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On January 13 2012 09:10 Eee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 08:07 Shinta) wrote:On January 13 2012 07:27 magnaflow wrote:On January 12 2012 20:58 Ruscour wrote:On January 12 2012 20:57 mazqo wrote:On January 12 2012 20:54 Ruscour wrote:
edit: i was quite mean.
best of luck to cArn, keep at it...as long as he's still practicing hard i do not understand this decision. Why should he keep at it? He has practiced over a year full time and still isnt that good. He seriously should stop trying to play this game professionally, he will never be top player. Not with that attitude. Would you say the same about Jinro? I would. Other then the early GSL and MLG Dallas what has Jinro done? Nothing, he's just your average foreigner who lives in Korea. Point is that a player who may not be doing well currently does not necessarily not have the potential to make a breakthrough or improve, such as Jinro has done. Thus, carn still has a chance to get good. People who are currently in diamond league and started playing sc2 as their first PC game and first RTS game also have a potential to be pro if they develop the work ethic. That doesn't mean they'll be pro soon, but let's not discredit possibilities. Sure cArn might be able to achieve something at some point, but when you hire a player as a professional with salary etc, you expect things out of him. I doubt they were all fine and dandy with cArn, until all of a sudden he didn't sign up for GSL qualies and OMG REALLY? KICKED GTFO! It was probably a last straw sort of deal. ofc I know nothing of the situation at all, so take my words with a grain of salt as I'm completely uninformed, but strategical moves are usually made strategically. Rather than using all their money on someone who never does anything, how about use it to recruit someone who has and might continue to do stuff? Besides, I don't understand this whole thing about "after getting kicked out of GOM House I couldn't practice for 5-6 months". Did he not have a computer? Does every pro player hate his guts for some reason? Unless 1 or both of those are true, he might have a harder time training, but seriously? that's the most pathetic excuse I've ever seen. There are a bunch of pros who don't live in a team house, who train daily on ladder, through game analysis, and through pro gamer friends. I used to be quite involved in management, and although there are probably things that I don't know about the situation, these things in front of me in this thread only, I discredit cArn more than eSahara. Especially after recruiting Maka, they have better opportunities to look out for. As far as I understand when he got kicked out he basically didn't have any place to stay in Korea so he took in at some motel that didn't have internet. No internet = no practice
PC bang = practice...
Honnestly i used to be a big fan of cArn, but did you read all statement, cArn was in a pro house for 3 month and did not practiced... Will you call this motivation ? oO
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cArn was in a pro house for 3 month and did not practiced...
and that seems to be the verdict if a player refuses to or doesn't practice for that long they can become much worse at the game.
Heck if i don't play sc2 for a few days i get rusty and start risking to lose masters League.
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When I'm reading "didn't practice for 5 months" or whatever, does that actually mean he barely touched SC2 during that period? I find that hard to believe.
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On January 13 2012 09:04 F8 wrote:
At first I thought this was about Fnatic cArn. lol. Sad to see he has lost the passion to play
Why would they post in a sc2 general forum about a cs player, makes no sense 
I fully understand eSaharas choice.
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LOL? In the past people would complain about teams giving generic/vague reasons why a player is let go and demanding the full details. Yet now eSahara gives the details and NOW we complain it`s unprofessional? I sure hope these aren`t the same people.
Maybe now people will realize why most teams are more tight lipped about the full details because it can really ruin the player`s image. The community isn`t entitled to 100% transparency to business decisions of organizations.
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On January 13 2012 11:16 mango_destroyer wrote:
LOL? In the past people would complain about teams giving generic/vague reasons why a player is let go and demanding the full details. Yet now eSahara gives the details and NOW we complain it`s unprofessional? I sure hope these aren`t the same people.
Maybe now people will realize why most teams are more tight lipped about the full details because it can really ruin the player`s image. The community isn`t entitled to 100% transparency to business decisions of organizations.
I just can't help but laugh. Not at what you said, because I 100% agree, but rather because it seems like you reworded what Xeris just wrote.
I guess I expect everyone to read at least a few of the recent comments in a thread before they post, but meh.
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I feel bad for him but can't say I'm impressed by this move.
In general, I'm not sure why some foreigners still think that just going to Korea is going to help them in any way. You are not GM in EU/US, can't speak a single korean word let alone discuss with other korean pros, you hang out with foreigners all the time, play ladder all day and expect to improve?
It doesn't make sense unless it's the air or water in Korea that makes their players so good and I'm pretty sure that's not the case. GL anyways, cArn.
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On January 13 2012 11:03 desRow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 03:04 Xeris wrote:
It's funny how people complain when teams release cookie cutter explanations, "we were going in different directions so we decided to part ways,"
and now when a team actually posts the reasons they removed someone from their team everyone bitches?
eSahara didn't handle it quite well, and even if it isn't true, their belief is what matters. They believed that he didn't put in enough effort. If you're not putting effort and not getting results == kicked from the team. That's what they said. They were actually 100% transparent, more so than almost every other team. And yet, when people now hear the real reason they complain.
If eShara had said, "well, cArn and us decided to go a different direction," people would still be complaining and asking for the real reason. hit the nail on the coffin, ps love you
I'm sorry, weren't you also complaining?
On January 13 2012 00:26 desRow wrote:
It's not about letting him go that bothers me, it's the way they do it. They should have been more neutral and a bit more professional, sucky situation T_T
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On January 13 2012 03:04 Xeris wrote:
It's funny how people complain when teams release cookie cutter explanations, "we were going in different directions so we decided to part ways,"
and now when a team actually posts the reasons they removed someone from their team everyone bitches?
eSahara didn't handle it quite well, and even if it isn't true, their belief is what matters. They believed that he didn't put in enough effort. If you're not putting effort and not getting results == kicked from the team. That's what they said. They were
I am not one of those that get bothered by cookie cutter explanations, but you have to be naive to not think that eSahara release this press statement to make them look like the good guys, they literally threw a guy under the bus without offering his side of the story when they just needed to make a neutral statement.
