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Keep the discussion civil, please. |
On January 06 2012 09:10 Alexj wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
You can hate TotalBiscuit all you want, but he did bring new adience to SC2. I know a few people who are very casual at SC2, and they all prefer TB's commentary over Day9's (I tried to make them watch dailies, but they didn't like to watch "that nerdy face" all the time). I personally would much prefer watching TB with analitical co-caster. In fact, my favorite comba is Day9+Husky (I think not enough people appreciate how good they mesh together)
You can also riot about the top caster's payings all you want, but casters do bring audience to tournaments. At this point we have high level tournaments too often, and it comes to quality of casting and production when I have to choose which I will follow. Hell, MLG might be at the worst time of day for me, but I would be most excited by it, if it has Day9+Husky and Tastosis at the same time, as both pairs are really great to watch.
Homestory Cup is great to watch pro players having fun and getting to know them better. It's great for getting more game knowledge. It's great for seeing more players in the spotlight on the stream. But it cannot be a recipe for every tournament. When I linked a HSC stream to one of my friends, he said "Who are these ugly non-expressive people on the stream?" (Yes, he is a fan of TotalBiscuit. And Idra. You can't really call any of them non-expressive, do you?)
Fact is, most pro players have steady income from their team's payment and occasional tournament winnings. Caster have only occasional payoff by a tournament. It's not really tournament's task to bring steady income to all the participating players. The tournaments should however bring enough exposure to participants, and they also need to pay their casters.
Now, what I'm trying to say, is there really is no reason why you should make all that fuss about tournaments paying casters this and players that. It's a competitive enviroment! There are much more tournaments that any player can really participate in. It's up to player and his management to decide which tournaments are good for their exposure (again, for player's team it's not about the winnings, it's about exposure). It's up to caster to decide if tournament pays good enough to come and stay sleep deprived for 3-4 days. All of it is not up to people who have nothing better to do than argue on forums. Tournaments understand this, and they do what they need to attract good players and good casters.
It might actually be a good idea for tournaments to have additional paid streams with analytical casters only (and yes, players would be great at this, fuck Slasher*). But this is still a niche demand in terms of viewers, no matter how many TB hate forum posts are there.
* See, I actually have something on actualy topic of this thread, unlike most posts there!
Cba to argue all your points but are those quotes from your friends real? They like TB (not what most consider very handsome man) yet they call the casters on HSC "ugly" and D9 is a "nerd face", sounds childish to me.
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On January 06 2012 09:10 Alexj wrote:
Fact is, most pro players have steady income from their team's payment and occasional tournament winnings. Caster have only occasional payoff by a tournament. It's not really tournament's task to bring steady income to all the participating players. The tournaments should however bring enough exposure to participants, and they also need to pay their casters.
The part you are stating here is not true. Maybe teams like EG give their players a good wage, but they seem to be an exception. Many of the koreans aren't even paid a salary (their necessities and housing are taken care of by the team though). This is a hard point to argue because teams don't publicly release salary numbers, but I would venture that the average pro sc2 gamer, in the west and in the east, does not make much money, and if they had to support anyone other than themselves (like a family) the wages they get from pro gaming would be unsustainable for their lifestyle. You don't become a pro gamer for the money in the west. You would earn much more and work much less just going to college and getting a job after in almost all cases.
I agree completely that if all the players earned a healthy income from their teams then the prize money becomes irrelevant (there is no NFL prize money, unless you want to count bonus clauses in players contracts, but that is paid by the team). The problem in SC2 is that many players do not earn what they are worth right now from their teams due to salary being secret, players being young and naive (no agents), and a concentration more on people who make publicity than results (more people probably know who Incontrol is than Polt). Just look at the reasons players give when they switch teams, it is very rarely a financial one.
In summary, the market is working to give Casters competitive rates of payment. Due to the way teams operate currently and the fact that most players do not receive good advice (like from agents in pro sports) those same competitive forces do not exist for the players, and it is keeping player wages down. The player DO need the income from tournaments.
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On January 06 2012 04:04 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 02:06 kellymilkies wrote:
Lets just all go back to making 7$ per game and hoping that you make enough at least for your fare to go home.
