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On December 16 2011 17:56 Jackle wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 17:45 Uracil wrote:
If you change an aggrement with your business partner you should tell him directly and not post it in some forum.
Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 17:42 ellirc wrote:
And that makes everything okay? Seriously... If GOM is care so much about us non-koreans they should make sure we can get the correct information. It's not like they don't have people who can translate. I'm not saying that it's okay, I'm saying that both parties had changes to their format and only announced it on their personal forums. It's already been brought up time and time again, that MLG modified their end of the agreement by not directly inviting 4 players into the championship pool due to the change in format of Providence. MVP had to play through the open bracket. This is why in MLG's announcement they say it's fully within GOMTv's rights to do what they did because the end of 2012 was clearly a grey area when both leagues are trying to change up their tournaments format.
I would argue that MLG didn't tell GOM about their Providence format changes. MLG payed for 4 Koreans based by their MLG ranking so i assume they had Gom informed. Ultimately we have a statement from MLG that Gom did not informed them. There isn't such a statement from Gom.
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On December 16 2011 18:00 moonmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 17:32 ellirc wrote:On December 16 2011 16:39 diophan wrote:On December 16 2011 16:31 Bogeyman wrote:On December 16 2011 05:08 Xalorian wrote:
Do you see the irony in that?
They didn't lied and they had the right to do so, it was not against the rule. But doing it without telling anyone was seriously unprofessional.
Naniwa got punished, because he was unprofessional. But, what he did was not against the rule.
Weird, is in it? Yeah it's very ironic. So, GOM has: 1. Altered their part of an agreement. 2. Not told ANYONE involved about it. (edit: MLG, foreign community or Naniwa. They are the ones involved, I don't care if whatever Korean site knew about it or not) Until GOM delivers a sincere apology to MLG, the fans and even Naniwa who's been an unfortunate victim (despite his own actions of which he is of course responsible), I will not support GOM with so much as a dollar. I've paid for GSL season tickets before, and not buying tickets is my only weapon, our only weapon, that GOM really cares about. . So... GOM said in Korean at http://esports.gomtv.com/gsl/community/view.gom?msgid=23986 that there's no guaranteed GSL Code S spot, MLG announces in English there is. This is all GOM's fault and they're the ones being deceptive? Sorry buddy but you're obviously being biased because of the language you speak. Both had publicly released statements which apparently neither read. MLG and GOM are equally culpable, but I would say it's pretty clear to anyone who doesn't want to rage for the sake of raging that it wasn't intentional. Funny thing is none of this would have ever come to pass if Nani doesn't make a mockery out of the Blizzard Cup. It makes me very sad that people like you are refusing to support GOM because you read the English statements while there's are in Korean. The fuck? Are you kidding? Are we really expected to read stuff in korean now? Lmao by that logic, GOM should have been reading all the foreign news and corrected MLG since they would have realized it was false info. God can unreasonable GOM supporters stop this please, it's just making us koreans look really dumb and biased
No, GOM should have told MLG they are changing their agreement...how hard is it to figure that out?!
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On December 16 2011 18:12 Uracil wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 17:56 Jackle wrote:On December 16 2011 17:45 Uracil wrote:
If you change an aggrement with your business partner you should tell him directly and not post it in some forum.
On December 16 2011 17:42 ellirc wrote:
And that makes everything okay? Seriously... If GOM is care so much about us non-koreans they should make sure we can get the correct information. It's not like they don't have people who can translate. I'm not saying that it's okay, I'm saying that both parties had changes to their format and only announced it on their personal forums. It's already been brought up time and time again, that MLG modified their end of the agreement by not directly inviting 4 players into the championship pool due to the change in format of Providence. MVP had to play through the open bracket. This is why in MLG's announcement they say it's fully within GOMTv's rights to do what they did because the end of 2012 was clearly a grey area when both leagues are trying to change up their tournaments format. I would argue that MLG didn't tell GOM about their Providence format changes. MLG payed for 4 Koreans based by their MLG ranking so i assume they had Gom informed. Ultimately we have a statement from MLG that Gom did not informed them. There isn't such a statement from Gom.
