EPTThe Analytical Caster - A Twitter Story - Page 3
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Keep the discussion civil, please. | ||
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Soleron
United Kingdom1324 Posts
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Kamikazess
Brazil400 Posts
Like in other (real) sports, there are people whose life is to watch and analyze tons of games, and it will make you knowledgeable, regardless if you play or not. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
What I'm saying is that I still think it would be great to rotate through pro players as guest casters, one at a time maybe alongside the two full-time casters, both for the better analysis and for getting to know the players. It's a damn shame that we can go through an MLG and not see one game or the face of a guy like Sjow or Slush even if they're doing better than some more famous players. Why not put them beside the casters for a game or two once they're eliminated so we can at least get to know them and put a face to the name? Also, Idra or MC casting causes live threads to orgasm. There is clearly a demand for at least some pro players to participate more as guest casters, and it must be working on some level. Also, Homestory Cup being a tournament that uses almost exclusively players for casting was beloved for that unique approach to casting. I think other big tournaments should invest in this idea more. Making all the players more visible will help them build fans, which makes their games feel more dramatic than just a bunch of faceless players facing off. | ||
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TMOUllrich
England59 Posts
On November 30 2011 08:25 Zzoram wrote: I honestly think play-by-play is an outdated idea. We have eyes, we don't need someone to tell us what's happening. Outdated for you maybe, but an interesting concept no one seems to grasp is ... Everyone is DIFFERENT ! Just because you don't like a casting-style doesn't mean all other people dislike it aswell. On November 30 2011 08:37 TotalBiscuit wrote: As an example, I work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week and we cast for 14 hours each day while the players played far less, so this is a stupid argument. There is nothing easy about destroying your voice on a daily basis and then getting pissed on by randoms on a forum for doing so and if you believe otherwise I challenge you to try it. For sure it requires a lot of hard work, but it's also a very rewarding job where you get to have fun while doing it ! I have a friend who works 12 hour days at a factory doing the same monotomous task 1000's of times per day, now that's tough. Relative to most other jobs, you gotta admit casting is pretty sweet ! Not to say that you didn't earn it though, just bear in mind 99% of people posting have a lot worse jobs than you. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
I thought the central point of Huk's argumentation is that players get too little respect while casters are overpraised. (compare NASL, IPL, DH, where casters are in the center of the main stage + player booths to the very outer edge of the stage to GSL where the main stage only consists of the booths and the casters casts from the side) edit: kind of curious how this came to be. I don't think it's the caster's "fault" because they put themselves onto the stage or the player's "fault" because they forgot something important other than playing the game at as a high level as they can. | ||
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Canucklehead
Canada5074 Posts
On November 30 2011 08:20 YMCApylons wrote: Huk wins the argument. Just look at the Proleague - all the casters are former pros. The Proleague is a real esports organization, and they use former pros as casters, virtually exclusively. Well you missed slasher's point because you are in fact agreeing with him. Slasher's stance is that retired/former pros should be casters and not current players. The example of proleague you just gave is what slasher wants | ||
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
@orbtl Jake Sklarew @Slasher While the best analytical casters have been players, being a player does not = being a good caster. Let the pros establish themselves as casters and then bring them in. Then you get to preview whoever you're hiring. Can't forget my favorite caster now!  | ||
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Arcanne
United States1519 Posts
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
That's mostly for live events where the players just hang around and watch the games anyway, so they might as well cast. Obviously some players just aren't as suited (don't like to talk, don't speak good enough English etc) and there always needs to be at least one professional caster who can do all the talking/hyping. On the same note I would have loved it if 2 players like Huk, Thorzain, Kas or Naniwa sat on the Dreamhack couch during the final and gave insight on the TvP happening, instead of for example TotalBiscuit, who admitted himself he can't really contribute much to the analysis. edit: inb4 TotalBiscuit comes in here and says "here we go again" edit2: damn he already was in here... | ||
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garlicface
Canada4196 Posts
On November 30 2011 08:57 JustPassingBy wrote: By the way, how comes this turned out into this analytical vs play-by-play discussion? I thought the central point of Huk's argumentation is that players get too little respect while casters are overpraised. (compare NASL, IPL, DH, where casters are in the center of the main stage + player booths to the very outer edge of the stage to GSL where the main stage only consists of the booths and the casters casts from the side) Not respect, mainly treatment. I'm assuming there have been certain tournaments where HuK feels like he had a much harder time to perform at his peak than the casters did, probably because of selective treatment from the hosts. | ||
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mrRoflpwn
United States2618 Posts
No reason you can't cast once you've been knocked out of a tournament ( plenty of free time after all) | ||
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Aberu
United States968 Posts
Players income, comes from viewers watching their stream and ad revenue, tournament winnings, and team salary. If one is bigger than the other, than the individuals should be doing something about it. Not arguing over twitter. If you disagree with casters getting paid more than players, then you as a player should selling yourself, being more interesting. Have you seen these interviews with the players? Is there anything interesting about them? Have you seen the questions the media asks? Is there a single interesting question? That is the important thing right now. | ||
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mrafaeldie12
Brazil537 Posts
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DivinitySC2
