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cArn and eSahara parts ways - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
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zere
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany1287 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-12 12:24:50
January 12 2012 12:24 GMT
#61
And this has nothing to do with that. Yes, I suppose they were not happy with his results, and therefore probably wanted him gone for that.
Which has nothing to do with what I tried to point out. I'm already past that. As Aphasie pointed out, it really feels like this serves as an excuse to kick him out. The wording of this news ("plus que délicate", "expulsé de la GOM house,", "très décevants", "manque de motivation") is a very straight-forward effort to discredit cArn, and that's what tips me off here. I feel this is inappropriate, a disgrace.
ModeratorWenn ich einmal traurig bin, dann trink' ich einen Korn. Wenn ich dann noch traurig bin, dann trink' ich noch 'nen Korn. Und wenn ich dann noch traurig bin, dann fang' ich an von vorn!
michielbrands
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands1146 Posts
January 12 2012 12:25 GMT
#62
Hope cArn will find a new team, I've read his blogs about Korea, and that was one of the most intresting / inspiring esport stories I've read the last year
- me (L) competitive gaming -
Frogsox
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia274 Posts
January 12 2012 12:27 GMT
#63
On January 12 2012 21:19 KeksX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 12 2012 21:16 Frogsox wrote:
On January 12 2012 21:09 KeksX wrote:
On January 12 2012 21:05 Frogsox wrote:
I hope someone gives him a shot, because his hard work and dedication is admirable. However, I agree with eSahara's move to remove him from their roster (if not all the stated reasons) if I look at it from a management position given that he's under performing as a player and has failed to make any breakthroughs in a long time.

So you support them not doing their work(=supporting their player) and instead of doing reasonable things(getting him out of korea to play in tournaments foreigners usually play in, like playhems, go4sc ipl, dreamhack etc)?

You gotta admit that it's pretty dumb from eSahara to do that. Because their reasoning is that he didn't do well in GSL while 99% of the foreigners don't do well in GSL yet they stay in teams and get paid and have sponsorships.


I think that's kind of a leap to make. We don't really know the story behind cArn and eSahara with regards to his long term stay in Korea. Had the team forced him to stay in Korea to play there and try to get exposure for the team then I might be inclined to agree with you. Had cArn wanted to stay in Korea and showed a reluctance to come back to Europe (either in the short term or for a more permanent stay) then that's another situation. However, we can only speculate and I'm not really interested in doing that. Could eSahara encouraged cArn to come back and stay in Europe and represent them in that region? Probably. But I don't think flying cArn back and forth from Korea is really an option for the team since that flight pattern is expensive and time consuming and not many teams have the resources to fly someone like cArn (he sure doesn't have the exposure or fame factor that Idra/Naniwa/HuK have) around the world to do this.


Show nested quote +
On January 12 2012 21:19 hewley wrote:
On January 12 2012 21:05 KeksX wrote:
On January 12 2012 21:02 Gevna wrote:
I don't understand your reaction, since eSahara is not a charitable association, I don't see why they have to keep paying a player who is not performing well. I don't want to diss cArn, but eSahara does not deserve flame for this. They deserve it more for naama's flight ticket.

What if naama fails, too? Does he get kicked out of the team? Or do they keep him because he had success in NA/EU? What if carn stayed in EU/NA and didn't go to korea?

So many open questions, overall bad decision by eSahara and lack of proper organization for them. They should've just moved him to EU/NA to play in online tournaments and all that instead of focusing only on the GSL.


But what if cArn refused to go to EU/NA? As far as I know, he always wanted to stay in Korea. At the moment, he is just a random ladder player, who doesn't provide eSahara with any exposure...


Well but if cArn had stubbornly wanted to stay in Korea and not try his luck elsewhere then eSahara could just say that and not make up this stuff where he doesn't have motivation etc, because thats just a weird ...lie?

And I think they could arrange something so that cArn could stay in EU/NA long time if they could do that for him in KR.


Like I said, they probably could have arranged for cArn to stay in the EU/NA, but all signs point to cArn being the one who's stubbornly maintaining that he wishes to stay in Korea and practice there. It's not as simple as saying they could have done it and therefore they are wrong for cArn not doing it.
Agnosthar
Profile Joined August 2010
631 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-12 12:29:24
January 12 2012 12:28 GMT
#64
Completely understandable by eSahara, I'm shocked it didn't happen sooner.
As for cArn, I totally respect someone willing to go to extremes to make their dream happen. But doesn't he have any people around him advising him? Moving to Korea is something I think players should only do when they can't improve much on their own server, see NaNiwa. If a player does move to Korea, they need backing from a team to make sure they're given the best possible practice conditions to maximise the effectiveness of time spent in Korea. Whatever your stance is on cArn, you'll find it difficult to argue he's had good practice partners/schedule whilst being in Korea.

cArn should have cut his losses and moved on a long time ago.
Ragoo
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany2773 Posts
January 12 2012 12:34 GMT
#65
Well it's understandable. With all the nice players they have cArn is... just not good enough.

