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On December 16 2011 17:17 Stoffelhase wrote:the code S spot was part of the pricepool.. gom and mlg agreed on this, now gom changed it (without telling anyone), lol?! this really makes me sad.. i spent around 7 paid seasons with gom (not too much for them, but at least a lot of money for me), this will end now! i think mlg should talk gom to giving nani a code S spot at least next season.. he earned it and now got tricked out of it! im really angry and sad 
it was never part of the prize pool, stop thinking that. The prize was a spot in the blizzardcup, which they gave nani like they said they would. The code S spot was not part of the providence prize pool
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On December 16 2011 17:20 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 17:17 Stoffelhase wrote:the code S spot was part of the pricepool.. gom and mlg agreed on this, now gom changed it (without telling anyone), lol?! this really makes me sad.. i spent around 7 paid seasons with gom (not too much for them, but at least a lot of money for me), this will end now! i think mlg should talk gom to giving nani a code S spot at least next season.. he earned it and now got tricked out of it! im really angry and sad it was never part of the prize pool, stop thinking that. The prize was a spot in the blizzardcup, which they gave nani like they said they would. The code S spot was not part of the providence prize pool
It was but GOM changed it with out telling anyone. When the exchange program was first announced it was part of it, and it was part of it until GOM changed it.
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On December 16 2011 17:20 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 17:17 Stoffelhase wrote:the code S spot was part of the pricepool.. gom and mlg agreed on this, now gom changed it (without telling anyone), lol?! this really makes me sad.. i spent around 7 paid seasons with gom (not too much for them, but at least a lot of money for me), this will end now! i think mlg should talk gom to giving nani a code S spot at least next season.. he earned it and now got tricked out of it! im really angry and sad it was never part of the prize pool, stop thinking that. The prize was a spot in the blizzardcup, which they gave nani like they said they would. The code S spot was not part of the providence prize pool
If you look back, the winner of the MLG Global Invitational was to get a spot in the Blizzard Cup, which is what happened. I can't see how this isn't Gom going back on their word.
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At MLG the casters were even hyping some of Naniwa's last matches by saying that the code S spot was on the line. Great...
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On December 16 2011 17:06 TheSilverfox wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 15:55 FishForThought wrote:Don't make it sound like this is far fetched and unprecedented. Even in real athletes, people get banned from 'violating spirit of fair play' 4. Ara Abrahamian – Sweden
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Unlike many other athletes on the list, Abrahamian wasn’t found to be doing illegal things. He wasn’t using steroids to enhance his performance or breaking any other serious offense like most athletes on the list. At the 2008 Olympics in Beijing, Abrahamian was up against tough opponents. After the judges finalized their scores, Abrahamian only came in third. However, he and his coach both disputed the scores and claimed the judges were being corrupt and unjust. The two called for a review of the match but this was declined. Come time for the awards ceremony, Abrahamian attended, but when he was handed his bronze medal, he shook the hands of the others, stepped off the podium, and placed it on the wrestling mat. He then chose to leave without his medal. Because of the incident, the IOC held a conference and decided that Abrahamian needed to be suspended for violating the spirit of fair play. He and his coach were to be banned for 2 years, but this was overturned in 2009.
Source: http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-athletes-who-lost-their-olympic-medal.phpI am glad GOM is treating the players like real athletes and the game as a real sport. This is actually the best sport reference I've heard in this whole discussion. Thank you! Another interesting thing here is that Abrahamian is Swedish. In Sweden there was a lot of discussion about this and the Swedish Wrestling Organisation and Swedish Olympic Committé stood behind Abrahamian and basically called the whole decision corrupt - it was not only Abrahamian himself and his coach. On TV and in media when they talked about this nearly everyone supported Abrahamian and his decision. People were really angry at FILA and IOC, different online polls showed about 80-95% support for the fact that Abrahamian did the right thing by placing the medal on the ground. The more I think about it we have a lot of Swedish athletes that are very similar to Naniwa.
I don't really see the analogy here? The ref made a horrible judgement in the game (corrupt or not) and Abrahamian did what he did in protest and considering his view of the wrestling organizasion I'm pretty sure he knew he might get punished for it. I don't think Naniwa had much though of him losing his code s invite or him doing it in some form of protest. He didn't care about that match and threw it.
Also to the person you are responding to, I don't get how you can use this event to argue that gom acts like a real sport when they still invite players arbitrarily into the toughest sc2 tournament in the world. That doesn't exactly seem to me like they are treaing it as a "real sport."
