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On January 18 2012 00:56 -_-Quails wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 22:58 YipMan wrote:On January 17 2012 22:36 Josh111 wrote:On January 17 2012 22:27 YipMan wrote:On January 17 2012 22:19 Iranon wrote:
Maybe share control? Try having the bronze players actually make attacking decisions, but the better players control production cycles and scouting. Then both parties would have strong macro and strategic information, and the bronze players could skip right to the fun part (for them), smashing things into other things. Yea, they shall keep stuck and never improve! Sounds logical. Well the thing is, they do not want to improve. They are not playing sc2 to go up in ranks, they are ok with bronze. Well, honestly you can't resist improving if you do something repeatedly. And if you can't take the advice to build more workers or to build a gateway at 13 instead of building it at 18 supply, what's the point playing then? From Bronze to Diamond it's really just about macro, it does not really matter that much what units you build, just keep the money low... You would be surprised at the things that keep some people in bronze. I have obsed custom games where one player insisted on opening with 2 banshees then using them to kill off the tech lab on the starport before attacking. They would easily be silver if they didn't waste time destroying their own buildings whenever they deciide they won't need them again.
Wait what? The campaign teaches you that add-ons are recyclable. They should at least play through the campaign.
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A good way to integrate good and bad is the macro-micro gametype where one controls macro and the other controls micro - sure you might end up losing but at least you're working in a team and teaching them what to do for their respective role.
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On January 18 2012 01:03 Zorkmid wrote:
Isn't there a built it handicapper thing? I haven't used it though.
There is but it simply makes your units have less health. It is kind of silly.
All my friends who used to play have stopped. I don't really see the reason behind playing a 1v1 with someone far inferior because the only thing I could do is whacky strategies which helps neither one of us. If we wanted to have fun we'd just play a 2v2 or something.
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On January 18 2012 01:06 Tenks wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 01:03 Zorkmid wrote:
Isn't there a built it handicapper thing? I haven't used it though. There is but it simply makes your units have less health. It is kind of silly. All my friends who used to play have stopped. I don't really see the reason behind playing a 1v1 with someone far inferior because the only thing I could do is whacky strategies which helps neither one of us. If we wanted to have fun we'd just play a 2v2 or something.
well having your units at 50% starting health (and maximum) should do a significent difference. Maybe not enough to be beaten by a bronze player but im pretty sure a gold player could beat pretty much anyone if they had 50% handicap (ok not pro koreans)
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On January 18 2012 00:56 -_-Quails wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 22:58 YipMan wrote:On January 17 2012 22:36 Josh111 wrote:On January 17 2012 22:27 YipMan wrote:On January 17 2012 22:19 Iranon wrote:
Maybe share control? Try having the bronze players actually make attacking decisions, but the better players control production cycles and scouting. Then both parties would have strong macro and strategic information, and the bronze players could skip right to the fun part (for them), smashing things into other things. Yea, they shall keep stuck and never improve! Sounds logical. Well the thing is, they do not want to improve. They are not playing sc2 to go up in ranks, they are ok with bronze. Well, honestly you can't resist improving if you do something repeatedly. And if you can't take the advice to build more workers or to build a gateway at 13 instead of building it at 18 supply, what's the point playing then? From Bronze to Diamond it's really just about macro, it does not really matter that much what units you build, just keep the money low... You would be surprised at the things that keep some people in bronze. I have obsed custom games where one player insisted on opening with 2 banshees then using them to kill off the tech lab on the starport before attacking. They would easily be silver if they didn't waste time destroying their own buildings whenever they deciide they won't need them again.
Such a significant logic fail leads me to believe theres more to being bronze than the tactic itself lol.
Anyway I simply never play against my friends.(im mid-high masters and theyre plat and lower) We just play team games, no more than 4 of us at a time. We even got a 2v2 team to top 8 masters last season. Just play together, the mmr will take care of itself even if youre carrying.
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i would try to help them via "voip" when i scout them etc tell em what they should do. and i try to never out macro them like staying on 2base not micro my attacks att all. and sometimes even get into bad positions against them so they can learn, i experiment alot.
the wrost thing about playing your lesser skilled friends is that personaly i dont get any training at all done 
tell them to allways max que workers if they are bad.
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I play with a couple high diamond friends (I'm Plat, but I compete pretty well with the diamonds) and a Silver buddy. We do a lot of team ladder games and fuck around, and we do a lot of free for alls where we pretty much silently agree that we won't murder the Silver player early. He plays his main race and we all play random (but me and one of the diamond players are random players anyways) and we usually turtle and do stupid harasses to each other (but not Mr. Silver, we let him build voidrays in peace :D).
He also loves Hero Attack. So we do that a lot.
