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Eeeeh wish he whut particpate in next season tho.
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On December 15 2011 06:58 blinken wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:30 theBOOCH wrote:
Very nice, Quantic and Naniwa. Apology accepted. Statements like this annoy me to no end. You imply he has wronged you, or that he owes you for something. He owes you nothing.
I think you read into things too much. Accepting an apology doesn't imply self-entitlement, rofl.
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On December 15 2011 07:02 acrimoneyius wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:54 Mashmed wrote:On December 15 2011 06:52 wats0n wrote:On December 15 2011 06:22 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 06:19 twndomn wrote:
It's really a cultural gap. Not even IdrA would dare to do what Naniwa has done, while IN Korea. IdrA spent years in Korea to understand Korean culture (perhaps respect, status quo... etc) and then to get some respects from the Koreans. Naniwa has yet to do that. I think it's a cultural gap both ways. I think if Sundance was in Mr. Chae's position, you'd see the league taking responsibility for the format and not punishing the player this harshly. Both parties have been disrespectful and acted inappropriately. One has apologized and taken responsibility and now the other ought to. It's not a cultural gap. It's pretty universal. All games in the GSL are meaningful. It wasn't a meaningless game. There's a reason why before every single GSL game they put the Win-Loss record of the player in the GSL on the screen. Every game matters. You're judged by your record. Naniwa is what, 0-7 in the GSL now? You can't tell me that there's no difference between a player who is 10-20 in GSL games and one who is 15-5 (random numbers). Your record matters. It's your measure as a professional player. Why do people keep acting like this game was meaningless? It wasn't a ladder game and it wasn't meaningless. It was a live studio game, there were a half dozen casters in two languages, a live audience, 100,000+ people in twelve different time zones, and he threw the game. Are you kidding me? Had he used a strategy he had worked on for weeks in that match... that strategy would be lost. All for a game that matters nothing, yes it matters not one single bit. You do not gain anything from winning that game since you cannot use your original strategy because that would be a waste. Why does he HAVE to use a tailored strategy? He clearly had a decision as is evident by sending his probes across the map and taking his hand off of the keyboard. Your argument is he had to use a prepared strategy.....I'll refrain from insulting your intelligence, as desperately as I want to right now. Starcraft is a game of decisions, and that's irrefutable.
He could have used some bullshit strategy.. and 80% of the community would be ok with it. The other 20% are the people that doesn't think he did something wrong because we can actually distinguish a bullshit strategy when we see one. Another reason for not playing the match is: he has a rivalry with nestea, he wanted to play him in a match that matters because that would be prestigeous. But now he was faced with this stupid situation that he could not possibly play his best in and for that he didn't want to play it at all since he obviously didn't want to lose to any opponent with a bullshit strategy that 80% of the community thinks were bad decisions.
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I find it encouraging that the persons involved are communicating.
Of course, when discussing any 'punitive' action, we explain our interpretation of the predetermined guidelines and how they apply to the current situation, and how we follow predetermined guidelines in our response. Grey areas emerge when our interpretations conflict or there are no predetermined guidelines.
Ideally, we know what is expected of us at all times. If we do not, then we discuss our misunderstandings in a meaningful way.
Whether or not what has transpired proves what was stated above true or not, I cannot say. I would like to see Naniwa show his resilience as a player in the upcoming tournaments.
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On December 15 2011 07:02 Skyreaper wrote:There isn't an English version of the plan for upcoming 2012 GSL yet, but GomTV already posted an article about the revised format and new rule for 2012 GSL in Korean Website a few days before Blizzard Cup. It is stated that two sponsored players can compete Up/Down match to earn Code S. Link here(Kor) http://esports.gomtv.com/gsl/community/view.gom?mbid=1&msgid=24421&p=1
Thanks - I guess it sorta makes sense alongside the Blizzard Cup invite coming from Providence. Otherwise it would put too much weight for the Providence winner/2nd place to get Blizzard Cup invite AND Code S.
