cArn was the first eSahara player along with FuRy. After being expulsed from the GOM house in order to make place for the FXO team, cArn has competed in the ESWC and PPSL without success. Lately he was training at the ProS House, but he refused to attend the lastest GSL qualifier because he though his skill level was not high enougth to even try.
eSahara sees that as a terrible lack of motivation, thus has choose to part ways with cArn.
I think this is a sad news, even if cArn has never reach any success, his sacrifice and motivation are inspiring to all other gamers. I don't understand why he didn't even tried to qualify... I hope he stays in Korea and manage to be on GSL one day...although i totally understand the position of eSahara, this is not an acceptable behavior for a progamer.
edit : i'm getting a lot of shit so let me clarify some points : - i have nothing to do with eSahara. - i love cArn and i think his dedication is amasing. (yes i read his blogs to, and i love them) - I didn't want to make it look like he achieved nothing, but truth is, he is playing full time since beta, he is aiming for high goals and didn't succeed yet even if he came close.
On January 12 2012 20:36 Tidus Mino wrote: Your post is really bias, and it's obvious you are affiliated with eSahara. If he felt he would get crushed in the qualifiers, of course he would not want to try as to lose badly would be hugely demotivating.
He's not eSahara related, and cArn didn't practice past few month, we can't keep a player not showing any dedication.
On January 12 2012 20:42 gregnog wrote: Dont worry they have.... Madelisk?
MaddeLisk trains very hard with Naama, Jimpo, Naugrim, Satiini, Check... and is really involved into eSahara's team life. And she's in the talented line up whereas cArn was considered as pro. I personally have a lot of respect for cArn, i consider him as a friend, but he didn't show anything good since he's in eSahara.
Dopani (RS manager/proS manager) told that cArn wasn't practincing and playing DotA. Based on his ladder rank, cArn is not training that hard for now.
On January 12 2012 23:18 cArn- wrote: I'm bit tired of people not knowing a quarter of what is up to jump on conclusion, I didn't want to say anything about all this but if people are to say things that are not true I guess I'll have to shed some lights.
I'm gonna be very short as it was something I was gonna talk about in the rest of my blogs anyway. So long story short, I joined eSahara, they couldn't provide me with the possibility to pratice since I left the GOM house, so I wasn't able to practice for 5 or 6 months. Guess what, when you can't practice for this long, you're not gonna have any results.
For the qualifiers I had a bit over a month of practice at the ProS house, but I was still not in good shape enough to be able to win it, and if I were to go to the qualifiers it would be to win. It wasn't going to happen this time, and I had more than enough experience playing in every single one of the previous qualifiers (except the one when I was in Europe for ESWC).
There also was no real coverage whatsover of the qualifiers this time so it's not like there was any exposure to get out of it for the team, instead of continuing the disappointments that were ESWC and PPSL I would rather get my skill level and my confidence in my game back, improve as much as possible and be ready to win the next qualifier.
I just find really disappointing that eSahara tries to discredit me like this, that they interpret me not going as a lack of motivation, sure no problem that's what they think, but to then try to make people think I'm not practising is just not something you do. Especially since I choose to stick with them when I had better options just because I felt they were going in the right direction and had the right ideas and that we could build something together. I was wrong, it was just talking. I could have things to say about what went wrong with eSahara, but I'm not gonna be that guy who crosses the line even though they went out of their way to spread misinformation about me.
It's fine, I know what I want, people who know me and know the details about all of this are supporting me, and those who don't have all the informations have to keep this in mind : they don't have all the informations.
So thanks to those who are still supporting me. The ones who are doubting me it's fine, it's just a matter of time before you are made wrong.
I know it, people who know me know it, eSahara knows it.
Just next time ... say it how it is : no results. Which I obviously understand, but that's all there is to it.
I'm not going into further details now, everything is gonna be covered in my next blogs when I get to that point. As for this issue there is not much more to say.
If that is honestly the reason they dropped him, then that's fucking bullshit. cArn is an incredibly hard working player. He decides not to attend ONE TIME and they drop him even though he's sacrificed everything to try and participate in GSL? What the fuck, eSahara.
EDIT: If you're going to be disrespectful and say shit like "Who cares, cArn has achieved nothing."
On January 12 2012 20:36 GTR wrote: so he gets kicked out because he decided to not attend a qualifier because he didn't feel prepared? lol what a joke of an organisation. first the pepe thing now this.
Completely agree. This guy has been grinding his ass out with almost no money whatsoever trying to live a dream and lol, "lack of motivation". what a joke.
cArn's been in korea for ages now, granted he has little results, shame to see him go. I like to think his time spent in Korea translates to how much he's been training, or at least his dedication to be the best, but I honestly can't make that definitive statement.
Following what has been interpreted as a lack of motivation to eSahara decided to dispose of Carn, who was not involved in leagues per team (due to the lag caused by the different servers)
(Google translate)
When you consider that: 1) He's not had success in the non-GSL tournaments he's participated in 2) He decided not to participate in GSL qualifiers 3) He's not taking part in any team events for eSahara
You can understand why they feel he's not worth keeping on. The motivation thing is probably what tipped them over the edge.
No disrespect to cArn, he's been in Korea trying for a long time, but if you decide not to even bother trying in GSL qualifiers because you don't think you will make it, what incentive is there for the team to keep him on, when he's not even really a participating member of the team?
Dudes, cArn has achieved nothing in this game. Who gives a shit if he sacrifices something to go to and try to be professional sc2 player, shit happens, no talent, move on.
On January 12 2012 20:36 Tidus Mino wrote: Your post is really bias, and it's obvious you are affiliated with eSahara. If he felt he would get crushed in the qualifiers, of course he would not want to try as to lose badly would be hugely demotivating.
He's not eSahara related, and cArn didn't practice past few month, we can't keep a player not showing any dedication.
On January 12 2012 20:42 gregnog wrote: Dont worry they have.... Madelisk?
MaddeLisk trains very hard with Naama, Jimpo, Naugrim, Satiini, Check... and is really involved into eSahara's team life. And she's in the talented line up whereas cArn was considered as pro. I personally have a lot of respect for cArn, i consider him as a friend, but he didn't show anything good since he's in eSahara.
Dopani (RS manager/proS manager) told that cArn wasn't practincing and playing DotA. Based on his ladder rank, cArn is not training that hard for now.
On January 12 2012 20:47 Detrimentally wrote: this is disguting. eSahara has lost my support and I hope they fail (or waste all of their money on more fake players).
Completely unacceptable. What about all the players on the team now? You're a worse person than the people you dislike if you want them to just fall by the wayside because you're angry.
On January 12 2012 20:47 Detrimentally wrote: this is disguting. eSahara has lost my support and I hope they fail (or waste all of their money on more fake players).
^ Why is it disgusting to dispose of a player that acheives nothing in the game and isn't even going to try and qualify for stuff and represent his team? You want them to pay him to practice forever for no good reason? lol seriously
Well, I'm sorry, but when you compare cArn, who -dedicated his last 16 months completely to SC2 -leaving his family and friends -travels around the world for tournaments, Korea, China, etc. -lives on his own in a foreign country -passed on a ticket to the frikkin Olympics
to an organization that -failed to background-check the identity and whereabouts of a newly signed player -failed to correctly fill out a simple form for a flight -does not have the faith to listen to one of their players who has 1,5 years of first-hand experience of what they are about to do themselves
then I ask myself which one of the aforementioned parties suffers from a lack of motivation.
On January 12 2012 20:36 Tidus Mino wrote: Your post is really bias, and it's obvious you are affiliated with eSahara. If he felt he would get crushed in the qualifiers, of course he would not want to try as to lose badly would be hugely demotivating.
LOL i have nothing to do with eSahara, i just don't like the fact that there is so much hate around this team. I was very sceptical about this team when they started but they are looking to be a team that is there to stay.
Thing is, going to the qualifier is just one day, even if you don't think you will qualify, it's always good to take the tournament experience and i don't understand why he wouldn't even try.
Yeah, i feel more that they needed an excuse to drop a non-successful player and decided to pin it on "lack of motivation". Which is by itself a bad move, if you cant be honest enough to tell the world that player X doesn't meet the standards and requirements of your team, it sends mixed signals. And obviously it's not a fact, seeing how cArn has stayed in korea for over a year now (?) and is still going at it. Bad handling by e-Sahara again. Be honest about what you want for your team.
Also, mad props to cArn for staying out there and trying to live the dream. I will always have immense respect for someone that tries as hard as he has, and also kept on going despite setbacks (like being kicked out of GOM house). Hope you will find a better team in the future cArn!
Peace out
Edit: If what Retox said while i was writing this post, about him not practicing the last month its a completely fair decision. If its true that is. We'll see if cArn responds to it. There's also a lot of other factors to consider. Money they spent and how much cArn took out of his own pocket. We dont know every number in the equation here.
If Carn really practises that much and is not good enough to compete with code A players, then he really needs a personal coach cause something about his training style is not effective enough.
And Pro-gaming is a profession guys. You don't do well, you get fired. Don't see why you eSahara gets so much hate.
Allagedly he hasnt been practicing(see first page) and has zero success outside of gsl. Couple that with him unwilling to participate in the qualifiers what else would be the reason to keep him on the team? He does not make interviews or great PR he is just a player.
Yeah he's a nice guy and I was hoping he'd break through, but I understand esahara's decision.
you shouldnt bash eSahara, cause i mean, they have a buisness to run. They pay him i guess, and if they dont feel that hes putting enough effort in it. They will part way with him.
On January 12 2012 20:42 AndAgain wrote: Well, if he's not good enough to even attend a GSL qualifier, it's probably rational to let him go. Work ethic isn't the only standard.
I agree with this. In Korea it's GSL or nothing, it makes no sense to pay for a player there who doesn't try to get in to it. Especially since he's not(very rarely) attending foreign events.
Still, quite a shitty statement from eSahara's part.
On January 12 2012 20:39 Technique wrote: First get good then move to Korea is the story to learn here...
Uh, no it's not. In fact, it's completely irrelevant.
It kinda is. I understand how you would be depressed and demotivated being crushed first round qualifier after qualifier. Whereas in Europe he could have entered some small cups and maybe have a podium finish and be happy with his team. Korea is not for everyone folks. Foreigners three times as good as cArn have failed utterly countless times.
On January 12 2012 20:54 GoSuChicken wrote: you shouldnt bash eSahara, cause i mean, they have a buisness to run. They pay him i guess, and if they dont feel that hes putting enough effort in it. They will part way with him.
From my understanding cArn's been in Korea on his own dime for quite a while now, even before eSahara. How much could they possibly have lost from a relatively no-name guy who didn't feel good enough yet to represent them for a qualifier? Im not even sure how eSahara was even supporting cArn other than maybe a salary to help him out?
On January 12 2012 20:54 Ruscour wrote: edit: i was quite mean.
best of luck to cArn, keep at it...as long as he's still practicing hard i do not understand this decision.
Why should he keep at it? He has practiced over a year full time and still isnt that good. He seriously should stop trying to play this game professionally, he will never be top player.
Carn is not good enough to compete in the GSL. Yes Carn dedicated a lot to SC2 but its been a failure. If you try to be a pro you know the risks of that path, so we shouldnt really feel bad for him. Time to quit and get a real job carn.
And for everyone burning eSahara, do we really know everything to judge this situation? Is there actually any real information on how dedicated carn was in his practice?
On January 12 2012 20:54 Ruscour wrote: edit: i was quite mean.
best of luck to cArn, keep at it...as long as he's still practicing hard i do not understand this decision.
Why should he keep at it? He has practiced over a year full time and still isnt that good. He seriously should stop trying to play this game professionally, he will never be top player.
Not with that attitude. Would you say the same about Jinro?
On January 12 2012 20:54 GoSuChicken wrote: you shouldnt bash eSahara, cause i mean, they have a buisness to run. They pay him i guess, and if they dont feel that hes putting enough effort in it. They will part way with him.
From my understanding cArn's been in Korea on his own dime for quite a while now, even before eSahara. How much could they possibly have lost from a relatively no-name guy who didn't feel good enough yet to represent them for a qualifier? Im not even sure how eSahara was even supporting cArn other than maybe a salary to help him out?
He went to ESWC and PPSL. I'm guessing eSahara financed those trips (at least the ESWC one, the people who donated to IGN following the Gus debacle probably financed cArn's PPSL trip)...
They have no reason to get hate. Teams don't support players out of charity, it's good if they do, but they are not bound to. He's been there for god says how long, doesn't really improve as far as results go, doesn't take part in team games. It's an effing job, you have to help your team too, it's a contract... Even when in France he doesn't win games/go out of group play in french tournaments... What do you expect ? Next "appearance" would be next code A qualifiers in what ? more than 2 months ?
How long do you think a company would keep me if I worked very hard but failed in pretty much everything I was given to do or even wouldn't show up to some important thing ? They already supported him quite long. It's good if he's trying hard, but my feeling is if it still doesn't work after so long, you ARE gonna run into problems. He's drama free unlike desRow, that's a good thing, but imo both of them are in pretty much the same situation.
ugh again drama, and again carn appears, tragic figure yes, but players need to give bread also not only teams, if hes not willing to play gsl qualifiers other events its basically like saying he doesnt exist in korea, and for sponsors its very bad, if your player doesnt exist. His personal drammas were already talked about many times months ago, and same pattern emerged almost any time.
I don't understand your reaction, since eSahara is not a charitable association, I don't see why they have to keep paying a player who is not performing well. I don't want to diss cArn, but eSahara does not deserve flame for this. They deserve it more for naama's flight ticket.
I don't understand the support for carn. Hard work = results and only in the most extreme circumstances is that untrue. For whatever reason, carn hasn't been working hard whether he doesn't want to or he just couldn't do it due to personal reasons. He's given me no reason to root for him, no sense of inspiration from his journey thus far.
From a business perspective, why would you keep someone like that? And its not just the fact that he has little achievements - its that he doesn't have any at all. I don't see how why any team would justify keeping him.
On January 12 2012 20:51 zere wrote: Well, I'm sorry, but when you compare cArn, who -dedicated his last 16 months completely to SC2 -leaving his family and friends -travels around the world for tournaments, Korea, China, etc. -lives on his own in a foreign country -passed on a ticket to the frikkin Olympics
to an organization that -failed to background-check the identity and whereabouts of a newly signed player -failed to correctly fill out a simple form for a flight -does not have the faith to listen to one of their players who has 1,5 years of first-hand experience of what they are about to do themselves
then I ask myself which one of the aforementioned parties suffers from a lack of motivation.
What horrible faith this poor cArn had. Being able to focus fully on SC2 for more than a year, traveling the globe and seeing exotic and exciting places, living in a foreign country. Everyone I know would gladly sacrifice not seeing their friends and family as often in order to get such an amazing opportunity.
Regarding eSahara - how do a failed background-check and a form mix-up relate to lack of motivation? Oh my god! They can't even run a government size bureaucracy and make human mistakes! Atrocious!
I don't know much about the details of this all, like the rest of us, but if you look at any sport, the only thing that counts is performance / potential. From what I read, cArn showed neither.
On January 12 2012 21:02 Gevna wrote: I don't understand your reaction, since eSahara is not a charitable association, I don't see why they have to keep paying a player who is not performing well. I don't want to diss cArn, but eSahara does not deserve flame for this. They deserve it more for naama's flight ticket.
What if naama fails, too? Does he get kicked out of the team? Or do they keep him because he had success in NA/EU? What if carn stayed in EU/NA and didn't go to korea?
So many open questions, overall bad decision by eSahara and lack of proper organization for them. They should've just moved him to EU/NA to play in online tournaments and all that instead of focusing only on the GSL.
On January 12 2012 20:54 Ruscour wrote: edit: i was quite mean.
best of luck to cArn, keep at it...as long as he's still practicing hard i do not understand this decision.
Why should he keep at it? He has practiced over a year full time and still isnt that good. He seriously should stop trying to play this game professionally, he will never be top player.
tyler said on sotg that to get good at bw, you had to spend the best part of 2 years in korea. and that was with a game which apart from for the top 2/3 people had been "solved" where you could go there and copy an s class and just do that and win.
sc2 has noone you can copy and is changing so fast its not unreasonable for it to take longer. maybe hes not trying to gimmick his way to 1 gsl win but rather get good so he can play at a top level for a long time, maybe he wont ever make it, but theres no need to be a douche about a guy for trying
On January 12 2012 20:46 mazqo wrote: Dudes, cArn has achieved nothing in this game. Who gives a shit if he sacrifices something to go to and try to be professional sc2 player, shit happens, no talent, move on.
While that sounds a little bit harsh, I agree with the sentiment. I do admire the dedication that cArn has displayed throughout his career with eSahara (unless that statement about his lack of practice leading into the latest round of qualifiers is true) and he's been extremely disciplined in his approach. However, if I am paying someone to play for my (hypothetical) team and represent my sponsors on the international stage then I wouldn't be particularly happy with my return on investment in a player like cArn. He simply hasn't shown the kind of improvement or results necessary to warrant a spot on a team in eSahara's position considering he's been playing on the Korean server non-stop for a very long time.
I understand that conditions haven't always been great for cArn, he hasn't had a solid team house structure like a lot of the other foreign players who've come to Korea. Also he's been trying to get through one of the hardest tournaments in the world in order to participate in the GSL proper. I have the feeling that a team like Complexity (not necessarily Complexity, but just an example) could give cArn a shot though considering they have a partnership in Korea and a team house environment where cArn would be able to train much more effectively than he has in the post. Given his dedication to staying in Korea in the long term I would think a team would take a gamble on his skill level improving should he be able to train in a good environment compared to his previous situations.
I hope someone gives him a shot, because his hard work and dedication is admirable. However, I agree with eSahara's move to remove him from their roster (if not all the stated reasons) if I look at it from a management position given that he's under performing as a player and has failed to make any breakthroughs in a long time.
On January 12 2012 20:54 Ruscour wrote: edit: i was quite mean.
best of luck to cArn, keep at it...as long as he's still practicing hard i do not understand this decision.
Why should he keep at it? He has practiced over a year full time and still isnt that good. He seriously should stop trying to play this game professionally, he will never be top player.
tyler said on sotg that to get good at bw, you had to spend the best part of 2 years in korea. and that was with a game which apart from for the top 2/3 people had been "solved" where you could go there and copy an s class and just do that and win.
sc2 has noone you can copy and is changing so fast its not unreasonable for it to take longer. maybe hes not trying to gimmick his way to 1 gsl win but rather get good so he can play at a top level for a long time, maybe he wont ever make it, but theres no need to be a douche about a guy for trying
He's had over a year, and SC2 hasn't even been out for 2 years. If it takes 2 years to be one of th ebest at SC2, then it's impossible for anyone to be the best currently.
He's tried, and so far he hasn't succeeded, so eSahara are dropping him. Maybe the explanation/translation of the explanation isn't a good one, but it's something teams should consider doing more often. If players aren't performing where you expect/hope them to, and aren't contributing to the team, why keep them on the team?
On January 12 2012 21:05 Frogsox wrote: I hope someone gives him a shot, because his hard work and dedication is admirable. However, I agree with eSahara's move to remove him from their roster (if not all the stated reasons) if I look at it from a management position given that he's under performing as a player and has failed to make any breakthroughs in a long time.
So you support them not doing their work(=supporting their player)? and instead of doing reasonable things(getting him out of korea to play in tournaments foreigners usually play in, like playhems, go4sc ipl, dreamhack etc) they just drop him for good?
You gotta admit that it's pretty dumb from eSahara to do that. Because their reasoning is that he didn't do well in GSL while 99% of the foreigners don't do well in GSL yet they stay in teams and get paid and have sponsorships.
He's had over a year, and SC2 hasn't even been out for 2 years. If it takes 2 years to be one of th ebest at SC2, then it's impossible for anyone to be the best currently.
Thats not true. He was all on his own and not in a korean teamhouse. Yes he was in Korea, but he didn't have korean practice. Only playing on korean ladder doesn't do the whole job...
If I had a team I'd pick up cArn and look how he does in EU/NA. Way better than just saying "Oh you failed in GSL where the best of the best play and nearly every foreigner failed before with a few exceptions OMG YOU MUST BE SO BAD LOL NEWBIE!"...
On January 12 2012 20:54 Ruscour wrote: edit: i was quite mean.
best of luck to cArn, keep at it...as long as he's still practicing hard i do not understand this decision.
Why should he keep at it? He has practiced over a year full time and still isnt that good. He seriously should stop trying to play this game professionally, he will never be top player.
tyler said on sotg that to get good at bw, you had to spend the best part of 2 years in korea. and that was with a game which apart from for the top 2/3 people had been "solved" where you could go there and copy an s class and just do that and win.
sc2 has noone you can copy and is changing so fast its not unreasonable for it to take longer. maybe hes not trying to gimmick his way to 1 gsl win but rather get good so he can play at a top level for a long time, maybe he wont ever make it, but theres no need to be a douche about a guy for trying
That's because BW had established powerhouses. To make the A team you had to practice that much. Its not "practice for 2 years and you're gold!" Its practice for 2 years and catch up to the A teamers.
Some of you supporters are making some weird analogies including names like Jinro and naama. Carn and Jinro/naama are worlds apart, both in tournament achievements and popularity. Whats the benefit of keeping carn? I don't any benefits, so as a business you cut your losses and you try and move forward.
If carn really is a hard worker he'll be fine. But my guess is that hes not, that's why he hasn't made a splash on any level of competition and why he was dropped from his team.
On January 12 2012 20:54 Ruscour wrote: edit: i was quite mean.
best of luck to cArn, keep at it...as long as he's still practicing hard i do not understand this decision.