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On December 16 2011 16:39 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 16:31 Bogeyman wrote:On December 16 2011 05:08 Xalorian wrote:
Do you see the irony in that?
They didn't lied and they had the right to do so, it was not against the rule. But doing it without telling anyone was seriously unprofessional.
Naniwa got punished, because he was unprofessional. But, what he did was not against the rule.
Weird, is in it? Yeah it's very ironic. So, GOM has: 1. Altered their part of an agreement. 2. Not told ANYONE involved about it. (edit: MLG, foreign community or Naniwa. They are the ones involved, I don't care if whatever Korean site knew about it or not) Until GOM delivers a sincere apology to MLG, the fans and even Naniwa who's been an unfortunate victim (despite his own actions of which he is of course responsible), I will not support GOM with so much as a dollar. I've paid for GSL season tickets before, and not buying tickets is my only weapon, our only weapon, that GOM really cares about. . So... GOM said in Korean at http://esports.gomtv.com/gsl/community/view.gom?msgid=23986 that there's no guaranteed GSL Code S spot, MLG announces in English there is. This is all GOM's fault and they're the ones being deceptive? Sorry buddy but you're obviously being biased because of the language you speak. Both had publicly released statements which apparently neither read. MLG and GOM are equally culpable, but I would say it's pretty clear to anyone who doesn't want to rage for the sake of raging that it wasn't intentional. Funny thing is none of this would have ever come to pass if Nani doesn't make a mockery out of the Blizzard Cup. It makes me very sad that people like you are refusing to support GOM because you read the English statements while there's are in Korean.
I can't read Korean, and I won't put too much certainty into what google translate tells me, but if you take a look at the upper right corner of the thread you linked to, you can see that it's posted the 22nd of November, two days after MLG Providence where Naniwa had already been informed that he had a Code S spot in the bag, as everyone thought was the case at the time. Until someone can show me an announcement from GOM prior to MLG Providence I will still consider GOM's actions as deceptive, whether they intended to or not, and beyond doubt even you should recognize the lack of respect and professionalism in not informing relevant parties prior to MLG Providence. Now, if there is an announcement in Korean somewhere, posted prior to MLG Providence, that's good. But they should know that when you change the details of an agreement, you MUST speak directly to all parties of the agreement.
Now, under normal circumstances I'm very much an advocate of forgiveness. But I'm even more an advocate of defending the little man from the big man so to speak, and when I see similar acts of disrespect and lack of professionalism from two parties, I would much prefer to show both sides forgiveness and look towards the future. However, when one side has the power to punish the other, and does so, while in turn not being subject to any punishment, I get furious. Now tell me why I shouldn't stand up for the little person in this circumstance?
I'm sure you won't even try to contest that, and instead continue defending the actions of GOM. I just don't see how GOM can be without fault when not even informing MLG about their change. They should know better.
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On December 16 2011 16:39 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 16:31 Bogeyman wrote:On December 16 2011 05:08 Xalorian wrote:
Do you see the irony in that?
They didn't lied and they had the right to do so, it was not against the rule. But doing it without telling anyone was seriously unprofessional.
Naniwa got punished, because he was unprofessional. But, what he did was not against the rule.
Weird, is in it? Yeah it's very ironic. So, GOM has: 1. Altered their part of an agreement. 2. Not told ANYONE involved about it. (edit: MLG, foreign community or Naniwa. They are the ones involved, I don't care if whatever Korean site knew about it or not) Until GOM delivers a sincere apology to MLG, the fans and even Naniwa who's been an unfortunate victim (despite his own actions of which he is of course responsible), I will not support GOM with so much as a dollar. I've paid for GSL season tickets before, and not buying tickets is my only weapon, our only weapon, that GOM really cares about. . So... GOM said in Korean at http://esports.gomtv.com/gsl/community/view.gom?msgid=23986 that there's no guaranteed GSL Code S spot, MLG announces in English there is. This is all GOM's fault and they're the ones being deceptive? Sorry buddy but you're obviously being biased because of the language you speak. Both had publicly released statements which apparently neither read. MLG and GOM are equally culpable, but I would say it's pretty clear to anyone who doesn't want to rage for the sake of raging that it wasn't intentional. Funny thing is none of this would have ever come to pass if Nani doesn't make a mockery out of the Blizzard Cup. It makes me very sad that people like you are refusing to support GOM because you read the English statements while there's are in Korean.