GL in the future cArn.
Member of TPW mapmaking team/// twitter.com/Ragoo_ /// "goody represents border between explainable reason and supernatural" Cloud
Badfatpanda
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States9719 Posts
January 12 2012 12:40 GMT
#66
I really like cArn and I think it's cool that he's still trying to make it in the GSL but it's been sooooo long now and the sole reason for him to be in Korea is to compete in the GSL. If you're not at a high enough skill level to at least play in the qualifiers, how efficient has your time been spent in Korea? I agree with their decision but I really hope he finds another team and finally gets into code A.
Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy. -Beethoven | Mech isn't a build, it's a way of life. -MajOr | Charlie.Sheen: "What is sarcastic, kids who have no courage to fight?" | #TerranPride #yolo #swag -Naama after 2-0'ing MC at HSC VI
Rekrul
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Korea (South)17174 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-12 12:41:46
January 12 2012 12:40 GMT
#67
if i were a team i'd expect my player to just sack up and go take the beating even even if my player was going in with 0 confidence in his chance to qualify, all about experience yo (but at the same time it's frustrating and annoying to do something u have 0 confidence in lol)

and wtf, there needs to be a subforum for 'x player joins x team' or 'x player leaves x team'

10 new threads a day with this bs
why so 진지해?
Longshank
Profile Joined March 2010
1648 Posts
January 12 2012 12:46 GMT
#68
On January 12 2012 21:09 KeksX wrote:
So you support them not doing their work(=supporting their player)? and instead of doing reasonable things(getting him out of korea to play in tournaments foreigners usually play in, like playhems, go4sc ipl, dreamhack etc) they just drop him for good?

You gotta admit that it's pretty dumb from eSahara to do that. Because their reasoning is that he didn't do well in GSL while 99% of the foreigners don't do well in GSL yet they stay in teams and get paid and have sponsorships.


It's anything but unreasonable for eSahara not to send Carn to foreign events. It's expensive and he has not once shown that he's capable of competing even in the foreign scene. They provide him with a good practice environment and until he starts to show something in online cups or what have you, you can't expect them to send him around the world.

As for online cups, he's free and probably encouraged to enter them but chooses not to. That's his decission.
MetalLobster
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada532 Posts
January 12 2012 12:46 GMT
#69
I can understand from eSahara's point of view on why they would drop cArn, but I cannot help but feel terrible because he has put so much into going to Korea to compete. I feel like if he had a solid support from a Korean team then he would be in GSL by now, but what do I know.

Best of luck in the future cArn.
NuclearJudas
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
6546 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-12 12:49:35
January 12 2012 12:49 GMT
#70
What a shame. I wish him luck in the future.
Life is like Tetris. Your errors pile up but your accomplishments disappear. - Robert Ohlén | http://railroaddiary.wordpress.com/ - My words about stuff.
MHT
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1026 Posts
January 12 2012 12:57 GMT
#71
Sad story, his been there so long without success. Hope he either moves on with his life or just hangs on and puts all his dedication into it to become better.
WArped
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom4845 Posts
January 12 2012 12:57 GMT
#72
I remember this guy from the beta, sucks he has been trying so hard but cannot quite get over that line. Hope he finds motivation to keep going.
warshop
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada490 Posts
January 12 2012 12:59 GMT
#73
On January 12 2012 21:24 zere wrote:
And this has nothing to do with that. Yes, I suppose they were not happy with his results, and therefore probably wanted him gone for that.
Which has nothing to do with what I tried to point out. I'm already past that. As Aphasie pointed out, it really feels like this serves as an excuse to kick him out. The wording of this news ("plus que délicate", "expulsé de la GOM house,", "très décevants", "manque de motivation") is a very straight-forward effort to discredit cArn, and that's what tips me off here. I feel this is inappropriate, a disgrace.


It feels like the parting wasn't mutual (as if : eSahara didn't negotiate with cArn). That is what I find somewhat disappointing. If you are going to invest into a player, at least try to make it work.

And no, seeing as cArn learned about RTS games a year ago, I think it's safe to say it takes more than a year to achieve a higher level of mechanics.
cyclone25
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Romania3344 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-12 13:05:34
January 12 2012 13:01 GMT
#74
This all happens because of Artosis! + Show Spoiler +
<3 Artosis btw

He hyped Carn during the first GSL, when Carn wasn't even a master league player. Carn got a small fan base, and this is the only reason he got in a team.

He trained a lot and he's still far from being a top player. I'm not sure what his background is, but you need at least 2-3 years of RTS experience to become a top player.

With eSahara adding more players, they probably had to make a decision here. They made a honest post about it and people are raging at them ... next time they should just write a fake statement without any details at all.

Edit: Carn made a bad decision to go and train in Korea at his skill level. Until you're GM on EU or US, there's no reason to do that. There are lots of players below GM level who train daily as hard as Carn, and they get no attention at all.

