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On December 16 2011 19:52 Skyreaper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 19:34 tnud wrote:On December 16 2011 19:26 Skyreaper wrote:On December 16 2011 19:11 Zarahtra wrote:
The announcement of GOM is like the stupidest move they could've made. I'm pretty sure they were actually legally allowed to throw Nani out from Code S for his actions(since their rules are so vague, which Gom really needs to fix, since it depends so much on the interpret what is allowed and what isn't) even though I'd still say it was a dickmove. Announcing that they aren't fulfilling their part of a deal after the other party has already fulfilled theirs... I'm really dissappointed with GOM in this matter, it kind of seems like they are just taking revenge on Naniwa for his thumbs down. Gom never should have invited him from first place. He already has a record of being kicked out of tournament for a few times. The only reason I can think of Gom having considered NaNiwa to be invited in Code S GSL is because he's a foreign player, not because he has the skill to compete among Code S GSL player. He doesn't even have the skill to compete against Code A player. Gom knows that it's hard for most foreign starcraft 2 player to get through GSL prelim, that's why Gom decides to make two sponsor seed for Code S, and another two seed for foreign Up/Down match. This will at least keep foreign players to participate in GSL even if no foreign players are to get through GSL prelim. Dude, Naniwa is THE foreign protoss next to HuK >_> Saying he's lacking skill is way way wrong. The 3 games he lost were extremely close! Including a PvZ on Bel'shier! It's still a shitty move by GOM, this whole situation could have been handled ten times better easily. :/ I see a huge gap between NaNiwa and Huk in their skill. Do you still believe that he really has the skill to compete in GSL? NaNiwa is way far next to HuK. NaNiwa's GSL record : http://www.gomtv.net/records/playerInfo.gom?option=view&playerid=23956Huk's GSL record : http://www.gomtv.net/records/playerInfo.go
How do you think Naniwa did at Providence?
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On December 16 2011 19:26 Skyreaper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 19:11 Zarahtra wrote:
The announcement of GOM is like the stupidest move they could've made. I'm pretty sure they were actually legally allowed to throw Nani out from Code S for his actions(since their rules are so vague, which Gom really needs to fix, since it depends so much on the interpret what is allowed and what isn't) even though I'd still say it was a dickmove. Announcing that they aren't fulfilling their part of a deal after the other party has already fulfilled theirs... I'm really dissappointed with GOM in this matter, it kind of seems like they are just taking revenge on Naniwa for his thumbs down. Gom never should have invited him from first place. He already has a record of being kicked out of tournament for a few times. The only reason I can think of Gom having considered NaNiwa to be invited in Code S GSL is because he's a foreign player, not because he has the skill to compete among Code S GSL player. He doesn't even have the skill to compete against Code A player. Gom knows that it's hard for most foreign starcraft 2 player to get through GSL prelim, that's why Gom decides to make two sponsor seed for Code S, and another two seed for foreign Up/Down match. This will at least keep foreign players to participate in GSL even if no foreign players are to get through GSL prelim.
I'm sure you just happened to miss the part when NaNiWa beat the two best GSL Code S titans (NesTea and Mvp) back-to-back to win the MLG Blizzard Tournament, and then went on to beat NesTea AGAIN.
He has what it takes to compete in Code S.
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On December 16 2011 19:54 m0ck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 19:52 Skyreaper wrote:On December 16 2011 19:34 tnud wrote:On December 16 2011 19:26 Skyreaper wrote:On December 16 2011 19:11 Zarahtra wrote:
The announcement of GOM is like the stupidest move they could've made. I'm pretty sure they were actually legally allowed to throw Nani out from Code S for his actions(since their rules are so vague, which Gom really needs to fix, since it depends so much on the interpret what is allowed and what isn't) even though I'd still say it was a dickmove. Announcing that they aren't fulfilling their part of a deal after the other party has already fulfilled theirs... I'm really dissappointed with GOM in this matter, it kind of seems like they are just taking revenge on Naniwa for his thumbs down. Gom never should have invited him from first place. He already has a record of being kicked out of tournament for a few times. The only reason I can think of Gom having considered NaNiwa to be invited in Code S GSL is because he's a foreign player, not because he has the skill to compete among Code S GSL player. He doesn't even have the skill to compete against Code A player. Gom knows that it's hard for most foreign starcraft 2 player to get through GSL prelim, that's why Gom decides to make two sponsor seed for Code S, and another two seed for foreign Up/Down match. This will at least keep foreign players to participate in GSL even if no foreign players are to get through GSL prelim. Dude, Naniwa is THE foreign protoss next to HuK >_> Saying he's lacking skill is way way wrong. The 3 games he lost were extremely close! Including a PvZ on Bel'shier! It's still a shitty move by GOM, this whole situation could have been handled ten times better easily. :/ I see a huge gap between NaNiwa and Huk in their skill. Do you still believe that he really has the skill to compete in GSL? NaNiwa is way far next to HuK. NaNiwa's GSL record : http://www.gomtv.net/records/playerInfo.gom?option=view&playerid=23956Huk's GSL record : http://www.gomtv.net/records/playerInfo.go How do you think Naniwa did at Providence?
