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On December 15 2011 08:51 oxxo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 08:47 Crisco wrote:On December 15 2011 08:41 strongandbig wrote:
Gom really making it clear here that when Korean and western cultural standards and expectations disagree, they will choose the Korean side. I guess we should have expected that. But all of that stuff about honor and codes of conduct are completely alien to me. Professional athletes are some of the most spoiled and dishonorable people in the world. We watch them because of their skill, not because they want to please us.
Oh, also it sounds like what I've been saying for a while is true - gom just unilaterally canceled the mlg exchange program. I hope mlg shows an equal leek of "respect" to the gsl and stops inviting Koreans straight I to group play. Or at least stops letting directly invited Koreans earn rank points without playing through the open racket like everyone else. Well, isnt it obvious that in cultural standards a Korean-hosted tournament in Korea will follow Korean standards? Besides, korean sense of professionalism has been for the most part, a good thing. If you watch them for the skill, then you should be mad at Naniwa for not displaying it. He just kinda lost his spot more than never being given it, I guess. This isn't a matter of Korean vs Western culture. This is simply a matter of professionalism. I'd venture a guess that the people up in arms about this have never had a 'real' job before.
I agree with this. I feel like gom is willing to lose a few viewers to uphold the integrity of their tournament. I can really respect that. When you host the most prestigious tournament in the world with the highest level of skill, you can't just let players shit all over it. I feel like gom is trying to appease the masses too much. They should have just said, this is unacceptable behavior for our tournament and we have zero tolerance for it and that is why Naniwa is getting this punishment. Hopefully players will look at this silly incident in the future and this won't happen again.
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On December 15 2011 08:54 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 08:50 mtn wrote:On December 15 2011 08:47 dAPhREAk wrote:On December 15 2011 08:45 NipponBanzai wrote:On December 15 2011 08:41 dAPhREAk wrote:i think he meant an announcement that naniwa specifically had received code s. not a general announcement of how the system would work. there is ambiguity whether the general announcement was intended to continue in 2012 and if it was intended to continue if GOM changed its system. this, i am hoping for a statement from MLG on. ESV TV lost their code A seed when the format changed. So I'm guessing that MLG lost their seeds too? hell if i know. thats why i say wait for a response from mlg. They had only partnership for 2011. It was already posted. They only have a partnership for MLG 2011. GomTV never stated that their part would stop after newyear.
and they shouldnt have to.
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On December 15 2011 08:50 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 08:47 Chill wrote:On December 15 2011 08:43 MiXyass wrote:On December 15 2011 08:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On December 15 2011 08:33 TedJustice wrote:
Some people don't seem to understand something.
Earning a Code S seed is not a "prize" or a "right".
It's a privilege. Whether they're lying about the providence seed or not, it's entirely within their right to remove him from the tournament despite his seed.
It's not revoking a prize. The prize was him having the privilege of a code S seed, and he blew it. The privilege has been revoked.
And of course, that's all assuming they're lying that his code S seed was meant for the Blizzard cup, which I doubt.
They just never properly communicated that the Blizzard cup would count as "code S" for the purpose of providence's MLG seeds. But I don't doubt that was their intention all along. i guess receiving the prize money is a privilege as well, which they can revoke willy-nilly. give me a break. you're wrong prize money is one of the terms in the legally bounding contract between 2 parties naniwa did his part of the contract and if gomtv failed to give him the prize money, then they would be committing a felony a code s seed is also one of the terms but of a contract that has NOT YET been executed and not this contract GOMtv wasn't very satisfied with the results of a previous contract that happened betweem them and naniwa (blizzcup) and thus have voided a contract which was going to happen but never did What contract? You think everyone who enters MLG signs a legally binding contract? Come on. well, this guy is an idiot, but you don't need to sign a "legally binding contract" to create a legally binding contract. they offered to give him prize money / code s (although there is a dispute about that) if he won. by winning (second), he accepted and completed the terms of the contract (i.e., it was fully performed). he was legally entitled to what they promised on a contract theory.
yes but gom had the right to terminate the current contractual relationship due to the wilfull misconduct of naniwas part.