Why should he keep at it? He has practiced over a year full time and still isnt that good. He seriously should stop trying to play this game professionally, he will never be top player.
tyler said on sotg that to get good at bw, you had to spend the best part of 2 years in korea. and that was with a game which apart from for the top 2/3 people had been "solved" where you could go there and copy an s class and just do that and win.
sc2 has noone you can copy and is changing so fast its not unreasonable for it to take longer. maybe hes not trying to gimmick his way to 1 gsl win but rather get good so he can play at a top level for a long time, maybe he wont ever make it, but theres no need to be a douche about a guy for trying
Do you know how many players try to be good at in any competitive sport/game and devote their time to training so they could earn living doing that? Very many. The talented ones will be at the top and rest will fail. Good for cArn for trying, but how much time should he spend trying? 1 more year? maybe 5 more years? Sometimes its just better cut your losses and move on.
Oh, this is sad... I admired the guy, because he actually had the courage to go and do what he wanted, to pursue his dreams, no matter the odds. Wish he finds a new home soon. Sometimes, dedication goes further than actual skill.
On January 12 2012 21:05 Frogsox wrote: I hope someone gives him a shot, because his hard work and dedication is admirable. However, I agree with eSahara's move to remove him from their roster (if not all the stated reasons) if I look at it from a management position given that he's under performing as a player and has failed to make any breakthroughs in a long time.
So you support them not doing their work(=supporting their player) and instead of doing reasonable things(getting him out of korea to play in tournaments foreigners usually play in, like playhems, go4sc ipl, dreamhack etc)?
You gotta admit that it's pretty dumb from eSahara to do that. Because their reasoning is that he didn't do well in GSL while 99% of the foreigners don't do well in GSL yet they stay in teams and get paid and have sponsorships.
I think that's kind of a leap to make. We don't really know the story behind cArn and eSahara with regards to his long term stay in Korea. Had the team forced him to stay in Korea to play there and try to get exposure for the team then I might be inclined to agree with you. Had cArn wanted to stay in Korea and showed a reluctance to come back to Europe (either in the short term or for a more permanent stay) then that's another situation. However, we can only speculate and I'm not really interested in doing that. Could eSahara encouraged cArn to come back and stay in Europe and represent them in that region? Probably. But I don't think flying cArn back and forth from Korea is really an option for the team since that flight pattern is expensive and time consuming and not many teams have the resources to fly someone like cArn (he sure doesn't have the exposure or fame factor that Idra/Naniwa/HuK have) around the world to do this.
On January 12 2012 21:02 Gevna wrote: I don't understand your reaction, since eSahara is not a charitable association, I don't see why they have to keep paying a player who is not performing well. I don't want to diss cArn, but eSahara does not deserve flame for this. They deserve it more for naama's flight ticket.
What if naama fails, too? Does he get kicked out of the team? Or do they keep him because he had success in NA/EU? What if carn stayed in EU/NA and didn't go to korea?
So many open questions, overall bad decision by eSahara and lack of proper organization for them. They should've just moved him to EU/NA to play in online tournaments and all that instead of focusing only on the GSL.
But what if cArn refused to go to EU/NA? As far as I know, he always wanted to stay in Korea. At the moment, he is just a random ladder player, who doesn't provide eSahara with any exposure...
On January 12 2012 21:05 Frogsox wrote: I hope someone gives him a shot, because his hard work and dedication is admirable. However, I agree with eSahara's move to remove him from their roster (if not all the stated reasons) if I look at it from a management position given that he's under performing as a player and has failed to make any breakthroughs in a long time.
So you support them not doing their work(=supporting their player) and instead of doing reasonable things(getting him out of korea to play in tournaments foreigners usually play in, like playhems, go4sc ipl, dreamhack etc)?
You gotta admit that it's pretty dumb from eSahara to do that. Because their reasoning is that he didn't do well in GSL while 99% of the foreigners don't do well in GSL yet they stay in teams and get paid and have sponsorships.
I think that's kind of a leap to make. We don't really know the story behind cArn and eSahara with regards to his long term stay in Korea. Had the team forced him to stay in Korea to play there and try to get exposure for the team then I might be inclined to agree with you. Had cArn wanted to stay in Korea and showed a reluctance to come back to Europe (either in the short term or for a more permanent stay) then that's another situation. However, we can only speculate and I'm not really interested in doing that. Could eSahara encouraged cArn to come back and stay in Europe and represent them in that region? Probably. But I don't think flying cArn back and forth from Korea is really an option for the team since that flight pattern is expensive and time consuming and not many teams have the resources to fly someone like cArn (he sure doesn't have the exposure or fame factor that Idra/Naniwa/HuK have) around the world to do this.
On January 12 2012 21:02 Gevna wrote: I don't understand your reaction, since eSahara is not a charitable association, I don't see why they have to keep paying a player who is not performing well. I don't want to diss cArn, but eSahara does not deserve flame for this. They deserve it more for naama's flight ticket.
What if naama fails, too? Does he get kicked out of the team? Or do they keep him because he had success in NA/EU? What if carn stayed in EU/NA and didn't go to korea?
So many open questions, overall bad decision by eSahara and lack of proper organization for them. They should've just moved him to EU/NA to play in online tournaments and all that instead of focusing only on the GSL.
But what if cArn refused to go to EU/NA? As far as I know, he always wanted to stay in Korea. At the moment, he is just a random ladder player, who doesn't provide eSahara with any exposure...
Well but if cArn had stubbornly wanted to stay in Korea and not try his luck elsewhere then eSahara could just say that and not make up this stuff where he doesn't have motivation etc, because thats just a weird ...lie?
And I think they could arrange something so that cArn could stay in EU/NA long time if they could do that for him in KR.
I do admire the fact that he's still trying to make it in Korea but from a business point of view, why should they keep him? He has been there since the beginning and achieved absolutely nothing in-game, not even in foreign tournaments. And now that he's apparently not even good enough to participate in a qualifier (remember Cella even made it to the finals of one a while back) then there's just no sense in keeping a player like that, especially since eSahara wants to make an impact in Korea NOW.
On January 12 2012 20:47 Detrimentally wrote: this is disguting. eSahara has lost my support and I hope they fail (or waste all of their money on more fake players).
MORE HATE PLS...
And you think you're not disgusting ? which pro wouldn't spend one day in the qualifier just to test themselves ? if the goal is to pass the qualifier then every qualifier should be an opportunity to do better than last one, especially considering there's less qualifier in 2012 than before.
Based on the information out right now I agree with eSahara here. cArn, though a great guy, was their player in Korea. His main attraction is the GSL and if he's not participating, but still living in Korea then they're basically paying him (assuming they provide financial support?) to sit there and live the life in Korea. If what they, and according to them the proS manager, say is true, that he's been playing DotA instead of practicing/participating in the qualifiers then I understand it even more. There's very little reason not to show up to qualifiers just to try, especially if you're living nearby.
And this has nothing to do with that. Yes, I suppose they were not happy with his results, and therefore probably wanted him gone for that. Which has nothing to do with what I tried to point out. I'm already past that. As Aphasie pointed out, it really feels like this serves as an excuse to kick him out. The wording of this news ("plus que délicate", "expulsé de la GOM house,", "très décevants", "manque de motivation") is a very straight-forward effort to discredit cArn, and that's what tips me off here. I feel this is inappropriate, a disgrace.
Hope cArn will find a new team, I've read his blogs about Korea, and that was one of the most intresting / inspiring esport stories I've read the last year
On January 12 2012 21:05 Frogsox wrote: I hope someone gives him a shot, because his hard work and dedication is admirable. However, I agree with eSahara's move to remove him from their roster (if not all the stated reasons) if I look at it from a management position given that he's under performing as a player and has failed to make any breakthroughs in a long time.
So you support them not doing their work(=supporting their player) and instead of doing reasonable things(getting him out of korea to play in tournaments foreigners usually play in, like playhems, go4sc ipl, dreamhack etc)?
You gotta admit that it's pretty dumb from eSahara to do that. Because their reasoning is that he didn't do well in GSL while 99% of the foreigners don't do well in GSL yet they stay in teams and get paid and have sponsorships.
I think that's kind of a leap to make. We don't really know the story behind cArn and eSahara with regards to his long term stay in Korea. Had the team forced him to stay in Korea to play there and try to get exposure for the team then I might be inclined to agree with you. Had cArn wanted to stay in Korea and showed a reluctance to come back to Europe (either in the short term or for a more permanent stay) then that's another situation. However, we can only speculate and I'm not really interested in doing that. Could eSahara encouraged cArn to come back and stay in Europe and represent them in that region? Probably. But I don't think flying cArn back and forth from Korea is really an option for the team since that flight pattern is expensive and time consuming and not many teams have the resources to fly someone like cArn (he sure doesn't have the exposure or fame factor that Idra/Naniwa/HuK have) around the world to do this.
On January 12 2012 21:02 Gevna wrote: I don't understand your reaction, since eSahara is not a charitable association, I don't see why they have to keep paying a player who is not performing well. I don't want to diss cArn, but eSahara does not deserve flame for this. They deserve it more for naama's flight ticket.
What if naama fails, too? Does he get kicked out of the team? Or do they keep him because he had success in NA/EU? What if carn stayed in EU/NA and didn't go to korea?
So many open questions, overall bad decision by eSahara and lack of proper organization for them. They should've just moved him to EU/NA to play in online tournaments and all that instead of focusing only on the GSL.
But what if cArn refused to go to EU/NA? As far as I know, he always wanted to stay in Korea. At the moment, he is just a random ladder player, who doesn't provide eSahara with any exposure...
Well but if cArn had stubbornly wanted to stay in Korea and not try his luck elsewhere then eSahara could just say that and not make up this stuff where he doesn't have motivation etc, because thats just a weird ...lie?
And I think they could arrange something so that cArn could stay in EU/NA long time if they could do that for him in KR.
Like I said, they probably could have arranged for cArn to stay in the EU/NA, but all signs point to cArn being the one who's stubbornly maintaining that he wishes to stay in Korea and practice there. It's not as simple as saying they could have done it and therefore they are wrong for cArn not doing it.
Completely understandable by eSahara, I'm shocked it didn't happen sooner. As for cArn, I totally respect someone willing to go to extremes to make their dream happen. But doesn't he have any people around him advising him? Moving to Korea is something I think players should only do when they can't improve much on their own server, see NaNiwa. If a player does move to Korea, they need backing from a team to make sure they're given the best possible practice conditions to maximise the effectiveness of time spent in Korea. Whatever your stance is on cArn, you'll find it difficult to argue he's had good practice partners/schedule whilst being in Korea.
cArn should have cut his losses and moved on a long time ago.
I really like cArn and I think it's cool that he's still trying to make it in the GSL but it's been sooooo long now and the sole reason for him to be in Korea is to compete in the GSL. If you're not at a high enough skill level to at least play in the qualifiers, how efficient has your time been spent in Korea? I agree with their decision but I really hope he finds another team and finally gets into code A.
if i were a team i'd expect my player to just sack up and go take the beating even even if my player was going in with 0 confidence in his chance to qualify, all about experience yo (but at the same time it's frustrating and annoying to do something u have 0 confidence in lol)
and wtf, there needs to be a subforum for 'x player joins x team' or 'x player leaves x team'
On January 12 2012 21:09 KeksX wrote: So you support them not doing their work(=supporting their player)? and instead of doing reasonable things(getting him out of korea to play in tournaments foreigners usually play in, like playhems, go4sc ipl, dreamhack etc) they just drop him for good?
You gotta admit that it's pretty dumb from eSahara to do that. Because their reasoning is that he didn't do well in GSL while 99% of the foreigners don't do well in GSL yet they stay in teams and get paid and have sponsorships.
It's anything but unreasonable for eSahara not to send Carn to foreign events. It's expensive and he has not once shown that he's capable of competing even in the foreign scene. They provide him with a good practice environment and until he starts to show something in online cups or what have you, you can't expect them to send him around the world.
As for online cups, he's free and probably encouraged to enter them but chooses not to. That's his decission.
I can understand from eSahara's point of view on why they would drop cArn, but I cannot help but feel terrible because he has put so much into going to Korea to compete. I feel like if he had a solid support from a Korean team then he would be in GSL by now, but what do I know.
Sad story, his been there so long without success. Hope he either moves on with his life or just hangs on and puts all his dedication into it to become better.
On January 12 2012 21:24 zere wrote: And this has nothing to do with that. Yes, I suppose they were not happy with his results, and therefore probably wanted him gone for that. Which has nothing to do with what I tried to point out. I'm already past that. As Aphasie pointed out, it really feels like this serves as an excuse to kick him out. The wording of this news ("plus que délicate", "expulsé de la GOM house,", "très décevants", "manque de motivation") is a very straight-forward effort to discredit cArn, and that's what tips me off here. I feel this is inappropriate, a disgrace.
It feels like the parting wasn't mutual (as if : eSahara didn't negotiate with cArn). That is what I find somewhat disappointing. If you are going to invest into a player, at least try to make it work.
And no, seeing as cArn learned about RTS games a year ago, I think it's safe to say it takes more than a year to achieve a higher level of mechanics.
He hyped Carn during the first GSL, when Carn wasn't even a master league player. Carn got a small fan base, and this is the only reason he got in a team.
He trained a lot and he's still far from being a top player. I'm not sure what his background is, but you need at least 2-3 years of RTS experience to become a top player.
With eSahara adding more players, they probably had to make a decision here. They made a honest post about it and people are raging at them ... next time they should just write a fake statement without any details at all.
Edit: Carn made a bad decision to go and train in Korea at his skill level. Until you're GM on EU or US, there's no reason to do that. There are lots of players below GM level who train daily as hard as Carn, and they get no attention at all.
If there's anyone to blame for this situation, it's Carn. No one forced him to give his personal life and move to Korea.
On January 12 2012 20:36 Tidus Mino wrote: Your post is really bias, and it's obvious you are affiliated with eSahara. If he felt he would get crushed in the qualifiers, of course he would not want to try as to lose badly would be hugely demotivating.
He's not eSahara related, and cArn didn't practice past few month, we can't keep a player not showing any dedication.
On January 12 2012 20:42 gregnog wrote: Dont worry they have.... Madelisk?
MaddeLisk trains very hard with Naama, Jimpo, Naugrim, Satiini, Check... and is really involved into eSahara's team life. And she's in the talented line up whereas cArn was considered as pro. I personally have a lot of respect for cArn, i consider him as a friend, but he didn't show anything good since he's in eSahara.
Dopani (RS manager/proS manager) told that cArn wasn't practincing and playing DotA. Based on his ladder rank, cArn is not training that hard for now.
On January 12 2012 22:01 cyclone25 wrote: This all happens because of Artosis! + Show Spoiler +
<3 Artosis btw
He hyped Carn during the first GSL, when Carn wasn't even a master league player. Carn got a small fan base, and this is the only reason he got in a team.
He trained a lot and he's still far from being a top player. I'm not sure what his background is, but you need at least 2-3 years of RTS experience to become a top player.
With eSahara adding more players, they probably had to make a decision here. They made a honest post about it and people are raging at them ... next time they should just write a fake statement without any details at all.
Actually... HuK is a hard counter to what you said.
On January 12 2012 20:34 RPR_Tempest wrote: If that is honestly the reason they dropped him, then that's fucking bullshit. cArn is an incredibly hard working player. He decides not to attend ONE TIME and they drop him even though he's sacrificed everything to try and participate in GSL? What the fuck, eSahara.
EDIT: If you're going to be disrespectful and say shit like "Who cares, cArn has achieved nothing."
LMAO, really? They are a business. I'm pretty sure there are people who would love to be with eSahara, play games all day as a job and gladly compete at the qualifiers. Just because you "work hard" does not mean you deserve to be on a team. If the results aren't there what do you expect will happen? This is the case with all sports. The fact that he didn't go to the qualifier slaps eSahara in the face for supporting him while he plays Starcraft all day instead of work like the rest of us.
It's not like the qualifiers happen all the time. Being a pro-gamer implies that you compete and obtain sufficient results. cArn has failed the latter and now refuses to the former. Not much to be said here. Good move by eSahara.
On January 12 2012 22:01 cyclone25 wrote: This all happens because of Artosis! + Show Spoiler +
<3 Artosis btw
He hyped Carn during the first GSL, when Carn wasn't even a master league player. Carn got a small fan base, and this is the only reason he got in a team.
He trained a lot and he's still far from being a top player. I'm not sure what his background is, but you need at least 2-3 years of RTS experience to become a top player.
With eSahara adding more players, they probably had to make a decision here. They made a honest post about it and people are raging at them ... next time they should just write a fake statement without any details at all.
Edit: Carn made a bad decision to go and train in Korea at his skill level. Until you're GM on EU or US, there's no reason to do that. There are lots of players below GM level who train daily as hard as Carn, and they get no attention at all.
If there's anyone to blame for this situation, it's Carn. No one forced him to give his personal life and move to Korea.
To say you released cArn because he lacks motivation seems dishonest. You can say he hasn't produced results, or hasn't really been apart of the team, or doesn't have the talent, but to question his dedication seems insane. Perhaps his dedication has waned recently, but not going to GSL qualifier because you're going to get stomped doesn't seem very conclusive.
It does not matter what he does sacrifice. His passion does not matter in terms of being a progamer. If he thinks so low of himself or just very high of others and that makes him not even try, he's just not progamer material.
Its not about not falling, its about rising again. GL to cArn, I don't understand his decision.
I guess this is why teams like to give vague statements on players leaving teams? Just look at the backlash they get when they try to be more specific.
He's been in Korea for a very very long time now and has not produced anything noteworthy. It makes perfect sense to separate on eSahara's side.
On January 12 2012 22:01 cyclone25 wrote: This all happens because of Artosis! + Show Spoiler +
<3 Artosis btw
He hyped Carn during the first GSL, when Carn wasn't even a master league player. Carn got a small fan base, and this is the only reason he got in a team.
He trained a lot and he's still far from being a top player. I'm not sure what his background is, but you need at least 2-3 years of RTS experience to become a top player.
With eSahara adding more players, they probably had to make a decision here. They made a honest post about it and people are raging at them ... next time they should just write a fake statement without any details at all.
Edit: Carn made a bad decision to go and train in Korea at his skill level. Until you're GM on EU or US, there's no reason to do that. There are lots of players below GM level who train daily as hard as Carn, and they get no attention at all.
If there's anyone to blame for this situation, it's Carn. No one forced him to give his personal life and move to Korea.
To say you released cArn because he lacks motivation seems dishonest. You can say he hasn't produced results, or hasn't really been apart of the team, or doesn't have the talent, but to question his dedication seems insane. Perhaps his dedication has waned recently, but not going to GSL qualifier because you're going to get stomped doesn't seem very conclusive.
Even if he lost in the GSL qualifier, it was good advertisement for eShara to have a player represent them. People would have talked about him in forums, etc. He refused to do that, so what exactly does eSahara gain from having him in the roster?
On January 12 2012 21:40 Rekrul wrote: if i were a team i'd expect my player to just sack up and go take the beating even even if my player was going in with 0 confidence in his chance to qualify, all about experience yo (but at the same time it's frustrating and annoying to do something u have 0 confidence in lol)
and wtf, there needs to be a subforum for 'x player joins x team' or 'x player leaves x team'
10 new threads a day with this bs
there was a short lived staff write up posted like twice.... for team transfers and stuff for the week. i guess they just couldnt be bothered anymore
On January 12 2012 22:13 seiferoth10 wrote: I guess this is why teams like to give vague statements on players leaving teams? Just look at the backlash they get when they try to be more specific.
He's been in Korea for a very very long time now and has not produced anything noteworthy. It makes perfect sense to separate on eSahara's side.
i think people are pissed off because they said lacked dedication. they are kicking him because he didnt take part in code a qualifiers, its up to the public to decide if that shows a lack of dedication. their feelings on the matter should stay internal
I dont get the outcry really. His complete lack of results is enough to justifiy them dropping him.
On January 12 2012 21:24 zere wrote: As Aphasie pointed out, it really feels like this serves as an excuse to kick him out. The wording of this news ("plus que délicate", "expulsé de la GOM house,", "très décevants", "manque de motivation") is a very straight-forward effort to discredit cArn, and that's what tips me off here. I feel this is inappropriate, a disgrace.
I am afraid you're mistaken. The wording of the news on their site is perfectly professional, no discredit, no hard feelings.
On January 12 2012 22:01 cyclone25 wrote: This all happens because of Artosis! + Show Spoiler +
<3 Artosis btw
He hyped Carn during the first GSL, when Carn wasn't even a master league player. Carn got a small fan base, and this is the only reason he got in a team.
He trained a lot and he's still far from being a top player. I'm not sure what his background is, but you need at least 2-3 years of RTS experience to become a top player.
With eSahara adding more players, they probably had to make a decision here. They made a honest post about it and people are raging at them ... next time they should just write a fake statement without any details at all.
Edit: Carn made a bad decision to go and train in Korea at his skill level. Until you're GM on EU or US, there's no reason to do that. There are lots of players below GM level who train daily as hard as Carn, and they get no attention at all.
If there's anyone to blame for this situation, it's Carn. No one forced him to give his personal life and move to Korea.
To say you released cArn because he lacks motivation seems dishonest. You can say he hasn't produced results, or hasn't really been apart of the team, or doesn't have the talent, but to question his dedication seems insane. Perhaps his dedication has waned recently, but not going to GSL qualifier because you're going to get stomped doesn't seem very conclusive.
Even if he lost in the GSL qualifier, it was good advertisement for eShara to have a player represent them. People would have talked about him in forums, etc. He refused to do that, so what exactly does eSahara gain from having him in the roster?
I think it's perfectly fine that they released him from the team. I just wished eShara would have said 'cArn doesn't provide anything for the team so we don't see a reason to keep him around'. Saying he isn't dedicated, when everything we've ever seen from cArn scream dedication despite huge odds against him, seems like an excuse.
I'd like to have more details; and another post says that he's stopped training and his ladder rank reflects this. But they should have mentioned that in the release.
i think people here are super biased because artosis talks about carn quite often. I dont know how much carn got from eSahara, but he has not had _any_ results so far, so if he now doesnt even try to get results anymore by attending code a qualifiers, then i can honestly understand their decision.
just because he has been in korea practising (?) for so long does not automatically mean he is or will be a good player at some point. it also does not mean that esahara has some kind of obligation to keep him in the team.
