|
On December 26 2011 02:39 clik wrote:
I'd rather players be truthful than fake a game. If he would have half assed a 4 gate game and still lost all the tmz reddit tools would have thought Naniwa was serious and legitimately lost. Personally I don't care about games that have nothing on the line, they will always mean nothing, and players will never take them 100% seriously. I would much rather see Naniwa vs. Nestea when there is something to lose knowing they are going to give it their all.
get your elitist attitude in check. gom put the match on stage for everyone to see, if that isn't enough for a player to get motivated to show the best they got, then they're not being professional and they are hurting esports. there's a reason the tournament was broadcasted, if all people cared about were results then a quick score sheet would of been the tournament.
|
That's the spirit! hope he can make it back.
|
This still bothers me today almost as much as before. Apologizing for nothing, and if he's earnest I would blame it on bad influence from the Korean community.
At least I didn't buy a GSL ticket for the first time. Hope I can stay away from it.
|
the real question is
will this win for nestea show up in the december stats graphs
|
I didn't watch these games live but I really can't understand how people are able to throw away their "good" image in just a few seconds. We all know that Naniwa's and NesTea's rivalry was built up strongly but this is no excuse to act like that in public. GOMTV's decision to revoke his Code S seed is right. He showed to f finger to everyone and not only to NesTea.
|
On December 26 2011 02:51 Malgrif wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2011 02:39 clik wrote:
I'd rather players be truthful than fake a game. If he would have half assed a 4 gate game and still lost all the tmz reddit tools would have thought Naniwa was serious and legitimately lost. Personally I don't care about games that have nothing on the line, they will always mean nothing, and players will never take them 100% seriously. I would much rather see Naniwa vs. Nestea when there is something to lose knowing they are going to give it their all. get your elitist attitude in check. gom put the match on stage for everyone to see, if that isn't enough for a player to get motivated to show the best they got, then they're not being professional and they are hurting esports. there's a reason the tournament was broadcasted, if all people cared about were results then a quick score sheet would of been the tournament.
What is with that terrible use of "would of" lately? The whole Internet seems to be plagued with this encouragement to incorrect grammar.
More so, clik never said it was only about results. It's about people differing in terms of what they call "quality entertainment". It's about authenticity. I personally switched off the MVP vs Nestea series back then, because to me it became an utter farce.
It was certainly disrespectful, inconsiderate of Naniwa- towards parts of the audience. This part just happens to be the largest one. It doesn't mean he was disrespectful towards everyone in general.
|
This thread is huge and obviously I have not read it all but I would like to add a few things.
I was working in Korea back in 2000-2002. Already at that time they had a dedicated Stardcraft channel on TV which I loved to watch even if comentary was in Korea. Korean culture is extremely difficult and almost upside down compared to western in Europe and US. I would say that only the Japanese culture is harder to penetrate. Starcraft is as you all know a religion in Korea and everyone cares. 50 million people, that is. I like koreans, so many good things to say, but there are also many bad things (in western way to see it). One of them is that koreans are extremely group minded (we are individual minded) and nationalistic (much more than ie americans will ever be).
One should understand that the background to this story.
Study Naniwa in intervju's before and during the MLG it was easy to understand he was too young and had too much childish attitude to know his own best. Intervjus between games made him look really bad. I am sure he is just young, inexperienced and perhaps a bit afraid why he is hiding behind all that attitude which noone likes, not even Swedes like me. But in western cultures we can kind of accept that.
What the koreans saw was something different. They saw a foregner that not only crushed their national hero in SC2 but in intervjus also saying he is a bad player. That took pride from Koreans. I young new guy made Nestea loose his face. You might get away with it if you have been around for some while (senior thinking) but in korean eyes, Naniwa (and other newcomers) will be a junior for a long time. And for national heroes like MMA, MVP, Nestea, Boxer etc you should probably never say anything bad about them.
So when he gets to GSL and does this probe rush, which aparently made the koreans rage it was an easy call for them to throw him out. How this decision is right or wrong in wwestern eyes is not important.
So what to do now for my fellow Swedish friend is to grow up mentallyand behave and keep playing good SC2. The koreans might accept him after a year or two if he can behave, show respect, learn a little about Korean culture and NOT making their national heroes loose their face. Look at the other young new korean players. Even if they would beat a ie MMA they would still bow and say nice things about them.
Koreans hate loosing face to westerners. Since we don't understand when they do it, they have no weapon against it, and they hate it.
Edit: When MC show a thumb down to Idra, he is doing that in ourwestern style. And you have to be MC to get away with it. All love to all players mentioned in this thread for playing great SC2.
|
I'm still ashamed foreigner fans of Naniwa still can't understand that was he did as wrong and that he was punished accordingly. I have blood of both Asian and European ancestors with a melting pot attitude of a Hawaii born American, the point being that I see all activities in a unbiased and worldly cultured manner, and I can accurately say this was no difference of culture. Naniwa and his loyal fans were in the wrong here. I am happy the subsequent punishments were handed down because they were completely warranted. Gom will still thrive regardless and this event, though perhaps never forgotten, will only serve as a positive example for the future that you can't do anything you want selfishly without regard to consequence.
|
On January 06 2012 07:27 kimchikid wrote:
What the koreans saw was something different. They saw a foregner that not only crushed their national hero in SC2 but in intervjus also saying he is a bad player. That took pride from Koreans. I young new guy made Nestea loose his face. You might get away with it if you have been around for some while (senior thinking) but in korean eyes, Naniwa (and other newcomers) will be a junior for a long time. And for national heroes like MMA, MVP, Nestea, Boxer etc you should probably never say anything bad about them.
So when he gets to GSL and does this probe rush, which aparently made the koreans rage it was an easy call for them to throw him out. How this decision is right or wrong in wwestern eyes is not important.
So what to do now for my fellow Swedish friend is to grow up mentallyand behave and keep playing good SC2. The koreans might accept him after a year or two if he can behave, show respect, learn a little about Korean culture and NOT making their national heroes loose their face. Look at the other young new korean players. Even if they would beat a ie MMA they would still bow and say nice things about them.
Koreans hate loosing face to westerners. Since we don't understand when they do it, they have no weapon against it, and they hate it.
What are you talking about
- Idra beat Koreans.So did HuK.
- What do you mean by "Loose his face" ("Lose?"), it's just a single match, statistically that many games doesn't mean one player is "better" than another player.
- it's not because "Oh Naniwa probe rushed _NesTea_" its because of professionalism. although both sides are at fault for this (GOM for putting useless games in, and naniwa for unprofessionalism --- Not because "oh because before Naniwa beat NesTea and made Nestea lose face")
And why bump this for no reason, the deed and everything's done. No point in reopening this ffs.
On January 06 2012 08:38 Liph wrote:
I'm still ashamed foreigner fans of Naniwa still can't understand that was he did as wrong and that he was punished accordingly. I have blood of both Asian and European ancestors with a melting pot attitude of a Hawaii born American, the point being that I see all activities in a unbiased and worldly cultured manner, and I can accurately say this was no difference of culture. Naniwa and his loyal fans were in the wrong here. I am happy the subsequent punishments were handed down because they were completely warranted. Gom will still thrive regardless and this event, though perhaps never forgotten, will only serve as a positive example for the future that you can't do anything you want selfishly without regard to consequence.
Yeah. naniwa was wrong in doing that, but GOM wasn't' 100% pure either.
GOM's wrong _was_ that they put in a useless game, and they should prevent that. That's all.
|
motbob
United States12546 Posts
This shouldn't have been bumped.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