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On December 15 2011 08:19 Paladia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:33 GOMTV wrote:It seems like a lot of people have been under the impression that NaNiWa has received a Code S seed for taking 2nd place at MLG Providence. The truth however is that NaNiWa has received the right to compete in the Blizzard Cup for his 2nd place achievement at MLG Providence. Gom, why are you making this up? 1. Why were the two seeds called "INTERNATIONAL SEED" and the other one "MLG PROVIDENCE CODE S SEED" on your official website (which you in stealth changed today)? 2. Why did your own twitter comment say that you revoked his Code S seed (which you also, deleted today)? 3. Why was it announced on your official partners website that Naniwa has .. earned a seat in Code S? 4. And why does it say on your official website when you announced the partner program still (not had time to change that one yet, had you?) say that: At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.What you are doing right now is much much worse than what Naniwa could ever do or any player has ever done in the history of Starcraft 2. You are falsely removing the prize of a tournament several months after the tournament has happened and trying to delete all evidence of it. This is worse than those tournaments who don't pay the prize money, as at least they acknowledge the fact that there is a prize. I really expected that your so called "honor" would be more than this. Removing one of the major prizes of a tournament, lying, deleting threads, in secret altering your own statements, I think all GomTV has built up was just thrown down the drain and I honestly wish that no player would ever have anything more to do with you. I don't see how you dare talk about "honor" or professionalism.
I'm just going to quote this to make sure it doesn't get lost in all the mess. Something seems to be really weird
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naniwa admits he was wrong (you fans need to stop defending him).
gomtv's action is justified. (what he did was wrong, no excuses).
surely there's some misunderstand among everyone regarding seeds and whatnot but it doesn't change anything.
move on, why is everyone splitting hair about it?
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On December 15 2011 08:53 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 08:51 SC2NeCro wrote:On December 15 2011 08:49 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:48 zeru wrote:On December 15 2011 08:48 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:46 LorDo wrote:On December 15 2011 08:41 TedJustice wrote:
Really, people don't seem to get what GOM is saying.
The Blizzard Cup spot Naniwa got IS the Code S spot he won. They are one in the same. He DID get a Code S spot from providence, and it was the Blizzard cup. It's basically Code S.
It's a tournament of the best of the best, hosted by GOMTV in korea, heavily intertwined with Code S (the top 3 code S points got seeded into it). It's just not technically called Code S. But it's all a part of the same GSL league. The winner of the Blizzard Cup still gets GSL points I believe.
For all intents and purposes, Naniwa did get his code S spot. Are you trolling? Blizzard Cup =/= Code S. He did not get it for all intents and purposes. You're wrong. Blizzard Cup = Code S It's just a different Title for GSL Dec. with different formats. No, its not the same at all. It's a separate event with no relation to GSL. Who is the damn host for the tournament? GOMTV If anything it's GSL Dec. Stop. Right now. You don't know what you are talking about. Blizz Cup is a completely different tournament and was never stated as the replacement to Code S in December. NaNiWa was awarded a Code S spot and now that was revoked because they felt like it. You should stop right now, because it's YOU who doesn't know what you're talking about. Blizzard Cup is a special tournament in December that REPLACES GSL Dec.
Based purely on how you worded it, earning a code s spot doesn't mean he has to play in the very next code s. Did it say "code s december?"
On December 15 2011 08:57 jinorazi wrote:
naniwa admits he was wrong (you fans need to stop defending him).
gomtv's action is justified. (what he did was wrong, no excuses).
surely there's some misunderstand among everyone regarding seeds and whatnot but it doesn't change anything.
move on, why is everyone splitting hair about it?
Everyone knows Naniwa has to admit hes wrong to save face PR wise. Doesn't mean GOM has to follow it up by neutering him and taking away his code s spot after what was already a gross overreaction.
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Ok, a picture has emerged.
GOMTV says that no Code S seed was awarded by Providence, it's a misunderstanding. The relevant rule is:
"At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, within the Top 3, regardless of country of origin, who does not already have Code S status."
Providence is later than MLG Columbus, but not a circuit competition. Circuits are Dallas, Columbus, Anaheim, Raleigh and Orlando. Providence is considered the national championship.
Furthermore, no Koreans were seeded into Providence, so unless the partnership was asymmetric, MLG did not pay for any Korean seeds through the partnership. Not seeded into pools, but paid for: "http://pro.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mc-mma-bomber-and-mvp-to-mlg-providence"
These facts need to be addressed before we can accuse GOMTV of lying, and, in fact, clarification by GOMTV and MLG would be nice just to clear the waters.
