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cArn and eSahara parts ways - Page 15

Forum Index > SC2 General
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motionSIGN
Profile Joined December 2011
Andorra45 Posts
January 13 2012 00:14 GMT
#281
On January 13 2012 09:10 Eee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2012 08:07 Shinta) wrote:
On January 13 2012 07:27 magnaflow wrote:
On January 12 2012 20:58 Ruscour wrote:
On January 12 2012 20:57 mazqo wrote:
On January 12 2012 20:54 Ruscour wrote:
edit: i was quite mean.

best of luck to cArn, keep at it...as long as he's still practicing hard i do not understand this decision.

Why should he keep at it? He has practiced over a year full time and still isnt that good. He seriously should stop trying to play this game professionally, he will never be top player.

Not with that attitude. Would you say the same about Jinro?



I would. Other then the early GSL and MLG Dallas what has Jinro done? Nothing, he's just your average foreigner who lives in Korea.



Point is that a player who may not be doing well currently does not necessarily not have the potential to make a breakthrough or improve, such as Jinro has done. Thus, carn still has a chance to get good.

People who are currently in diamond league and started playing sc2 as their first PC game and first RTS game also have a potential to be pro if they develop the work ethic. That doesn't mean they'll be pro soon, but let's not discredit possibilities.
Sure cArn might be able to achieve something at some point, but when you hire a player as a professional with salary etc, you expect things out of him. I doubt they were all fine and dandy with cArn, until all of a sudden he didn't sign up for GSL qualies and OMG REALLY? KICKED GTFO! It was probably a last straw sort of deal. ofc I know nothing of the situation at all, so take my words with a grain of salt as I'm completely uninformed, but strategical moves are usually made strategically. Rather than using all their money on someone who never does anything, how about use it to recruit someone who has and might continue to do stuff?

Besides, I don't understand this whole thing about "after getting kicked out of GOM House I couldn't practice for 5-6 months". Did he not have a computer? Does every pro player hate his guts for some reason? Unless 1 or both of those are true, he might have a harder time training, but seriously? that's the most pathetic excuse I've ever seen. There are a bunch of pros who don't live in a team house, who train daily on ladder, through game analysis, and through pro gamer friends.

I used to be quite involved in management, and although there are probably things that I don't know about the situation, these things in front of me in this thread only, I discredit cArn more than eSahara. Especially after recruiting Maka, they have better opportunities to look out for.

As far as I understand when he got kicked out he basically didn't have any place to stay in Korea so he took in at some motel that didn't have internet. No internet = no practice


PC bang = practice...

Honnestly i used to be a big fan of cArn, but did you read all statement, cArn was in a pro house for 3 month and did not practiced... Will you call this motivation ? oO
Meeeow
XRaDiiX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada1730 Posts
January 13 2012 00:22 GMT
#282
cArn was in a pro house for 3 month and did not practiced...


and that seems to be the verdict if a player refuses to or doesn't practice for that long they can become much worse at the game.

Heck if i don't play sc2 for a few days i get rusty and start risking to lose masters League.
Never GG MKP | IdrA
Sein
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1811 Posts
January 13 2012 01:59 GMT
#283
When I'm reading "didn't practice for 5 months" or whatever, does that actually mean he barely touched SC2 during that period? I find that hard to believe.
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-03 15:19:07
January 13 2012 02:03 GMT
#284
meh
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
Gladiator6
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden7024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-13 02:10:26
January 13 2012 02:09 GMT
#285
On January 13 2012 09:04 F8 wrote:
At first I thought this was about Fnatic cArn. lol. Sad to see he has lost the passion to play


Why would they post in a sc2 general forum about a cs player, makes no sense

I fully understand eSaharas choice.
Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO
mango_destroyer
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3914 Posts
January 13 2012 02:16 GMT
#286
LOL? In the past people would complain about teams giving generic/vague reasons why a player is let go and demanding the full details. Yet now eSahara gives the details and NOW we complain it`s unprofessional? I sure hope these aren`t the same people.

Maybe now people will realize why most teams are more tight lipped about the full details because it can really ruin the player`s image. The community isn`t entitled to 100% transparency to business decisions of organizations.
Bayyne
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1967 Posts
January 13 2012 02:19 GMT
#287
On January 13 2012 11:16 mango_destroyer wrote:
LOL? In the past people would complain about teams giving generic/vague reasons why a player is let go and demanding the full details. Yet now eSahara gives the details and NOW we complain it`s unprofessional? I sure hope these aren`t the same people.