The format for Providence wasn't changed, was it? It was the standard national championship format, right?
Well either way, if MLG changed the format without informing GOM then that's not exactly an excuse for GOM to do the same. It would just mean they've both fucked up. So again, how did MLG change the format and where can I read about the change?
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i guess i should never trust in goms "honor" again.. lets just hope this is not as most koreans would have acted.. after all naniwas proberush is a way way smaller topic than this unprofessional behaviour by gom.. gom some more effort for foreigner please.. we would like to be informed, not being tricked by your rulechanges.. sorry if i'm mean, but i really feel tricked.. and imo i feel naniwa tricked out of codeS
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Both sides (GOM and MLG) made a big communication screw up.
Keep in mind that Diamond of ESV has been informed that there will be no code A spot for the last month of ESV Korean Weekly due to the GSL 2012 format change. It should have ring a alarm bell in everyone mind - MLG, players, people that they should get a confirmation about MLG Providence and the winner status in GOM run events.
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Really, we need an apology and explanation from both these organizations. GOM seems to have changed their agreement without informing any of the involved partners. MLG doesn't seem to care much that what they promised their competitors and proudly stated on their homepage simply wasn't true.
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On December 16 2011 18:14 Vardant wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 18:00 moonmeh wrote:On December 16 2011 17:32 ellirc wrote:On December 16 2011 16:39 diophan wrote:On December 16 2011 16:31 Bogeyman wrote:On December 16 2011 05:08 Xalorian wrote:
Do you see the irony in that?
They didn't lied and they had the right to do so, it was not against the rule. But doing it without telling anyone was seriously unprofessional.
Naniwa got punished, because he was unprofessional. But, what he did was not against the rule.
Weird, is in it? Yeah it's very ironic. So, GOM has: 1. Altered their part of an agreement. 2. Not told ANYONE involved about it. (edit: MLG, foreign community or Naniwa. They are the ones involved, I don't care if whatever Korean site knew about it or not) Until GOM delivers a sincere apology to MLG, the fans and even Naniwa who's been an unfortunate victim (despite his own actions of which he is of course responsible), I will not support GOM with so much as a dollar. I've paid for GSL season tickets before, and not buying tickets is my only weapon, our only weapon, that GOM really cares about. . So... GOM said in Korean at http://esports.gomtv.com/gsl/community/view.gom?msgid=23986 that there's no guaranteed GSL Code S spot, MLG announces in English there is. This is all GOM's fault and they're the ones being deceptive? Sorry buddy but you're obviously being biased because of the language you speak. Both had publicly released statements which apparently neither read. MLG and GOM are equally culpable, but I would say it's pretty clear to anyone who doesn't want to rage for the sake of raging that it wasn't intentional. Funny thing is none of this would have ever come to pass if Nani doesn't make a mockery out of the Blizzard Cup. It makes me very sad that people like you are refusing to support GOM because you read the English statements while there's are in Korean. The fuck? Are you kidding? Are we really expected to read stuff in korean now? Lmao by that logic, GOM should have been reading all the foreign news and corrected MLG since they would have realized it was false info. God can unreasonable GOM supporters stop this please, it's just making us koreans look really dumb and biased No, GOM should have told MLG they are changing their agreement...how hard is it to figure that out?!
I actually agree with you, I'm just mocking the logic behind the It makes me very sad that people like you are refusing to support GOM because you read the English statements while there's are in Korean. statement.
Whatever people say that this information to available to Koreans or not, it should be first priority for GOM to tell MLG. The fact they didn't is just unprofessional
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I'll be boycotting GOM over this.. completely unbelievable, was looking forward to naniwa in code s 
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On December 16 2011 17:24 Spaceneil8 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 17:20 hunts wrote:On December 16 2011 17:17 Stoffelhase wrote:the code S spot was part of the pricepool.. gom and mlg agreed on this, now gom changed it (without telling anyone), lol?! this really makes me sad.. i spent around 7 paid seasons with gom (not too much for them, but at least a lot of money for me), this will end now! i think mlg should talk gom to giving nani a code S spot at least next season.. he earned it and now got tricked out of it! im really angry and sad it was never part of the prize pool, stop thinking that. The prize was a spot in the blizzardcup, which they gave nani like they said they would. The code S spot was not part of the providence prize pool It was but GOM changed it with out telling anyone. When the exchange program was first announced it was part of it, and it was part of it until GOM changed it.