Or why not just get paid 50$ a day to cast 12 hours of games? Which includes CS1.6, WC3, and oh, you are suppose to do DoTA too. These are the 100 teams that have signed up. Have fun for the next 3 days.
Yeah guys, very good lets just all go back to 2007 where no casters got paid enough to even travel to a local event, buy lunch for him/herself and then travel home after midnight = no public transport = using whole day's pay for taxi.
All for what? So we could have people to all hate on us when after 5 years you accomplish the slightest of something?
Ok guys.
PS: TB is a great caster and entertainer. Love you John. (and singer. grattis on santa baby)
What you are saying has nothing to do with what is being discussed. The issue is not casters being paid, it is casters being paid more than the players, even the ones who win the tournament. Casters should be paid enough to make a living, nobody is disputing that. One big issue is rights. When Day9 casts a replay of player x he is making money off of that players work, money that the player sees none of. I realize Day9 is doing work as well by adding analysis and commentary, and he should make money from this, but the player should be entitled to an appropriate share. When Day9 does a "Idra Daily", Idra should receive a cut of the stream/youtube revenue. Casters are essentially exploiting the fact that legally Blizzard owns all the replays.
The player receive attention and free advertisement though.
I bet there are tons and tons of obscure pros that no one have heard of who just can't wait for Day9 or Husky to cast one of their games.
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On January 06 2012 07:16 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 06:32 Osmoses wrote:
It comes down to this: who is more important for the success of an event/esports? The players or the casters? The casters. Duh. Personally I can't stand watching games with bad casting, no matter who's playing. What's the worst part of any tournament? When they drag the socially awkward progamer teens out of their booths and shove them in front of a camera up on stage next to some rented big-breasted booth babe and shine a light in their face. Shit is awkward as hell. What's the best part? Whenever tastosis speak. I wouldn't watch starcraft2 games if it weren't for the casters. Throw money on them. They deserve it, they're the reason this whole scene exists. Not the guys who made a career out of playing video games all day
Disclaimer: not hating on progamers, just saying the casters are way more important and deserve their higher pay/status. Frankly, people who have attitudes like you are the problem imo. Don't take that as a slight, you are entitled to your opinion, I just think if the majority of people are like you SC2 will always be a niche game. People don't watch football games for the casting. If SC2 really wants to be a sport the primary draw has to be the gameplay and players not the casters. Hell I think Moletrap is terrible but I still watch GSL games that he casts because I want to see the games and players. A large part of the reason casters are the big draw is a failure on the casters to tell a story about the players, help us get to know them better, tell us what their stats are on that map and against that race should be the bare minimum. Yet they rarely if ever do this (Wheat is really the only one I see doing this on a regular basis). If the casters build up the players and their personalties better than the players and the gameplay can be competing draws with caster appeal.
If the gameplay and the players are supposed to be the center of attention then they need to earn it. In my opinion, SC2 is currently not good enough on its own. BW is, and that's why I can enjoy that even without casting. But the korean casters definitely put some extra spice on it. Never mind that I can't understand what they're saying, sometimes it's not about what you say but about how you say it.
In my opinion, most players are boring, socially awkward teenagers. That's one of the reasons I cheer for Idra, Destiny and, in the past, Firebathero. Because they have actual personalities whereas most players look at their feet and mumble humble.
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if you sign a contract with a pro gamer team, you can't then complain because you're not getting paid enough.
ffs if someone paid $1m a year to do some mundane easy task you can't victimise the person who takes the job.
personally i like totalbiscuit more and more every time he gets trolled and flamed for doing something he enjoys, and i believe that non-pro casters are far more entertaining than semi-pro casters who might be able to analyse a game - but 99% of them couldn't entertain an infant with a crayon and a bucket of play-doh.
"hi i am X and i am a high level sc2 player and i stream ladder and i like sc2 and i played broodwar and i am exactly the same as every grandmaster player and high master player in the entire world"
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On January 06 2012 21:43 shizna wrote:
if you sign a contract with a pro gamer team, you can't then complain because you're not getting paid enough.
ffs if someone paid $1m a year to do some mundane easy task you can't victimise the person who takes the job.
personally i like totalbiscuit more and more every time he gets trolled and flamed for doing something he enjoys, and i believe that non-pro casters are far more entertaining than semi-pro casters who might be able to analyse a game - but 99% of them couldn't entertain an infant with a crayon and a bucket of play-doh.