The fuck? Are you kidding? Are we really expected to read stuff in korean now?
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On December 16 2011 17:25 Inky87 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 17:20 hunts wrote:On December 16 2011 17:17 Stoffelhase wrote:the code S spot was part of the pricepool.. gom and mlg agreed on this, now gom changed it (without telling anyone), lol?! this really makes me sad.. i spent around 7 paid seasons with gom (not too much for them, but at least a lot of money for me), this will end now! i think mlg should talk gom to giving nani a code S spot at least next season.. he earned it and now got tricked out of it! im really angry and sad it was never part of the prize pool, stop thinking that. The prize was a spot in the blizzardcup, which they gave nani like they said they would. The code S spot was not part of the providence prize pool If you look back, the winner of the MLG Global Invitational was to get a spot in the Blizzard Cup, which is what happened. I can't see how this isn't Gom going back on their word.
Here's a quote without an edit, at October 6th, 2011. (Since the OP was last updated November 21)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=272406¤tpage=5#91
Global Invitational winner was never supposed to get a spot in Blizzard Cup.
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On December 16 2011 17:32 ellirc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 16:39 diophan wrote:On December 16 2011 16:31 Bogeyman wrote:On December 16 2011 05:08 Xalorian wrote:
Do you see the irony in that?
They didn't lied and they had the right to do so, it was not against the rule. But doing it without telling anyone was seriously unprofessional.
Naniwa got punished, because he was unprofessional. But, what he did was not against the rule.
Weird, is in it? Yeah it's very ironic. So, GOM has: 1. Altered their part of an agreement. 2. Not told ANYONE involved about it. (edit: MLG, foreign community or Naniwa. They are the ones involved, I don't care if whatever Korean site knew about it or not) Until GOM delivers a sincere apology to MLG, the fans and even Naniwa who's been an unfortunate victim (despite his own actions of which he is of course responsible), I will not support GOM with so much as a dollar. I've paid for GSL season tickets before, and not buying tickets is my only weapon, our only weapon, that GOM really cares about. . So... GOM said in Korean at http://esports.gomtv.com/gsl/community/view.gom?msgid=23986 that there's no guaranteed GSL Code S spot, MLG announces in English there is. This is all GOM's fault and they're the ones being deceptive? Sorry buddy but you're obviously being biased because of the language you speak. Both had publicly released statements which apparently neither read. MLG and GOM are equally culpable, but I would say it's pretty clear to anyone who doesn't want to rage for the sake of raging that it wasn't intentional. Funny thing is none of this would have ever come to pass if Nani doesn't make a mockery out of the Blizzard Cup. It makes me very sad that people like you are refusing to support GOM because you read the English statements while there's are in Korean. The fuck? Are you kidding? Are we really expected to read stuff in korean now?
Well, supposedly all the Koreans at GOM were supposed to read all the foreign community websites and see everyone saying Naniwa had won a Code S spot. We didn't read their news, and they didn't read ours.
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On December 16 2011 17:28 gruff wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 17:06 TheSilverfox wrote:On December 16 2011 15:55 FishForThought wrote:Don't make it sound like this is far fetched and unprecedented. Even in real athletes, people get banned from 'violating spirit of fair play' 4. Ara Abrahamian – Sweden
...
Unlike many other athletes on the list, Abrahamian wasn’t found to be doing illegal things. He wasn’t using steroids to enhance his performance or breaking any other serious offense like most athletes on the list. At the 2008 Olympics in Beijing, Abrahamian was up against tough opponents. After the judges finalized their scores, Abrahamian only came in third. However, he and his coach both disputed the scores and claimed the judges were being corrupt and unjust. The two called for a review of the match but this was declined. Come time for the awards ceremony, Abrahamian attended, but when he was handed his bronze medal, he shook the hands of the others, stepped off the podium, and placed it on the wrestling mat. He then chose to leave without his medal. Because of the incident, the IOC held a conference and decided that Abrahamian needed to be suspended for violating the spirit of fair play. He and his coach were to be banned for 2 years, but this was overturned in 2009.