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On January 18 2012 02:20 LHR wrote:
get new friends
I hadn't considered that yet.
Simple solution really, no need to work those complicated handicap sliders.
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On January 18 2012 02:20 LHR wrote:
get new friends
This is brilliant!
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My friends and I play 1v1 obs when we are playing with a 2-3 league skill gap. We just settle for watching lower league friends play each other and occasionally we give advice. If we play teams, just play a fularranged team and your placements should line up. You'll probably have to carry a bit and as long as you defend your teammate they'll have fun building a 200/200 army and rolling out at the 25 minute mark. You can also have hem share control so they can focus on macro or focus on micro.
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I don't think there's anything you can do. If/when I play with my friends who are in gold league, they're going to get smashed just because no matter what race I play and what strat I do; I have way more units. As a result I just don't play versus my friends because it just isn't very fun for them or me. Instead I try to obs their games and help them out, etc. I don't know about team games, because I only play 1v1, though.
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On January 18 2012 02:20 LHR wrote:
get new friends
very very true, I had the exact same issue with BW where my group of friends only played games at school, wheras I decided to start playing on iccup and seriously following the scene. Soon enough the skill gap became too large. At this point I found the Korean kids in my class and played with them.  now if you aren't lucky enough to have serious gamers you can meet up with maps like fastest and BGH are really good at evening the skill scale due to extremely simple strategy and that you can choose to pick maybe a less ideal core unit
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On January 18 2012 02:20 LHR wrote:
get new friends
This is the best post in this thread.
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i never found a way to deal with it, me and my friend use to always 1v1 eachother and after awhile i was always winning, this resulted in him complaining and telling me why the way do shit is wrong even though i won, the fact is he saw i was better than him even when we both started at the same skill level and it drove him to believe that i was actually a huge idiot and played horribly (even tho i won every game) and he even made a thread about me (http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=182076) they are blinded and the best thing i could do was not play with him anymore :/ he doesnt even play sc2 anymore
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The problem with "messing around" and doing silly strategies is that your lower league buddy will feel patronised; that you're just playing and toying with them (which is true). It doesn't help, really.
As is sounds like you have a bunch of friends, try team games with MIXED skills (some good + some bad on each team). Put shared unit control on, and have the BAD players control all the army, while the GOOD players make all the stuff. The bad players can have fun only doing crazy attacks and harassment and engagements without having to worry about anything else. Most people can actually micro fairly well, but macro is where the real skill differences show. It also gives the more serious players a decent opportunity to simply practice macroing, which they are more likely to enjoy and find useful.
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On January 18 2012 01:08 Pulimuli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 01:06 Tenks wrote:On January 18 2012 01:03 Zorkmid wrote:
Isn't there a built it handicapper thing? I haven't used it though. There is but it simply makes your units have less health. It is kind of silly. All my friends who used to play have stopped. I don't really see the reason behind playing a 1v1 with someone far inferior because the only thing I could do is whacky strategies which helps neither one of us. If we wanted to have fun we'd just play a 2v2 or something. well having your units at 50% starting health (and maximum) should do a significent difference. Maybe not enough to be beaten by a bronze player but im pretty sure a gold player could beat pretty much anyone if they had 50% handicap (ok not pro koreans)
youd be surprised. I'm high diamond and I always beat my gold-low plat friends, even with 50%. It just doesn't matter that much I find, especially with terran where everything is a glass cannon anyway.
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I find that if my friends aren't opposed to getting better, it is possible to just have them share control of their units and you tell them approximately what they should build. If their minerals start piling up they can send it to you and you can build some more production facilities.
Play 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4 with your friends just to have fun... the skill level of most people on the ladder for team games is MUCH lower than for 1v1 from personal experience. Oh, also communicate with them on skype, phone or some other voice chat so you don't have to type to tell them things!
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On January 18 2012 01:08 Pulimuli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 01:06 Tenks wrote:On January 18 2012 01:03 Zorkmid wrote:
Isn't there a built it handicapper thing? I haven't used it though. There is but it simply makes your units have less health. It is kind of silly. All my friends who used to play have stopped. I don't really see the reason behind playing a 1v1 with someone far inferior because the only thing I could do is whacky strategies which helps neither one of us. If we wanted to have fun we'd just play a 2v2 or something. well having your units at 50% starting health (and maximum) should do a significent difference. Maybe not enough to be beaten by a bronze player but im pretty sure a gold player could beat pretty much anyone if they had 50% handicap (ok not pro koreans)
It does make a difference but it makes it so suddenly you're playing a completely different game. AOE becomes insanely powerful when you handicap yourself. My friend was a Gold Protoss and all he had to do was crank out a few Colossus and there really wasn't anything I could do to stop them.
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EPT