"hi i am X and i am a high level sc2 player and i stream ladder and i like sc2 and i played broodwar and i am exactly the same as every grandmaster player and high master player in the entire world"
When everyone doesn't have a very clear picture of what other players are making, it makes it much harder to determine what they themselves are worth, and it also stifles competition between teams for players. These players are not lawyers, and will often sign contracts that a professional would tell them to renegotiate some parts of, do you think athletes just sign the first contract they are given without having an agent look at it?
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On January 06 2012 09:30 karpo wrote:
Cba to argue all your points but are those quotes from your friends real? They like TB (not what most consider very handsome man) yet they call the casters on HSC "ugly" and D9 is a "nerd face", sounds childish to me.
Well I forgot to mention that some of these friends are huge trolls and like to exagerate quite a bit 
On January 06 2012 09:55 Duravi wrote:
The part you are stating here is not true. Maybe teams like EG give their players a good wage, but they seem to be an exception. Many of the koreans aren't even paid a salary (their necessities and housing are taken care of by the team though). This is a hard point to argue because teams don't publicly release salary numbers, but I would venture that the average pro sc2 gamer, in the west and in the east, does not make much money, and if they had to support anyone other than themselves (like a family) the wages they get from pro gaming would be unsustainable for their lifestyle. You don't become a pro gamer for the money in the west. You would earn much more and work much less just going to college and getting a job after in almost all cases.
You can't really compare "average pro" and Day9. Day9 is not an "average" caster. I can count 10-15 casters in the world that have a regular income from their casts, and only 3-5 who might get really huge salaries (I don't think TB or Rotterdam or IPL casters get as much money as Day9 and Tastosis). So if we compare "average pro" and "average caster"... "average pro" in western teams still has at least $300-500 salary. Average caster (not Day9, not Husky, not TB, not ESL or IPL guys) has a viewership close to 0 and no steady income
Korean pros don't have good salaries, but that slowly changes as well. Besides, why should it be discussed in this topic? Yes, it's not fair how korean gamers are treated, but it has nothing to do with Day9's salary, or western progamer's salary or whether players can be good casters.
On January 05 2012 08:03 Naniwa wrote:
i think we can all just agree that huk is underpaid
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So if we compare "average pro" and "average caster"... "average pro" in western teams still has at least $300-500 salary. Average caster (not Day9, not Husky, not TB, not ESL or IPL guys) has a viewership close to 0 and no steady income
Your comparison doesn't make a whole lot of sense. A $300 salary is $3600 a year, there is no way you can live off of that. Even if I double your high end estimate, $1000 a month say, it means the average pro makes 12k per year, well below the poverty line in most places. You honestly think any caster who is making a living casting makes less than that? The ones who do it part time like wheat, but have other jobs are not fair to use in this comparison, we are talking about full time players vs full time casters.
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On January 06 2012 23:58 Duravi wrote:
Your comparison doesn't make a whole lot of sense. A $300 salary is $3600 a year, there is no way you can live off of that. Even if I double your high end estimate, $1000 a month say, it means the average pro makes 12k per year, well below the poverty line in most places. You honestly think any caster who is making a living casting makes less than that? The ones who do it part time like wheat, but have other jobs are not fair to use in this comparison, we are talking about full time players vs full time casters.
Again, I doubt "average caster" (think about guys casting european weekly tournaments) makes even 300$ a month. "Any caster who is making a living casting" is not an average caster. It is probably a guy who started casting years ago and didn't have any salary/income until SC2 beta started (with a very rare exceptions, like Tastosis casting on Korean TV)
And yeah, I guess $500-$1000 for average pro is a better estimation than mine. There are probably 100 pros in the western scene with these salaries. That's much more than there are casters making at least $500 a month. Though smaller and lesser known teams might pay less than that -- and I mean the teams you probably have never heard about (do names like Incredible Panic and mXs.SR tell you anything? Yeah, thought so)
Are you serious about 12k a year being below poverty in most places? What the fuck? You sure don't know much about the world you live in. 12k might not be comfortable for those who leave in USA (coincidentally USA teams like EG have more money and probably higher salaries), but especially for Eastern Europe that's really good. Hell, that's really really good income for Ukraine, well above average. Well, you could earn more if you work in IT, finance or law -- all of which need a very good (and expensive) education. Why do you think Russians and Ukrainians are good at RTSes? Those pros, like White-Ra, Dimaga, Kas, Titan and Happy became good at the game while they were students. I think all of them are smart individuals and might eventually got jobs as, for example, programmers with higher salaries. But when they found out they already have decent (comparatively to average wages in their country) income while playing their favorite game, they liked it and focused on that.