Source: http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-athletes-who-lost-their-olympic-medal.phpI am glad GOM is treating the players like real athletes and the game as a real sport. This is actually the best sport reference I've heard in this whole discussion. Thank you! Another interesting thing here is that Abrahamian is Swedish. In Sweden there was a lot of discussion about this and the Swedish Wrestling Organisation and Swedish Olympic Committé stood behind Abrahamian and basically called the whole decision corrupt - it was not only Abrahamian himself and his coach. On TV and in media when they talked about this nearly everyone supported Abrahamian and his decision. People were really angry at FILA and IOC, different online polls showed about 80-95% support for the fact that Abrahamian did the right thing by placing the medal on the ground. The more I think about it we have a lot of Swedish athletes that are very similar to Naniwa. I don't really see the analogy here? The ref made a horrible judgement in the game (corrupt or not) and Abrahamian did what he did in protest and considering his view of the wrestling organizasion I'm pretty sure he knew he might get punished for it. I don't think Naniwa had much though of him losing his code s invite or him doing it in some form of protest. He didn't care about that match and threw it.
Sorry if I was a bit unclear. I'm more talking about the culture, support and mindset - not the action itself. You are correct that the two things that happened is not the same thing and can't really be compared.
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On December 16 2011 17:14 Koshi wrote:
Naniwa got a free spot. Played disrespectful. Gom retaliated.
I am fine with it.
Naniwa acted wrong. Gom acted worse. This isn't a shit slinging competition, they shouldn't retaliate. Instead they should have put some rules in to place to prevent this from happening. Also proper tournament format would have helped too. But who am I kidding, only a professional organization would do that, instead of trying to get back at a player, so petty. Massive loss of respect for gom.
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On December 16 2011 17:35 Jackle wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 17:32 ellirc wrote:On December 16 2011 16:39 diophan wrote:On December 16 2011 16:31 Bogeyman wrote:On December 16 2011 05:08 Xalorian wrote:
Do you see the irony in that?
They didn't lied and they had the right to do so, it was not against the rule. But doing it without telling anyone was seriously unprofessional.
Naniwa got punished, because he was unprofessional. But, what he did was not against the rule.
Weird, is in it? Yeah it's very ironic. So, GOM has: 1. Altered their part of an agreement. 2. Not told ANYONE involved about it. (edit: MLG, foreign community or Naniwa. They are the ones involved, I don't care if whatever Korean site knew about it or not) Until GOM delivers a sincere apology to MLG, the fans and even Naniwa who's been an unfortunate victim (despite his own actions of which he is of course responsible), I will not support GOM with so much as a dollar. I've paid for GSL season tickets before, and not buying tickets is my only weapon, our only weapon, that GOM really cares about. . So... GOM said in Korean at http://esports.gomtv.com/gsl/community/view.gom?msgid=23986 that there's no guaranteed GSL Code S spot, MLG announces in English there is. This is all GOM's fault and they're the ones being deceptive? Sorry buddy but you're obviously being biased because of the language you speak. Both had publicly released statements which apparently neither read. MLG and GOM are equally culpable, but I would say it's pretty clear to anyone who doesn't want to rage for the sake of raging that it wasn't intentional. Funny thing is none of this would have ever come to pass if Nani doesn't make a mockery out of the Blizzard Cup. It makes me very sad that people like you are refusing to support GOM because you read the English statements while there's are in Korean. The fuck? Are you kidding? Are we really expected to read stuff in korean now? Well, supposedly all the Koreans at GOM were supposed to read all the foreign community websites and see everyone saying Naniwa had won a Code S spot. We didn't read their news, and they didn't read ours.
And that makes everything okay? Seriously... If GOM is care so much about us non-koreans they should make sure we can get the correct information. It's not like they don't have people who can translate.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
The internet never ceases to make me lose hope for humanity (well the part of humanity that uses the internet at least)
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on the gomtv website (and the mlg website) you can read (in english) that code S will be awarded in every mlg pro circuit in 2011.. Nani qualified for this.. its nice if the wrote something in korean only for a foreigner tournament.. so unprofessional..
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On December 16 2011 17:35 Jackle wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 17:32 ellirc wrote:On December 16 2011 16:39 diophan wrote:On December 16 2011 16:31 Bogeyman wrote:On December 16 2011 05:08 Xalorian wrote:
Do you see the irony in that?
They didn't lied and they had the right to do so, it was not against the rule. But doing it without telling anyone was seriously unprofessional.
Naniwa got punished, because he was unprofessional. But, what he did was not against the rule.