United States244 Posts
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
full-time caster pair (as we currently have ) + 1 guest pro for live events = ultimate casting The pro doesn't have to talk that much if he's uncomfortable or has Engrish, but they can provide better analysis when it's needed. Also, we get to know the pro and he gets more fans and appreciation for his work. It also acts as a job interview of sorts, because one day some of these pros are going to become the best casters, and this gives them a chance to find out if they like it, and fans a chance to figure out if they like that player as a caster. | ||
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Mobius_1
United Kingdom2763 Posts
Also, TLO and Sheth at the end. <3 | ||
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Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
But in sc2, idra literally knows Zerg orders of magnitude times greater than TB (although tb is awesome) and specialist commentators will simply never reach that level of analysis. Even hearing coaches doing post match analysis in football is not really that much more insightful than your bread and butter analyst. Analytical commentators don't truly exist outside of Pro players. Artosis thinks 1 base colossus hard counters 1/1/1. Apollo is pretty correct but is not as in depth | ||
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YMCApylons
Taiwan359 Posts
On November 30 2011 08:57 Canucklehead wrote: Well you missed slasher's point because you are in fact agreeing with him. Slasher's stance is that retired/former pros should be casters and not current players. The example of proleague you just gave is what slasher wants Uhh...no. Slasher is making a big deal about "professional" casters, as if casting is a secret dark art. Proleague hires former pros because they acknowledge the obvious truth that pro-players make better casters, and because current pros work too hard to do casting on the side. They don't give two-shits about "professional casting." Hire former pros who the fans like, and casting basically solves itself. If Huk wants to do casting on the side, and he doesn't think it would hurt his game, I'd totally support that. Nal_Ra, the BW pro and now caster, went out of retirement to play in Proleague qualifers, and no one cared that he was breaking the magical player/caster wall that slasher insists on. Pro players are going to be better analytical casters, retired or not. The only reasonable objection to current pros casting is if their team managers don't want them wasting time casting. | ||
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garlicface
Canada4196 Posts
On November 30 2011 09:11 YMCApylons wrote: Uhh...no. Slasher is making a big deal about "professional" casters, as if casting is a secret dark art. Proleague hires former pros because they acknowledge the obvious truth that pro-players make better casters, and because current pros work too hard to do casting on the side. They don't give two-shits about "professional casting." Hire former pros who the fans like, and casting basically solves itself. If Huk wants to do casting on the side, and he doesn't think it would hurt his game, I'd totally support that. Nal_Ra, the BW pro and now caster, went out of retirement to play in Proleague qualifers, and no one cared that he was breaking the magical player/caster wall that slasher insists on. Pro players are going to be better analytical casters, retired or not. The only reasonable objection to current pros casting is if their team managers don't want them wasting time casting. The Korean leagues never hired "pro players" willy-nilly. Each of those commentators had a personality that was amazing for conveying the tone of the game and for involving the audience. It's like someone said earlier. Do you want MajOr casting at MLG? No, you want a "pro" who's already a community favourite. Chances are they're a community favourite because of their personality, moreso than their skill. | ||
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On November 30 2011 08:46 Zzoram wrote: Wouldn't MLG be so much better if instead of pairing Day9 with djWheat (who barely knows the game), he got paired with championship bracket players that were either not playing yet, or already eliminated? If say, Idra vs MC was casted by Day9 + Ret + Naniwa, HerO vs Leenock was casted by Day9 + Socke + Idra, and MVP vs MMA was casted by Day9 + DeMuslim + Thorzain? Day9 could provide the color commentary, and the two players, one of each race representing the players in the game being casted, could provide the insightful high level analysis and current metagame explanation. That seems to me like it would be the ideal future of casting. 1 full-time caster that's play-by-play and humor combined with 2 guest high level players for the analysis and so we can get to know the players better so the players can get more fans. 1) The players should be paid for their services if they take on a casting role during a tournament. 2) If an active player is going to take on any form of casting role, they should be eliminated from the tournament. I don't know if you understand just how much of a hassle it would be for the players to have to run around in between games to cast other games. A lot of the time these guys are doing everything they can just to find 10 minutes to eat their LUNCH in between games. I actually question just how many players would actually WANT to be involved in the casting during a tournament that they're playing. 3) Slasher is arguing for the exact same thing that many people in this thread continue to point out. That former players should be filling the casting jobs. That's how it's done in pro-league, and that's how it should be done. Where I would disagree with him is the situation where a player was eliminated earlier in the tournament, or doesn't have any more scheduled games for the day. Then let's get the player on there if they want to! But that said, when was the last time you saw Jaedong, Flash or Bisu cast a live game? 4) During the specific conversation being discussed, Mr Bitter wasn't specifically arguing that active players should be casting the games live. His specific point was that a player or two should be "on the couch" for the analysis between games. Which I think is a fantastic idea. Sports programs use active coaches and players all time for half-time analysis, which is essentially what "the couch" was being used for. It's noteworthy though, that sports programs do this during the playoffs, and they only bring on coaches and players that have already been eliminated from competition. You're not going to get Derek Jeter on your show to do half-time analysis on Tuesday, when he has a game coming up on Wednesday. But if it's the second-round of the playoffs and the Yankees were bumped in round 1. It's absolutely a legitimate possibility. | ||
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