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On January 07 2012 01:10 Alexj wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 23:58 Duravi wrote:
Your comparison doesn't make a whole lot of sense. A $300 salary is $3600 a year, there is no way you can live off of that. Even if I double your high end estimate, $1000 a month say, it means the average pro makes 12k per year, well below the poverty line in most places. You honestly think any caster who is making a living casting makes less than that? The ones who do it part time like wheat, but have other jobs are not fair to use in this comparison, we are talking about full time players vs full time casters. Again, I doubt "average caster" (think about guys casting european weekly tournaments) makes even 300$ a month. "Any caster who is making a living casting" is not an average caster. It is probably a guy who started casting years ago and didn't have any salary/income until SC2 beta started (with a very rare exceptions, like Tastosis casting on Korean TV) And yeah, I guess $500-$1000 for average pro is a better estimation than mine. There are probably 100 pros in the western scene with these salaries. That's much more than there are casters making at least $500 a month. Though smaller and lesser known teams might pay less than that -- and I mean the teams you probably have never heard about (do names like Incredible Panic and mXs.SR tell you anything? Yeah, thought so) Are you serious about 12k a year being below poverty in most places? What the fuck? You sure don't know much about the world you live in. 12k might not be comfortable for those who leave in USA (coincidentally USA teams like EG have more money and probably higher salaries), but especially for Eastern Europe that's really good. Hell, that's really really good income for Ukraine, well above average. Well, you could earn more if you work in IT, finance or law -- all of which need a very good (and expensive) education. Why do you think Russians and Ukrainians are good at RTSes? Those pros, like White-Ra, Dimaga, Kas, Titan and Happy became good at the game while they were students. I think all of them are smart individuals and might eventually got jobs as, for example, programmers with higher salaries. But when they found out they already have decent (comparatively to average wages in their country) income while playing their favorite game, they liked it and focused on that.
I was talking about in the US and Western Europe in mentioning 12k being at or below the poverty line, just to clarify. Obviously cost of living is a big factor, even within the US there is a lot of variation comparing rural and urban areas. The vast majority of SC2 pros outside of korea come from those two regions.
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On January 07 2012 02:36 Duravi wrote:
I was talking about in the US and Western Europe in mentioning 12k being at or below the poverty line, just to clarify. Obviously cost of living is a big factor, even within the US there is a lot of variation comparing rural and urban areas. The vast majority of SC2 pros outside of korea come from those two regions.
Are you sure about that? I honestly can't say for sure if it's true or not. We need to count pros in Eatern Europe, South America and Asia (minus Korea) versus USA/Canada + Western Europe (and I guess Australia for what it's worth). Then we can argue about those playes who do it full time versus those with "real jobs" and students. And if we're into bashing people for no apprent reason, we can argue about who really deserves to be a pro or not
All right, StarCraft comunities in China and Taiwan are very isolated atm, but let's look at the current top of TLPD excluding Koreans
 Kas (Ukraine)
 MaNa (Poland)
NaNiwa (Sweden)
SaSe (Sweden)
 Nerchio (Poland)
Beastyqt (Serbia)
Happy (Russia)
Sen (Taiwan)
Stephano (France)
XiGua (China)
IdrA (USA! USA!)
Now this is just too small of a sample to make a point, but... you see what point that would be
Then even if we forget about all of that... If pros were not happy about their financial situation they always have the option to abandon it. For example, when the popularity of WarCraft 3 was past it's peak, many russian War3 players succefully switched to poker. There are also other options, like coaching and streaming.
I would still be glad if the income of "average pros" was higher. But that's what we'll naturaly come to.
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Me being a big HuK fan, the twitter rage from him was actually quite painful to read... i'm seriously disapointed. Meh.