DRG has 60% overall win ratio when it comes to GSL, while his win ratio is over 80% in GSTL.
NaNiwa's skill in MLG may be great, but it seems his skill in GSL isn't.
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On December 16 2011 19:38 twndomn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 19:02 sekritzzz wrote:
I knew Gom was twisting and turning their words. Naniwa seriously needs to be compensated for his Code S spot which he already won. Without a doubt its more important to him than the prize money. You can't exactly take away something you already gave away. yes you can, GOM just did. If you don't like it, don't play in Korean's league.
great argument. please, you and skyreaper need to think before you post, back your opinions up with something more than "i dont like naniwa, i like gom"
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On December 16 2011 20:01 Skyreaper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 19:54 m0ck wrote:On December 16 2011 19:52 Skyreaper wrote:On December 16 2011 19:34 tnud wrote:On December 16 2011 19:26 Skyreaper wrote:On December 16 2011 19:11 Zarahtra wrote:
The announcement of GOM is like the stupidest move they could've made. I'm pretty sure they were actually legally allowed to throw Nani out from Code S for his actions(since their rules are so vague, which Gom really needs to fix, since it depends so much on the interpret what is allowed and what isn't) even though I'd still say it was a dickmove. Announcing that they aren't fulfilling their part of a deal after the other party has already fulfilled theirs... I'm really dissappointed with GOM in this matter, it kind of seems like they are just taking revenge on Naniwa for his thumbs down. Gom never should have invited him from first place. He already has a record of being kicked out of tournament for a few times. The only reason I can think of Gom having considered NaNiwa to be invited in Code S GSL is because he's a foreign player, not because he has the skill to compete among Code S GSL player. He doesn't even have the skill to compete against Code A player. Gom knows that it's hard for most foreign starcraft 2 player to get through GSL prelim, that's why Gom decides to make two sponsor seed for Code S, and another two seed for foreign Up/Down match. This will at least keep foreign players to participate in GSL even if no foreign players are to get through GSL prelim. Dude, Naniwa is THE foreign protoss next to HuK >_> Saying he's lacking skill is way way wrong. The 3 games he lost were extremely close! Including a PvZ on Bel'shier! It's still a shitty move by GOM, this whole situation could have been handled ten times better easily. :/ I see a huge gap between NaNiwa and Huk in their skill. Do you still believe that he really has the skill to compete in GSL? NaNiwa is way far next to HuK. NaNiwa's GSL record : http://www.gomtv.net/records/playerInfo.gom?option=view&playerid=23956Huk's GSL record : http://www.gomtv.net/records/playerInfo.go How do you think Naniwa did at Providence? DRG has 60% overall win ratio when it comes to GSL, while his win ratio is over 80% in GSTL. NaNiwa's skill in MLG may be great, but it seems his skill in GSL isn't.
That's quite an impressive base data set you are deriving from. *highfivestatistics*
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On December 16 2011 19:35 twndomn wrote:
Basically, The Agreed Terms between MLG and GOM is only for 2011, 2011 ONLY. GOM wanted to do something different for 2012; hence MLG can only follow whatever GOM wants to do, which means Naniwa IS NOT a Code S for 2012, at all.
The Code S international seeds of 2012 are IdrA and Sen.
lol? nani earned his spot in 2011, yes.. so did all the code s players too (like jjakji for being in the top 8last code s season).. now you say nanis spot has no right to be carried into the next season but all the other code s members have the right to be carried on? cant see any logic in this..
both websites, gom and mlg, clearly said that every mlg in 2011 a code s spot will be given away.. and now, more or less secretly, gsl changed this..
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blame game in this thread is epic. it's highly entertaining. what's funny is that neither MLG nor GOM cares; they had already moved on.
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I'm really disappointed MLG are bending over to GOM like this. It really is bad business.
I'm actually on the side of GOM on the Naniwa situation.
But this is just ridiculous. The Koreans say respect is very important, but I don't see ANY being shown to either the foreign community or MLG.