Maybe now people will realize why most teams are more tight lipped about the full details because it can really ruin the player`s image. The community isn`t entitled to 100% transparency to business decisions of organizations.


I just can't help but laugh. Not at what you said, because I 100% agree, but rather because it seems like you reworded what Xeris just wrote.

I guess I expect everyone to read at least a few of the recent comments in a thread before they post, but meh.
Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.
Kergy
Profile Joined December 2010
Peru2011 Posts
January 13 2012 02:20 GMT
#288
I feel bad for him but can't say I'm impressed by this move.

In general, I'm not sure why some foreigners still think that just going to Korea is going to help them in any way. You are not GM in EU/US, can't speak a single korean word let alone discuss with other korean pros, you hang out with foreigners all the time, play ladder all day and expect to improve?

It doesn't make sense unless it's the air or water in Korea that makes their players so good and I'm pretty sure that's not the case. GL anyways, cArn.
Everyday Girl's Day~!
Sein
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1811 Posts
January 13 2012 02:38 GMT
#289
On January 13 2012 11:03 desRow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2012 03:04 Xeris wrote:
It's funny how people complain when teams release cookie cutter explanations, "we were going in different directions so we decided to part ways,"

and now when a team actually posts the reasons they removed someone from their team everyone bitches?

eSahara didn't handle it quite well, and even if it isn't true, their belief is what matters. They believed that he didn't put in enough effort. If you're not putting effort and not getting results == kicked from the team. That's what they said. They were actually 100% transparent, more so than almost every other team. And yet, when people now hear the real reason they complain.

If eShara had said, "well, cArn and us decided to go a different direction," people would still be complaining and asking for the real reason.


hit the nail on the coffin,

ps love you


I'm sorry, weren't you also complaining?

On January 13 2012 00:26 desRow wrote:
It's not about letting him go that bothers me, it's the way they do it. They should have been more neutral and a bit more professional, sucky situation T_T
bubblegumbo
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Taiwan1296 Posts
January 13 2012 02:39 GMT
#290
On January 13 2012 03:04 Xeris wrote:
It's funny how people complain when teams release cookie cutter explanations, "we were going in different directions so we decided to part ways,"

and now when a team actually posts the reasons they removed someone from their team everyone bitches?

eSahara didn't handle it quite well, and even if it isn't true, their belief is what matters. They believed that he didn't put in enough effort. If you're not putting effort and not getting results == kicked from the team. That's what they said. They were


I am not one of those that get bothered by cookie cutter explanations, but you have to be naive to not think that eSahara release this press statement to make them look like the good guys, they literally threw a guy under the bus without offering his side of the story when they just needed to make a neutral statement.
This guy sacrifice a ton on his own accord to actually live in Korea on his own, yet they attacked his conviction and motivation. It's really shocking that someone like you who have worked in this scene for so long and know how tough it is to be so insensitive. There are plenty of dramas in the past when managers and players have complete break downs in relationships or massive fights between teammmates, what kind of team PR decides to disclose that to public when they fire the player? The truth may leak out in forums as rumors, but rumors are irrelevant after a short while especially if nobody involved chooses to substantiate them.

It starts to look bad when both sides are forced to point fingers at each other because of one side choosing to attack first publicly.
There are many progamers that have yet to succeed in anything since SC2 came out, many of which we never hear about when their team releases them. Their teams didn't go out of their way to cover their asses and shift the blame on the player they fired either. You do not do that in any industry unless you want to bad rep.

eSahara had enough bad PR already before this happened, personally I didn't really care about the previous blunders since it's not their fault(other than hiring that one guy to post official news with terrible grammar), but this time they are clearly at fault for pushing someone under the bus.
"I honestly think that whoever invented toilet paper is a genius. For man to survive, they need toilet paper!"- Nal_rA
skrzmark
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1528 Posts
January 13 2012 02:53 GMT
#291
How could Carn even practice with his team when at the time he and fury were the only members on the team?
We got them GOM TvT's and them mlGG's
mango_destroyer
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3914 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-13 03:03:39
January 13 2012 02:58 GMT
#292
edit - do not want to derail.
Kamikiri
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1319 Posts
January 13 2012 04:31 GMT
#293
Okay well, thank you to eSahara for posting the reasons they removed him and being transparent.

I don't believe he is completely demotivated but from what they said he hasn't played at all in 3 months so I suppose I understand the decision from a business standpoint.