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Well, let's hope he really believes what he said. Naniwa has been a problem player for a long time, and if his actions match his words i'm sure he'll get a chance at code S again.
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United States1761 Posts
Naniwa made a huge mistake, and paid a huge price. He will have to work very hard to get what he has lost back, and he knows it. He has made a clear and conscientious apology. Case closed as far as I'm concerned.
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I love how Quantic Gaming is handling this situation. My new favorite team.
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We came to a point where GOM.tv has so much power that even when they make stupid arbitrary decisions players and teams have to redeem, backpedall and write an apology messages...
This really disgusts me ! This is nowhere near eSport !
And this IS NOT Naniwas fault, IT IS Gom.tv's fault for having badly designed the tournament format period.
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On December 15 2011 07:02 Mashmed wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:59 Loweryder wrote:On December 15 2011 06:18 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 06:15 m0ck wrote:
Well, pretty much a statement as expected. I hope tomorrow we see GOM being similar upfront about their responsibility for what took place. Bad tournament formats results in perverse incentives, and GOM should own up to that. Yeah these are my thoughts as well. Naniwa's statement is really generous and respectful of GOM. I hope GOM has the sense to reciprocate. I don't understand everyone's criticism of the tournament format... Group stages have been around seemingly forever, and several progamers (including Huk I believe) have expressed that it is their favourite type of tournament play, as it generally negates the occasional occurence of tournament favourites knocking each other out in the early rounds. It's not like GOMTV came up with this brand new, never-before-seen tournament format that just failed miserably... in that sense I'm not sure why GOMTV would have to apologize. Please let me know if I am missing something... the whole 'group stage format causes useless games' has never seemed to be an issue before this incident, it was assumed that players would act professionally in each match. Is it because there was no prize difference between 4th and 5th place? Is it becaues it's BO1 (it's not like this is new either)? Maybe it has been an issue and I've just never heard of it. On a side note, the apology is very well done if it is sincere. The format really is crap. And the reason it hasn't been made "public" before is that no shitstorm like the shitstorm that this became has happened before. I bet there has been plenty of matches that has been pointless, alot of them not being played because the players/admins talked and decided they didn't want to play it. The fact that this hasn't happened in korea before is because koreans have been scared shitless of the tyranny of kespa for so many years and they have seen the reprecautions of other peoples mistakes. Foreigners have not which meant this eventually had to happen because now everyone know that you can't do stuff you can normally because koreans have a totally different view on things.
Hate to break your bubble swedish guy, but care to tell me what's the format of your country's football league?
I'm sorry if you just found it out and got shocked.
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Honestly, this would be great... but, we've heard this story from Naniwa before haven't we? He's sorry and he'll do better. It's getting a bit old. Sounds like someone just told him what to say...
Sorry. Not buying it. Naniwa has become my least favorite player.
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On December 15 2011 07:08 LunaSea wrote:
We came to a point where GOM.tv has so much power that even when they make stupid arbitrary decisions players and teams have to redeem, backpedall and write an apology messages...
This really disgusts me ! This is nowhere near eSport !
And this IS NOT Naniwas fault, IT IS Gom.tv's fault for having badly designed the tournament format period.
It is naniwas fault, he even appologized for it himself. What more do you need?