The decision was made before MLG providence. Gom announced about Blizzard Cup two months ago, then announced new plan for 2012 GSL which clearly state that two International seeds will be given to players. GOM replaced MLG direct seed used in 2011 GSL with international seed, becuase they don't want foreign players from just MLG to be invited to Code S. They wanted any foreign players who are capable to compete in GSL to be invited. MLG is aware of this, and they also knew Top players will still be granted code S for 2011 GSL!! MLG never mentioned whether it will take effect in 2012 GSL though 2012 GSL has completely different format from previous one. What a great move by MLG!
"The original agreement (announced probably in May) between MLG and GSL through the League Exchange Program (LXP) stated that the highest ranked player in the Top 3 from each MLG Pro Circuit event in 2011, including Providence, who did not already have Code S status would be granted Code S status at GSL for one season."
- How can Code S be granted for one season if the tournament have already ended in November.
"With the recently announced changes to the 2012 GSL season, GSL switched the MLG Providence Code S invite to two spots at the GSL Blizzard Cup. Naniwa was awarded one of these spots. Unfortunately, the change was made without notification to MLG, but it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement."
- Because a rule that is only valid for 2011 GSL TOUR would not take effect in another tournament. Since the tournament has already ended, Gom announced that Blizzard Cup seed will be granted instead to top players in MLG. Unfortunately ,MLG interpreted the rule arbitrarily and believed that MLG had the right to grant top player Code S seed until GSL extincts from eSports.
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On December 16 2011 17:40 Kryptic.610 wrote:Naniwa acted wrong. Gom acted worse. This isn't a shit slinging competition, they shouldn't retaliate.
GOM 'retaliated' in the same way that flipping off your boss and getting fired as a consequence is 'retaliation'. This is the real world, actions have consequences.
I think GOM has handled this whole thing poorly, but not for the reason everyone else is citing -- they run a sports league and have absolute and final say over disciplinary actions in the league. Just say that Naniwa would have had a spot (whether there was a misunderstanding or not), that he no longer has one due to his actions in the Blizzard Cup, and it really would have saved a lot of this drama.
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I knew Gom was twisting and turning their words. Naniwa seriously needs to be compensated for his Code S spot which he already won. Without a doubt its more important to him than the prize money. You can't exactly take away something you already gave away.
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The announcement of GOM is like the stupidest move they could've made. I'm pretty sure they were actually legally allowed to throw Nani out from Code S for his actions(since their rules are so vague, which Gom really needs to fix, since it depends so much on the interpret what is allowed and what isn't) even though I'd still say it was a dickmove. Announcing that they aren't fulfilling their part of a deal after the other party has already fulfilled theirs... I very much doubt it's legal in Korea and I'd be shocked if it was legal in any western country(without some kind of breach).
I'm really dissappointed with GOM in this matter, it kind of seems like they are just taking revenge on Naniwa for his thumbs down.