Since Chae came out with his comments on the Naniwa situation I've felt this way, instead of claiming some complete and utter bullshit (sorry for the language, but it's true) about the rules being changed regarding the code S seed; he should have just said that Naniwa was seeded in code S but lost it because of his unprecedented actions. This whole situation really just stinks, and while I don't feel sorry for Naniwa, or GOM, I feel sorry for myself as a fan of watching and supporting/paying for a fair and balanced competition. (I have paid for both an MLG gold subscription and all GSL's.)
This whole Naniwa-gate drama is a real black spot for e-sports in my book, it's far from killing it, but it has really brought down my opinion on the professionalism of all involved. The end result is the same regardless of the justifications, I guess, so we can all just move on. I just hope all parties have learned from this situation and there will be safe-guards in place from anything like it happening again.
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On December 16 2011 20:18 jellyjello wrote:
blame game in this thread is epic. it's highly entertaining. what's funny is that neither MLG nor GOM cares; they had already moved on.
Nor does Naniwa... remember, he forfeited playing in the GSL for now.
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Not to be "racist", but this is such typical Korean business strategy.
I've seen this over and over and over....
North Korea vs South Korea vs Rest of the World
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 16 2011 19:38 twndomn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 19:02 sekritzzz wrote:
I knew Gom was twisting and turning their words. Naniwa seriously needs to be compensated for his Code S spot which he already won. Without a doubt its more important to him than the prize money. You can't exactly take away something you already gave away. yes you can, GOM just did. If you don't like it, don't play in Korean's league.
Yea... nice logic of fairness and equity. Your house just got robbed. If you don't like it, don't live in this neighborhood.
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On December 16 2011 20:31 sekritzzz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 19:38 twndomn wrote:On December 16 2011 19:02 sekritzzz wrote:
I knew Gom was twisting and turning their words. Naniwa seriously needs to be compensated for his Code S spot which he already won. Without a doubt its more important to him than the prize money. You can't exactly take away something you already gave away. yes you can, GOM just did. If you don't like it, don't play in Korean's league. Yea... nice logic of fairness and equity. Your house just got robbed. If you don't like it, don't live in this neighborhood.
That is actually a great analogy. Although I disagree with your original point that he needs to be compensated, we just need to stop being lied to and taken for idiots, or to follow your analogy: GOM need to say "we took property from your house because you broke the law in this area." rather than saying "we didn't take anything, it wasn't yours, nothing to see here, move along."
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On December 16 2011 05:08 darkcloud8282 wrote:
Foreigners bending over to Korea, sounds similar to NASL. They know people want to watch Koreans play and with that card in their hand, they can get away with things as they please.
Stop being so butthurt. The GSL isn't perfect but at least GOM tries. You have no idea how it was in BW under KeSPA. And it's not foreigners vs Koreans here, it's just GSL execs. Why does everyone have to make this into a race issue?
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On December 16 2011 20:18 jellyjello wrote:
blame game in this thread is epic. it's highly entertaining. what's funny is that neither MLG nor GOM cares; they had already moved on.
you really think that GOM doesnt care that half the international community think they have acted in a stupid way?
they wont give naniwa his code s-spot back, they acted in affect and to stand up and say "we were wrong, sorry" now is indeed impossible, but i find it highly unlikely they will act in this manner again.
i would even say it is unlikely gom will keep having meaningless games in their tournaments, in that way naniwa may have done a e-sports a great favor
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Buying another Christmas present. Sorry GOM, but you tried to pull a fast one on me!
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On December 16 2011 20:36 Soma.bokforlag wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 20:18 jellyjello wrote:
blame game in this thread is epic. it's highly entertaining. what's funny is that neither MLG nor GOM cares; they had already moved on. you really think that GOM doesnt care that half the international community think they have acted in a stupid way? they wont give naniwa his code s-spot back, they acted in affect and to stand up and say "we were wrong, sorry" now is indeed impossible, but i find it highly unlikely they will act in this manner again. i would even say it is unlikely gom will keep having meaningless games in their tournaments, in that way naniwa may have done a e-sports a great favor
But that's not the point. This issue although the majority don't understand, is no longer about Naniwa or meaningless games.
It is that GOM can change the rules of a player being given a GSL seed, without notifying the player, the player's team, the organization that was promoting the prize of the GSL seed, or most importantly the community.
GOM have made no attempt to admit what they have done there was horribly wrong. What if some other guy thinks he is going to Korea to play in the GSL, only to have his seed taken away because GOM had changed their rules regarding what tournament he received a seed for?
