EPTcArn and eSahara parts ways - Page 3
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Gevna
France2332 Posts
| ||
|
Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
From a business perspective, why would you keep someone like that? And its not just the fact that he has little achievements - its that he doesn't have any at all. I don't see how why any team would justify keeping him. | ||
|
Passion
Netherlands1486 Posts
On January 12 2012 20:51 zere wrote: Well, I'm sorry, but when you compare cArn, who -dedicated his last 16 months completely to SC2 -leaving his family and friends -travels around the world for tournaments, Korea, China, etc. -lives on his own in a foreign country -passed on a ticket to the frikkin Olympics to an organization that -failed to background-check the identity and whereabouts of a newly signed player -failed to correctly fill out a simple form for a flight -does not have the faith to listen to one of their players who has 1,5 years of first-hand experience of what they are about to do themselves then I ask myself which one of the aforementioned parties suffers from a lack of motivation. What horrible faith this poor cArn had. Being able to focus fully on SC2 for more than a year, traveling the globe and seeing exotic and exciting places, living in a foreign country. Everyone I know would gladly sacrifice not seeing their friends and family as often in order to get such an amazing opportunity. Regarding eSahara - how do a failed background-check and a form mix-up relate to lack of motivation? Oh my god! They can't even run a government size bureaucracy and make human mistakes! Atrocious! I don't know much about the details of this all, like the rest of us, but if you look at any sport, the only thing that counts is performance / potential. From what I read, cArn showed neither. | ||
|
KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On January 12 2012 21:02 Gevna wrote: I don't understand your reaction, since eSahara is not a charitable association, I don't see why they have to keep paying a player who is not performing well. I don't want to diss cArn, but eSahara does not deserve flame for this. They deserve it more for naama's flight ticket. What if naama fails, too? Does he get kicked out of the team? Or do they keep him because he had success in NA/EU? What if carn stayed in EU/NA and didn't go to korea? So many open questions, overall bad decision by eSahara and lack of proper organization for them. They should've just moved him to EU/NA to play in online tournaments and all that instead of focusing only on the GSL. | ||
|
turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On January 12 2012 20:57 mazqo wrote: Why should he keep at it? He has practiced over a year full time and still isnt that good. He seriously should stop trying to play this game professionally, he will never be top player. tyler said on sotg that to get good at bw, you had to spend the best part of 2 years in korea. and that was with a game which apart from for the top 2/3 people had been "solved" where you could go there and copy an s class and just do that and win. sc2 has noone you can copy and is changing so fast its not unreasonable for it to take longer. maybe hes not trying to gimmick his way to 1 gsl win but rather get good so he can play at a top level for a long time, maybe he wont ever make it, but theres no need to be a douche about a guy for trying | ||
|
Frogsox
Australia274 Posts
On January 12 2012 20:46 mazqo wrote: Dudes, cArn has achieved nothing in this game. Who gives a shit if he sacrifices something to go to and try to be professional sc2 player, shit happens, no talent, move on. While that sounds a little bit harsh, I agree with the sentiment. I do admire the dedication that cArn has displayed throughout his career with eSahara (unless that statement about his lack of practice leading into the latest round of qualifiers is true) and he's been extremely disciplined in his approach. However, if I am paying someone to play for my (hypothetical) team and represent my sponsors on the international stage then I wouldn't be particularly happy with my return on investment in a player like cArn. He simply hasn't shown the kind of improvement or results necessary to warrant a spot on a team in eSahara's position considering he's been playing on the Korean server non-stop for a very long time. I understand that conditions haven't always been great for cArn, he hasn't had a solid team house structure like a lot of the other foreign players who've come to Korea. Also he's been trying to get through one of the hardest tournaments in the world in order to participate in the GSL proper. I have the feeling that a team like Complexity (not necessarily Complexity, but just an example) could give cArn a shot though considering they have a partnership in Korea and a team house environment where cArn would be able to train much more effectively than he has in the post. Given his dedication to staying in Korea in the long term I would think a team would take a gamble on his skill level improving should he be able to train in a good environment compared to his previous situations. I hope someone gives him a shot, because his hard work and dedication is admirable. However, I agree with eSahara's move to remove him from their roster (if not all the stated reasons) if I look at it from a management position given that he's under performing as a player and has failed to make any breakthroughs in a long time. | ||