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On December 16 2011 19:01 Skyreaper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 17:24 Spaceneil8 wrote:On December 16 2011 17:20 hunts wrote:On December 16 2011 17:17 Stoffelhase wrote:the code S spot was part of the pricepool.. gom and mlg agreed on this, now gom changed it (without telling anyone), lol?! this really makes me sad.. i spent around 7 paid seasons with gom (not too much for them, but at least a lot of money for me), this will end now! i think mlg should talk gom to giving nani a code S spot at least next season.. he earned it and now got tricked out of it! im really angry and sad it was never part of the prize pool, stop thinking that. The prize was a spot in the blizzardcup, which they gave nani like they said they would. The code S spot was not part of the providence prize pool It was but GOM changed it with out telling anyone. When the exchange program was first announced it was part of it, and it was part of it until GOM changed it. The decision was made before MLG providence. Gom announced about Blizzard Cup two months ago, then announced new plan for 2012 GSL which clearly state that two International seeds will be given to players. GOM replaced MLG direct seed used in 2011 GSL with international seed, becuase they don't want foreign players from just MLG to be invited to Code S. They wanted any foreign players who are capable to compete in GSL to be invited. MLG is aware of this, and they also knew Top players will still be granted code S for 2011 GSL!! MLG never mentioned whether it will take effect in 2012 GSL though 2012 GSL has completely different format from previous one. What a great move by MLG! "The original agreement (announced probably in May) between MLG and GSL through the League Exchange Program (LXP) stated that the highest ranked player in the Top 3 from each MLG Pro Circuit event in 2011, including Providence, who did not already have Code S status would be granted Code S status at GSL for one season." - How can Code S be granted for one season if the tournament have already ended in November."With the recently announced changes to the 2012 GSL season, GSL switched the MLG Providence Code S invite to two spots at the GSL Blizzard Cup. Naniwa was awarded one of these spots. Unfortunately, the change was made without notification to MLG, but it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement." - Because a rule that is only valid for 2011 GSL TOUR would not take effect in another tournament. Since the tournament has already ended, Gom announced that Blizzard Cup seed will be granted instead to top players in MLG. Unfortunately ,MLG interpreted the rule arbitrarily and believed that MLG had the right to grant top player Code S seed until GSL extincts from eSports.
A rather confusing read, but in the original GOM release about Blizzard Cup, there is nothing to indicate that it replaces the code-S seed from Providence.
From MLGs statement, it is clear that in their original agreement, Providence would grant a code-S spot. I don't see why the change to 2012 would have any impact on this, and apparently neither did MLG. It should be obvious at the time of the initial agreement, that the code-S spot from Providence would necessarily have to be granted in 2012.
In GOMs announcement of the 2012 system with the graphic from the homepage, there was no reason to believe that one of the "invite spots" couldn't and wouldn't be a spot from MLG.
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On December 16 2011 19:11 Zarahtra wrote:
The announcement of GOM is like the stupidest move they could've made. I'm pretty sure they were actually legally allowed to throw Nani out from Code S for his actions(since their rules are so vague, which Gom really needs to fix, since it depends so much on the interpret what is allowed and what isn't) even though I'd still say it was a dickmove. Announcing that they aren't fulfilling their part of a deal after the other party has already fulfilled theirs... I'm really dissappointed with GOM in this matter, it kind of seems like they are just taking revenge on Naniwa for his thumbs down.
Gom never should have invited him from first place. He already has a record of being kicked out of tournament for a few times. The only reason I can think of Gom having considered NaNiwa to be invited in Code S GSL is because he's a foreign player, not because he has the skill to compete among Code S GSL player. He doesn't even have the skill to compete against Code A player. Gom knows that it's hard for most foreign starcraft 2 player to get through GSL prelim, that's why Gom decides to make two sponsor seed for Code S, and another two seed for foreign Up/Down match. This will at least keep foreign players to participate in GSL even if no foreign players are to get through GSL prelim.
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On December 16 2011 19:26 Skyreaper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 19:11 Zarahtra wrote:
The announcement of GOM is like the stupidest move they could've made. I'm pretty sure they were actually legally allowed to throw Nani out from Code S for his actions(since their rules are so vague, which Gom really needs to fix, since it depends so much on the interpret what is allowed and what isn't) even though I'd still say it was a dickmove. Announcing that they aren't fulfilling their part of a deal after the other party has already fulfilled theirs... I'm really dissappointed with GOM in this matter, it kind of seems like they are just taking revenge on Naniwa for his thumbs down. Gom never should have invited him from first place. He already has a record of being kicked out of tournament for a few times. The only reason I can think of Gom having considered NaNiwa to be invited in Code S GSL is because he's a foreign player, not because he has the skill to compete among Code S GSL player. He doesn't even have the skill to compete against Code A player. Gom knows that it's hard for most foreign starcraft 2 player to get through GSL prelim, that's why Gom decides to make two sponsor seed for Code S, and another two seed for foreign Up/Down match. This will at least keep foreign players to participate in GSL even if no foreign players are to get through GSL prelim.