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On December 15 2011 07:02 Mashmed wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:59 Loweryder wrote:On December 15 2011 06:18 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 06:15 m0ck wrote:
Well, pretty much a statement as expected. I hope tomorrow we see GOM being similar upfront about their responsibility for what took place. Bad tournament formats results in perverse incentives, and GOM should own up to that. Yeah these are my thoughts as well. Naniwa's statement is really generous and respectful of GOM. I hope GOM has the sense to reciprocate. I don't understand everyone's criticism of the tournament format... Group stages have been around seemingly forever, and several progamers (including Huk I believe) have expressed that it is their favourite type of tournament play, as it generally negates the occasional occurence of tournament favourites knocking each other out in the early rounds. It's not like GOMTV came up with this brand new, never-before-seen tournament format that just failed miserably... in that sense I'm not sure why GOMTV would have to apologize. Please let me know if I am missing something... the whole 'group stage format causes useless games' has never seemed to be an issue before this incident, it was assumed that players would act professionally in each match. Is it because there was no prize difference between 4th and 5th place? Is it becaues it's BO1 (it's not like this is new either)? Maybe it has been an issue and I've just never heard of it. On a side note, the apology is very well done if it is sincere. The format really is crap. And the reason it hasn't been made "public" before is that no shitstorm like the shitstorm that this became has happened before. I bet there has been plenty of matches that has been pointless, alot of them not being played because the players/admins talked and decided they didn't want to play it. The fact that this hasn't happened in korea before is because koreans have been scared shitless of the tyranny of kespa for so many years and they have seen the reprecautions of other peoples mistakes. Foreigners have not which meant this eventually had to happen because now everyone know that you can't do stuff you can normally because koreans have a totally different view on things.
That may be the one thing, but the reason why GOM has chosen this format is probably because there really wasn't a match as one-sided as Blizzard Cup tournament.
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Well done Naniwa, well done Quantic. I respect you.
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On December 15 2011 07:08 nokz88 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:02 Mashmed wrote:On December 15 2011 06:59 Loweryder wrote:On December 15 2011 06:18 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 06:15 m0ck wrote:
Well, pretty much a statement as expected. I hope tomorrow we see GOM being similar upfront about their responsibility for what took place. Bad tournament formats results in perverse incentives, and GOM should own up to that. Yeah these are my thoughts as well. Naniwa's statement is really generous and respectful of GOM. I hope GOM has the sense to reciprocate. I don't understand everyone's criticism of the tournament format... Group stages have been around seemingly forever, and several progamers (including Huk I believe) have expressed that it is their favourite type of tournament play, as it generally negates the occasional occurence of tournament favourites knocking each other out in the early rounds. It's not like GOMTV came up with this brand new, never-before-seen tournament format that just failed miserably... in that sense I'm not sure why GOMTV would have to apologize. Please let me know if I am missing something... the whole 'group stage format causes useless games' has never seemed to be an issue before this incident, it was assumed that players would act professionally in each match. Is it because there was no prize difference between 4th and 5th place? Is it becaues it's BO1 (it's not like this is new either)? Maybe it has been an issue and I've just never heard of it. On a side note, the apology is very well done if it is sincere. The format really is crap. And the reason it hasn't been made "public" before is that no shitstorm like the shitstorm that this became has happened before. I bet there has been plenty of matches that has been pointless, alot of them not being played because the players/admins talked and decided they didn't want to play it. The fact that this hasn't happened in korea before is because koreans have been scared shitless of the tyranny of kespa for so many years and they have seen the reprecautions of other peoples mistakes. Foreigners have not which meant this eventually had to happen because now everyone know that you can't do stuff you can normally because koreans have a totally different view on things. Hate to break your bubble swedish guy, but care to tell me what's the format of your country's football league? I'm sorry if you just found it out and got shocked.
world cup needs to apologize for having such terrible format!
I'm watching you FIFA! dont weasel out! I demand truth!