I am surprised so many people are siding with cArn here. He refused to even attempt qualifying at a qualifier that comes every 2 months or so. That shows a severe lack of cofidence and motivation, and I see no problem with how they parted ways.
I am not going to even start talking about results here, but they might also be a part of why this happened.
Also, they cited lack of dedication, but dedication to what?
He's obviously dedicated to becoming a progamer in SC2, that's obvious. Was he dedicated to eSahara and providing them with what they expected of him? Judging by his absence from the qualifier, it doesn't seem so.
Nothing wrong eSahara did here. Not even trying to qualify shows the little tenacity cArn has left as a SC2 pro, and the value of him being on their roster.
Whoever writes for eSahara and does their PR is totally incompetent or amateurish, it was like this already in previous threads they've made concerning players they signed(horrific grammar, almost "engrish" in nature), it's also laughable how they question his commitment and motivation when he has been living in Korea for longer than any SC2 foreigner unless you count Tastosis. With his on money too for months before joining this team.
They handled this so badly, you don't criticize players you release so publicly especially in such a biased and opinionated manner. Every other single esport team out there are always smart enough to just say "part ways amicably," or "by mutual agreement." Maybe he is going to play DOTA2 competitively, who knows but they didn't need to try make him look like a bad guy for no reason other than to cover their own ass. I have never seen a esport team that is so terrible at PR and press releases in the past decade since they started to crop up.
but if the OP has nothing to do with either player, I feel like an announcement like this should have been made by one of the two relevant parties, to avoid inaccuracies. There are a lot more unnecessary accusations and bias here than would have occurred if we had gotten information from cArn or eSahara.
eSahara has a peculiar line-up for sure. It's kinda wierd that cArn just "floated" in the team for such a long period of time without gaining any achievements. Hell, I wonder how much he has even played the game, but that doesen't matter now. Strong choice for eSahara to make a decision like this and I like it.
eSahara is a business. Their obligation is to generate some sort of revenue through publicity and advertisement for their sponsors. They can't do that if a player has 0 results and doesn't try to get any (does he even play playhem dailies? IEM qualifiers? HSC Qualifiers? Nope, never seen his name there)
Sacrifice is great, but he obviously underestimated the level of skill he needs to be at when he started on his pro-gaming career.
Don't hate them for letting an average player go, they probably just let the contract expire.
There has been a lot of drama with eSahara lately. - The imposter scandal - The Naama blunder - This (But according to some of the post in the thread i kind of agree with them, not listening to Pros coach etc.)
Hopefully they can clean up their image, I personally feel they have very good intentions and ambitions.
Even if this is not the correct reason for a lot of people to drop him. You can argue that dropping him for a lack of results is enough. He has been in Korea for 1.5 years and hasn't shown anything.
He only participated in the ESWC because he was the Moroccan invite. (He went 1-4 in his group) Was never really close to getting in the GSL if I am correct.
Haha people hating on cArn about not succeeding... yeah he didn't succeed in.... GS fucking L.... Then again, Naniwa hasn't, Sjow hasn't, Jinro sure isn't anymore. The list goes on and on.
The list the guy made earlier about cArns dedication compared to eSaharas sums it up imo.
cArn is at the stage where being in Korea is no longer, and most likely hasn't been for quite some time, beneficial.
he should return to Europe, decide if he wants to keep playing and go from there. he doesn't bring anything to the table PR wise and he has absolutely no results as a player.
there is no point in a professional gaming team keeping a pro gamer that doesn't can't meet the basic standards of a pro-gamer.
he's not good enough, plain and simple. that doesn't mean he won't be in the future - but it's probably best for all concerned if they sever ties, and if carn leaves korea for a while. it simply hasn't worked.
On January 12 2012 22:41 bubblegumbo wrote: Whoever writes for eSahara and does their PR is totally incompetent or amateurish, it was like this already in previous threads they've made concerning players they signed(horrific grammar, almost "engrish" in nature), it's also laughable how they question his commitment and motivation when he has been living in Korea for longer than any SC2 foreigner unless you count Tastosis. With his on money too for months before joining this team.
They handled this so badly, you don't criticize players you release so publicly especially in such a biased and opinionated manner. Every other single esport team out there are always smart enough to just say "part ways amicably," or "by mutual agreement." Maybe he is going to play DOTA2 competitively, who knows but they didn't need to try make him look like a bad guy for no reason other than to cover their own ass. I have never seen a esport team that is so terrible at PR and press releases in the past decade since they started to crop up.
And this too, the biggest reason eSahara gets alot of shit in this thread because whoever writes their PR is complete crap.
Can't blame eSahare for this but at the same time cArn's story could almost be called a sad story . Maybe some other team still wants to pick him up, someone who wants to sacrifice everything to go to Korea is either stupid or has a ton of potential, I hope it's the latter one!
I dont understand where eSahara's hubris is coming from. I understand that at a certain point you have to let a player go, but with latency being cited as an issue, with time differences an issue, with no support system visible, by their condemnation of him as undedicated.... I am wondering whether or not eSahara is actually worth time and energy to consider as worthwhile. cArn is one of the most dedicated players in eSports-moving to Korea with no SC or RTS background to play SC2. He abandoned everything and has been living without much money by his own will... I do not see any of these things as lack of dedication. I do see a lack of support structure on eSahara's part that would help cArn to motivate him, to help him understand (kindly) that he needs to show up to represent eSahara at the qualifiers, even if he has no hope.
To the meat of the matter, eSahara has posted no notable results. Naama's top 8 @ Dreamhack Winter 2011 I believe can be attributed to his displayed skill moreso than eSaraha's care for him, as shown by their bungling of his travel material. If eSahara has posted no results, how can they-another team with no results in the sea of eSports teams-get mad at a player that is performing likewise? As an atheist i don't particularly enjoy this analogy, however: why aren't they looking at the beam in their own eye rather than seeing the splinter in carbs?
On January 12 2012 23:03 sereniity wrote: Haha people hating on cArn about not succeeding... yeah he didn't succeed in.... GS fucking L.... Then again, Naniwa hasn't, Sjow hasn't, Jinro sure isn't anymore. The list goes on and on.
The list the guy made earlier about cArns dedication compared to eSaharas sums it up imo.
They're still capable of competing in the qualifiers - and winning. cArn can't even play at the qualifier anymore - that's a BIG difference, not just in terms of results, but mentally too.
At what time do you pull the plug when some one is staying on 0 results, as a team i believe you want more then cArn has been giving atm, respect for him for staying in korea and trying but, can't fault a team for dropping you because you do not deliver any results at all.
On January 12 2012 23:03 sereniity wrote: Haha people hating on cArn about not succeeding... yeah he didn't succeed in.... GS fucking L.... Then again, Naniwa hasn't, Sjow hasn't, Jinro sure isn't anymore. The list goes on and on.
The list the guy made earlier about cArns dedication compared to eSaharas sums it up imo.
They're still capable of competing in the qualifiers - and winning. cArn can't even play at the qualifier anymore - that's a BIG difference, not just in terms of results, but mentally too.
He chose to not participate as he felt like he needed to practice more. If he thinks he wont win them then the time is better off spent on practicing, just as other players choose to not go to tournaments because they find their time more valuable used for practice.
I don't see any benefit for eSahara to have cArn on the team. He can't play in teamleagues and doesn't play the only tournament/qualifier he could play in.
I mean, I'm sorry for cArn, but you can't blame eSahara.
On January 12 2012 23:03 sereniity wrote: Haha people hating on cArn about not succeeding... yeah he didn't succeed in.... GS fucking L.... Then again, Naniwa hasn't, Sjow hasn't, Jinro sure isn't anymore. The list goes on and on.
The list the guy made earlier about cArns dedication compared to eSaharas sums it up imo.
Sjow actually never dropped out of the GSL, he was seeded for next season to but decided to not participate. Naniwa has had good result in other tournaments. I can't really say anything about Jinro, he practices a shit ton, earlier in the thread somebody pointed out that ProS coach said he was only playing Dota and not practicing?
On January 12 2012 23:03 sereniity wrote: Haha people hating on cArn about not succeeding... yeah he didn't succeed in.... GS fucking L.... Then again, Naniwa hasn't, Sjow hasn't, Jinro sure isn't anymore. The list goes on and on.
The list the guy made earlier about cArns dedication compared to eSaharas sums it up imo.
They're still capable of competing in the qualifiers - and winning. cArn can't even play at the qualifier anymore - that's a BIG difference, not just in terms of results, but mentally too.
Naniwa/Sjow haven't played in the qualifiers though.
I'm bit tired of people not knowing a quarter of what is up to jump on conclusion, I didn't want to say anything about all this but if people are to say things that are not true I guess I'll have to shed some lights.
I'm gonna be very short as it was something I was gonna talk about in the rest of my blogs anyway. So long story short, I joined eSahara, they couldn't provide me with the possibility to pratice since I left the GOM house, so I wasn't able to practice for 5 or 6 months. Guess what, when you can't practice for this long, you're not gonna have any results.
For the qualifiers I had a bit over a month of practice at the ProS house, but I was still not in good shape enough to be able to win it, and if I were to go to the qualifiers it would be to win. It wasn't going to happen this time, and I had more than enough experience playing in every single one of the previous qualifiers (except the one when I was in Europe for ESWC).
There also was no real coverage whatsover of the qualifiers this time so it's not like there was any exposure to get out of it for the team, instead of continuing the disappointments that were ESWC and PPSL I would rather get my skill level and my confidence in my game back, improve as much as possible and be ready to win the next qualifier.
I just find really disappointing that eSahara tries to discredit me like this, that they interpret me not going as a lack of motivation, sure no problem that's what they think, but to then try to make people think I'm not practising is just not something you do. Especially since I choose to stick with them when I had better options just because I felt they were going in the right direction and had the right ideas and that we could build something together. I was wrong, it was just talking. I could have things to say about what went wrong with eSahara and I, but I'm not gonna be that guy who crosses the line even though they went out of their way to spread misinformation about me.
It's fine, I know what I want and what I'm capable of, people who know me and know the details about all of this are supporting me, and those who don't have all the informations have to keep this in mind : they don't have all the informations.
So thanks to those who are still supporting me. The ones who are doubting me it's fine, it's just a matter of time before you are made wrong.
I know it, people who know me know it, eSahara knows it.
Just next time ... say it how it is : no results. Which I obviously understand, but that's all there is to it.
I'm not going into further details now, everything is gonna be covered in my next blogs when I get to that point. As for this issue there is not much more to say.
team is obviously going through a restructuring, whatever their reasons for getting rid of carn its their choice. What value has cArn brought to esahara? not a whole lot. I'd imagine they were willing to give him a last shot and he simply didnt want to, straw that broke the camel's back n all.
edit: my post was speculation, cArn seems to have posted so just refer to that rather than my bs ramblings.
Everybody seems to think that just because a player goes to Korea then he has all the motivation in the world. It's not about where he goes but about what he does when he gets there.
Korea seems like a nice place for a vacation and i'm sure there's plenty of things to do besides playing sc2.
If he didn't feel prepared to even try out for the qualifiers then that shows me that either he didnt' train hard enough, or he's just not that talented. Either way, the team seems to be in the right....
and yes he seems like a nice guy with some good blogs but that's hardly the point here.
On January 12 2012 22:54 Eee wrote: There has been a lot of drama with eSahara lately. - The imposter scandal - The Naama blunder - This (But according to some of the post in the thread i kind of agree with them, not listening to Pros coach etc.)
Hopefully they can clean up their image, I personally feel they have very good intentions and ambitions.
On January 12 2012 22:54 Eee wrote: There has been a lot of drama with eSahara lately. - The imposter scandal - The Naama blunder - This (But according to some of the post in the thread i kind of agree with them, not listening to Pros coach etc.)
Hopefully they can clean up their image, I personally feel they have very good intentions and ambitions.
What was the Naama blunder?
They ordered an airplane ticket for " Namma Santerii " and at the airport he got rejected because Naama isn't his real name.
BTW, I completly understand esahara decision. Why keep a player on a team when you realize that he won't achieve nothing ? He stayed in KR for over 1 year and he wasn't able to qualify for code A one time.
On January 12 2012 23:04 k!llua wrote: cArn is at the stage where being in Korea is no longer, and most likely hasn't been for quite some time, beneficial.
he should return to Europe, decide if he wants to keep playing and go from there. he doesn't bring anything to the table PR wise and he has absolutely no results as a player.
there is no point in a professional gaming team keeping a pro gamer that doesn't can't meet the basic standards of a pro-gamer.
he's not good enough, plain and simple. that doesn't mean he won't be in the future - but it's probably best for all concerned if they sever ties, and if carn leaves korea for a while. it simply hasn't worked.
Is it also a option that cArn enjoys his life in Korea, and for that reason wants to continue over there, staying close to the fire, improving as much as possible. Not necesairy willing to be "one of the guys", but doing things his way. He indeed uses a path very different to other players, but this is obviously the thing he feels good about and he seems to enjoy it. So I think it's best he continues on this way.
I do agree he isn't that intresting for teams because of his results, but perhaps he should try to make a living out of other things, for example his blogs about Korea were more then intresting. We should keep in mind a player can be useful for a team in many ways, results aint the only usefull skill
On January 12 2012 22:54 Eee wrote: There has been a lot of drama with eSahara lately. - The imposter scandal - The Naama blunder - This (But according to some of the post in the thread i kind of agree with them, not listening to Pros coach etc.)
Hopefully they can clean up their image, I personally feel they have very good intentions and ambitions.
What was the Naama blunder?
They ordered an airplane ticket for " Namma Santerii " and at the airport he got rejected because Naama isn't his real name.
BTW, I completly understand esahara decision. Why keep a player on a team when you realize that he won't achieve nothing ? He stayed in KR for over 1 year and he wasn't able to qualify for code A one time.
LOL instead of buying it for "Santeri Lahtinen"? (According to TLPD, that's his real name >.>)
That's pretty funny (although sad at the same time). It's like buying a fake ID that says McLovin.
On January 12 2012 22:54 Eee wrote: There has been a lot of drama with eSahara lately. - The imposter scandal - The Naama blunder - This (But according to some of the post in the thread i kind of agree with them, not listening to Pros coach etc.)
Hopefully they can clean up their image, I personally feel they have very good intentions and ambitions.
What was the Naama blunder?
They ordered an airplane ticket for " Namma Santerii " and at the airport he got rejected because Naama isn't his real name.
BTW, I completly understand esahara decision. Why keep a player on a team when you realize that he won't achieve nothing ? He stayed in KR for over 1 year and he wasn't able to qualify for code A one time.
On January 12 2012 23:04 k!llua wrote: cArn is at the stage where being in Korea is no longer, and most likely hasn't been for quite some time, beneficial.
he should return to Europe, decide if he wants to keep playing and go from there. he doesn't bring anything to the table PR wise and he has absolutely no results as a player.
there is no point in a professional gaming team keeping a pro gamer that doesn't can't meet the basic standards of a pro-gamer.
he's not good enough, plain and simple. that doesn't mean he won't be in the future - but it's probably best for all concerned if they sever ties, and if carn leaves korea for a while. it simply hasn't worked.
I love how you, K!llua, knows what's beneficial and what's best for both esahara and cArn. He's not good enough, so he should go home to europe? Maybe if he got the chance to join a solid training house he would be able to gain a code A spot, how would you know? Maybe he will get a chance to join one of the korean teams? Maybe he's stuck teamless in korea for another year?
I don't know and neither do you. Getting really tired of know-it-alls that apparently know exactly what other people should and shouldn't do.
I'm not a cArn anti-fan and I don't want to come off as bashing, but come on people, let's be semi-realistic here. eSahara is a relatively new yet up-and-coming team. They have just signed 2 Korean pros as well as a number of good European players. cArn has been in Korea longer than any other foreigner and has produced less results. Even if you aren't competing in GSL, time in Korea should greatly improve your skills, and if I'm not mistaken cArn hasnt won let alone competed in any events outside of Korea. Simply going to Korea and living with Koreans doesn't make you a great player. Sometimes you just need to cut your losses, maybe it's time cArn tried to compete in the foreigner scene since it's much more forgiving.
On January 12 2012 23:12 Hossinaut wrote: I dont understand where eSahara's hubris is coming from. I understand that at a certain point you have to let a player go, but with latency being cited as an issue, with time differences an issue, with no support system visible, by their condemnation of him as undedicated.... I am wondering whether or not eSahara is actually worth time and energy to consider as worthwhile. cArn is one of the most dedicated players in eSports-moving to Korea with no SC or RTS background to play SC2. He abandoned everything and has been living without much money by his own will... I do not see any of these things as lack of dedication. I do see a lack of support structure on eSahara's part that would help cArn to motivate him, to help him understand (kindly) that he needs to show up to represent eSahara at the qualifiers, even if he has no hope.
To the meat of the matter, eSahara has posted no notable results. Naama's top 8 @ Dreamhack Winter 2011 I believe can be attributed to his displayed skill moreso than eSaraha's care for him, as shown by their bungling of his travel material. If eSahara has posted no results, how can they-another team with no results in the sea of eSports teams-get mad at a player that is performing likewise? As an atheist i don't particularly enjoy this analogy, however: why aren't they looking at the beam in their own eye rather than seeing the splinter in cArns?
You're right in many ways.
But there's something important that you're forgeting. A team works with sponsors. Sponsors want much visibility. This visibility is carried by the players making results in competition (even it's small results, qualify, get out the group stages, etc.., the farthest players go, the most satisfied the sponsors are).
cArn is in Korea, where he wants to be obviously, he never plays online cups in EU (theses cups give much visibility, that how Stephano has been known at strat, Nerchio aswell), he never plays qualifications for IEM/IPL etc, and don't play GSL qualifier for code A.
We can have much respect for cArn (and i have), but if you put yourself in eSahara's shoes, you would have to ask yourself if it worth it.
It's sad, for sure, but it's real life, and life do not always reward the the bravest.
Well tbh who did not see this coming? Just because someone decides to live in Korea does not mean they have what it takes to be an SC2 pro let alone qualify for GSL. Tried, failed, end of story. Of course the only way to see is by making the effort, which is commendable but hey it's 2012 already.
On January 12 2012 23:03 sereniity wrote: Haha people hating on cArn about not succeeding... yeah he didn't succeed in.... GS fucking L.... Then again, Naniwa hasn't, Sjow hasn't, Jinro sure isn't anymore. The list goes on and on.
The list the guy made earlier about cArns dedication compared to eSaharas sums it up imo.
They're still capable of competing in the qualifiers - and winning. cArn can't even play at the qualifier anymore - that's a BIG difference, not just in terms of results, but mentally too.
Naniwa/Sjow haven't played in the qualifiers though.
You're right. They got a seed directly to Code A and wiped immediately along with EVERY other foreigner.
What sort of fly by night team is this eSahara? I've never heard of them and then 10 days ago 13 threads pop up about how they acquired Maka and Check and people are going to Korea and . Haha, that must be why they're getting rid of cArn.
As far as I'm concerned cArn was the only interesting person on the team. They're threads are cheesy. Which includes their banners, font, P.R. linguism.
ROFL they think they sign a oldschool bw pro because they observed him on the NA ladder for a few days where he managed to do "well". Who is commandeering this vessel?
I see more dismay coming from this cracksquad of highly motivated individuals.
On January 12 2012 23:04 k!llua wrote: cArn is at the stage where being in Korea is no longer, and most likely hasn't been for quite some time, beneficial.
he should return to Europe, decide if he wants to keep playing and go from there. he doesn't bring anything to the table PR wise and he has absolutely no results as a player.
there is no point in a professional gaming team keeping a pro gamer that doesn't can't meet the basic standards of a pro-gamer.
he's not good enough, plain and simple. that doesn't mean he won't be in the future - but it's probably best for all concerned if they sever ties, and if carn leaves korea for a while. it simply hasn't worked.
I love how you, K!llua, knows what's beneficial and what's best for both esahara and cArn. He's not good enough, so he should go home to europe? Maybe if he got the chance to join a solid training house he would be able to gain a code A spot, how would you know? Maybe he will get a chance to join one of the korean teams? Maybe he's stuck teamless in korea for another year?
I don't know and neither do you. Getting really tired of know-it-alls that apparently know exactly what other people should and shouldn't do.
there's a lot of "maybe" in what you say there.
professional organisations can only continue to operate on the basis of a "maybe" for so long. maybe cArn will get into GSL and prove everyone wrong. i hope he does. but after a year of no results - for whatever reason - surely you can understand why esahara decided to cut the cord. they're not a charity, after all.
On January 12 2012 23:39 Muki wrote: Well tbh who did not see this coming? Just because someone decides to live in Korea does not mean they have what it takes to be an SC2 pro let alone qualify for GSL. Tried, failed, end of story. Of course the only way to see is by making the effort, which is commendable but hey it's 2012 already.
Just because someone decides to live in Korea doesn't mean they get access to training partners or a decent place to practice. It's not as black and white as either you try and win or try and fail. There's lots of circumstances that affect the outcome.
On January 12 2012 23:04 k!llua wrote: cArn is at the stage where being in Korea is no longer, and most likely hasn't been for quite some time, beneficial.
he should return to Europe, decide if he wants to keep playing and go from there. he doesn't bring anything to the table PR wise and he has absolutely no results as a player.
there is no point in a professional gaming team keeping a pro gamer that doesn't can't meet the basic standards of a pro-gamer.
he's not good enough, plain and simple. that doesn't mean he won't be in the future - but it's probably best for all concerned if they sever ties, and if carn leaves korea for a while. it simply hasn't worked.
I love how you, K!llua, knows what's beneficial and what's best for both esahara and cArn. He's not good enough, so he should go home to europe? Maybe if he got the chance to join a solid training house he would be able to gain a code A spot, how would you know? Maybe he will get a chance to join one of the korean teams? Maybe he's stuck teamless in korea for another year?