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Lol GOM making rules as they go.
Since when was the seeds invite. Absolutely pathetic from GOM.
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On December 15 2011 08:56 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 08:55 SC2NeCro wrote:On December 15 2011 08:53 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:51 SC2NeCro wrote:On December 15 2011 08:49 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:48 zeru wrote:On December 15 2011 08:48 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:46 LorDo wrote:On December 15 2011 08:41 TedJustice wrote:
Really, people don't seem to get what GOM is saying.
The Blizzard Cup spot Naniwa got IS the Code S spot he won. They are one in the same. He DID get a Code S spot from providence, and it was the Blizzard cup. It's basically Code S.
It's a tournament of the best of the best, hosted by GOMTV in korea, heavily intertwined with Code S (the top 3 code S points got seeded into it). It's just not technically called Code S. But it's all a part of the same GSL league. The winner of the Blizzard Cup still gets GSL points I believe.
For all intents and purposes, Naniwa did get his code S spot. Are you trolling? Blizzard Cup =/= Code S. He did not get it for all intents and purposes. You're wrong. Blizzard Cup = Code S It's just a different Title for GSL Dec. with different formats. No, its not the same at all. It's a separate event with no relation to GSL. Who is the damn host for the tournament? GOMTV If anything it's GSL Dec. Stop. Right now. You don't know what you are talking about. Blizz Cup is a completely different tournament and was never stated as the replacement to Code S in December. NaNiWa was awarded a Code S spot and now that was revoked because they felt like it. You should stop right now, because it's YOU who doesn't know what you're talking about. Blizzard Cup is a special tournament in December that REPLACES GSL Dec. Show me a quote then stating that then, otherwise stop talking and blowing smoke. Show me a quote stating that Blizzard Cup has no relation to GSL, otherwise stop talking and blowing smoke.
He's right actually, GSL and BCup are run by the same people, but the Cup is one big show match that takes the best from all competitions. GSL is a series which is run several times a year. Honestly think before you say stupid shit
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On December 15 2011 08:56 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 08:55 SC2NeCro wrote:On December 15 2011 08:53 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:51 SC2NeCro wrote:On December 15 2011 08:49 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:48 zeru wrote:On December 15 2011 08:48 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:46 LorDo wrote:On December 15 2011 08:41 TedJustice wrote:
Really, people don't seem to get what GOM is saying.
The Blizzard Cup spot Naniwa got IS the Code S spot he won. They are one in the same. He DID get a Code S spot from providence, and it was the Blizzard cup. It's basically Code S.
It's a tournament of the best of the best, hosted by GOMTV in korea, heavily intertwined with Code S (the top 3 code S points got seeded into it). It's just not technically called Code S. But it's all a part of the same GSL league. The winner of the Blizzard Cup still gets GSL points I believe.
For all intents and purposes, Naniwa did get his code S spot. Are you trolling? Blizzard Cup =/= Code S. He did not get it for all intents and purposes. You're wrong. Blizzard Cup = Code S It's just a different Title for GSL Dec. with different formats. No, its not the same at all. It's a separate event with no relation to GSL. Who is the damn host for the tournament? GOMTV If anything it's GSL Dec. Stop. Right now. You don't know what you are talking about. Blizz Cup is a completely different tournament and was never stated as the replacement to Code S in December. NaNiWa was awarded a Code S spot and now that was revoked because they felt like it. You should stop right now, because it's YOU who doesn't know what you're talking about. Blizzard Cup is a special tournament in December that REPLACES GSL Dec. Show me a quote then stating that then, otherwise stop talking and blowing smoke. Show me a quote stating that Blizzard Cup has no relation to GSL, otherwise stop talking and blowing smoke.
Are you serious right now? You are making a fool of yourself. You are the one here claiming BlizzCup is the same as Code S, the same tournament. YOU are the one here who has the burden of proof, stop evading the question and replacing it with your own, and man up. Not to mention the format is completely different but that clearly escapes you.
So I'll say it again, man up and show proof your claims or stop annoying everyone. Stop spouting garbage.