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On December 15 2011 07:08 nokz88 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:02 Mashmed wrote:On December 15 2011 06:59 Loweryder wrote:On December 15 2011 06:18 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 06:15 m0ck wrote:
Well, pretty much a statement as expected. I hope tomorrow we see GOM being similar upfront about their responsibility for what took place. Bad tournament formats results in perverse incentives, and GOM should own up to that. Yeah these are my thoughts as well. Naniwa's statement is really generous and respectful of GOM. I hope GOM has the sense to reciprocate. I don't understand everyone's criticism of the tournament format... Group stages have been around seemingly forever, and several progamers (including Huk I believe) have expressed that it is their favourite type of tournament play, as it generally negates the occasional occurence of tournament favourites knocking each other out in the early rounds. It's not like GOMTV came up with this brand new, never-before-seen tournament format that just failed miserably... in that sense I'm not sure why GOMTV would have to apologize. Please let me know if I am missing something... the whole 'group stage format causes useless games' has never seemed to be an issue before this incident, it was assumed that players would act professionally in each match. Is it because there was no prize difference between 4th and 5th place? Is it becaues it's BO1 (it's not like this is new either)? Maybe it has been an issue and I've just never heard of it. On a side note, the apology is very well done if it is sincere. The format really is crap. And the reason it hasn't been made "public" before is that no shitstorm like the shitstorm that this became has happened before. I bet there has been plenty of matches that has been pointless, alot of them not being played because the players/admins talked and decided they didn't want to play it. The fact that this hasn't happened in korea before is because koreans have been scared shitless of the tyranny of kespa for so many years and they have seen the reprecautions of other peoples mistakes. Foreigners have not which meant this eventually had to happen because now everyone know that you can't do stuff you can normally because koreans have a totally different view on things. Hate to break your bubble swedish guy, but care to tell me what's the format of your country's football league? I'm sorry if you just found it out and got shocked.
You mean the worst football league in the world? i have no idea...
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Very classy remarks from NaNiWa - I was disappointed with his behavior, and his words reassure me he understands. Well handled by all - Quantic, GOM, and NaNiWa after the fact.
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On December 15 2011 07:08 nokz88 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:02 Mashmed wrote:On December 15 2011 06:59 Loweryder wrote:On December 15 2011 06:18 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 15 2011 06:15 m0ck wrote:
Well, pretty much a statement as expected. I hope tomorrow we see GOM being similar upfront about their responsibility for what took place. Bad tournament formats results in perverse incentives, and GOM should own up to that. Yeah these are my thoughts as well. Naniwa's statement is really generous and respectful of GOM. I hope GOM has the sense to reciprocate. I don't understand everyone's criticism of the tournament format... Group stages have been around seemingly forever, and several progamers (including Huk I believe) have expressed that it is their favourite type of tournament play, as it generally negates the occasional occurence of tournament favourites knocking each other out in the early rounds. It's not like GOMTV came up with this brand new, never-before-seen tournament format that just failed miserably... in that sense I'm not sure why GOMTV would have to apologize. Please let me know if I am missing something... the whole 'group stage format causes useless games' has never seemed to be an issue before this incident, it was assumed that players would act professionally in each match. Is it because there was no prize difference between 4th and 5th place? Is it becaues it's BO1 (it's not like this is new either)? Maybe it has been an issue and I've just never heard of it. On a side note, the apology is very well done if it is sincere. The format really is crap. And the reason it hasn't been made "public" before is that no shitstorm like the shitstorm that this became has happened before. I bet there has been plenty of matches that has been pointless, alot of them not being played because the players/admins talked and decided they didn't want to play it. The fact that this hasn't happened in korea before is because koreans have been scared shitless of the tyranny of kespa for so many years and they have seen the reprecautions of other peoples mistakes. Foreigners have not which meant this eventually had to happen because now everyone know that you can't do stuff you can normally because koreans have a totally different view on things. Hate to break your bubble swedish guy, but care to tell me what's the format of your country's football league? I'm sorry if you just found it out and got shocked.
Seeing as many don't care about football here I doubt he knows or cares. At least I don't
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On December 15 2011 07:09 Hexxed wrote:
Honestly, this would be great... but, we've heard this story from Naniwa before haven't we? He's sorry and he'll do better. It's getting a bit old. Sounds like someone just told him what to say...
Sorry. Not buying it. Naniwa has become my least favorite player.
Actually, I don't think he have apologized like this before, correct me if I am wrong.
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When did Naniwa get so many fanboys?
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EPT