Dude, Naniwa is THE foreign protoss next to HuK >_> Saying he's lacking skill is way way wrong.
The 3 games he lost were extremely close! Including a PvZ on Bel'shier!
It's still a shitty move by GOM, this whole situation could have been handled ten times better easily. :/
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Basically, The Agreed Terms between MLG and GOM is only for 2011, 2011 ONLY. GOM wanted to do something different for 2012; hence MLG can only follow whatever GOM wants to do, which means Naniwa IS NOT a Code S for 2012, at all.
The Code S international seeds of 2012 are IdrA and Sen.
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On December 16 2011 19:02 sekritzzz wrote:
I knew Gom was twisting and turning their words. Naniwa seriously needs to be compensated for his Code S spot which he already won. Without a doubt its more important to him than the prize money. You can't exactly take away something you already gave away.
yes you can, GOM just did. If you don't like it, don't play in Korean's league.
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On December 16 2011 19:35 twndomn wrote:
Basically, The Agreed Terms between MLG and GOM is only for 2011, 2011 ONLY. GOM wanted to do something different for 2012; hence MLG can only follow whatever GOM wants to do, which means Naniwa IS NOT a Code S for 2012, at all.
The Code S international seeds of 2012 are IdrA and Sen.
Yes, that's what has happened. The point of the MLG statement here is that they had understood Providence would include a Code S spot, which Naniwa would have earned, and that they didn't know Gom had changed their stance until this incident happened.
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On December 16 2011 19:34 tnud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 19:26 Skyreaper wrote:On December 16 2011 19:11 Zarahtra wrote:
The announcement of GOM is like the stupidest move they could've made. I'm pretty sure they were actually legally allowed to throw Nani out from Code S for his actions(since their rules are so vague, which Gom really needs to fix, since it depends so much on the interpret what is allowed and what isn't) even though I'd still say it was a dickmove. Announcing that they aren't fulfilling their part of a deal after the other party has already fulfilled theirs... I'm really dissappointed with GOM in this matter, it kind of seems like they are just taking revenge on Naniwa for his thumbs down. Gom never should have invited him from first place. He already has a record of being kicked out of tournament for a few times. The only reason I can think of Gom having considered NaNiwa to be invited in Code S GSL is because he's a foreign player, not because he has the skill to compete among Code S GSL player. He doesn't even have the skill to compete against Code A player. Gom knows that it's hard for most foreign starcraft 2 player to get through GSL prelim, that's why Gom decides to make two sponsor seed for Code S, and another two seed for foreign Up/Down match. This will at least keep foreign players to participate in GSL even if no foreign players are to get through GSL prelim. Dude, Naniwa is THE foreign protoss next to HuK >_> Saying he's lacking skill is way way wrong. The 3 games he lost were extremely close! Including a PvZ on Bel'shier! It's still a shitty move by GOM, this whole situation could have been handled ten times better easily. :/
I see a huge gap between NaNiwa and Huk in their skill. Do you still believe that he really has the skill to compete in GSL? NaNiwa is way far next to HuK.
NaNiwa's GSL record : http://www.gomtv.net/records/playerInfo.gom?option=view&playerid=23956
Huk's GSL record :http://www.gomtv.net/records/playerInfo.gom?option=view&playerid=21137
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On December 16 2011 19:42 dormer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 19:35 twndomn wrote:
Basically, The Agreed Terms between MLG and GOM is only for 2011, 2011 ONLY. GOM wanted to do something different for 2012; hence MLG can only follow whatever GOM wants to do, which means Naniwa IS NOT a Code S for 2012, at all.
The Code S international seeds of 2012 are IdrA and Sen. Yes, that's what has happened. The point of the MLG statement here is that they had understood Providence would include a Code S spot, which Naniwa would have earned, and that they didn't know Gom had changed their stance until this incident happened.
Also, as stated above, at the time of the initial agreement with MLG, it must/should have been clear to GOM that, due to the dates, the code S spot from Providence would necessarily have to be granted in 2012. It certainly seems to be MLGs impression.
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EPT