If there's anyone to blame for this situation, it's Carn. No one forced him to give his personal life and move to Korea.
ReaperX
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Hong Kong1758 Posts
January 12 2012 13:03 GMT
#75
On January 12 2012 20:49 RetoX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 12 2012 20:36 Tidus Mino wrote:
Your post is really bias, and it's obvious you are affiliated with eSahara. If he felt he would get crushed in the qualifiers, of course he would not want to try as to lose badly would be hugely demotivating.


He's not eSahara related, and cArn didn't practice past few month, we can't keep a player not showing any dedication.

Show nested quote +
On January 12 2012 20:42 gregnog wrote:
Dont worry they have.... Madelisk?


MaddeLisk trains very hard with Naama, Jimpo, Naugrim, Satiini, Check... and is really involved into eSahara's team life. And she's in the talented line up whereas cArn was considered as pro. I personally have a lot of respect for cArn, i consider him as a friend, but he didn't show anything good since he's in eSahara.

Dopani (RS manager/proS manager) told that cArn wasn't practincing and playing DotA. Based on his ladder rank, cArn is not training that hard for now.


If that's true... then that is shameful.
Artosis : Clide. idrA : Shut up.
ReaperX
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Hong Kong1758 Posts
January 12 2012 13:04 GMT
#76
On January 12 2012 22:01 cyclone25 wrote:
This all happens because of Artosis! + Show Spoiler +
<3 Artosis btw

He hyped Carn during the first GSL, when Carn wasn't even a master league player. Carn got a small fan base, and this is the only reason he got in a team.

He trained a lot and he's still far from being a top player. I'm not sure what his background is, but you need at least 2-3 years of RTS experience to become a top player.

With eSahara adding more players, they probably had to make a decision here. They made a honest post about it and people are raging at them ... next time they should just write a fake statement without any details at all.


Actually... HuK is a hard counter to what you said.
Artosis : Clide. idrA : Shut up.
Vildhjarta
Profile Joined September 2011
Sweden126 Posts
January 12 2012 13:05 GMT
#77
well there went the little respect I had for eSahara.
No man has ever been entirely and completely himself. Yet each one strives to become that, one in an awkward, the other in a more intelligent way, each as best he can. - Hermann Hesse, Demian
Shasta37
Profile Joined May 2011
United States70 Posts
January 12 2012 13:08 GMT
#78
On January 12 2012 20:34 RPR_Tempest wrote:
If that is honestly the reason they dropped him, then that's fucking bullshit. cArn is an incredibly hard working player. He decides not to attend ONE TIME and they drop him even though he's sacrificed everything to try and participate in GSL? What the fuck, eSahara.

EDIT: If you're going to be disrespectful and say shit like "Who cares, cArn has achieved nothing."

Read his blogs before you post.

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=299855
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=300320
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=301987


LMAO, really? They are a business. I'm pretty sure there are people who would love to be with eSahara, play games all day as a job and gladly compete at the qualifiers. Just because you "work hard" does not mean you deserve to be on a team. If the results aren't there what do you expect will happen? This is the case with all sports. The fact that he didn't go to the qualifier slaps eSahara in the face for supporting him while he plays Starcraft all day instead of work like the rest of us.

It's not like the qualifiers happen all the time. Being a pro-gamer implies that you compete and obtain sufficient results. cArn has failed the latter and now refuses to the former. Not much to be said here. Good move by eSahara.
Myles
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5162 Posts
January 12 2012 13:10 GMT
#79
On January 12 2012 22:01 cyclone25 wrote:
This all happens because of Artosis! + Show Spoiler +
<3 Artosis btw

He hyped Carn during the first GSL, when Carn wasn't even a master league player. Carn got a small fan base, and this is the only reason he got in a team.

He trained a lot and he's still far from being a top player. I'm not sure what his background is, but you need at least 2-3 years of RTS experience to become a top player.

With eSahara adding more players, they probably had to make a decision here. They made a honest post about it and people are raging at them ... next time they should just write a fake statement without any details at all.

Edit: Carn made a bad decision to go and train in Korea at his skill level. Until you're GM on EU or US, there's no reason to do that. There are lots of players below GM level who train daily as hard as Carn, and they get no attention at all.

If there's anyone to blame for this situation, it's Carn. No one forced him to give his personal life and move to Korea.

To say you released cArn because he lacks motivation seems dishonest. You can say he hasn't produced results, or hasn't really been apart of the team, or doesn't have the talent, but to question his dedication seems insane. Perhaps his dedication has waned recently, but not going to GSL qualifier because you're going to get stomped doesn't seem very conclusive.
Moderator
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
January 12 2012 13:13 GMT
#80
It does not matter what he does sacrifice. His passion does not matter in terms of being a progamer. If he thinks so low of himself or just very high of others and that makes him not even try, he's just not progamer material.

Its not about not falling, its about rising again. GL to cArn, I don't understand his decision.
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
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