|
zeru
8156 Posts
| ||
|
Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
On January 12 2012 21:05 turdburgler wrote: tyler said on sotg that to get good at bw, you had to spend the best part of 2 years in korea. and that was with a game which apart from for the top 2/3 people had been "solved" where you could go there and copy an s class and just do that and win. sc2 has noone you can copy and is changing so fast its not unreasonable for it to take longer. maybe hes not trying to gimmick his way to 1 gsl win but rather get good so he can play at a top level for a long time, maybe he wont ever make it, but theres no need to be a douche about a guy for trying He's had over a year, and SC2 hasn't even been out for 2 years. If it takes 2 years to be one of th ebest at SC2, then it's impossible for anyone to be the best currently. He's tried, and so far he hasn't succeeded, so eSahara are dropping him. Maybe the explanation/translation of the explanation isn't a good one, but it's something teams should consider doing more often. If players aren't performing where you expect/hope them to, and aren't contributing to the team, why keep them on the team? | ||
|
KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On January 12 2012 21:05 Frogsox wrote: I hope someone gives him a shot, because his hard work and dedication is admirable. However, I agree with eSahara's move to remove him from their roster (if not all the stated reasons) if I look at it from a management position given that he's under performing as a player and has failed to make any breakthroughs in a long time. So you support them not doing their work(=supporting their player)? and instead of doing reasonable things(getting him out of korea to play in tournaments foreigners usually play in, like playhems, go4sc ipl, dreamhack etc) they just drop him for good? You gotta admit that it's pretty dumb from eSahara to do that. Because their reasoning is that he didn't do well in GSL while 99% of the foreigners don't do well in GSL yet they stay in teams and get paid and have sponsorships. He's had over a year, and SC2 hasn't even been out for 2 years. If it takes 2 years to be one of th ebest at SC2, then it's impossible for anyone to be the best currently. Thats not true. He was all on his own and not in a korean teamhouse. Yes he was in Korea, but he didn't have korean practice. Only playing on korean ladder doesn't do the whole job... If I had a team I'd pick up cArn and look how he does in EU/NA. Way better than just saying "Oh you failed in GSL where the best of the best play and nearly every foreigner failed before with a few exceptions OMG YOU MUST BE SO BAD LOL NEWBIE!"... | ||
|
Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
On January 12 2012 21:05 turdburgler wrote: tyler said on sotg that to get good at bw, you had to spend the best part of 2 years in korea. and that was with a game which apart from for the top 2/3 people had been "solved" where you could go there and copy an s class and just do that and win. sc2 has noone you can copy and is changing so fast its not unreasonable for it to take longer. maybe hes not trying to gimmick his way to 1 gsl win but rather get good so he can play at a top level for a long time, maybe he wont ever make it, but theres no need to be a douche about a guy for trying That's because BW had established powerhouses. To make the A team you had to practice that much. Its not "practice for 2 years and you're gold!" Its practice for 2 years and catch up to the A teamers. Some of you supporters are making some weird analogies including names like Jinro and naama. Carn and Jinro/naama are worlds apart, both in tournament achievements and popularity. Whats the benefit of keeping carn? I don't any benefits, so as a business you cut your losses and you try and move forward. If carn really is a hard worker he'll be fine. But my guess is that hes not, that's why he hasn't made a splash on any level of competition and why he was dropped from his team. | ||
|
mazqo
Finland368 Posts
On January 12 2012 21:05 turdburgler wrote: tyler said on sotg that to get good at bw, you had to spend the best part of 2 years in korea. and that was with a game which apart from for the top 2/3 people had been "solved" where you could go there and copy an s class and just do that and win. sc2 has noone you can copy and is changing so fast its not unreasonable for it to take longer. maybe hes not trying to gimmick his way to 1 gsl win but rather get good so he can play at a top level for a long time, maybe he wont ever make it, but theres no need to be a douche about a guy for trying Do you know how many players try to be good at in any competitive sport/game and devote their time to training so they could earn living doing that? Very many. The talented ones will be at the top and rest will fail. Good for cArn for trying, but how much time should he spend trying? 1 more year? maybe 5 more years? Sometimes its just better cut your losses and move on. | ||
|
bGr.MetHiX
Bulgaria511 Posts
On January 12 2012 20:39 Technique wrote: First get good then move to Korea is the story to learn here... yeah,if you were desrow you could say that again | ||
|
BabyToss!