Judging by this incident, MLG wont care, the player wont care, the team wont care and the (majority of the) community wont care.
Of course the situation in this case is slightly different due to Naniwa's transgressions, but according to GOM he didn't even have a code S seed to begin with!!! It's pure madness.
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Well, I think that when we're deceived and promises are broken, and there's no acknowledgement or apparent regret over what has happened, our way of fighting back is to bring attention to the subject and to shame the people who did it. It hurts their business, and if the voices are loud enough, they'll have to answer to their sponsors as well. There's no reason to feel powerless. We aren't.
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On December 16 2011 15:45 David451 wrote:
I could take the side of Naniwa, who spit in the face of GOM/fans/sportsmanship/esports or I could take the side of GOM who stood up for fans/esports/sportsmanship.
Easy choice. I really hate Naniwa for what he did. If Naniwa had an ounce of respect for eSports intead of himself he would come into threads like this on TL and reddit and defend GOM and stand by his apology. But he doesn't really believe in anything except himself and is relishing the controversy.
Also, Sundance is an idiot. By issuing such a wet napkin statement, he guaranteed to fan the flames of this controversy. Maybe he thinks it's great for eSports, that remains to be seen.
Whats good for everyone in ESPORTS is the TRUTH, yea the truth can you handle it? haha
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On December 16 2011 19:01 Skyreaper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 17:24 Spaceneil8 wrote:On December 16 2011 17:20 hunts wrote:On December 16 2011 17:17 Stoffelhase wrote:the code S spot was part of the pricepool.. gom and mlg agreed on this, now gom changed it (without telling anyone), lol?! this really makes me sad.. i spent around 7 paid seasons with gom (not too much for them, but at least a lot of money for me), this will end now! i think mlg should talk gom to giving nani a code S spot at least next season.. he earned it and now got tricked out of it! im really angry and sad  it was never part of the prize pool, stop thinking that. The prize was a spot in the blizzardcup, which they gave nani like they said they would. The code S spot was not part of the providence prize pool It was but GOM changed it with out telling anyone. When the exchange program was first announced it was part of it, and it was part of it until GOM changed it. The decision was made before MLG providence. Gom announced about Blizzard Cup two months ago, then announced new plan for 2012 GSL which clearly state that two International seeds will be given to players. GOM replaced MLG direct seed used in 2011 GSL with international seed, becuase they don't want foreign players from just MLG to be invited to Code S. They wanted any foreign players who are capable to compete in GSL to be invited. MLG is aware of this, and they also knew Top players will still be granted code S for 2011 GSL!! MLG never mentioned whether it will take effect in 2012 GSL though 2012 GSL has completely different format from previous one. What a great move by MLG! "The original agreement (announced probably in May) between MLG and GSL through the League Exchange Program (LXP) stated that the highest ranked player in the Top 3 from each MLG Pro Circuit event in 2011, including Providence, who did not already have Code S status would be granted Code S status at GSL for one season." - How can Code S be granted for one season if the tournament have already ended in November."With the recently announced changes to the 2012 GSL season, GSL switched the MLG Providence Code S invite to two spots at the GSL Blizzard Cup. Naniwa was awarded one of these spots. Unfortunately, the change was made without notification to MLG, but it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement." - Because a rule that is only valid for 2011 GSL TOUR would not take effect in another tournament. Since the tournament has already ended, Gom announced that Blizzard Cup seed will be granted instead to top players in MLG. Unfortunately ,MLG interpreted the rule arbitrarily and believed that MLG had the right to grant top player Code S seed until GSL extincts from eSports.
A quick hypothetical: what if two Code S players had gotten to the finals at MLG Providence and a progamer without Code S came in third? This is significant because the invitational format was the top two seeds from MLG Providence, but now they also say one of these was a Code S spot where previously it was not. GOM is pulling a bait and switch in retrospect based on the convenience that Naniwa was not previously in Code S.
Regardless of whether or not Naniwa's punishment was justified, GOM has proven that they are willing to change a format retroactively if it suits them and I'm not alright with this because it undermines everything regarding tournament regulation.
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lol do you think GSL would do the same for MLG if the position switched? This is kinda like when your kid plays with your boss's kid and your kid didn't want to pray before eating because he's not christian and your boss tells ur kid to GTFO. The dad doesn't even back he kid up because hes a bitch and acknowledges his kid was in the wrong and still invite his boss's kid over. except there's no boss just the koreans and the dickless foreign community bowing down to w/e the koreans say. Call it racism but I call it having some pride, The koreans take so much pride in being korean so let us take some pride as the foriegn community.
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EPT