I don't know and neither do you. Getting really tired of know-it-alls that apparently know exactly what other people should and shouldn't do.
there's a lot of "maybe" in what you say there.
professional organisations can only continue to operate on the basis of a "maybe" for so long. maybe cArn will get into GSL and prove everyone wrong. i hope he does. but after a year of no results - for whatever reason - surely you can understand why esahara decided to cut the cord. they're not a charity, after all.
Maybe it's beneficial for esahara to kick cArn. But what irks me is that people like you can just breeze in and say "It's best if you do X". Do you know cArn, do you know all the circumstances or are you just sprouting your opinion as some kind of fact? Maybe you should use the word "maybe" some in your posts as it seems like you're just guessing.
Oh cmon all the haters would u pay someones living at the korea for "training hard etc etc and then he couldnt achieve anything and now dosnt even want to try. There is probs alot people who hate eSahara cause they are eSahara
This is super lame. I'm inclined to believe everything cArn says, since he tells it like it is and doesn't make excuses - he's been trying to break into the hardest league in the world, and he hasn't made it yet. Going by what cArn was saying, esahara basically had no Korean presence for a long time and gave cArn no practice support, and then as soon as they start recruiting Koreans they boot cArn for not having practiced before when there was no one to practice with.
Plus, judging by the tone of this and previous esahara press releases, and the other fiascos they've been involved in, I'm betting that no one ever went up to cArn and said "hey man you need to go to the qualifiers, the bosses think its really important and they're going to boot you if you don't go," which would presumably have led him to go. This seems more spur of the moment.
If this is how esahara does things then it doesn't seem like a sustainable part of esports. Maybe they're more professional in their native language (French, I think?) but it's hard to see how a team this disorganized manages to get enough sponsorships to hire players and keep a team going in Korea.
To cArn: I hope this doesn't force you to split up from your practice partners at ProS, that would be super lame now that you've finally got good practice again.
For all I care, whatever eSahara said may be true.
BUT
As a professional team, you should NEVER make a statement like that. Let your unhappiness be between the team and the player. Why try to discredit and disgrace him like that?
If a team like EG were to release a player for "lacking motivation", their statement would be along the lines of "The team and player had different goals and therefore parted ways." Don't put someone down like he's a dog.
eSahara, you have lost my respect. Your are an extremely, extremely unprofessional team.
Living in Korea doesn't matter if you don't actually practice there.. (Playing dota etc.. in the ProS house) Completely understand eSahara's decision here.. though their wording could've been a bit better. GL for both eSahara and cArn.. Hope they'll get naama to Korea too, properly this time.. ;P
On January 12 2012 23:39 Muki wrote: Well tbh who did not see this coming? Just because someone decides to live in Korea does not mean they have what it takes to be an SC2 pro let alone qualify for GSL. Tried, failed, end of story. Of course the only way to see is by making the effort, which is commendable but hey it's 2012 already.
Just because someone decides to live in Korea doesn't mean they get access to training partners or a decent place to practice. It's not as black and white as either you try and win or try and fail. There's lots of circumstances that affect the outcome.
Yea, these would be things to take care of BEFORE you go to Korea. You don't just hope that someone will come along and pay for/set up all that for you...
On January 12 2012 23:38 Agathon wrote: but if you put yourself in eSahara's shoes, you would have to ask yourself if it worth it.
They should have thought about that before they signed him.
They strike me as one of those teams that will sign anyone they've heard of given a chance. Their entire roster is a random collection of players that they picked up at random places and that they obviously know nothing or very little about.
When they signed cArn, he was somewhat known in the community and he was in Korea, so at the time it was a good choice for a completely new team. Now that they've managed to pick up Naama and the Koreans, they no longer need him any more.
It's such a fickle and petty management, but then again that's nothing new for organizations with counterstrike background.
On January 12 2012 23:39 Muki wrote: Well tbh who did not see this coming? Just because someone decides to live in Korea does not mean they have what it takes to be an SC2 pro let alone qualify for GSL. Tried, failed, end of story. Of course the only way to see is by making the effort, which is commendable but hey it's 2012 already.
Just because someone decides to live in Korea doesn't mean they get access to training partners or a decent place to practice. It's not as black and white as either you try and win or try and fail. There's lots of circumstances that affect the outcome.
Yea, these would be things to take care of BEFORE you go to Korea. You don't just hope that someone will come along and pay for/set up all that for you...
Agreed. What i was saying is that he might got what it takes but circumstances and the lack of a solid team hurt his chances.
On January 12 2012 23:38 Agathon wrote: but if you put yourself in eSahara's shoes, you would have to ask yourself if it worth it.
They should have thought about that before they signed him.
They strike me as one of those teams that will sign anyone they've heard of given a chance. Their entire roster is a random collection of players that they picked up at random places and that they obviously know nothing or very little about.
When they signed cArn, he was somewhat known in the community and he was in Korea, so at the time it was a good choice for a completely new team. Now that they've managed to pick up Naama and the Koreans, they no longer need him any more.
It's such a fickle and petty management, but then again that's nothing new for organizations with counterstrike background.
Your complained works both ways, cArn himself would have known they had no place for him to stay, or did they fool him to sign a contract.
On January 12 2012 23:39 Muki wrote: Well tbh who did not see this coming? Just because someone decides to live in Korea does not mean they have what it takes to be an SC2 pro let alone qualify for GSL. Tried, failed, end of story. Of course the only way to see is by making the effort, which is commendable but hey it's 2012 already.
Just because someone decides to live in Korea doesn't mean they get access to training partners or a decent place to practice. It's not as black and white as either you try and win or try and fail. There's lots of circumstances that affect the outcome.
Yea, these would be things to take care of BEFORE you go to Korea. You don't just hope that someone will come along and pay for/set up all that for you...
Agreed. What i was saying is that he might got what it takes but circumstances and the lack of a solid team hurt his chances.
He's been in Korea for a long time. Even when he was practicing/streaming a lot he was only mid masters. Hell, any random masters player might "got what it takes" if allowed to practice 12 hours a day in a Korean environment. But this is a business environment and time and money are very real factors. If he hasn't qualified for GSL yet, chances are he won't ever, the competition in the GSL is rising rapidly and with BW pros switches very soon, foreigner chances in the GSL are almost over.
On January 12 2012 23:38 Agathon wrote: but if you put yourself in eSahara's shoes, you would have to ask yourself if it worth it.
They should have thought about that before they signed him.
They strike me as one of those teams that will sign anyone they've heard of given a chance. Their entire roster is a random collection of players that they picked up at random places and that they obviously know nothing or very little about.
When they signed cArn, he was somewhat known in the community and he was in Korea, so at the time it was a good choice for a completely new team. Now that they've managed to pick up Naama and the Koreans, they no longer need him any more.
It's such a fickle and petty management, but then again that's nothing new for organizations with counterstrike background.
Your complained works both ways, cArn himself would have known they had no place for him to stay, or did they fool him to sign a contract.
I would actually love to hear a clarification of whether or not carn knew this beforehand.
Then again, it might not even matter. If they failed to provide support and a practice environment from him, and then make expectations that, in order to be met, required him to practice, the blame still falls on them. Instead, they are blaming HIM for not practicing and presenting it as evidence for his lack of dedication.
On January 12 2012 23:38 Agathon wrote: but if you put yourself in eSahara's shoes, you would have to ask yourself if it worth it.
They should have thought about that before they signed him.
They strike me as one of those teams that will sign anyone they've heard of given a chance. Their entire roster is a random collection of players that they picked up at random places and that they obviously know nothing or very little about.
When they signed cArn, he was somewhat known in the community and he was in Korea, so at the time it was a good choice for a completely new team. Now that they've managed to pick up Naama and the Koreans, they no longer need him any more.
It's such a fickle and petty management, but then again that's nothing new for organizations with counterstrike background.
Your complained works both ways, cArn himself would have known they had no place for him to stay, or did they fool him to sign a contract.
I would actually love to hear a clarification of whether or not carn knew this beforehand.
Then again, it might not even matter. If they failed to provide support and a practice environment from him, and then make expectations that, in order to be met, required him to practice, the blame still falls on them. Instead, they are blaming HIM for not practicing and presenting it as evidence for his lack of dedication.
Indeed we do not know the insight of the contract so it's only speculations but it bothers me that eSahara's get's the flame without people know what exactly is going on nether do we, i doubt you just dumb a player if he shows great form or promise.
On January 12 2012 23:18 cArn- wrote: I'm bit tired of people not knowing a quarter of what is up to jump on conclusion, I didn't want to say anything about all this but if people are to say things that are not true I guess I'll have to shed some lights.
I'm gonna be very short as it was something I was gonna talk about in the rest of my blogs anyway. So long story short, I joined eSahara, they couldn't provide me with the possibility to pratice since I left the GOM house, so I wasn't able to practice for 5 or 6 months. Guess what, when you can't practice for this long, you're not gonna have any results.
For the qualifiers I had a bit over a month of practice at the ProS house, but I was still not in good shape enough to be able to win it, and if I were to go to the qualifiers it would be to win. It wasn't going to happen this time, and I had more than enough experience playing in every single one of the previous qualifiers (except the one when I was in Europe for ESWC).
There also was no real coverage whatsover of the qualifiers this time so it's not like there was any exposure to get out of it for the team, instead of continuing the disappointments that were ESWC and PPSL I would rather get my skill level and my confidence in my game back, improve as much as possible and be ready to win the next qualifier.
I just find really disappointing that eSahara tries to discredit me like this, that they interpret me not going as a lack of motivation, sure no problem that's what they think, but to then try to make people think I'm not practising is just not something you do. Especially since I choose to stick with them when I had better options just because I felt they were going in the right direction and had the right ideas and that we could build something together. I was wrong, it was just talking. I could have things to say about what went wrong with eSahara and I, but I'm not gonna be that guy who crosses the line even though they went out of their way to spread misinformation about me.
It's fine, I know what I want and what I'm capable of, people who know me and know the details about all of this are supporting me, and those who don't have all the informations have to keep this in mind : they don't have all the informations.
So thanks to those who are still supporting me. The ones who are doubting me it's fine, it's just a matter of time before you are made wrong.
I know it, people who know me know it, eSahara knows it.
Just next time ... say it how it is : no results. Which I obviously understand, but that's all there is to it.
I'm not going into further details now, everything is gonna be covered in my next blogs when I get to that point. As for this issue there is not much more to say.
GL
GL in the future man. I agree, it's extremely unprofessional and childish for them to go out of their way to discredit you.
Hopefully people will take note of how ridiculous eSahara is. Citing all those reason to let you go, while recruiting gold league players...
Just be real people. You can't keep a player forever if they never produce any results. Afaik they are housing him in Korea? Or maybe he paid for himself but if they are I think they at least can make some demands and he probably didn't fulfill with not even trying to qualify. Imagine if this was a football club, he would've been gone a long time ago. Anyway I don't wanna sound like a complete hater because I don't actually know who cArn is, I've just read his name a few times but it's just about being realistic.
On January 12 2012 23:38 Agathon wrote: but if you put yourself in eSahara's shoes, you would have to ask yourself if it worth it.
They should have thought about that before they signed him.
They strike me as one of those teams that will sign anyone they've heard of given a chance. Their entire roster is a random collection of players that they picked up at random places and that they obviously know nothing or very little about.
When they signed cArn, he was somewhat known in the community and he was in Korea, so at the time it was a good choice for a completely new team. Now that they've managed to pick up Naama and the Koreans, they no longer need him any more.
It's such a fickle and petty management, but then again that's nothing new for organizations with counterstrike background.
Your complained works both ways, cArn himself would have known they had no place for him to stay, or did they fool him to sign a contract.
I would actually love to hear a clarification of whether or not carn knew this beforehand.
Then again, it might not even matter. If they failed to provide support and a practice environment from him, and then make expectations that, in order to be met, required him to practice, the blame still falls on them. Instead, they are blaming HIM for not practicing and presenting it as evidence for his lack of dedication.
Indeed we do not know the insight of the contract so it's only speculations but it bothers me that eSahara's get's the flame without people know what exactly is going on.
It's normal (and generally healthy) for most of the community to defend a player over an organization. I will always do this when there is not enough information either way - teams are businesses as they often times say themselves, and businesses should be under scrutiny at all times. It's up to them to keep their image clean, and it is not up to me to think about their interests.
eSahara should either clarify their position and fix the situation (if they do believe they are in the right) or deal with the negative comments. So that maybe in the future, they will think harder about which players they sign and release and consider all the implications before making any moves.
Wow, the more I hear about eSahara, the more it solidifies my impression that they (not the players) are really nasty people. They get players who they think will make them look good and get rid of long term players just because they haven't been achieving? What's more they're to blame for Carn being unable to play at his best. Really not impressed.
cArn is just full of shit guy stole famous cs players nickname and then tries to become pro-player and not practice in 5-6months LOL. Be real its not a fucking school where you just go and get the degree.
On January 13 2012 00:04 Yonnua wrote: Wow, the more I hear about eSahara, the more it solidifies my impression that they (not the players) are really nasty people. They get players who they think will make them look good and get rid of long term players just because they haven't been achieving? What's more they're to blame for Carn being unable to play at his best. Really not impressed.
Hey lets make a deal. I do some work for you and you pay me $. But after a month im not gonna work, cus i dont want to and i am terrble at doing that work. But if you fire me your a terrible person.
I feel bad for the guy but maybe it's time to move on? If you don't have what it takes, you don't have what it takes. Can't blame esahara for dropping dead weight.
On January 13 2012 00:06 Wazakhaq wrote: cArn is just full of shit guy stole famous cs players nickname and then tries to become pro-player and not practice in 5-6months LOL. Be real its not a fucking school where you just go and get the degree.
This is completely uncalled for, keep your shit talking out of the thread please. In this case, sure cArn hasn't posted results, but the way the statement is worded and eSahara's problems up until now I find it hard to beleive that they kicked him because of "lack of motivation." There are ways that you let a player go, and trashing them when you do it is unprofessional and not needed at all.
I think it's time for cArn to hang it up or move back to EU. He made it close in one of the GSL qualifiers, making it to the second to last round but ultimately failing. Dedicating yourself to 1.5 years in Korea for a game with no results can really set you back in life...... he used all his saved money to try and make his dream come true.
I knew this would happen too. cArn was one of the first person to join eSahara and after seeing eSahara add a lot of more known players, it's logical to think that they would try to drop their lesser known ones. It's a shame that they had to stoop so low and do it this way though.
On January 12 2012 23:38 Agathon wrote: but if you put yourself in eSahara's shoes, you would have to ask yourself if it worth it.
They should have thought about that before they signed him.
They strike me as one of those teams that will sign anyone they've heard of given a chance. Their entire roster is a random collection of players that they picked up at random places and that they obviously know nothing or very little about.
When they signed cArn, he was somewhat known in the community and he was in Korea, so at the time it was a good choice for a completely new team. Now that they've managed to pick up Naama and the Koreans, they no longer need him any more.
It's such a fickle and petty management, but then again that's nothing new for organizations with counterstrike background.
Your complained works both ways, cArn himself would have known they had no place for him to stay, or did they fool him to sign a contract.
I would actually love to hear a clarification of whether or not carn knew this beforehand.
Then again, it might not even matter. If they failed to provide support and a practice environment from him, and then make expectations that, in order to be met, required him to practice, the blame still falls on them. Instead, they are blaming HIM for not practicing and presenting it as evidence for his lack of dedication.
Indeed we do not know the insight of the contract so it's only speculations but it bothers me that eSahara's get's the flame without people know what exactly is going on.
It's normal (and generally healthy) for most of the community to defend a player over an organization. I will always do this when there is not enough information either way - teams are businesses, as they often times say themselves, and businesses should be under scrutiny. It's up to them to keep their image clean, and it is not up to me to think about their interests.
eSahara should either clarify their position and fix the situation (if they do believe they are in the right) or deal with the negative comments.
I actualy don't mind they give the reason that cArn did not practice enough for them. Unfortunatly they do not back that up with any evidence, something they should have, or it becomes nothing more then putting your former player in a bad light.
I just find the blind hate here rather disturbing, bringing up irrelivant past topics and make eSahara look like tools and an evil business. Let's be honest that's not true either.
nothing wrong with what esahara has done but how it is done is pretty much a dick move. it seems to me that the team pulled the plug on the player without any communication.
did they make clear to the player that he must try for code a preliminary regardless of his level of preparedness? did they talk to the player after hearing from the coach that he isnt practising like he should but instead playing dota? did they try to motivate the player upon conclusion that he is unmotivated.
ultimately is the parting of ways mutual? because it doesnt seem like it.
On January 12 2012 23:38 Agathon wrote: but if you put yourself in eSahara's shoes, you would have to ask yourself if it worth it.
They should have thought about that before they signed him.
They strike me as one of those teams that will sign anyone they've heard of given a chance. Their entire roster is a random collection of players that they picked up at random places and that they obviously know nothing or very little about.
When they signed cArn, he was somewhat known in the community and he was in Korea, so at the time it was a good choice for a completely new team. Now that they've managed to pick up Naama and the Koreans, they no longer need him any more.
It's such a fickle and petty management, but then again that's nothing new for organizations with counterstrike background.
Your complained works both ways, cArn himself would have known they had no place for him to stay, or did they fool him to sign a contract.
I would actually love to hear a clarification of whether or not carn knew this beforehand.
Then again, it might not even matter. If they failed to provide support and a practice environment from him, and then make expectations that, in order to be met, required him to practice, the blame still falls on them. Instead, they are blaming HIM for not practicing and presenting it as evidence for his lack of dedication.
Indeed we do not know the insight of the contract so it's only speculations but it bothers me that eSahara's get's the flame without people know what exactly is going on.
It's normal (and generally healthy) for most of the community to defend a player over an organization. I will always do this when there is not enough information either way - teams are businesses, as they often times say themselves, and businesses should be under scrutiny. It's up to them to keep their image clean, and it is not up to me to think about their interests.
eSahara should either clarify their position and fix the situation (if they do believe they are in the right) or deal with the negative comments.
I actualy don't mind they give the reason that cArn did not practice enough for them. Unfortunatly they do not back that up with any evidence, something they should have, or it becomes nothing more then putting your former player in a bad light.
I just find the blind hate here rather disturbing, bringing up irrelivant past topics and make eSahara look like tools and an evil business. Let's be honest that's not true either.
As far as I'm concerned, every business is evil until proven otherwise. xP
On January 12 2012 23:38 Agathon wrote: but if you put yourself in eSahara's shoes, you would have to ask yourself if it worth it.
They should have thought about that before they signed him.
They strike me as one of those teams that will sign anyone they've heard of given a chance. Their entire roster is a random collection of players that they picked up at random places and that they obviously know nothing or very little about.
When they signed cArn, he was somewhat known in the community and he was in Korea, so at the time it was a good choice for a completely new team. Now that they've managed to pick up Naama and the Koreans, they no longer need him any more.
It's such a fickle and petty management, but then again that's nothing new for organizations with counterstrike background.
Your complained works both ways, cArn himself would have known they had no place for him to stay, or did they fool him to sign a contract.
I would actually love to hear a clarification of whether or not carn knew this beforehand.
Then again, it might not even matter. If they failed to provide support and a practice environment from him, and then make expectations that, in order to be met, required him to practice, the blame still falls on them. Instead, they are blaming HIM for not practicing and presenting it as evidence for his lack of dedication.
Indeed we do not know the insight of the contract so it's only speculations but it bothers me that eSahara's get's the flame without people know what exactly is going on.
It's normal (and generally healthy) for most of the community to defend a player over an organization. I will always do this when there is not enough information either way - teams are businesses, as they often times say themselves, and businesses should be under scrutiny. It's up to them to keep their image clean, and it is not up to me to think about their interests.
eSahara should either clarify their position and fix the situation (if they do believe they are in the right) or deal with the negative comments.
I actualy don't mind they give the reason that cArn did not practice enough for them. Unfortunatly they do not back that up with any evidence, something they should have, or it becomes nothing more then putting your former player in a bad light.
I just find the blind hate here rather disturbing, bringing up irrelivant past topics and make eSahara look like tools and an evil business. Let's be honest that's not true either.
As far as I'm concerned, every business is evil until proven otherwise. xP
That's why your on a website of one of these evil teams ! I see let's keep that quiet.
Not going to take sides, but I do think that cArn needs to be in a Korean team to achieve his full potential. Goodluck cArn, hope a Korean team recognizes your work ethic and picks you up.
On January 12 2012 23:38 Agathon wrote: but if you put yourself in eSahara's shoes, you would have to ask yourself if it worth it.
They should have thought about that before they signed him.
They strike me as one of those teams that will sign anyone they've heard of given a chance. Their entire roster is a random collection of players that they picked up at random places and that they obviously know nothing or very little about.
When they signed cArn, he was somewhat known in the community and he was in Korea, so at the time it was a good choice for a completely new team. Now that they've managed to pick up Naama and the Koreans, they no longer need him any more.
It's such a fickle and petty management, but then again that's nothing new for organizations with counterstrike background.
Your complained works both ways, cArn himself would have known they had no place for him to stay, or did they fool him to sign a contract.
I would actually love to hear a clarification of whether or not carn knew this beforehand.
Then again, it might not even matter. If they failed to provide support and a practice environment from him, and then make expectations that, in order to be met, required him to practice, the blame still falls on them. Instead, they are blaming HIM for not practicing and presenting it as evidence for his lack of dedication.
Indeed we do not know the insight of the contract so it's only speculations but it bothers me that eSahara's get's the flame without people know what exactly is going on.
It's normal (and generally healthy) for most of the community to defend a player over an organization. I will always do this when there is not enough information either way - teams are businesses, as they often times say themselves, and businesses should be under scrutiny. It's up to them to keep their image clean, and it is not up to me to think about their interests.
eSahara should either clarify their position and fix the situation (if they do believe they are in the right) or deal with the negative comments.
I actualy don't mind they give the reason that cArn did not practice enough for them. Unfortunatly they do not back that up with any evidence, something they should have, or it becomes nothing more then putting your former player in a bad light.