Weird, is in it? Yeah it's very ironic. So, GOM has: 1. Altered their part of an agreement. 2. Not told ANYONE involved about it. (edit: MLG, foreign community or Naniwa. They are the ones involved, I don't care if whatever Korean site knew about it or not) Until GOM delivers a sincere apology to MLG, the fans and even Naniwa who's been an unfortunate victim (despite his own actions of which he is of course responsible), I will not support GOM with so much as a dollar. I've paid for GSL season tickets before, and not buying tickets is my only weapon, our only weapon, that GOM really cares about. . So... GOM said in Korean at http://esports.gomtv.com/gsl/community/view.gom?msgid=23986 that there's no guaranteed GSL Code S spot, MLG announces in English there is. This is all GOM's fault and they're the ones being deceptive? Sorry buddy but you're obviously being biased because of the language you speak. Both had publicly released statements which apparently neither read. MLG and GOM are equally culpable, but I would say it's pretty clear to anyone who doesn't want to rage for the sake of raging that it wasn't intentional. Funny thing is none of this would have ever come to pass if Nani doesn't make a mockery out of the Blizzard Cup. It makes me very sad that people like you are refusing to support GOM because you read the English statements while there's are in Korean. The fuck? Are you kidding? Are we really expected to read stuff in korean now? Well, supposedly all the Koreans at GOM were supposed to read all the foreign community websites and see everyone saying Naniwa had won a Code S spot. We didn't read their news, and they didn't read ours.
If you change an aggrement with your business partner you should tell him directly and not post it in some forum.
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On December 16 2011 17:45 Uracil wrote:
If you change an aggrement with your business partner you should tell him directly and not post it in some forum.
On December 16 2011 17:42 ellirc wrote:
And that makes everything okay? Seriously... If GOM is care so much about us non-koreans they should make sure we can get the correct information. It's not like they don't have people who can translate.
I'm not saying that it's okay, I'm saying that both parties had changes to their format and only announced it on their personal forums. It's already been brought up time and time again, that MLG modified their end of the agreement by not directly inviting 4 players into the championship pool due to the change in format of Providence. MVP had to play through the open bracket. This is why in MLG's announcement they say it's fully within GOMTv's rights to do what they did because the end of 2012 was clearly a grey area when both leagues are trying to change up their tournaments format.
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On December 16 2011 17:32 ellirc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 16:39 diophan wrote:On December 16 2011 16:31 Bogeyman wrote:On December 16 2011 05:08 Xalorian wrote:
Do you see the irony in that?
They didn't lied and they had the right to do so, it was not against the rule. But doing it without telling anyone was seriously unprofessional.
Naniwa got punished, because he was unprofessional. But, what he did was not against the rule.
Weird, is in it? Yeah it's very ironic. So, GOM has: 1. Altered their part of an agreement. 2. Not told ANYONE involved about it. (edit: MLG, foreign community or Naniwa. They are the ones involved, I don't care if whatever Korean site knew about it or not) Until GOM delivers a sincere apology to MLG, the fans and even Naniwa who's been an unfortunate victim (despite his own actions of which he is of course responsible), I will not support GOM with so much as a dollar. I've paid for GSL season tickets before, and not buying tickets is my only weapon, our only weapon, that GOM really cares about. . So... GOM said in Korean at http://esports.gomtv.com/gsl/community/view.gom?msgid=23986 that there's no guaranteed GSL Code S spot, MLG announces in English there is. This is all GOM's fault and they're the ones being deceptive? Sorry buddy but you're obviously being biased because of the language you speak. Both had publicly released statements which apparently neither read. MLG and GOM are equally culpable, but I would say it's pretty clear to anyone who doesn't want to rage for the sake of raging that it wasn't intentional. Funny thing is none of this would have ever come to pass if Nani doesn't make a mockery out of the Blizzard Cup. It makes me very sad that people like you are refusing to support GOM because you read the English statements while there's are in Korean. The fuck? Are you kidding? Are we really expected to read stuff in korean now?
Lmao by that logic, GOM should have been reading all the foreign news and corrected MLG since they would have realized it was false info. God can unreasonable GOM supporters stop this please, it's just making us koreans look really dumb and biased
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dang, there's still drama about this?
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Guys, guys (and girls)...don't make an ass out of yourselves.
Of course we (the foreign community) are not expected to read Korean, and the Korean community isn't expected to read English. This is a matter of GOM not informing relevant parties, as posting a response to a question in a Korean forum (that is the link that has been referred to) is not good communication. An official announcement on the front page or something along those lines is acceptable, but to maintain proper professionalism you need to speak directly to the relevant parties, even more so when there is an obvious language barrier between the involved parties.
I don't see how there can be much confusion or contention about that.
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EPT