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On December 15 2011 08:56 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 08:55 SC2NeCro wrote:On December 15 2011 08:53 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:51 SC2NeCro wrote:On December 15 2011 08:49 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:48 zeru wrote:On December 15 2011 08:48 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:46 LorDo wrote:On December 15 2011 08:41 TedJustice wrote:
Really, people don't seem to get what GOM is saying.
The Blizzard Cup spot Naniwa got IS the Code S spot he won. They are one in the same. He DID get a Code S spot from providence, and it was the Blizzard cup. It's basically Code S.
It's a tournament of the best of the best, hosted by GOMTV in korea, heavily intertwined with Code S (the top 3 code S points got seeded into it). It's just not technically called Code S. But it's all a part of the same GSL league. The winner of the Blizzard Cup still gets GSL points I believe.
For all intents and purposes, Naniwa did get his code S spot. Are you trolling? Blizzard Cup =/= Code S. He did not get it for all intents and purposes. You're wrong. Blizzard Cup = Code S It's just a different Title for GSL Dec. with different formats. No, its not the same at all. It's a separate event with no relation to GSL. Who is the damn host for the tournament? GOMTV If anything it's GSL Dec. Stop. Right now. You don't know what you are talking about. Blizz Cup is a completely different tournament and was never stated as the replacement to Code S in December. NaNiWa was awarded a Code S spot and now that was revoked because they felt like it. You should stop right now, because it's YOU who doesn't know what you're talking about. Blizzard Cup is a special tournament in December that REPLACES GSL Dec. Show me a quote then stating that then, otherwise stop talking and blowing smoke. Show me a quote stating that Blizzard Cup has no relation to GSL, otherwise stop talking and blowing smoke.
Are you stupid. He owes you nothing. I get what youre trying(poorly) to express and you might very well be right but until you provide proof, Blizzard Cup doesnt get suddenly renamed to GSL December because JiPrime says so.
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On December 15 2011 08:57 jinorazi wrote:
naniwa admits he was wrong (you fans need to stop defending him).
gomtv's action is justified. (what he did was wrong, no excuses).
surely there's some misunderstand among everyone regarding seeds and whatnot but it doesn't change anything.
move on, why is everyone splitting hair about it?
Now they're arguing about the Code S seed. People here will argue about ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING. ;_;
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On December 15 2011 08:56 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 08:55 SC2NeCro wrote:On December 15 2011 08:53 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:51 SC2NeCro wrote:On December 15 2011 08:49 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:48 zeru wrote:On December 15 2011 08:48 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:46 LorDo wrote:On December 15 2011 08:41 TedJustice wrote:
Really, people don't seem to get what GOM is saying.
The Blizzard Cup spot Naniwa got IS the Code S spot he won. They are one in the same. He DID get a Code S spot from providence, and it was the Blizzard cup. It's basically Code S.
It's a tournament of the best of the best, hosted by GOMTV in korea, heavily intertwined with Code S (the top 3 code S points got seeded into it). It's just not technically called Code S. But it's all a part of the same GSL league. The winner of the Blizzard Cup still gets GSL points I believe.
For all intents and purposes, Naniwa did get his code S spot. Are you trolling? Blizzard Cup =/= Code S. He did not get it for all intents and purposes. You're wrong. Blizzard Cup = Code S It's just a different Title for GSL Dec. with different formats. No, its not the same at all. It's a separate event with no relation to GSL. Who is the damn host for the tournament? GOMTV If anything it's GSL Dec. Stop. Right now. You don't know what you are talking about. Blizz Cup is a completely different tournament and was never stated as the replacement to Code S in December. NaNiWa was awarded a Code S spot and now that was revoked because they felt like it. You should stop right now, because it's YOU who doesn't know what you're talking about. Blizzard Cup is a special tournament in December that REPLACES GSL Dec. Show me a quote then stating that then, otherwise stop talking and blowing smoke. Show me a quote stating that Blizzard Cup has no relation to GSL, otherwise stop talking and blowing smoke.
Ban this troll. It's like comparing Champions League in soccer to Premier League.
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We the community didn't know about the premesis for the Code S spot, I wonder if naniwa did. We and naniwa most defenetly did not know about any in game rule agains the situation that occurred.
Therefor a statement like this damages the legitimacy of GOM, I for once feel robbed. This is not professional at all, this is editing of information to fit thier agenda. Above all it's so damn unjust, I feel sad.