I just find the blind hate here rather disturbing, bringing up irrelivant past topics and make eSahara look like tools and an evil business. Let's be honest that's not true either.
As far as I'm concerned, every business is evil until proven otherwise. xP
That's why your on a website of one of these evil teams ! I see let's keep that quiet.
Actually no. I said until proven otherwise, and this specific team/website has proven otherwise (with massive contribution to the community over the last decade and being the cornerstone of the starcraft scene).
True a business is there to make money not to for players with dedication(even though it can be their secondary objective). If carn didn't want to goto qualifiers it's like wasting the companies time investing in him. Should I be fired for not turning up to work and get paid for it? No I shouldn't be fired and should keep my job and continue not going to work and expect to get paid because I think I'm not skilled enough to do it . So Carn even he can be the most dedicated person to Starcraft, sadly unless an enormous amount of people are aware of it and gains a huge fan base because of it, it won't mean a thing to the company as ey probably make a loss out of it.
It's all about the money, the world we live in is getting by because somehow we humans are now being controlled by a number. Our life somehow depends on a number. It's sad and yet a number makes us so greedy.
Reading Carns blog he seems very under prepared coming with only a laptop. I think his best option is to return home train hardcore on korean ladder (seems he does it in Korea anyways) or train with some people and popularized himself this way. However this is his choice and I guess he was fearless to do so. Then again I left my job to change my career path as well and 7 months later I make $80k in a business where I only spent $99 to invest on. Did people think I was stupid? Yes but dedication and hardworking brought me there and hope to make like 200k by end of this year? Do u think I'm stupid for think that? Probably but who cares I learnt so much from a field that I had absolutely no skill in to become someone that had this ability to do something. So carn believe in hardworking and determination, perfection is key here, I hope perfects all his error he has and prove once again that hard work is achievable. Oh wait I forgot Koreans are also hardworking and determined so it cancels out carn
Too many people won't do things because of only 2 things: fear and laziness. Get past that and believe.
On January 12 2012 23:38 Agathon wrote: but if you put yourself in eSahara's shoes, you would have to ask yourself if it worth it.
They should have thought about that before they signed him.
They strike me as one of those teams that will sign anyone they've heard of given a chance. Their entire roster is a random collection of players that they picked up at random places and that they obviously know nothing or very little about.
When they signed cArn, he was somewhat known in the community and he was in Korea, so at the time it was a good choice for a completely new team. Now that they've managed to pick up Naama and the Koreans, they no longer need him any more.
It's such a fickle and petty management, but then again that's nothing new for organizations with counterstrike background.
Your complained works both ways, cArn himself would have known they had no place for him to stay, or did they fool him to sign a contract.
I would actually love to hear a clarification of whether or not carn knew this beforehand.
Then again, it might not even matter. If they failed to provide support and a practice environment from him, and then make expectations that, in order to be met, required him to practice, the blame still falls on them. Instead, they are blaming HIM for not practicing and presenting it as evidence for his lack of dedication.
Indeed we do not know the insight of the contract so it's only speculations but it bothers me that eSahara's get's the flame without people know what exactly is going on.
It's normal (and generally healthy) for most of the community to defend a player over an organization. I will always do this when there is not enough information either way - teams are businesses, as they often times say themselves, and businesses should be under scrutiny. It's up to them to keep their image clean, and it is not up to me to think about their interests.
eSahara should either clarify their position and fix the situation (if they do believe they are in the right) or deal with the negative comments.
I actualy don't mind they give the reason that cArn did not practice enough for them. Unfortunatly they do not back that up with any evidence, something they should have, or it becomes nothing more then putting your former player in a bad light.
I just find the blind hate here rather disturbing, bringing up irrelivant past topics and make eSahara look like tools and an evil business. Let's be honest that's not true either.
I don't recall reading anywhere that eSahara stated that cArn didn't practice enough rather that he didn't attend the qualifiers.
As for your diplomatic stance and bringing up irrelevant past/blind hate. Where? They're a business who wants to try and make money through esports, their PR sucks and they deserve to be shelled for it. Any repputable organization that releases a player includes his or her statement thats 1 strike.
After cArn bringing to light that they supported him with next to 0 for nearly 5 monthes is 2, and the fact that they are some fly by night orgazation is pushing strike 3.
They signed 2 decent beta Koreans and sent 2 players to Korea. Thats the only "irrelevant past" hence the fly by night.
I'm with cArn on this one, and I would be lieing to say that I'm indifferent toward future endeavors of eSahara.
On January 13 2012 00:01 DwD wrote: Just be real people. You can't keep a player forever if they never produce any results. Afaik they are housing him in Korea? Or maybe he paid for himself but if they are I think they at least can make some demands and he probably didn't fulfill with not even trying to qualify. Imagine if this was a football club, he would've been gone a long time ago. Anyway I don't wanna sound like a complete hater because I don't actually know who cArn is, I've just read his name a few times but it's just about being realistic.
You're from Sweden so I am assuming that when you say football you talk about euro football which in this analogy it doesn't really matter. Their are players in American football and soccer that never play a game but are just as much part of the team as anyone else.
You can't be MORE signed than anyone else.
And you want to talk about realism, they signed 2 korean beta players who have since fallen off and sent 2 players to Korea. Naama who placed 8th at Dreamhack being his highest and most notable achievement and Deathangel who doesn't have any legitimate accomplishments.
BEING REALISTIC they aren't going to achieve anything. I would be suprised to even see the seasoned beta koreans qualified for Code A.
edit: and that isn't an emotional judgement call referring my beliefs that stems from my disliking of eSahara, it is just truth.
Wow, I was willing to give eSahara the benefit of the doubt on some the other things they have done that seem "unprofessional" but dropping cArn like this really makes me reconsider.
On January 13 2012 00:01 DwD wrote: Just be real people. You can't keep a player forever if they never produce any results. Afaik they are housing him in Korea? Or maybe he paid for himself but if they are I think they at least can make some demands and he probably didn't fulfill with not even trying to qualify. Imagine if this was a football club, he would've been gone a long time ago. Anyway I don't wanna sound like a complete hater because I don't actually know who cArn is, I've just read his name a few times but it's just about being realistic.
You're from Sweden so I am assuming that when you say football you talk about euro football which in this analogy it doesn't really matter. Their are players in American football and soccer that never play a game but are just as much part of the team as anyone else.
You can't be MORE signed than anyone else.
And you want to talk about realism, they signed 2 korean beta players who have since fallen off and sent 2 players to Korea. Naama who placed 8th at Dreamhack being his highest and most notable achievement and Deathangel who doesn't have any legitimate accomplishments.
BEING REALISTIC they aren't going to achieve anything. I would be suprised to even see the seasoned beta koreans qualified for Code A.
i thought naama's best achievement was winning a dreamhack
No results, I never hear about this guy and not even trying to get to GSL? You cant have players in your team forever, in jobs too you get fired if you are bad. Simple as that.
eSahara is turning into a joke more and more. Their statements are unprofessional as hell they switch players more than some players switch teams. I like carn's statement on the matter and I hope he can achieve his goals with another better team.
On January 13 2012 00:01 DwD wrote: Just be real people. You can't keep a player forever if they never produce any results. Afaik they are housing him in Korea? Or maybe he paid for himself but if they are I think they at least can make some demands and he probably didn't fulfill with not even trying to qualify. Imagine if this was a football club, he would've been gone a long time ago. Anyway I don't wanna sound like a complete hater because I don't actually know who cArn is, I've just read his name a few times but it's just about being realistic.
You're from Sweden so I am assuming that when you say football you talk about euro football which in this analogy it doesn't really matter. Their are players in American football and soccer that never play a game but are just as much part of the team as anyone else.
You can't be MORE signed than anyone else.
And you want to talk about realism, they signed 2 korean beta players who have since fallen off and sent 2 players to Korea. Naama who placed 8th at Dreamhack being his highest and most notable achievement and Deathangel who doesn't have any legitimate accomplishments.
BEING REALISTIC they aren't going to achieve anything. I would be suprised to even see the seasoned beta koreans qualified for Code A.
i thought naama's best achievement was winning a dreamhack
Yeah Enron's highest achievement was 90 dollars a share 2 years before the paper vanished and left copper.
On January 12 2012 20:36 Tidus Mino wrote: Your post is really bias, and it's obvious you are affiliated with eSahara. If he felt he would get crushed in the qualifiers, of course he would not want to try as to lose badly would be hugely demotivating.
LOL i have nothing to do with eSahara, i just don't like the fact that there is so much hate around this team. I was very sceptical about this team when they started but they are looking to be a team that is there to stay.
Thing is, going to the qualifier is just one day, even if you don't think you will qualify, it's always good to take the tournament experience and i don't understand why he wouldn't even try.
No comment about the team's future.
I agree it doesn't hurt to go and it can be a good experience, but this being the last straw for dropping a player?
On January 12 2012 20:30 Marou wrote: I think this is a sad news, even if cArn has never reach any success, his sacrifice and motivation are inspiring to all other gamers. I don't understand why he didn't even tried to qualify... I hope he stays in Korea and manage to be on GSL one day...although i totally understand the position of eSahara, this is not an acceptable behavior for a progamer.
you have nothing to do with the team, yet u fell in the position to judge cArn for the 3 lines of statement that eSahara gave? Just stop it.
Keep it neutral in the OP; such things make me angry, and just show 0 respect for a player who dedicated a year of his life for sc2.
On January 12 2012 20:36 Tidus Mino wrote: Your post is really bias, and it's obvious you are affiliated with eSahara. If he felt he would get crushed in the qualifiers, of course he would not want to try as to lose badly would be hugely demotivating.
LOL i have nothing to do with eSahara, i just don't like the fact that there is so much hate around this team. I was very sceptical about this team when they started but they are looking to be a team that is there to stay.
Thing is, going to the qualifier is just one day, even if you don't think you will qualify, it's always good to take the tournament experience and i don't understand why he wouldn't even try.
No comment about the team's future.
I agree it doesn't hurt to go and it can be a good experience, but this being the last straw for dropping a player?
Loosey-goosey.
I think they put a lot more thought into it than whats appearing. They stated themsevles. They spoke with the ProS/RS house manager about carn and his performance. The manager had said that carn was not really playing that much and not putting in any hours, much perferring to play dota instead.
The looking at the fact he didn't auctally go to qualifers, eSahara must have felt somewhat like carn was wasting the teams resources to play dota when he should be playing sc2.
Maybe the way eSahara let him go wasn't perfect. But I understand their reasons.
look like Carn was wasting there resources and got dropped, no results , and quite frankely never heard any of this guy doing well in anything not even online tournaments. Also manager of pro house said carn wasting time playing Dota lol dunno why people saying esahara is bad , what unprofessional is getting paid to be a pro gamer and then playing Dota on team house.
Of course it's an accumulation of things, but when you state it the way they did. It comes off poorly.
When you release a player you don't have to provide the public with a reason at all and if you do state the team is going in a different direction. ._.
On January 12 2012 22:13 mTw|NarutO wrote: It does not matter what he does sacrifice. His passion does not matter in terms of being a progamer. If he thinks so low of himself or just very high of others and that makes him not even try, he's just not progamer material.
Its not about not falling, its about rising again. GL to cArn, I don't understand his decision.
you can be happy, mTw is not like eSahara. They were obviously just looking for something to get him out of the team.
On January 13 2012 01:12 momonami5 wrote: look like Carn was wasting there resources and got dropped, no results , and quite frankely never heard any of this guy doing well in anything not even online tournaments. Also manager of pro house said carn wasting time playing Dota lol dunno why people saying esahara is bad , what unprofessional is getting paid to be a pro gamer and then playing Dota on team house.
On January 12 2012 22:13 mTw|NarutO wrote: It does not matter what he does sacrifice. His passion does not matter in terms of being a progamer. If he thinks so low of himself or just very high of others and that makes him not even try, he's just not progamer material.
Its not about not falling, its about rising again. GL to cArn, I don't understand his decision.
you can be happy, mTw is not like eSahara. They were obviously just looking for something to get him out of the team.
lol wtf naruto has a full time job and his situation is not even close to being similar
carn just never had ANY results whatsoever so thats a good reason to kick him out of the team by itself as i posted earlier: even maddelisk has had more top 3 finishes (eventhough it was only online female cups but at leas SOMETHING)
Poor carn. Is it just me or does esahara seem like a very self important team? All they care about is PR and they don't show any actual results. Maybe if they took care of carn and let him practice the way he needs to, they'd actually get results. Right now they just seem like a bitchy teenager who's complaining about their 2010 mercedes being too out-of-date.
Was wondering why carn was stuck in a roster with no results for so long. Not attempting to qualify after months and months on end in Korea is pretty saddening if you ask me.
Well, there was probably more behind that decision than what is made public.
Anyways, hard to tell why they really axed carn, I am not well informed enough about the european leagues to say where the other players on the roster stand like skill- and result-wise.
On January 12 2012 20:42 gregnog wrote: Dont worry they have.... Madelisk?
fun fact: madde lisk has more achievements than carn lol (2 times 3rd in iron lady cup while carn has no top 3 finish)
more seriously: they have still naama deathangel satiini and check who all of them probably are quite a bit better thatn carn
Well, he doesn't really need a top 3 finish to have better results than placing 3rd in iron lady. But yeah, he has no results to speak of at this moment, so maddelisk is above him in that regard.
On January 13 2012 01:12 momonami5 wrote: look like Carn was wasting there resources and got dropped, no results , and quite frankely never heard any of this guy doing well in anything not even online tournaments. Also manager of pro house said carn wasting time playing Dota lol dunno why people saying esahara is bad , what unprofessional is getting paid to be a pro gamer and then playing Dota on team house.
On January 12 2012 22:13 mTw|NarutO wrote: It does not matter what he does sacrifice. His passion does not matter in terms of being a progamer. If he thinks so low of himself or just very high of others and that makes him not even try, he's just not progamer material.
Its not about not falling, its about rising again. GL to cArn, I don't understand his decision.
you can be happy, mTw is not like eSahara. They were obviously just looking for something to get him out of the team.
lol wtf naruto has a full time job and his situation is not even close to being similar
carn just never had ANY results whatsoever so thats a good reason to kick him out of the team by itself as i posted earlier: even maddelisk has had more top 3 finishes (eventhough it was only online female cups but at leas SOMETHING)
they have free time to do what they want, but the manager said carn playing dota all day lol not even training that diff from playing some dota on your free time.
pretty simple concept here
work 8-5 and play dota during that time, get fired
8-5 play dota and stream after your training time. perfectly fine.
cArn has been in korea for so long without results, he had this coming and honestly should quit sc2 or just play casually. Imo hes wasting his precious time...
I guess it would have been better for the team to release a standard PR statement instead of giving the actual reason (from their point of view) to his release. But I don't know, I like having actual information and in this case I think that it's justified: Carn has absolutely no results, has not shown sign of progress in 7month and now doesn't think he is even good enough to play in the qualifiers? I have nothing against him, I liked his blogs but at one point a team is running a business, if your player doesn't give you any reason to think that you're going to have a return on investment, you should not keep the player in your team.
On January 12 2012 23:38 Agathon wrote: but if you put yourself in eSahara's shoes, you would have to ask yourself if it worth it.
They should have thought about that before they signed him.
They strike me as one of those teams that will sign anyone they've heard of given a chance. Their entire roster is a random collection of players that they picked up at random places and that they obviously know nothing or very little about.
When they signed cArn, he was somewhat known in the community and he was in Korea, so at the time it was a good choice for a completely new team. Now that they've managed to pick up Naama and the Koreans, they no longer need him any more.
It's such a fickle and petty management, but then again that's nothing new for organizations with counterstrike background.
Your complained works both ways, cArn himself would have known they had no place for him to stay, or did they fool him to sign a contract.
I would actually love to hear a clarification of whether or not carn knew this beforehand.
Then again, it might not even matter. If they failed to provide support and a practice environment from him, and then make expectations that, in order to be met, required him to practice, the blame still falls on them. Instead, they are blaming HIM for not practicing and presenting it as evidence for his lack of dedication.
Indeed we do not know the insight of the contract so it's only speculations but it bothers me that eSahara's get's the flame without people know what exactly is going on.
It's normal (and generally healthy) for most of the community to defend a player over an organization. I will always do this when there is not enough information either way - teams are businesses, as they often times say themselves, and businesses should be under scrutiny. It's up to them to keep their image clean, and it is not up to me to think about their interests.
eSahara should either clarify their position and fix the situation (if they do believe they are in the right) or deal with the negative comments.
I actualy don't mind they give the reason that cArn did not practice enough for them. Unfortunatly they do not back that up with any evidence, something they should have, or it becomes nothing more then putting your former player in a bad light.
I just find the blind hate here rather disturbing, bringing up irrelivant past topics and make eSahara look like tools and an evil business. Let's be honest that's not true either.
I don't recall reading anywhere that eSahara stated that cArn didn't practice enough rather that he didn't attend the qualifiers.
As for your diplomatic stance and bringing up irrelevant past/blind hate. Where? They're a business who wants to try and make money through esports, their PR sucks and they deserve to be shelled for it. Any repputable organization that releases a player includes his or her statement thats 1 strike.
After cArn bringing to light that they supported him with next to 0 for nearly 5 monthes is 2, and the fact that they are some fly by night orgazation is pushing strike 3.
They signed 2 decent beta Koreans and sent 2 players to Korea. Thats the only "irrelevant past" hence the fly by night.
I'm with cArn on this one, and I would be lieing to say that I'm indifferent toward future endeavors of eSahara.
On January 12 2012 20:36 Tidus Mino wrote: Your post is really bias, and it's obvious you are affiliated with eSahara. If he felt he would get crushed in the qualifiers, of course he would not want to try as to lose badly would be hugely demotivating.
He's not eSahara related, and cArn didn't practice past few month, we can't keep a player not showing any dedication.
On January 12 2012 20:42 gregnog wrote: Dont worry they have.... Madelisk?
MaddeLisk trains very hard with Naama, Jimpo, Naugrim, Satiini, Check... and is really involved into eSahara's team life. And she's in the talented line up whereas cArn was considered as pro. I personally have a lot of respect for cArn, i consider him as a friend, but he didn't show anything good since he's in eSahara.
Dopani (RS manager/proS manager) told that cArn wasn't practincing and playing DotA. Based on his ladder rank, cArn is not training that hard for now.
Right here on page 2. People don't read threads.
I'm posting that statement again since so many people are telling eSahara should justify their position. Seems like they did, a bit.
Honestly? He made a choice that reflected his position as a gamer.
eSahara made a mistake imho. Isn't respecting your players something a team should do? If he felt his skills weren't up to par then he felt he would make a bad showing for the team in general which is something that I am sure any other team would respect as they do not want to look bad.
They shouldn't have cited lack of motivation, but kept it at lack of results and nothing else. I don't blame them for getting rid of a player who did not accomplish anything, but they should not bash him.
cArn shouldn't be playing this game professionally tbh. If u are in Korea for more then a year practicing and still don't have any resultst to build on it's best to just quit trying to be pro IMO. U still have to make a living at the end of the day...
Wtf is up with eSahara. When you cut a player, you just cut a player. You wish them the best of luck and that's it. Employers should not go spouting off about their employees on a forum. It's just so unprofessional, you don't see most of the other large teams doing anything like that.
I think cArn should just take a step back from SC2 and just play it as a hobby. After over a year w/o much skill progression or results, he should try doing something else for a career.
This is hilarious how people react to eSahara's statement. When an organisation makes empty statement about something people complain about the lack of transparency, want to know more etc... eSahara explains why they realease cArn, and then get blamed for their transparency. How absurd.
eSahara did some mistakes lately, but in an other way : They gave to cArn the possibility to train. They give to naama and deathangel a chance to play in Korea. They are getting a good lineup.
i don't get why people are defending him if he's been in korea for almost 2 years with 0 results... the only reason i even know his name is because people talk about how he lives there and has NO results why would a team keep that
If I didn't feel like show up for work or was incompetant/bad at work I'd face disciplinary action. Why should E-Sports be different?
Is Carn representing ESahara's sponsors by not playing at tournaments and posting literally no results at all? I don't mean winning GSL's or even qualifying for Code A but you need to be winning or playing in tournaments somewhere. Even guys like Tyler and Incontrol who take so much abuse from the community have been seeded into MLG Pool Play they've been active in playing tournaments and making content for the community. Carn has to my knowledge tried to qualify for GSL a load of times and played in a handful of online tournaments at most (with no results) in a year of playing Sc2. There's no return on investment in that.
On January 13 2012 02:06 Jakkerr wrote: cArn shouldn't be playing this game professionally tbh. If u are in Korea for more then a year practicing and still don't have any resultst to build on it's best to just quit trying to be pro IMO. U still have to make a living at the end of the day...
This is a terrible mindset. What about Jinro? He had results at the very beginning of the year but since his January Code S Ro4 he hasn't had good results in Korea or outside of Korea. But like cArn, Jinro is still in Korea training, because he has dedication.
On January 13 2012 02:06 Jakkerr wrote: cArn shouldn't be playing this game professionally tbh. If u are in Korea for more then a year practicing and still don't have any resultst to build on it's best to just quit trying to be pro IMO. U still have to make a living at the end of the day...
This is a terrible mindset. What about Jinro? He had results at the very beginning of the year but since his January Code S Ro4 he hasn't had good results in Korea or outside of Korea. But like cArn, Jinro is still in Korea training, because he has dedication.
On January 12 2012 23:38 Agathon wrote: but if you put yourself in eSahara's shoes, you would have to ask yourself if it worth it.
They should have thought about that before they signed him.
They strike me as one of those teams that will sign anyone they've heard of given a chance. Their entire roster is a random collection of players that they picked up at random places and that they obviously know nothing or very little about.
When they signed cArn, he was somewhat known in the community and he was in Korea, so at the time it was a good choice for a completely new team. Now that they've managed to pick up Naama and the Koreans, they no longer need him any more.
It's such a fickle and petty management, but then again that's nothing new for organizations with counterstrike background.