Czech Republic588 Posts
| ||
|
Frogsox
Australia274 Posts
On January 12 2012 21:09 KeksX wrote: So you support them not doing their work(=supporting their player) and instead of doing reasonable things(getting him out of korea to play in tournaments foreigners usually play in, like playhems, go4sc ipl, dreamhack etc)? You gotta admit that it's pretty dumb from eSahara to do that. Because their reasoning is that he didn't do well in GSL while 99% of the foreigners don't do well in GSL yet they stay in teams and get paid and have sponsorships. I think that's kind of a leap to make. We don't really know the story behind cArn and eSahara with regards to his long term stay in Korea. Had the team forced him to stay in Korea to play there and try to get exposure for the team then I might be inclined to agree with you. Had cArn wanted to stay in Korea and showed a reluctance to come back to Europe (either in the short term or for a more permanent stay) then that's another situation. However, we can only speculate and I'm not really interested in doing that. Could eSahara encouraged cArn to come back and stay in Europe and represent them in that region? Probably. But I don't think flying cArn back and forth from Korea is really an option for the team since that flight pattern is expensive and time consuming and not many teams have the resources to fly someone like cArn (he sure doesn't have the exposure or fame factor that Idra/Naniwa/HuK have) around the world to do this. | ||
|
hewley
Germany1063 Posts
On January 12 2012 21:05 KeksX wrote: What if naama fails, too? Does he get kicked out of the team? Or do they keep him because he had success in NA/EU? What if carn stayed in EU/NA and didn't go to korea? So many open questions, overall bad decision by eSahara and lack of proper organization for them. They should've just moved him to EU/NA to play in online tournaments and all that instead of focusing only on the GSL. But what if cArn refused to go to EU/NA? As far as I know, he always wanted to stay in Korea. At the moment, he is just a random ladder player, who doesn't provide eSahara with any exposure... | ||
|
Serimek
France2274 Posts
Aside from that, let's hope cArn will keep on keepin' on... | ||
|
KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On January 12 2012 21:16 Frogsox wrote: I think that's kind of a leap to make. We don't really know the story behind cArn and eSahara with regards to his long term stay in Korea. Had the team forced him to stay in Korea to play there and try to get exposure for the team then I might be inclined to agree with you. Had cArn wanted to stay in Korea and showed a reluctance to come back to Europe (either in the short term or for a more permanent stay) then that's another situation. However, we can only speculate and I'm not really interested in doing that. Could eSahara encouraged cArn to come back and stay in Europe and represent them in that region? Probably. But I don't think flying cArn back and forth from Korea is really an option for the team since that flight pattern is expensive and time consuming and not many teams have the resources to fly someone like cArn (he sure doesn't have the exposure or fame factor that Idra/Naniwa/HuK have) around the world to do this. On January 12 2012 21:19 hewley wrote: But what if cArn refused to go to EU/NA? As far as I know, he always wanted to stay in Korea. At the moment, he is just a random ladder player, who doesn't provide eSahara with any exposure... Well but if cArn had stubbornly wanted to stay in Korea and not try his luck elsewhere then eSahara could just say that and not make up this stuff where he doesn't have motivation etc, because thats just a weird ...lie? And I think they could arrange something so that cArn could stay in EU/NA long time if they could do that for him in KR. | ||
|
Xcobidoo
Sweden1871 Posts
| ||
|
Ym!r
131 Posts
On January 12 2012 20:47 Detrimentally wrote: this is disguting. eSahara has lost my support and I hope they fail (or waste all of their money on more fake players). MORE HATE PLS... And you think you're not disgusting ? which pro wouldn't spend one day in the qualifier just to test themselves ? if the goal is to pass the qualifier then every qualifier should be an opportunity to do better than last one, especially considering there's less qualifier in 2012 than before. | ||
|
xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
| ||
| ||