This guy sacrifice a ton on his own accord to actually live in Korea on his own, yet they attacked his conviction and motivation. It's really shocking that someone like you who have worked in this scene for so long and know how tough it is to be so insensitive. There are plenty of dramas in the past when managers and players have complete break downs in relationships or massive fights between teammmates, what kind of team PR decides to disclose that to public when they fire the player? The truth may leak out in forums as rumors, but rumors are irrelevant after a short while especially if nobody involved chooses to substantiate them.
It starts to look bad when both sides are forced to point fingers at each other because of one side choosing to attack first publicly.
There are many progamers that have yet to succeed in anything since SC2 came out, many of which we never hear about when their team releases them. Their teams didn't go out of their way to cover their asses and shift the blame on the player they fired either. You do not do that in any industry unless you want to bad rep.
eSahara had enough bad PR already before this happened, personally I didn't really care about the previous blunders since it's not their fault(other than hiring that one guy to post official news with terrible grammar), but this time they are clearly at fault for pushing someone under the bus.
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How could Carn even practice with his team when at the time he and fury were the only members on the team?
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edit - do not want to derail.
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Okay well, thank you to eSahara for posting the reasons they removed him and being transparent.
I don't believe he is completely demotivated but from what they said he hasn't played at all in 3 months so I suppose I understand the decision from a business standpoint.
I really like Carn and I hope he does well, very well in fact.
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On January 13 2012 11:16 mango_destroyer wrote:
LOL? In the past people would complain about teams giving generic/vague reasons why a player is let go and demanding the full details. Yet now eSahara gives the details and NOW we complain it`s unprofessional? I sure hope these aren`t the same people.
Maybe now people will realize why most teams are more tight lipped about the full details because it can really ruin the player`s image. The community isn`t entitled to 100% transparency to business decisions of organizations.
The objection in the thread tends to be that eSahara might be shoveling manure in our faces. It's not hypocritical because people aren't complaining about vague reasons and about detailed reasons. They're complaining about vague reasons in most cases and possibly bullshit reasons in cArn's case. Better to just say he didn't post the results they wanted.
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idk. I want to see what Carn says in his blog because it's usually very very very informative
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Vatican City State733 Posts
On January 13 2012 13:38 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 11:16 mango_destroyer wrote:
LOL? In the past people would complain about teams giving generic/vague reasons why a player is let go and demanding the full details. Yet now eSahara gives the details and NOW we complain it`s unprofessional? I sure hope these aren`t the same people.
Maybe now people will realize why most teams are more tight lipped about the full details because it can really ruin the player`s image. The community isn`t entitled to 100% transparency to business decisions of organizations.
The objection in the thread tends to be that eSahara might be shoveling manure in our faces. It's not hypocritical because people aren't complaining about vague reasons and about detailed reasons. They're complaining about vague reasons in most cases and possibly bullshit reasons in cArn's case. Better to just say he didn't post the results they wanted.
If nothing else they could have changed their tone. I have no issue with them saying that carn isn't practicing enough for them but the way they worded it was inappropriate. List your reasons, fine. I'd be happier if more teams and players did that. But try to avoid coming off as a whiny little bitch while doing it.
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Remember that the press release was in French, and the OP is a translation. It may come across as less tactful than it was intended.
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When cArn says he couldn't practise for a few months, he doesn't mean "Well, for these months I didn't play StarCraft and I was walking around Seoul going to Cat Cafés and singing Christmas Carols". He means that he wasn't able to train in ideal conditions. Being with cArn through a lot of this transition period, I know it was difficult for him to train. Training in PC방 is not the same thing as being in a pro house, and it affected him mentally. I don't know anything about his training in the ProS House, but this guy did not back down when he was in the GOM House. And he put in the time.
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On January 13 2012 03:04 Xeris wrote:
It's funny how people complain when teams release cookie cutter explanations, "we were going in different directions so we decided to part ways,"
and now when a team actually posts the reasons they removed someone from their team everyone bitches?
eSahara didn't handle it quite well, and even if it isn't true, their belief is what matters. They believed that he didn't put in enough effort. If you're not putting effort and not getting results == kicked from the team. That's what they said. They were actually 100% transparent, more so than almost every other team. And yet, when people now hear the real reason they complain.
If eShara had said, "well, cArn and us decided to go a different direction," people would still be complaining and asking for the real reason.
Oh look at that, in a community with thousands of people there are different opinions, what a shocking surprise!
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On January 13 2012 14:33 Wolf wrote:
When cArn says he couldn't practise for a few months, he doesn't mean "Well, for these months I didn't play StarCraft and I was walking around Seoul going to Cat Cafés and singing Christmas Carols". He means that he wasn't able to train in ideal conditions. Being with cArn through a lot of this transition period, I know it was difficult for him to train. Training in PC방 is not the same thing as being in a pro house, and it affected him mentally. I don't know anything about his training in the ProS House, but this guy did not back down when he was in the GOM House. And he put in the time.
exactly. carn says he did not practice for 5-6 months and people freak out. OBVIOUSLY it doesn't mean he just held his balls and walked Korea. It MEANS that he was "practicing" sc2 just as if he were at home in France. Which is not ideal if you went all the way to korea to play in the gsl.
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EPT