Your complained works both ways, cArn himself would have known they had no place for him to stay, or did they fool him to sign a contract.
I would actually love to hear a clarification of whether or not carn knew this beforehand.
Then again, it might not even matter. If they failed to provide support and a practice environment from him, and then make expectations that, in order to be met, required him to practice, the blame still falls on them. Instead, they are blaming HIM for not practicing and presenting it as evidence for his lack of dedication.
Indeed we do not know the insight of the contract so it's only speculations but it bothers me that eSahara's get's the flame without people know what exactly is going on.
It's normal (and generally healthy) for most of the community to defend a player over an organization. I will always do this when there is not enough information either way - teams are businesses, as they often times say themselves, and businesses should be under scrutiny. It's up to them to keep their image clean, and it is not up to me to think about their interests.
eSahara should either clarify their position and fix the situation (if they do believe they are in the right) or deal with the negative comments.
I actualy don't mind they give the reason that cArn did not practice enough for them. Unfortunatly they do not back that up with any evidence, something they should have, or it becomes nothing more then putting your former player in a bad light.
I just find the blind hate here rather disturbing, bringing up irrelivant past topics and make eSahara look like tools and an evil business. Let's be honest that's not true either.
I don't recall reading anywhere that eSahara stated that cArn didn't practice enough rather that he didn't attend the qualifiers.
As for your diplomatic stance and bringing up irrelevant past/blind hate. Where? They're a business who wants to try and make money through esports, their PR sucks and they deserve to be shelled for it. Any repputable organization that releases a player includes his or her statement thats 1 strike.
After cArn bringing to light that they supported him with next to 0 for nearly 5 monthes is 2, and the fact that they are some fly by night orgazation is pushing strike 3.
They signed 2 decent beta Koreans and sent 2 players to Korea. Thats the only "irrelevant past" hence the fly by night.
I'm with cArn on this one, and I would be lieing to say that I'm indifferent toward future endeavors of eSahara.
E-Sports is about marketing not winning. You don't need to win tournaments to be of value to your team you need to get your name out there. The more people who know who you are the more you're worth to a team. Now obviously winning tournaments is a massive help but a guy like Naama is a well known player in the scene. He's not going to win a major LAN but most fans of Sc2 (not the kind who watch Husky and only know Idra and Huk) know who Naama is, so they know ESahara so maybe they visit ESahara website, check out their sponsors etc.. Naama does not need to win a GSL for ESahara to get a return on their investment with him.
MVP is the best player in the world, everyone agrees on this. But is he worth more to a team than Idra? Purely in marketing terms probably not. A guy like Losira is also a better player than Idra but he's definitely not worth more.
So when Carn sits in a house in Korea not playing in any tournaments, making content or qualifying for GSL how much do you think he is worth to his team? Very little indeed.
It's funny how people complain when teams release cookie cutter explanations, "we were going in different directions so we decided to part ways,"
and now when a team actually posts the reasons they removed someone from their team everyone bitches?
eSahara didn't handle it quite well, and even if it isn't true, their belief is what matters. They believed that he didn't put in enough effort. If you're not putting effort and not getting results == kicked from the team. That's what they said. They were actually 100% transparent, more so than almost every other team. And yet, when people now hear the real reason they complain.
If eShara had said, "well, cArn and us decided to go a different direction," people would still be complaining and asking for the real reason.
On January 13 2012 02:06 Jakkerr wrote: cArn shouldn't be playing this game professionally tbh. If u are in Korea for more then a year practicing and still don't have any resultst to build on it's best to just quit trying to be pro IMO. U still have to make a living at the end of the day...
This is a terrible mindset. What about Jinro? He had results at the very beginning of the year but since his January Code S Ro4 he hasn't had good results in Korea or outside of Korea. But like cArn, Jinro is still in Korea training, because he has dedication.
Jinro can beat top players while carn cannot.
Jinro hasn't beaten many top players since he fell out of GSL.
It's really sad for him. I don't get why so much people shit on him because he didn't post result. Of course he did not do well in ESWC, since he had no proper training for a long time... However when he was practicing in the GOMHouse, he had a good MMR, being matched with the likes of FruitDealer (who was not that "bad" at the time, maybe low/mid GM mmr? that's still good for KR server) and Haypro, etc... but then he had no house to practice in. Thus he got flamed/trolled for nothing (especially on the french sites) for his "bad performance".
I really hope that what he said in this thread is true, basically that he is still motivated and has started practicing again to become in shape, because even tho I don't really follow his stream (too many awesome koreans terrans out there so when you don't got enough time for streams...) I hope to see him one day in code A.
About eSahara's decision, it's not a good or bad decision : if they dropped him because of the lack of results, they should have expected it since when you are in korea there is not anything to do besides GSL (and the KSL now! which is awesome but when you are not in a korean team...), and seeing how hard and rare code A qualifiers are (NO foreigner EVER went past the code A qualifiers) you get this situation. We don't know how hard he practices right now so we should not judge either him or eSahara's decision, anyways I hope that he will still try hard, keep fighting cArn :D.
Oh and by the way it has been noticed already, but eSahara's international statements are kinda meh, english-wise. They should hire someone to translate properly because not anyone knows that they are a serious team, and this relatively bad english in their news hurt their image quite a bit imo
On January 13 2012 03:04 Xeris wrote: It's funny how people complain when teams release cookie cutter explanations, "we were going in different directions so we decided to part ways,"
and now when a team actually posts the reasons they removed someone from their team everyone bitches?
eSahara didn't handle it quite well, and even if it isn't true, their belief is what matters. They believed that he didn't put in enough effort. If you're not putting effort and not getting results == kicked from the team. That's what they said. They were actually 100% transparent, more so than almost every other team. And yet, when people now hear the real reason they complain.
If eShara had said, "well, cArn and us decided to go a different direction," people would still be complaining and asking for the real reason.
People will always complain, no matter what... The organization has to figure it out themselves when to release more information or less. You can't please everyone.
From reading the OP all I got is cArn couldn't practice (at a team house) for 6 months therefore his form is bad and eSahara expected him to win during this time. He was let go because of his lack of dedication (and refusal try and qualify for gsl) even though I assume getting into proS house would have been an improvement.
I assume with any conflict, there was a miscommunication or a lack of communication on where cArn stood.
Thems the breaks.
Best of luck to cArn.
**edit: I understand eSahara's decision since they r trying to run a business, just stinks since from my POV cArn really isn't at fault for his form.
On January 13 2012 03:04 Xeris wrote: It's funny how people complain when teams release cookie cutter explanations, "we were going in different directions so we decided to part ways,"
and now when a team actually posts the reasons they removed someone from their team everyone bitches?
eSahara didn't handle it quite well, and even if it isn't true, their belief is what matters. They believed that he didn't put in enough effort. If you're not putting effort and not getting results == kicked from the team. That's what they said. They were actually 100% transparent, more so than almost every other team. And yet, when people now hear the real reason they complain.
If eShara had said, "well, cArn and us decided to go a different direction," people would still be complaining and asking for the real reason.
I do like the transparency. Stating the real reason they did it is one thing they actually did right and that I can respect. Unfortunately that doesn't make the reason itself any more agreeable. And let's be honest, the only reason teams come up with "different directions" in the first place is because they know that the real reasons wouldn't be so widely accepted in the community.
In a lot of cases it will be a lose-lose situation for the teams, but it's a situation they got themselves in and they only have themselves to blame (in this case, signing a player they don't believe in). The community should stand behind the player, at a fundamental level all of them are basically one of us. They are passionate about the game, they are committed to it, and they are the pillars of the community.
The teams and organizations should tread carefully when it comes to making controversial moves, deal with the negative publicity it happens, and making it a higher priority to avoid it in the future. It takes guts to actually come out clean and state the real reasons for that, that's admirable and it can buy them some sympathy points, but it doesn't make them immune to criticism related to the actual issue.
Never heard of eSahara before their recent aqcuisition controvesy so it would be very weird to kick someone because of lack of results (cArns hypothesis). It's not like it would be a stain on their reputation or anything. Actually I guess this move would be.
I really liked cArn's stream. I think his results doesn't give justice to his play.
But I also respect eSahara's decision. (Not their comment on cArn's motivation) It is hard do release a player, mostly because of community backslash. I think sc2 teams fear to release players too much.
Not too surprised by this. Carn havent done anything tbh and if you dont sign up for tournaments (Code A Qualifiers) then there's no reason for a team to have you.
On January 13 2012 03:46 Balgrog wrote: Why was he "banned" from the GOM house? I would think they would ask him to leave or something for the FXO guys, but banned? Anyone know what he did?
He wasnt banned as far as I know, they just ran out of room when the FXO team came. He wasn't really doing anything noteworthy so they 'kicked him out' because FXO came, but not for anything he did personally as far as I know.
Here is what I feel is a more exact translation of the post made by eSahara. The content isn't changed much in terms of understanding, jsut a few little things for those interested.
Carn alongside Fury were the first players to join eSahara on their Starcraft endeavor.
Seven months later, while eSahara is expanding, cArn was in a delicate situation, living in south korea, he was expulsed from the GOM house, in order to create space for the FOX players. This long period without being able to practice brought disappointing results at ESWC and PPSL.
After playing a few months in the ProS House, cArn did not want to go to the latest GSL qualifications estimating that his current gaming level would not suffice to win the necessary matches.
Following what was interpreted as a lack of motivation eSahara has decided to part ways with cArn, who is not implicated in any team leagues (due to lag caused by the different zoning)
eSahara hopes good fortune to cArn in his quest to the GSL as well as his search for a new team.
On January 13 2012 02:06 Jakkerr wrote: cArn shouldn't be playing this game professionally tbh. If u are in Korea for more then a year practicing and still don't have any resultst to build on it's best to just quit trying to be pro IMO. U still have to make a living at the end of the day...
This is a terrible mindset. What about Jinro? He had results at the very beginning of the year but since his January Code S Ro4 he hasn't had good results in Korea or outside of Korea. But like cArn, Jinro is still in Korea training, because he has dedication.
Jinro can beat top players while carn cannot.
No he can't lol, certainly not on a consistant basis atleast...
On January 13 2012 03:04 Xeris wrote: It's funny how people complain when teams release cookie cutter explanations, "we were going in different directions so we decided to part ways,"
and now when a team actually posts the reasons they removed someone from their team everyone bitches?
eSahara didn't handle it quite well, and even if it isn't true, their belief is what matters. They believed that he didn't put in enough effort. If you're not putting effort and not getting results == kicked from the team. That's what they said. They were actually 100% transparent, more so than almost every other team. And yet, when people now hear the real reason they complain.
If eShara had said, "well, cArn and us decided to go a different direction," people would still be complaining and asking for the real reason.
The difference is that it's just morons who complain about teams not releasing all the information, in a business like this you SHOULDN'T. If people complain about that then let them be moronic. Dirt-talking a player like this is wrong wether or not TL whines about it.
On January 13 2012 02:06 Jakkerr wrote: cArn shouldn't be playing this game professionally tbh. If u are in Korea for more then a year practicing and still don't have any resultst to build on it's best to just quit trying to be pro IMO. U still have to make a living at the end of the day...
This is a terrible mindset. What about Jinro? He had results at the very beginning of the year but since his January Code S Ro4 he hasn't had good results in Korea or outside of Korea. But like cArn, Jinro is still in Korea training, because he has dedication.
Why is it a terrible mindset? cArn has no results, I can't imagine he makes any money and has a very limited fanbase. You can try to build that up but sometimes things just don't go exactly how you had planned them. If u practice in Korea for almost 2 years without sucess it's probably never gonna happen. Might aswell stop and work on a future.
I find it amusing how many people are viewing the team-player relationship in e-sports. In every other professional sporting pursuit, the player's job is to make contributions to the team, or else he runs the risk of being cut/fired. Yet many in this thread are proposing the opposite relationship here; that it is the team's job to make contributions to the player.
A team should be providing a proper practice environment and try to accomodate the players, but in the end it is the player's job to contribute to the team. They are the employee, the team the employer. I'm not sure why it gets reversed so often when people discuss e-sports teams.
When a team fires a player for not producing results, I'm surprised the team is getting such backlash. In the absense of other information, it should be the player who is seen as at fault. To say its not cArn's fault he isn't playing well is rediculous, and if thats the case, its hard to call him a "pro-gamer". If someone is a pro-gamer it is literally their job to play well. If they aren't playing well enough to earn a living then they really aren't a professional.
On January 12 2012 20:34 RPR_Tempest wrote: If that is honestly the reason they dropped him, then that's fucking bullshit. cArn is an incredibly hard working player. He decides not to attend ONE TIME and they drop him even though he's sacrificed everything to try and participate in GSL? What the fuck, eSahara.
EDIT: If you're going to be disrespectful and say shit like "Who cares, cArn has achieved nothing."
They sent him over there to participate and atleast try to qualify. If he had just dont that even if he though everyone was better then he'd still be on a team. But not even attempting a try is terrible cause it wasnt his own money going into him being sent there, and to live there.He wasted his teams money by not going an if I were management I would've dropped him also feeling extreamly betrayed. I know my skills are nowhere near good enough to even walk through the door at GSL though if someone were paying for me to be there god knows I'd show up. So no it's not bullshit cause when people dont do their job at work they get fired. He didnt do his job and now he has to suffer through the consequences of his actions. No ill will should fall upon eSahara for they were doing what any other team would or atleast shouldve done. They can't be wasting their own money on players who aren't doing what they were sent to do.
On January 13 2012 02:06 Jakkerr wrote: cArn shouldn't be playing this game professionally tbh. If u are in Korea for more then a year practicing and still don't have any resultst to build on it's best to just quit trying to be pro IMO. U still have to make a living at the end of the day...
This is a terrible mindset. What about Jinro? He had results at the very beginning of the year but since his January Code S Ro4 he hasn't had good results in Korea or outside of Korea. But like cArn, Jinro is still in Korea training, because he has dedication.
Why is it a terrible mindset? cArn has no results, I can't imagine he makes any money and has a very limited fanbase. You can try to build that up but sometimes things just don't go exactly how you had planned them. If u practice in Korea for almost 2 years without sucess it's probably never gonna happen. Might aswell stop and work on a future.
Do you realize that there are quite a lot of korean that live in a prohouse and just have not been able to qualify for Code A for over a year ? Does that mean they should stop playing the game ? No. So taking into account the fact that he hasn't been able to practice for 5-6 months... It's not like he participated in every playhem cup and never passed the first round. C'mon Code A qualifiers is one of the hardest tournament out there.
On January 12 2012 23:39 Muki wrote: Well tbh who did not see this coming? Just because someone decides to live in Korea does not mean they have what it takes to be an SC2 pro let alone qualify for GSL. Tried, failed, end of story. Of course the only way to see is by making the effort, which is commendable but hey it's 2012 already.
Just because someone decides to live in Korea doesn't mean they get access to training partners or a decent place to practice. It's not as black and white as either you try and win or try and fail. There's lots of circumstances that affect the outcome.
On January 12 2012 23:04 k!llua wrote: cArn is at the stage where being in Korea is no longer, and most likely hasn't been for quite some time, beneficial.
he should return to Europe, decide if he wants to keep playing and go from there. he doesn't bring anything to the table PR wise and he has absolutely no results as a player.
there is no point in a professional gaming team keeping a pro gamer that doesn't can't meet the basic standards of a pro-gamer.
he's not good enough, plain and simple. that doesn't mean he won't be in the future - but it's probably best for all concerned if they sever ties, and if carn leaves korea for a while. it simply hasn't worked.
I love how you, K!llua, knows what's beneficial and what's best for both esahara and cArn. He's not good enough, so he should go home to europe? Maybe if he got the chance to join a solid training house he would be able to gain a code A spot, how would you know? Maybe he will get a chance to join one of the korean teams? Maybe he's stuck teamless in korea for another year?
I don't know and neither do you. Getting really tired of know-it-alls that apparently know exactly what other people should and shouldn't do.
there's a lot of "maybe" in what you say there.
professional organisations can only continue to operate on the basis of a "maybe" for so long. maybe cArn will get into GSL and prove everyone wrong. i hope he does. but after a year of no results - for whatever reason - surely you can understand why esahara decided to cut the cord. they're not a charity, after all.
Maybe it's beneficial for esahara to kick cArn. But what irks me is that people like you can just breeze in and say "It's best if you do X". Do you know cArn, do you know all the circumstances or are you just sprouting your opinion as some kind of fact? Maybe you should use the word "maybe" some in your posts as it seems like you're just guessing.
i'm not pretending my opinion is fact. it's just that - my opinion, which, like everyone else, i have a right to air on this forum. that's what forums are - a place for people to post their opinion. if moderators deleted everything that wasn't deemed factual the website would be a graveyard.
that said, i've based my "opinion" on the events that i've described, which largely revolves around the fact that cArn hasn't had any results for a year. why that is the case is still speculative at this stage - carn has his side of events, esahara has announced theirs, although i wouldn't be surprised if internally they held a different view altogether.
but even carn came out and said he wished esahara had just left their reasoning at "no results". if carn's prepared to accept that, what's your problem in me using it for the basis of my posts? it's an accepted fact; there's no need to burn me down in flames for it.
On January 12 2012 20:47 Detrimentally wrote: this is disguting. eSahara has lost my support and I hope they fail (or waste all of their money on more fake players).
Like they wasted money on cArn right? They paid him to be there, they even wasted money on his cost of living there since thats what teams do. He paid them back in no way, not participating in team events, and having poor results in no gain for the team and thats what teams do. When a player isnt participating, not having expected results, and not showing up to tournaments will result in anyone being canned. If MVP started pulling that there isnt a doubt in my mind that IM would can him and not even think twice. So I think you need to calm down an look at this situation for what it is. A player not participating, having results, or benefiting the team in any way got fired which is what would happen to anyone out there.
This is exactly why most teams don't release explicit information on recruitment/removal of players. Lots of people would just jump on a bandwagon and start complaining.
IMO there's absolutely no problem with a team removing a player posting lackluster results. Think of mouzSyck(?) a while back. He was recruited but was unable to have the ' breakout ' performance, and thus he was simply kicked out. If you're good enough, you get your chances. Some seem to take it for granted it seems. Just think of yourself being the director of a company, and one of your employees cannot contribute to the organization in any way, shape or form while still being able to receive salary. Would you want to keep him ?
People feel bad for cArn cuz of the sacrifices he made, but we all need to remember that it was his decision to be there in the first place. They were the risks he was willing to make, and eSahara has to do what's best for them as a team.
the "code A" seems like the fuse, not the bomb itself. imo the problem here was that he doesnt do team stuff with the team.
(no offense intended here) each foreign team has "no results" players, but they dont get kicked out, because they do things for the team i.e. clanwars, practicing, etc.
On January 13 2012 03:04 Xeris wrote: It's funny how people complain when teams release cookie cutter explanations, "we were going in different directions so we decided to part ways,"
and now when a team actually posts the reasons they removed someone from their team everyone bitches?
eSahara didn't handle it quite well, and even if it isn't true, their belief is what matters. They believed that he didn't put in enough effort. If you're not putting effort and not getting results == kicked from the team. That's what they said. They were actually 100% transparent, more so than almost every other team. And yet, when people now hear the real reason they complain.
If eShara had said, "well, cArn and us decided to go a different direction," people would still be complaining and asking for the real reason.
I understand why teams make the "going in a different direction" statement when these things happen. But, I'd appreciate if teams would use a bit more... variety? It's hard for me to read a team talk about wishing a player all the best in the future and how they both parted ways amicably and at the same time use the exact same statement every time. It makes the teams look lazy and like they don't give a shit to me. I'm morbidly waiting for one of the teams to fuck up and post a statement that ends up referencing a different player because they flat out copy/pasted the same statement and forgot to change one of the names... sigh.
I fully understand that may sound unreasonable but the same tired PR statement gets boring
why cant eSahara just say "sorry we have to let him go and wish him luck blablablabl" instead of shitting on him.
if you cant even let a player go with dignity there is only one conclusion to be made which is the team management is not up to the job. and what was the thing about having no place to train for 5-6 months? wtf this is.. wtf is this WTF am i even reading here?!
this is just a reminder of how tiny and unprofessional the business side of starcraft2 is. i´d love to see some salaries and contracts made public so team managements act according to their "financial ego".
The eSahara announcement isn't as bad as the OP makes it seems. The French version says that they wish him the best of luck in pursuing the GSL. If you can't read french, just use Google Translate. You will see the announcement is quite reasonable.
lol at all the haters. It's a business. If the player doesn't win anything whatsoever, doesn't even bother to try and qualify and has no fanbase, why would he deserve to be supported? Cos he's a nice guy and wrote some blogs? Get real :/
Evening folks! Earlier today I was able to talk to both Retox and cArn with regards to this split. Apparently, the reason he was removed was a lack of results - but eSahara are sticking to their guns on the lack of dedication.
Also, during this talk it was revealed to me that Naaama will not be making the trip to Korea thanks to an INCREDIBLE mistake on eSahara's part. I'll link you in the spoiler below.
On January 13 2012 05:28 Suichoy wrote: The eSahara announcement isn't as bad as the OP makes it seems. The French version says that they wish him the best of luck in pursuing the GSL. If you can't read french, just use Google Translate. You will see the announcement is quite reasonable.
i can read french.
but in the world of money people talk differently. and saying "lack of dedication" in a public post by someones "ex boss" is shitting all over your face and rubbing it in to it. it does not matter if you end it with "and wish you good luck" because you still shit in someones face. i know i get a warning for this.. but i do make i point dont i?
On January 13 2012 05:28 Suichoy wrote: The eSahara announcement isn't as bad as the OP makes it seems. The French version says that they wish him the best of luck in pursuing the GSL. If you can't read french, just use Google Translate. You will see the announcement is quite reasonable.
i can read french.
but in the world of money people talk differently. and saying "lack of dedication" in a public post by your "ex boss" is shitting all over your face and rubbing it in to it. it does not matter if you end it with "and wish you good luck" because you still shit in someones face. i know i get a warning for this.. but i do make i point dont i?
