Kaz
Canada15 Posts
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ballasdontcry
Canada595 Posts
On January 18 2012 05:59 RoboBob wrote: You know that there is a handicap feature in the custom game screen, right? Honestly I didn't notice it myself until a few months ago. You can play around with the percentages to "nerf down" the units of higher league players. Obviously it doesn't work for serious laddering/tournament play. But if you're just plaing customs with friends its good. it doesn't help that much when the friend is absolutely inept at macroing. i've played custom 1s and 2s with friends who are just horri-bad and when you're on 80 supply at 15:00 with absolutely zero pressure applied, it's kinda hard for them even with handicap. | ||
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Vul
United States685 Posts
But my friend actually takes the game seriously, if he didn't we would just play monobattles or I would not take the game seriously at all. If they just want to have fun then just have fun lol | ||
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Josh_rakoons
United Kingdom1158 Posts
On January 17 2012 22:27 YipMan wrote: Yea, they shall keep stuck and never improve! Sounds logical. They are casual, they play for fun, they don't care about improving. | ||
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warblob004
United States198 Posts
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
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snively
United States1159 Posts
We really don't play together too much. Most of us spend our time on the ladder, and I'll play a friendly 1v1 or something maybe once or twice a week. We also do partial team ladder games, i.e. three of us in a party playing a 4v4, or two of us in a 3v3. It really screws with the system when you have a bronze and a diamond together in a "random" 4v4 team. | ||
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Gemini00
United States397 Posts
On January 18 2012 00:52 MrTortoise wrote: The problem i have is people who cba learning the game but expect to win. I dont get why noobs expect to win games at all. If you know next to nothing and you win the game ... well you just wasted time. There is a proverb in a game i love that is 'lose your first hundred games as fast as you can'. Most people hear it and think 'i wont lose 100 games, ill start winning before that'. they don't seem to get that loosing and finding all the ways to lose is probably more important. Especially given that your way to win is probably bad and relies on other guy being a noob also. The alternative is they think i will lose 100 games? that doesn't sound like fun! No, but it may reprogram you into not being a superficial douche. I also don't get why people are brought up thinking that the objective in team games is to win *at all costs*. The point of games is to train certain skills and find ways to apply them in life - and most importantly have fun because the stakes are almost zero. Sadly winning = fun for most people. Also spending time to get good != fun either unless it translates into immediate results. People also dont get that knowing shit in terms of execution also involves all the pathways to your limbs and they take time to train. People are also incredibly bad at giving themselves ways to measure objectivley so cannot see progress. But then maybe as im a stoner so i get my instant gratification whenever i like elsewhere. Seems to be making sweeping generalizations on forums tbh. I think its because people have to push themselves in life and cba doing so in games. But if you are 20 or under that's a bullshit excuse that deserves a slap imo. Problem i have is that you cant play teaching games with most people because they dont like it when you tell them that you are but then act like dicks when you lose after playing with 1 hand behind your back or whilst looking in a mirror or somethign retarded. The best games i know all have amazing handicap systems that transform the meta game in ways that can be applied in even games given the right situations - eg go. IE they build up many instances of common situations with lots of symmetry so iterations of ideas can happen quickly and independantly in the noobs head yet the stronger player has to take all of the instances into account at once in order to play. This is one of the most insightful posts I've read in a long time, and really touches on some of the fundamental reasons why humans (or any animal, for that matter) actually play. I think that most of us are so inherently wired to feel that winning is great and that losing sucks and should be avoided at all costs exactly because in life losing usually has negative consequences, e.g. competing for a job or a promotion or for the attention of that cute girl you like. Games and play in general are great ways to learn and develop skills in a no-consequence environment where failure doesn't matter, and yet still it's so difficult to turn off that natural fear of losing. At the same time, I think it's important to remember that games can be about so much more than just a sandbox environment for self-improvement. Game designer Marc LeBlanc talks about this concept a lot with his "8 kinds of fun", emphasizing that goals such as relaxation, socialization, and expression are equally valid ways to enjoy a game. Some people just tend to naturally prefer those gaming objectives over ideas like competition and learning, and that's ok. I would definitely try to still encourage anyone that is playing Starcraft to have a mindset toward adapting and developing new skills since the game is SO much more awesome and fun when you play it that way. For many people, though, it might be better to focus your gaming sessions between friends less on the competitive aspect itself, and instead find ways to make it more of an opportunity to socialize and experiment with fun crazy ideas. I really like ideas like playing with shared control and giving the less experienced players a specific responsibility such as army management, or any kind of artificial constraint on the game such as monobattling that shifts the focus away from multitasking-intensive strategy. It's also worth remembering that it's hard for people to feel motivated to improve when the goal is too far away. Perhaps instead of just playing goofy cheese builds against the weaker friend, it might be better to play straight up, but only well enough that your friend actually has a chance to win if they play a little bit better. That way when you give them advice for the next game and they execute it, they can suddenly see the goal moving much closer instead of feeling like they just get owned no matter how hard they try. | ||
Falling
Canada11379 Posts
I hate having to check myself and not try hard. As I want to be able to try my best, but play a competitive game with my friends. Mentally, the game becomes boring and I end up second guessing myself on whether I'm trying "too hard" or not hard enough. In addition, I feel it robs my friends of a legitimate victory if I wasn't trying- even if I keep it to myself. The most success I've had is imbalancing the teams and then putting limitations on myself. So for instance 2v2v1 where I am the one player by myself. Then I off-race and then I limit myself with not being able to make very key, powerful unit. So Terran no tank (BW this is actually a big deal, especially vs other Terrans.) This I find is hilariously fun and you get to experiment with all sorts of funky strategies that you'd never otherwise try as you have to work around that core unit. Marine drop into nukes or mass vultures into mass wraith. With imba teams (and more than 2 sides) you can be winning one side and then get back-stabbed a moment later. It forces creativity and allows you to push your own skills to the limit with the set up bounds. Furthermore, it's possible for your friends to gain a legitimate victory with you trying your hardest within the confines of whatever limitations that were agreed too. Plus it pushes you away from "standard build orders" and that experimentation is fun in and of itself as you find which units synergze better without the missing unit (or units). Now, you'd have to adjust which unit would be best to take out for what works in SC2 (and in that sense it's almost like monobattles.) But having more than one side in a battle also makes things more fun imo. 2v2v2v2 is waaaay better than 4v4. That or fun UMS maps- Has anyone made a Tandem Starcraft 2 map like Chef did for BW? That map was so cool. (though there is an issue with Battlenet2.0 map system, but if you find them in advance, you can cue up some cool games amongst friends.) | ||
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imJealous
United States1382 Posts
Starbattle It's a fun ums that anyone with a pulse and an interest in team player vs player games can learn and become really good at with little effort. Its great for your friends who refuse to improve at real starcraft because they just want to "do my own thing" and build something cool rather than learn to manage workers, bases, and production structures. It lets you play as one of the capitol ships (carrier, battlecruiser, the zerg leviathan from the campaign, etc... there are 9 ships in total) and level it up and customize your strengths and weaknesses. Games usually last anywhere from 15-45 minutes depending on how evenly the teams are matched. This is what me and my friends I grew up playing BGH with play now since none of them seem capable of playing above a silver level in actual starcraft. | ||
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scudst0rm
Canada1149 Posts
Here's an idea I've wanted to try for a while. when you have 6+ (even #) friends on of varying skills try playing an all-kill style team league. divide yourselves into even teams and play your players going from worst to best. Everyone should get to play against someone at their own level (then someone better if they win). Also watching your friends play is a lot of fun. | ||
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leveller
Sweden1840 Posts
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