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On December 15 2011 08:41 TedJustice wrote:
Really, people don't seem to get what GOM is saying.
The Blizzard Cup spot Naniwa got IS the Code S spot he won. They are one in the same. He DID get a Code S spot from providence, and it was the Blizzard cup. It's basically Code S.
It's a tournament of the best of the best, hosted by GOMTV in korea, heavily intertwined with Code S (the top 3 code S points got seeded into it). It's just not technically called Code S. But it's all a part of the same GSL league. The winner of the Blizzard Cup still gets GSL points I believe.
For all intents and purposes, Naniwa did get his code S spot.
Wtf is this? You trolling?
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On December 15 2011 08:56 Truthful wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 08:54 Eppa! wrote:On December 15 2011 08:50 mtn wrote:On December 15 2011 08:47 dAPhREAk wrote:On December 15 2011 08:45 NipponBanzai wrote:On December 15 2011 08:41 dAPhREAk wrote:i think he meant an announcement that naniwa specifically had received code s. not a general announcement of how the system would work. there is ambiguity whether the general announcement was intended to continue in 2012 and if it was intended to continue if GOM changed its system. this, i am hoping for a statement from MLG on. ESV TV lost their code A seed when the format changed. So I'm guessing that MLG lost their seeds too? hell if i know. thats why i say wait for a response from mlg. They had only partnership for 2011. It was already posted. They only have a partnership for MLG 2011. GomTV never stated that their part would stop after newyear. and they shouldnt have to.
I'd hate to work for a company like that lol
"Dear employees, we decided to not give you a salary for the last year, don't be mad though, we're telling you now that we're busted!"
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On December 15 2011 08:58 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 08:56 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:55 SC2NeCro wrote:On December 15 2011 08:53 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:51 SC2NeCro wrote:On December 15 2011 08:49 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:48 zeru wrote:On December 15 2011 08:48 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 08:46 LorDo wrote:On December 15 2011 08:41 TedJustice wrote:
Really, people don't seem to get what GOM is saying.
The Blizzard Cup spot Naniwa got IS the Code S spot he won. They are one in the same. He DID get a Code S spot from providence, and it was the Blizzard cup. It's basically Code S.
It's a tournament of the best of the best, hosted by GOMTV in korea, heavily intertwined with Code S (the top 3 code S points got seeded into it). It's just not technically called Code S. But it's all a part of the same GSL league. The winner of the Blizzard Cup still gets GSL points I believe.
For all intents and purposes, Naniwa did get his code S spot. Are you trolling? Blizzard Cup =/= Code S. He did not get it for all intents and purposes. You're wrong. Blizzard Cup = Code S It's just a different Title for GSL Dec. with different formats. No, its not the same at all. It's a separate event with no relation to GSL. Who is the damn host for the tournament? GOMTV If anything it's GSL Dec. Stop. Right now. You don't know what you are talking about. Blizz Cup is a completely different tournament and was never stated as the replacement to Code S in December. NaNiWa was awarded a Code S spot and now that was revoked because they felt like it. You should stop right now, because it's YOU who doesn't know what you're talking about. Blizzard Cup is a special tournament in December that REPLACES GSL Dec. Show me a quote then stating that then, otherwise stop talking and blowing smoke. Show me a quote stating that Blizzard Cup has no relation to GSL, otherwise stop talking and blowing smoke. Are you stupid. He owes you nothing. I get what youre trying(poorly) to express and you might very well be right but until you provide proof, Blizzard Cup doesnt get suddenly renamed to GSL December because JiPrime says so.
He didn't provide proof in the first place as well so I feel no obligation to back up my posts.
When he actually does, then I will too.
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On December 15 2011 06:36 Attiicus wrote:
People spun this all way out of proportion. Good statement. And Ty for all you do for the community!
Agreed. GOM completely describes what happened and I support them.
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Seems like GOMTV has dug themselves a deep hole they can't seem to get out of. In retrospect it would have been better for them to just stand by their decision as a pure punishment, but then they started twisting and turning and bending words, and now they're just so involved in their own lies that they can't just admit what they did wrong.
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Well written response to their decision. I understand the reasons for what they've done and agree that it was the right thing to do.
I wish though that they had addressed the online community sooner, ie prepared this press release early and posted it here immediately after they announced their decision. Would have prevented much speculation.
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EPT