Good point, I just think the eSahara tone was less offensive than in the OP.
On January 13 2012 05:28 Suichoy wrote: The eSahara announcement isn't as bad as the OP makes it seems. The French version says that they wish him the best of luck in pursuing the GSL. If you can't read french, just use Google Translate. You will see the announcement is quite reasonable.
i can read french.
but in the world of money people talk differently. and saying "lack of dedication" in a public post by someones "ex boss" is shitting all over your face and rubbing it in to it. it does not matter if you end it with "and wish you good luck" because you still shit in someones face. i know i get a warning for this.. but i do make i point dont i?
Don't martyr, for your own good. Now you'll get warned whether or not the post warranted it.
I have no idea why eSahara said he was removed due to the FXO players, when we were in the GOM house we were streaming with webcams and you can see cArn in the back of the room while our players were there.
On January 13 2012 06:03 XRaDiiX wrote: Can somebody explain what happened at the Gom House. Did they suddenly have to change all the players staying there?
Are Foreigner only allowed to stay there for so long?
They threw him out so FXO team could stay (this was last spring). I think GOM only wants players staying there if they are profitable for them (GOMTV), if they can manage to qualify for GSL and they bring viewers. But I'm not really sure, this is just my speculation.
Sorry but being a pro means you have to perform at some point. I give him credit for going after his dream but he obviously lacks the talent to accomplish it. Just as not everyone can be a physicist, not everyone can be a pro starcraft player.
On January 13 2012 06:44 Duravi wrote: Sorry but being a pro means you have to perform at some point. I give him credit for going after his dream but he obviously lacks the talent to accomplish it. Just as not everyone can be a physicist, not everyone can be a pro starcraft player.
How exactly can you conclude that he obviously lacks the talent? How often have you even seen him play?
On January 13 2012 06:44 Duravi wrote: Sorry but being a pro means you have to perform at some point. I give him credit for going after his dream but he obviously lacks the talent to accomplish it. Just as not everyone can be a physicist, not everyone can be a pro starcraft player.
How exactly can you conclude that he obviously lacks the talent? How often have you even seen him play?
He has no results. At what point does that start to matter? You can't just keep saying some player has great potential but has yet to perform up to it even once for year after year.
Nice to see the thread shift more towards logical and understanding of why esahara had to let carn go. I don't see any team executive keeping a player like carn as long as they did.
I also find it hilarious that carn tries to justify why he didn't practice for 5-6 months.
On January 12 2012 20:54 Ruscour wrote: edit: i was quite mean.
best of luck to cArn, keep at it...as long as he's still practicing hard i do not understand this decision.
Why should he keep at it? He has practiced over a year full time and still isnt that good. He seriously should stop trying to play this game professionally, he will never be top player.
Not with that attitude. Would you say the same about Jinro?
I would. Other then the early GSL and MLG Dallas what has Jinro done? Nothing, he's just your average foreigner who lives in Korea.
On January 13 2012 07:38 Zombo Joe wrote: What about Machine and Tyler?
What about them? Both are big time community figures (Tyler <3)
Both are -marketable -popular with the fans -Actually have results -great teammates -great personalities -Knowledgeable when it comes to the game. -etc!
I agree, what's wrong with not going to the qualifiers? How is that a lack of motivation? If anything you could see it as discipline. If you haven't reached your goal and haven't gotten good enough, you can tell yourself beforehand that you will not go to the qualifiers as a punishment, hence making yourself want to work harder next time.
It is wrong for eSahara to judge like this. It's their team of course, but I don't agree with the decision.
On January 12 2012 20:54 Ruscour wrote: edit: i was quite mean.
best of luck to cArn, keep at it...as long as he's still practicing hard i do not understand this decision.
Why should he keep at it? He has practiced over a year full time and still isnt that good. He seriously should stop trying to play this game professionally, he will never be top player.
Not with that attitude. Would you say the same about Jinro?
I would. Other then the early GSL and MLG Dallas what has Jinro done? Nothing, he's just your average foreigner who lives in Korea.
Point is that a player who may not be doing well currently does not necessarily not have the potential to make a breakthrough or improve, such as Jinro has done. Thus, carn still has a chance to get good.
On January 13 2012 07:38 Zombo Joe wrote: What about Machine and Tyler?
What about them? Both are big time community figures (Tyler <3)
Both are -marketable -popular with the fans -Actually have results -great teammates -great personalities -Knowledgeable when it comes to the game. -etc!
And although both players have minimal success, even a ton of poor results can be beneficial for sponsors b/c at the end of the day, players are supposed to market their sponsors. When I look at Machine and Tyler's TLPD pages, the volume of games stands out to me as that's a ton of <insert sponsor plug> going out. When you look at cArn's page, he's participated in like 5 total events. If he's not winning or much less attending anything, why is it so unreasonable for a team to drop him?
On January 13 2012 07:38 Zombo Joe wrote: What about Machine and Tyler?
What about them? Both are big time community figures (Tyler <3)
Both are -marketable -popular with the fans -Actually have results -great teammates -great personalities -Knowledgeable when it comes to the game. -etc!
And although both players have minimal success, even a ton of poor results can be beneficial for sponsors b/c at the end of the day, players are supposed to market their sponsors. When I look at Machine and Tyler's TLPD pages, the volume of games stands out to me as that's a ton of <insert sponsor plug> going out. When you look at cArn's page, he's participated in like 5 total events. If he's not winning or attending anything, why is it so unreasonable for a team to drop him?
Its not unreasonable at all, I'm surprised carn lasted this long given his lack of success and his lack of practice. I would be shocked any mid-level and higher team would even consider him.
I'm not really a carn or esahara fan but I've NEVER understood the hype around carn. While esahara just seems like a team thats trying to be relevant - dropping carn , picking up check, maka and naama is a good start.
On January 13 2012 07:38 Zombo Joe wrote: What about Machine and Tyler?
What about them? Both are big time community figures (Tyler <3)
Both are -marketable -popular with the fans -Actually have results -great teammates -great personalities -Knowledgeable when it comes to the game. -etc!
And although both players have minimal success, even a ton of poor results can be beneficial for sponsors b/c at the end of the day, players are supposed to market their sponsors. When I look at Machine and Tyler's TLPD pages, the volume of games stands out to me as that's a ton of <insert sponsor plug> going out. When you look at cArn's page, he's participated in like 5 total events. If he's not winning or attending anything, why is it so unreasonable for a team to drop him?
Its not unreasonable at all, I'm surprised carn lasted this long given his lack of success and his lack of practice. I would be shocked any mid-level and higher team would even consider him.
I'm not really a carn or esahara fan but I've NEVER understood the hype around carn. While esahara just seems like a team thats trying to be relevant.
On January 12 2012 20:54 Ruscour wrote: edit: i was quite mean.
best of luck to cArn, keep at it...as long as he's still practicing hard i do not understand this decision.
Why should he keep at it? He has practiced over a year full time and still isnt that good. He seriously should stop trying to play this game professionally, he will never be top player.
Not with that attitude. Would you say the same about Jinro?
I would. Other then the early GSL and MLG Dallas what has Jinro done? Nothing, he's just your average foreigner who lives in Korea.
Point is that a player who may not be doing well currently does not necessarily not have the potential to make a breakthrough or improve, such as Jinro has done. Thus, carn still has a chance to get good.
People who are currently in diamond league and started playing sc2 as their first PC game and first RTS game also have a potential to be pro if they develop the work ethic. That doesn't mean they'll be pro soon, but let's not discredit possibilities. Sure cArn might be able to achieve something at some point, but when you hire a player as a professional with salary etc, you expect things out of him. I doubt they were all fine and dandy with cArn, until all of a sudden he didn't sign up for GSL qualies and OMG REALLY? KICKED GTFO! It was probably a last straw sort of deal. ofc I know nothing of the situation at all, so take my words with a grain of salt as I'm completely uninformed, but strategical moves are usually made strategically. Rather than using all their money on someone who never does anything, how about use it to recruit someone who has and might continue to do stuff?
Besides, I don't understand this whole thing about "after getting kicked out of GOM House I couldn't practice for 5-6 months". Did he not have a computer? Does every pro player hate his guts for some reason? Unless 1 or both of those are true, he might have a harder time training, but seriously? that's the most pathetic excuse I've ever seen. There are a bunch of pros who don't live in a team house, who train daily on ladder, through game analysis, and through pro gamer friends.
I used to be quite involved in management, and although there are probably things that I don't know about the situation, these things in front of me in this thread only, I discredit cArn more than eSahara. Especially after recruiting Maka, they have better opportunities to look out for.
On January 13 2012 07:38 Zombo Joe wrote: What about Machine and Tyler?
What about them? Both are big time community figures (Tyler <3)
Both are -marketable -popular with the fans -Actually have results -great teammates -great personalities -Knowledgeable when it comes to the game. -etc!
And although both players have minimal success, even a ton of poor results can be beneficial for sponsors b/c at the end of the day, players are supposed to market their sponsors. When I look at Machine and Tyler's TLPD pages, the volume of games stands out to me as that's a ton of <insert sponsor plug> going out. When you look at cArn's page, he's participated in like 5 total events. If he's not winning or attending anything, why is it so unreasonable for a team to drop him?
Its not unreasonable at all, I'm surprised carn lasted this long given his lack of success and his lack of practice. I would be shocked any mid-level and higher team would even consider him.
I'm not really a carn or esahara fan but I've NEVER understood the hype around carn. While esahara just seems like a team thats trying to be relevant.
On January 13 2012 06:44 Duravi wrote: Sorry but being a pro means you have to perform at some point. I give him credit for going after his dream but he obviously lacks the talent to accomplish it. Just as not everyone can be a physicist, not everyone can be a pro starcraft player.
How exactly can you conclude that he obviously lacks the talent? How often have you even seen him play?
He has no results. At what point does that start to matter? You can't just keep saying some player has great potential but has yet to perform up to it even once for year after year.
I'm not saying anything about his potential, you're the one saying he has zero talent without knowing anything about him as a player. Why would you talk about anyone's talent at anything without ever seeing them in action? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
As for at what point do results start to matter - I would say nothing less than a year in an ideal training environment. He didn't have an year, he didn't have ideal environment, and his team obviously did not do a lot to get the most out of him, which is something that all serious teams will work hard at. Which begs the question - why even sign him in the first place?
dang, original poster should edit the statement. some grammar and spelling errors and the tone, at least translated into english, seems a bit aggressive.
On January 13 2012 06:44 Duravi wrote: Sorry but being a pro means you have to perform at some point. I give him credit for going after his dream but he obviously lacks the talent to accomplish it. Just as not everyone can be a physicist, not everyone can be a pro starcraft player.
How exactly can you conclude that he obviously lacks the talent? How often have you even seen him play?
He has no results. At what point does that start to matter? You can't just keep saying some player has great potential but has yet to perform up to it even once for year after year.
I'm not saying anything about his potential, you're the one saying he has zero talent without knowing anything about him as a player. Why would you talk about anyone's talent at anything without ever seeing them in action? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
As for at what point do results start to matter - I would say nothing less than a year in an ideal training environment. He didn't have an year, he didn't have ideal environment, and his team obviously did not do a lot to get the most out of him, which is something that all serious teams will work hard at. Which begs the question - why even sign him in the first place?
On January 13 2012 08:10 Angelbelow wrote: Lmao. And theres more stuff like this on the first few pages.
Saying that somebody is passionate is hardly "hype". Considering what he did and how much he put in to play Starcraft in Korea, I'm pretty sure he qualifies for being one of the most passionate players.
Passion and hard work are closely related. You can't be passionate and lazy or hard working but apathetic. If carn was truly passionate than he would be hard working as well. The combination of hard work and passion will undoubtedly lead to success and only in the rarest case is this false. So either carn is a passionate and hard working individual who just happens to unlucky, or hes not really passionate or hard working at all. As you probably guessed based on our past conversations, I'm a realist. I always assume that having passion and great work ethic will lead to success. Until proven otherwise, my opinion is that people who fail to achieve results aren't truly passionate and hard working.
Besides, I don't understand this whole thing about "after getting kicked out of GOM House I couldn't practice for 5-6 months". Did he not have a computer? Does every pro player hate his guts for some reason? Unless 1 or both of those are true, he might have a harder time training, but seriously? that's the most pathetic excuse I've ever seen. There are a bunch of pros who don't live in a team house, who train daily on ladder, through game analysis, and through pro gamer friends.
I don't really understand that either, and it seems like a weird thing to lie about or use as an excuse because it just doesn't seem to make sense.
I feel kinda bad for cArn though; I remember seeing him waaaay back during the first few GSL opens. It was amazing to me that he would go there without having any real support the way most of the other foreigners had either Liquid or EG behind them. I don't think I've ever actually seen him play though... and if he WAS in any tournament I watched, he must not have gotten far. It's a shame, because he's obviously pretty dedicated.
Is there no chance of cArn getting picked up by a Korean team? Even Torch got on a team :/
On January 13 2012 06:44 Duravi wrote: Sorry but being a pro means you have to perform at some point. I give him credit for going after his dream but he obviously lacks the talent to accomplish it. Just as not everyone can be a physicist, not everyone can be a pro starcraft player.
How exactly can you conclude that he obviously lacks the talent? How often have you even seen him play?
He has no results. At what point does that start to matter? You can't just keep saying some player has great potential but has yet to perform up to it even once for year after year.
I'm not saying anything about his potential, you're the one saying he has zero talent without knowing anything about him as a player. Why would you talk about anyone's talent at anything without ever seeing them in action? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
As for at what point do results start to matter - I would say nothing less than a year in an ideal training environment. He didn't have an year, he didn't have ideal environment, and his team obviously did not do a lot to get the most out of him, which is something that all serious teams will work hard at. Which begs the question - why even sign him in the first place?
On January 13 2012 08:10 Angelbelow wrote: Lmao. And theres more stuff like this on the first few pages.
Saying that somebody is passionate is hardly "hype". Considering what he did and how much he put in to play Starcraft in Korea, I'm pretty sure he qualifies for being one of the most passionate players.
Passion and hard work are closely related. You can't be passionate and lazy or hard working but apathetic. If carn was truly passionate than he would be hard working as well.
I don't think this is necessarily true at all.
But more importantly, there is no real evidence pointing out that cArn is in fact not a hard-working player - there are only unsubstantiated claims made by an eSahara representative. However, as far as I am aware cArn was regarded as a dedicated player in general from way before he joined eSahara. The doubts about his commitment appear only during his time at eSahara - which IMO is not enough to brand him "lazy".
On January 13 2012 08:40 Angelbelow wrote: The combination of hard work and passion will undoubtedly lead to success and only in the rarest case is this false.
This is an extremely exaggerated claim, both in Starcraft and life - not something I would expect from a self-proclaimed realist. You don't need to go further than a TLPD page for a Brood War team of choice, look at all the names you've never heard of, and look at how long they've been on the teams.
Consider that you don't get to stay on a BW team for very long at all if you're not sticking to an extreme practice schedule. Which in turn is never a job you would choose to do for a relatively small wage unless you were passionate for the game. I believe this proves your follow-up claim wrong as well.
On January 13 2012 06:44 Duravi wrote: Sorry but being a pro means you have to perform at some point. I give him credit for going after his dream but he obviously lacks the talent to accomplish it. Just as not everyone can be a physicist, not everyone can be a pro starcraft player.
How exactly can you conclude that he obviously lacks the talent? How often have you even seen him play?
He has no results. At what point does that start to matter? You can't just keep saying some player has great potential but has yet to perform up to it even once for year after year.
I'm not saying anything about his potential, you're the one saying he has zero talent without knowing anything about him as a player. Why would you talk about anyone's talent at anything without ever seeing them in action? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
As for at what point do results start to matter - I would say nothing less than a year in an ideal training environment. He didn't have an year, he didn't have ideal environment, and his team obviously did not do a lot to get the most out of him, which is something that all serious teams will work hard at. Which begs the question - why even sign him in the first place?
On January 13 2012 08:10 Angelbelow wrote: Lmao. And theres more stuff like this on the first few pages.
Saying that somebody is passionate is hardly "hype". Considering what he did and how much he put in to play Starcraft in Korea, I'm pretty sure he qualifies for being one of the most passionate players.
Passion and hard work are closely related. You can't be passionate and lazy or hard working but apathetic. If carn was truly passionate than he would be hard working as well.
I don't think this is necessarily true at all.
But more importantly, there is no real evidence pointing out that cArn is in fact not a hard-working player - there are only unsubstantiated claims made by an eSahara representative. However, as far as I am aware cArn was regarded as a dedicated player in general from way before he joined eSahara. The doubts about his commitment appear only during his time at eSahara - which IMO is not enough to brand him "lazy".
On January 13 2012 08:40 Angelbelow wrote: The combination of hard work and passion will undoubtedly lead to success and only in the rarest case is this false.
This is an extremely exaggerated claim, both in Starcraft and life - not something I would expect from a self-proclaimed realist. You don't need to go further than a TLPD page for a Brood War team of choice, look at all the names you've never heard of, and look at how long they've been on the teams.
Consider that you don't get to stay on a BW team for very long at all if you're not sticking to an extreme practice schedule. Which in turn is never a job you would choose to do for a relatively small wage unless you were passionate for the game. I believe this proves your follow-up claim wrong as well.
You can argue if you want, but the keys to success has always been hard work and passion and all values encompassing those two qualities. Its not exaggerated, its just the truth. In sc2 and in life, you'll find the most successful people the hardest working and the most passionate.
I don't follow Broodwar so switch to sc2 or else I won't be able to keep up =p.
But sc2, there's a reason why the same players are always contenders.
On January 13 2012 07:19 Angelbelow wrote: Nice to see the thread shift more towards logical and understanding of why esahara had to let carn go. I don't see any team executive keeping a player like carn as long as they did.
I also find it hilarious that carn tries to justify why he didn't practice for 5-6 months.
I agree. So what exactly happened at the Gom House why is Esahara saying he was banned when he was clearly not and whats the shake-down happening at the Gom House. do they just not let Foreigners stay if they aren't buckling down and practicing?
seems to me that Carn was slacking in practice that's why his team let him go...
On January 12 2012 20:54 Ruscour wrote: edit: i was quite mean.
best of luck to cArn, keep at it...as long as he's still practicing hard i do not understand this decision.
Why should he keep at it? He has practiced over a year full time and still isnt that good. He seriously should stop trying to play this game professionally, he will never be top player.
Not with that attitude. Would you say the same about Jinro?
I would. Other then the early GSL and MLG Dallas what has Jinro done? Nothing, he's just your average foreigner who lives in Korea.
Point is that a player who may not be doing well currently does not necessarily not have the potential to make a breakthrough or improve, such as Jinro has done. Thus, carn still has a chance to get good.
People who are currently in diamond league and started playing sc2 as their first PC game and first RTS game also have a potential to be pro if they develop the work ethic. That doesn't mean they'll be pro soon, but let's not discredit possibilities. Sure cArn might be able to achieve something at some point, but when you hire a player as a professional with salary etc, you expect things out of him. I doubt they were all fine and dandy with cArn, until all of a sudden he didn't sign up for GSL qualies and OMG REALLY? KICKED GTFO! It was probably a last straw sort of deal. ofc I know nothing of the situation at all, so take my words with a grain of salt as I'm completely uninformed, but strategical moves are usually made strategically. Rather than using all their money on someone who never does anything, how about use it to recruit someone who has and might continue to do stuff?
Besides, I don't understand this whole thing about "after getting kicked out of GOM House I couldn't practice for 5-6 months". Did he not have a computer? Does every pro player hate his guts for some reason? Unless 1 or both of those are true, he might have a harder time training, but seriously? that's the most pathetic excuse I've ever seen. There are a bunch of pros who don't live in a team house, who train daily on ladder, through game analysis, and through pro gamer friends.
I used to be quite involved in management, and although there are probably things that I don't know about the situation, these things in front of me in this thread only, I discredit cArn more than eSahara. Especially after recruiting Maka, they have better opportunities to look out for.
As far as I understand when he got kicked out he basically didn't have any place to stay in Korea so he took in at some motel that didn't have internet. No internet = no practice
On January 12 2012 20:54 Ruscour wrote: edit: i was quite mean.
best of luck to cArn, keep at it...as long as he's still practicing hard i do not understand this decision.
Why should he keep at it? He has practiced over a year full time and still isnt that good. He seriously should stop trying to play this game professionally, he will never be top player.
Not with that attitude. Would you say the same about Jinro?
I would. Other then the early GSL and MLG Dallas what has Jinro done? Nothing, he's just your average foreigner who lives in Korea.
Point is that a player who may not be doing well currently does not necessarily not have the potential to make a breakthrough or improve, such as Jinro has done. Thus, carn still has a chance to get good.
People who are currently in diamond league and started playing sc2 as their first PC game and first RTS game also have a potential to be pro if they develop the work ethic. That doesn't mean they'll be pro soon, but let's not discredit possibilities. Sure cArn might be able to achieve something at some point, but when you hire a player as a professional with salary etc, you expect things out of him. I doubt they were all fine and dandy with cArn, until all of a sudden he didn't sign up for GSL qualies and OMG REALLY? KICKED GTFO! It was probably a last straw sort of deal. ofc I know nothing of the situation at all, so take my words with a grain of salt as I'm completely uninformed, but strategical moves are usually made strategically. Rather than using all their money on someone who never does anything, how about use it to recruit someone who has and might continue to do stuff?
Besides, I don't understand this whole thing about "after getting kicked out of GOM House I couldn't practice for 5-6 months". Did he not have a computer? Does every pro player hate his guts for some reason? Unless 1 or both of those are true, he might have a harder time training, but seriously? that's the most pathetic excuse I've ever seen. There are a bunch of pros who don't live in a team house, who train daily on ladder, through game analysis, and through pro gamer friends.
I used to be quite involved in management, and although there are probably things that I don't know about the situation, these things in front of me in this thread only, I discredit cArn more than eSahara. Especially after recruiting Maka, they have better opportunities to look out for.