I really like Carn and I hope he does well, very well in fact.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5767 Posts
January 13 2012 04:38 GMT
#294
On January 13 2012 11:16 mango_destroyer wrote:
LOL? In the past people would complain about teams giving generic/vague reasons why a player is let go and demanding the full details. Yet now eSahara gives the details and NOW we complain it`s unprofessional? I sure hope these aren`t the same people.

Maybe now people will realize why most teams are more tight lipped about the full details because it can really ruin the player`s image. The community isn`t entitled to 100% transparency to business decisions of organizations.

The objection in the thread tends to be that eSahara might be shoveling manure in our faces. It's not hypocritical because people aren't complaining about vague reasons and about detailed reasons. They're complaining about vague reasons in most cases and possibly bullshit reasons in cArn's case. Better to just say he didn't post the results they wanted.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
CeriseCherries
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
6170 Posts
January 13 2012 04:41 GMT
#295
idk. I want to see what Carn says in his blog because it's usually very very very informative
Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
RDaneelOlivaw
Profile Joined April 2011
Vatican City State733 Posts
January 13 2012 04:41 GMT
#296
On January 13 2012 13:38 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2012 11:16 mango_destroyer wrote:
LOL? In the past people would complain about teams giving generic/vague reasons why a player is let go and demanding the full details. Yet now eSahara gives the details and NOW we complain it`s unprofessional? I sure hope these aren`t the same people.

Maybe now people will realize why most teams are more tight lipped about the full details because it can really ruin the player`s image. The community isn`t entitled to 100% transparency to business decisions of organizations.

The objection in the thread tends to be that eSahara might be shoveling manure in our faces. It's not hypocritical because people aren't complaining about vague reasons and about detailed reasons. They're complaining about vague reasons in most cases and possibly bullshit reasons in cArn's case. Better to just say he didn't post the results they wanted.

If nothing else they could have changed their tone. I have no issue with them saying that carn isn't practicing enough for them but the way they worded it was inappropriate. List your reasons, fine. I'd be happier if more teams and players did that. But try to avoid coming off as a whiny little bitch while doing it.
Severian
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia2052 Posts
January 13 2012 05:07 GMT
#297
Remember that the press release was in French, and the OP is a translation. It may come across as less tactful than it was intended.
Wolf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)3290 Posts
January 13 2012 05:33 GMT
#298
When cArn says he couldn't practise for a few months, he doesn't mean "Well, for these months I didn't play StarCraft and I was walking around Seoul going to Cat Cafés and singing Christmas Carols". He means that he wasn't able to train in ideal conditions. Being with cArn through a lot of this transition period, I know it was difficult for him to train. Training in PC방 is not the same thing as being in a pro house, and it affected him mentally. I don't know anything about his training in the ProS House, but this guy did not back down when he was in the GOM House. And he put in the time.
Commentatorhttp://twitter.com/proxywolf
TL+ Member
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
January 13 2012 06:14 GMT
#299
On January 13 2012 03:04 Xeris wrote:
It's funny how people complain when teams release cookie cutter explanations, "we were going in different directions so we decided to part ways,"

and now when a team actually posts the reasons they removed someone from their team everyone bitches?

eSahara didn't handle it quite well, and even if it isn't true, their belief is what matters. They believed that he didn't put in enough effort. If you're not putting effort and not getting results == kicked from the team. That's what they said. They were actually 100% transparent, more so than almost every other team. And yet, when people now hear the real reason they complain.

If eShara had said, "well, cArn and us decided to go a different direction," people would still be complaining and asking for the real reason.


Oh look at that, in a community with thousands of people there are different opinions, what a shocking surprise!
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-13 07:08:56
January 13 2012 07:08 GMT
#300
On January 13 2012 14:33 Wolf wrote:
When cArn says he couldn't practise for a few months, he doesn't mean "Well, for these months I didn't play StarCraft and I was walking around Seoul going to Cat Cafés and singing Christmas Carols". He means that he wasn't able to train in ideal conditions. Being with cArn through a lot of this transition period, I know it was difficult for him to train. Training in PC방 is not the same thing as being in a pro house, and it affected him mentally. I don't know anything about his training in the ProS House, but this guy did not back down when he was in the GOM House. And he put in the time.


exactly. carn says he did not practice for 5-6 months and people freak out. OBVIOUSLY it doesn't mean he just held his balls and walked Korea. It MEANS that he was "practicing" sc2 just as if he were at home in France. Which is not ideal if you went all the way to korea to play in the gsl.
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