As far as I understand when he got kicked out he basically didn't have any place to stay in Korea so he took in at some motel that didn't have internet. No internet = no practice
PC bang = practice...
Honnestly i used to be a big fan of cArn, but did you read all statement, cArn was in a pro house for 3 month and did not practiced... Will you call this motivation ? oO
When I'm reading "didn't practice for 5 months" or whatever, does that actually mean he barely touched SC2 during that period? I find that hard to believe.
LOL? In the past people would complain about teams giving generic/vague reasons why a player is let go and demanding the full details. Yet now eSahara gives the details and NOW we complain it`s unprofessional? I sure hope these aren`t the same people.
Maybe now people will realize why most teams are more tight lipped about the full details because it can really ruin the player`s image. The community isn`t entitled to 100% transparency to business decisions of organizations.
On January 13 2012 11:16 mango_destroyer wrote: LOL? In the past people would complain about teams giving generic/vague reasons why a player is let go and demanding the full details. Yet now eSahara gives the details and NOW we complain it`s unprofessional? I sure hope these aren`t the same people.
Maybe now people will realize why most teams are more tight lipped about the full details because it can really ruin the player`s image. The community isn`t entitled to 100% transparency to business decisions of organizations.
I just can't help but laugh. Not at what you said, because I 100% agree, but rather because it seems like you reworded what Xeris just wrote.
I guess I expect everyone to read at least a few of the recent comments in a thread before they post, but meh.
I feel bad for him but can't say I'm impressed by this move.
In general, I'm not sure why some foreigners still think that just going to Korea is going to help them in any way. You are not GM in EU/US, can't speak a single korean word let alone discuss with other korean pros, you hang out with foreigners all the time, play ladder all day and expect to improve?
It doesn't make sense unless it's the air or water in Korea that makes their players so good and I'm pretty sure that's not the case. GL anyways, cArn.
On January 13 2012 03:04 Xeris wrote: It's funny how people complain when teams release cookie cutter explanations, "we were going in different directions so we decided to part ways,"
and now when a team actually posts the reasons they removed someone from their team everyone bitches?
eSahara didn't handle it quite well, and even if it isn't true, their belief is what matters. They believed that he didn't put in enough effort. If you're not putting effort and not getting results == kicked from the team. That's what they said. They were actually 100% transparent, more so than almost every other team. And yet, when people now hear the real reason they complain.
If eShara had said, "well, cArn and us decided to go a different direction," people would still be complaining and asking for the real reason.
hit the nail on the coffin,
ps love you
I'm sorry, weren't you also complaining?
On January 13 2012 00:26 desRow wrote: It's not about letting him go that bothers me, it's the way they do it. They should have been more neutral and a bit more professional, sucky situation T_T
On January 13 2012 03:04 Xeris wrote: It's funny how people complain when teams release cookie cutter explanations, "we were going in different directions so we decided to part ways,"
and now when a team actually posts the reasons they removed someone from their team everyone bitches?
eSahara didn't handle it quite well, and even if it isn't true, their belief is what matters. They believed that he didn't put in enough effort. If you're not putting effort and not getting results == kicked from the team. That's what they said. They were
I am not one of those that get bothered by cookie cutter explanations, but you have to be naive to not think that eSahara release this press statement to make them look like the good guys, they literally threw a guy under the bus without offering his side of the story when they just needed to make a neutral statement. This guy sacrifice a ton on his own accord to actually live in Korea on his own, yet they attacked his conviction and motivation. It's really shocking that someone like you who have worked in this scene for so long and know how tough it is to be so insensitive. There are plenty of dramas in the past when managers and players have complete break downs in relationships or massive fights between teammmates, what kind of team PR decides to disclose that to public when they fire the player? The truth may leak out in forums as rumors, but rumors are irrelevant after a short while especially if nobody involved chooses to substantiate them.
It starts to look bad when both sides are forced to point fingers at each other because of one side choosing to attack first publicly. There are many progamers that have yet to succeed in anything since SC2 came out, many of which we never hear about when their team releases them. Their teams didn't go out of their way to cover their asses and shift the blame on the player they fired either. You do not do that in any industry unless you want to bad rep.
eSahara had enough bad PR already before this happened, personally I didn't really care about the previous blunders since it's not their fault(other than hiring that one guy to post official news with terrible grammar), but this time they are clearly at fault for pushing someone under the bus.
Okay well, thank you to eSahara for posting the reasons they removed him and being transparent.
I don't believe he is completely demotivated but from what they said he hasn't played at all in 3 months so I suppose I understand the decision from a business standpoint.
I really like Carn and I hope he does well, very well in fact.
On January 13 2012 11:16 mango_destroyer wrote: LOL? In the past people would complain about teams giving generic/vague reasons why a player is let go and demanding the full details. Yet now eSahara gives the details and NOW we complain it`s unprofessional? I sure hope these aren`t the same people.
Maybe now people will realize why most teams are more tight lipped about the full details because it can really ruin the player`s image. The community isn`t entitled to 100% transparency to business decisions of organizations.
The objection in the thread tends to be that eSahara might be shoveling manure in our faces. It's not hypocritical because people aren't complaining about vague reasons and about detailed reasons. They're complaining about vague reasons in most cases and possibly bullshit reasons in cArn's case. Better to just say he didn't post the results they wanted.
On January 13 2012 11:16 mango_destroyer wrote: LOL? In the past people would complain about teams giving generic/vague reasons why a player is let go and demanding the full details. Yet now eSahara gives the details and NOW we complain it`s unprofessional? I sure hope these aren`t the same people.
Maybe now people will realize why most teams are more tight lipped about the full details because it can really ruin the player`s image. The community isn`t entitled to 100% transparency to business decisions of organizations.
The objection in the thread tends to be that eSahara might be shoveling manure in our faces. It's not hypocritical because people aren't complaining about vague reasons and about detailed reasons. They're complaining about vague reasons in most cases and possibly bullshit reasons in cArn's case. Better to just say he didn't post the results they wanted.
If nothing else they could have changed their tone. I have no issue with them saying that carn isn't practicing enough for them but the way they worded it was inappropriate. List your reasons, fine. I'd be happier if more teams and players did that. But try to avoid coming off as a whiny little bitch while doing it.
When cArn says he couldn't practise for a few months, he doesn't mean "Well, for these months I didn't play StarCraft and I was walking around Seoul going to Cat Cafés and singing Christmas Carols". He means that he wasn't able to train in ideal conditions. Being with cArn through a lot of this transition period, I know it was difficult for him to train. Training in PC방 is not the same thing as being in a pro house, and it affected him mentally. I don't know anything about his training in the ProS House, but this guy did not back down when he was in the GOM House. And he put in the time.
On January 13 2012 03:04 Xeris wrote: It's funny how people complain when teams release cookie cutter explanations, "we were going in different directions so we decided to part ways,"
and now when a team actually posts the reasons they removed someone from their team everyone bitches?
eSahara didn't handle it quite well, and even if it isn't true, their belief is what matters. They believed that he didn't put in enough effort. If you're not putting effort and not getting results == kicked from the team. That's what they said. They were actually 100% transparent, more so than almost every other team. And yet, when people now hear the real reason they complain.
If eShara had said, "well, cArn and us decided to go a different direction," people would still be complaining and asking for the real reason.
Oh look at that, in a community with thousands of people there are different opinions, what a shocking surprise!
On January 13 2012 14:33 Wolf wrote: When cArn says he couldn't practise for a few months, he doesn't mean "Well, for these months I didn't play StarCraft and I was walking around Seoul going to Cat Cafés and singing Christmas Carols". He means that he wasn't able to train in ideal conditions. Being with cArn through a lot of this transition period, I know it was difficult for him to train. Training in PC방 is not the same thing as being in a pro house, and it affected him mentally. I don't know anything about his training in the ProS House, but this guy did not back down when he was in the GOM House. And he put in the time.
exactly. carn says he did not practice for 5-6 months and people freak out. OBVIOUSLY it doesn't mean he just held his balls and walked Korea. It MEANS that he was "practicing" sc2 just as if he were at home in France. Which is not ideal if you went all the way to korea to play in the gsl.
On January 13 2012 14:33 Wolf wrote: When cArn says he couldn't practise for a few months, he doesn't mean "Well, for these months I didn't play StarCraft and I was walking around Seoul going to Cat Cafés and singing Christmas Carols". He means that he wasn't able to train in ideal conditions. Being with cArn through a lot of this transition period, I know it was difficult for him to train. Training in PC방 is not the same thing as being in a pro house, and it affected him mentally. I don't know anything about his training in the ProS House, but this guy did not back down when he was in the GOM House. And he put in the time.
Was gonna post this but Wolf said it better. I met cArn in Seoul before, and I've seen him practice in some of the most non ideal conditions ever. Bash him for not having results sure, but anyone who talks about his dedication is retarded.
And at least when I say non-ideal, I don't mean he didn't have a nice chair, it means shitty internet (yes, it happens even in Korea), no structured area, possibly moving around, horrible sleeping areas, etc
I appreciate both eSahara and cArn for speaking their mind. We know more about the situation now than we would have otherwise, when the usual happens with teams coming out with blanket statements and ignoring all questions and relevant comments.
carn fighting! man hes been in korea for so long, thats dedication.i think i remember artosis interviewing him in like late 2010, (around when incontrol went to korea for a bit). damn! success will find him soon enough, and when it does ill be pretty damn happy for him
would be cool if millenium picked him up or something, home team country support!!
On January 13 2012 14:33 Wolf wrote: When cArn says he couldn't practise for a few months, he doesn't mean "Well, for these months I didn't play StarCraft and I was walking around Seoul going to Cat Cafés and singing Christmas Carols". He means that he wasn't able to train in ideal conditions. Being with cArn through a lot of this transition period, I know it was difficult for him to train. Training in PC방 is not the same thing as being in a pro house, and it affected him mentally. I don't know anything about his training in the ProS House, but this guy did not back down when he was in the GOM House. And he put in the time.
How stupid is that? Why would cArn deserve to be in pro house? He is propably average grandmaster/top master level in eu/na. And you know what, 99.99% of foreigner progamers arent in pro house, still they train and dont cry "I CANNOT TRAIN IN IDEAL CONDITIONS" trollol.
On January 13 2012 14:33 Wolf wrote: When cArn says he couldn't practise for a few months, he doesn't mean "Well, for these months I didn't play StarCraft and I was walking around Seoul going to Cat Cafés and singing Christmas Carols". He means that he wasn't able to train in ideal conditions. Being with cArn through a lot of this transition period, I know it was difficult for him to train. Training in PC방 is not the same thing as being in a pro house, and it affected him mentally. I don't know anything about his training in the ProS House, but this guy did not back down when he was in the GOM House. And he put in the time.
How stupid is that? Why would cArn deserve to be in pro house? He is propably average grandmaster/top master level in eu/na. And you know what, 99.99% of foreigner progamers arent in pro house, still they train and dont cry "I CANNOT TRAIN IN IDEAL CONDITIONS" trollol.
Where the hell did he say that cArn "deserved" to be in a pro house? Are you just making shit up to argue with a well known community member? Trololol indeed.
So basically this guy needs a team that will support him all the way until he finally feels ready to go into GSL? I mean, cmon, he didn't even try to qualify this time. Yea, chances are low for that but will there really be time when someone can be comfortable that he can just go into those code A qualifiers and really qualify?
He's been in korea for a year and hasn't really done anything to promote himself. Ok, he didn't qualify for GSL because that's freakishly hard, but how many daily/weekly tournaments did he even attend?
If you wan't to become a pro nowadays you can't just sit at home and play sc2, you need to make a name out of yourself. That means you need to play in bunch of different tournaments, stream, arrange some showmatch etc.etc. so that you can create some fanbase and become marketable. GSL isn't everything. There are couple players who didn't win any real major tournament but they won over 40!!! daily/weekly/etc tournaments. Now everyone knows them and would like them in their roster. That's how it's done.
because having attitude like "I wan't a team that will give me great conditions to practice so I can just sit and play and then some day try to qualify for GSL" just doesn't cut it. No team can afford that.
On January 13 2012 14:33 Wolf wrote: When cArn says he couldn't practise for a few months, he doesn't mean "Well, for these months I didn't play StarCraft and I was walking around Seoul going to Cat Cafés and singing Christmas Carols". He means that he wasn't able to train in ideal conditions. Being with cArn through a lot of this transition period, I know it was difficult for him to train. Training in PC방 is not the same thing as being in a pro house, and it affected him mentally. I don't know anything about his training in the ProS House, but this guy did not back down when he was in the GOM House. And he put in the time.
How stupid is that? Why would cArn deserve to be in pro house? He is propably average grandmaster/top master level in eu/na. And you know what, 99.99% of foreigner progamers arent in pro house, still they train and dont cry "I CANNOT TRAIN IN IDEAL CONDITIONS" trollol.
Where the hell did he say that cArn "deserved" to be in a pro house? Are you just making shit up to argue with a well known community member? Trololol indeed.
He didnt say that, but if carns mindset is that he can only train in prohouse, then its kinda retarded. My post was towards carn and his "i cannot train without prohouse"
On January 13 2012 18:38 kelyos wrote: not millenium for sure...
excepted eSahara there was no chance to see a great french team would have picked him
gl to him anyway
+1 for Millenium, they didn't picked MoMaN, they let ToD go because he wanted to go for a very long time in Korea, no chance they pick cArn.
For the other french teams...aAa maybe (very small chance imhp), or the belgium team BLAST, Acer has a french manager Frederick "Kaoru" Gau, he might be interested (Even if cArn + Nerchio in the same team would be a bit...weird to me).
However, a big problem remains : He's in Korea and is invisible in tournaments, even online. It doesn't help to get a team.
I think it's the point cArn has to think about if he wants to join a new team.
On January 13 2012 14:33 Wolf wrote: When cArn says he couldn't practise for a few months, he doesn't mean "Well, for these months I didn't play StarCraft and I was walking around Seoul going to Cat Cafés and singing Christmas Carols". He means that he wasn't able to train in ideal conditions. Being with cArn through a lot of this transition period, I know it was difficult for him to train. Training in PC방 is not the same thing as being in a pro house, and it affected him mentally. I don't know anything about his training in the ProS House, but this guy did not back down when he was in the GOM House. And he put in the time.
How stupid is that? Why would cArn deserve to be in pro house? He is propably average grandmaster/top master level in eu/na. And you know what, 99.99% of foreigner progamers arent in pro house, still they train and dont cry "I CANNOT TRAIN IN IDEAL CONDITIONS" trollol.
Where the hell did he say that cArn "deserved" to be in a pro house? Are you just making shit up to argue with a well known community member? Trololol indeed.
He didnt say that, but if carns mindset is that he can only train in prohouse, then its kinda retarded. My post was towards carn and his "i cannot train without prohouse"
But you don't know what types of conditions he had. No offense but you've probably never been to Korea, or spent any amount of time here to know what it's like as a foreigner. It's not that he can only train in a prohouse, it's that while a Prohouse might be the best environment to improve your skills, it's not like PC Bang's or where he was living is a good environment. His mindset isn't a prohouse = must, his mindset is a good environment, which while he's in Korea, he never really had consistently.
On January 13 2012 14:33 Wolf wrote: When cArn says he couldn't practise for a few months, he doesn't mean "Well, for these months I didn't play StarCraft and I was walking around Seoul going to Cat Cafés and singing Christmas Carols". He means that he wasn't able to train in ideal conditions. Being with cArn through a lot of this transition period, I know it was difficult for him to train. Training in PC방 is not the same thing as being in a pro house, and it affected him mentally. I don't know anything about his training in the ProS House, but this guy did not back down when he was in the GOM House. And he put in the time.
How stupid is that? Why would cArn deserve to be in pro house? He is propably average grandmaster/top master level in eu/na. And you know what, 99.99% of foreigner progamers arent in pro house, still they train and dont cry "I CANNOT TRAIN IN IDEAL CONDITIONS" trollol.
Where the hell did he say that cArn "deserved" to be in a pro house? Are you just making shit up to argue with a well known community member? Trololol indeed.
He didnt say that, but if carns mindset is that he can only train in prohouse, then its kinda retarded. My post was towards carn and his "i cannot train without prohouse"
You're not understanding wolfs statement, an ideal condition doesn't mean "progaming house" in this scenario it only means a place where he would be able to practice. Now you imagine, he's in a foreign country with no financial support. PCbangs will cost him money and I don't really think he had the money for an apartment + internet. You do understand you can't practice without internet do you?
On January 12 2012 20:34 RPR_Tempest wrote: If that is honestly the reason they dropped him, then that's fucking bullshit. cArn is an incredibly hard working player. He decides not to attend ONE TIME and they drop him even though he's sacrificed everything to try and participate in GSL? What the fuck, eSahara.
EDIT: If you're going to be disrespectful and say shit like "Who cares, cArn has achieved nothing."
Well he basically was brought to korea to train and then is like nahh i dont wanna do gsl i think il get raped. Like it never hurts to try right? From what they tell us it sounds like he just obviously doesn't care or feels he actually will just get raped and not want to embarass himself. Sad though
On January 12 2012 20:34 RPR_Tempest wrote: If that is honestly the reason they dropped him, then that's fucking bullshit. cArn is an incredibly hard working player. He decides not to attend ONE TIME and they drop him even though he's sacrificed everything to try and participate in GSL? What the fuck, eSahara.
EDIT: If you're going to be disrespectful and say shit like "Who cares, cArn has achieved nothing."
Well he basically was brought to korea to train and then is like nahh i dont wanna do gsl i think il get raped. Like it never hurts to try right? From what they tell us it sounds like he just obviously doesn't care or feels he actually will just get raped and not want to embarass himself. Sad though
You should read some of cArn's backstory before you embarrass yourself. I dont' think anything of what you said is actually true.
eSahara runs a business, if they think a player doesn't do what they require - be it results, public relationship or whatever - they have every right to close the partnership. If anything, they had been kind enough to let us know what they really think.
On January 13 2012 14:33 Wolf wrote: When cArn says he couldn't practise for a few months, he doesn't mean "Well, for these months I didn't play StarCraft and I was walking around Seoul going to Cat Cafés and singing Christmas Carols". He means that he wasn't able to train in ideal conditions. Being with cArn through a lot of this transition period, I know it was difficult for him to train. Training in PC방 is not the same thing as being in a pro house, and it affected him mentally. I don't know anything about his training in the ProS House, but this guy did not back down when he was in the GOM House. And he put in the time.
How stupid is that? Why would cArn deserve to be in pro house? He is propably average grandmaster/top master level in eu/na. And you know what, 99.99% of foreigner progamers arent in pro house, still they train and dont cry "I CANNOT TRAIN IN IDEAL CONDITIONS" trollol.
When you sacrifice pretty much everything to live in a foreign country to try and make it and a team picks you up knowing this, you'd at least expect them to give you the chance to train in a ideal environment - especially when it appears that they lead you to believe this would be the case in the first place. I doubt cArn signed with any team that said "Well we can't support you in Korea at all whatsoever," being that it was his goal to succeed in Korea.
On January 13 2012 14:33 Wolf wrote: When cArn says he couldn't practise for a few months, he doesn't mean "Well, for these months I didn't play StarCraft and I was walking around Seoul going to Cat Cafés and singing Christmas Carols". He means that he wasn't able to train in ideal conditions. Being with cArn through a lot of this transition period, I know it was difficult for him to train. Training in PC방 is not the same thing as being in a pro house, and it affected him mentally. I don't know anything about his training in the ProS House, but this guy did not back down when he was in the GOM House. And he put in the time.
How stupid is that? Why would cArn deserve to be in pro house? He is propably average grandmaster/top master level in eu/na. And you know what, 99.99% of foreigner progamers arent in pro house, still they train and dont cry "I CANNOT TRAIN IN IDEAL CONDITIONS" trollol.
When you sacrifice pretty much everything to live in a foreign country to try and make it and a team picks you up knowing this, you'd at least expect them to give you the chance to train in a ideal environment - especially when it appears that they lead you to believe this would be the case in the first place. I doubt cArn signed with any team that said "Well we can't support you in Korea at all whatsoever," being that it was his goal to succeed in Korea.
Just what I wanted to say! As cArn said, no results. Leave it at that.
Sad to hear that cArn wasn't able to get the support he needed from eSahara. I would love to see Quantic pick him up and put him in the startale house.
Regardless of how well cArn is performing as a player eSahara management should have handled it better.
A more professional outfit would have simply stated that they're parting ways with the player and wish him well in his future endeavors. No drama just goodbye and goodluck.
On January 12 2012 20:34 RPR_Tempest wrote: If that is honestly the reason they dropped him, then that's fucking bullshit. cArn is an incredibly hard working player. He decides not to attend ONE TIME and they drop him even though he's sacrificed everything to try and participate in GSL? What the fuck, eSahara.
EDIT: If you're going to be disrespectful and say shit like "Who cares, cArn has achieved nothing."
Well he basically was brought to korea to train and then is like nahh i dont wanna do gsl i think il get raped. Like it never hurts to try right? From what they tell us it sounds like he just obviously doesn't care or feels he actually will just get raped and not want to embarass himself. Sad though
I'm assuming you've never played in a LAN. Even smaller sized LANs are physically and mentally exhausting due to little to no breaks and awful playing conditions. If he doesn't feel he is playing well, there's no reason to put himself through a let down.
On January 14 2012 14:13 Horse...falcon wrote: Regardless of how well cArn is performing as a player eSahara management should have handled it better.
A more professional outfit would have simply stated that they're parting ways with the player and wish him well in his future endeavors. No drama just goodbye and goodluck.
That wouldn't stop people from being curious and wondering why it happened, and there's nothing to stop cArn from making his earlier statement explaining what happened. In that scenario eSahara would HAVE to make a statement, otherwise they'd look worse for not being transparent with everyone. What they did was definitely the lesser of two evils, although ideally they should have been completely frank about it from the start and agreed with cArn: "no results."
EPT
cArn. 