I don't even get this thread. How could anyone ever say than a job is overpaid? That's like shitting on someone for having it easier than you, instead of shiting on the reason why you have it hard. Seriously, wtf?
Are most players paid enough? No. Is it because casters are paid too much? No, it is not. So what's the point? Should we hate on casters for having a nice pay? How ridiculous can this be? Day9 and Tastosis are making much much money. Well! That's really cool! They are doing what they love the most, and they are getting paid nicely for it.
Instead of being jealous of casters because "they have it easier than us!", maybe players and team manager should try to work on way to change that? Do you really think that cuting the pay of the casters in half would help the players in any way? No, sorry, it would only hurt those casters, nothing else. No one would gain from that. Tournament or team will not suddenly give a shit ton of money to players only because Day9 is no more paid that much. It's ludicrous to even remotely think that.
How many good players there is? 100? 200?
How many good casters there is? 10...? 15?
There is too many players right now for the number of sponsors, that's the only reason. People must understand that SC2 is still a game and the fact that some players can live from playing it is actually awesome, but is not the norm, and probably will never be. But there is not that much really great casters... It's only normal that Day9 win more money that players, since he brings more money to the scene than any players. It may be sad, but that's the way it is. Blame the capitalism, not the casters. If you are not happy about it... work on it. Find solutions. Shiting on casters and being jealous of them is NOT a solution, and will NOT help any one. Who bring more people and money to the scene, anyway, a player like HuK or a caster like Day9?
In this world, people are not paid on effort made, but on result. And casters bring more result and money, therefore are paid more. If you think that you are not paid enough, ask yourself, what do you worth to an event? Would the event be as successful without you? Would your team be as popular? If it's yes and yes, you probably don't worth anything more than what you already make, no matter how hard you try. If it's no, then you probably deserve more, and then it's at you to bargin and ask for more, no one else. It absolutly have nothing to do with effort and hardwork. It's all about money.
Don't blame casters for having more money, blame capitalism. Occupy Wall Street.
But seriously, us, viewers (well, at least I, for one) don't want to read or hear about those money things. Choosing between castings and playings should not be a money thing, but a passion and ability things.
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On January 06 2012 09:16 SkimGuy wrote:
Guess why foreigners still watch Brood War games (Hint: It's not because of the Korean casting)
speak for yourself! At least 30% of why I watch BW is for dat Korean casting 
The biggest reason why casters are making so much more money than players is because casters get paid by gaming leagues when they go out to cast, whereas players are getting paid (or not getting paid) by their teams. Teams are more or less somewhat poor/can't afford exorbitant salaries whereas for gaming leagues they have a larger source of income, only pay casters on a per-event basis and thus can afford to pay them more.
Casters getting paid and players getting paid are two completely different issues, while related, have different causes and affecting one will not touch the other.
If this debate is about bad casters getting paid too much then the simple solution is to stop watching their casts. Let the free market economy do its thing. Stop making shit posts and accounts to bash people. What a lot of people seem to not be able to realize is that casting =/= game knowledge. Casting = entertainment. Game knowledge adds to entertainment, but clearly is not a necessity for the vast SC2 viewing public, otherwise those "bad casters" would be long gone.
TLDR: Deal wit it.
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On January 07 2012 03:28 Xalorian wrote:
Me being a big HuK fan, the twitter rage from him was actually quite painful to read... i'm seriously disapointed. Meh.
I don't even get this thread. How could anyone ever say than a job is overpaid? That's like shitting on someone for having it easier than you, instead of shiting on the reason why you have it hard. Seriously, wtf?
Are most players paid enough? No. Is it because casters are paid too much? No, it is not. So what's the point? Should we hate on casters for having a nice pay? How ridiculous can this be? Day9 and Tastosis are making much much money. Well! That's really cool! They are doing what they love the most, and they are getting paid nicely for it.
Instead of being jealous of casters because "they have it easier than us!", maybe players and team manager should try to work on way to change that? Do you really think that cuting the pay of the casters in half would help the players in any way? No, sorry, it would only hurt those casters, nothing else. No one would gain from that. Tournament or team will not suddenly give a shit ton of money to players only because Day9 is no more paid that much. It's ludicrous to even remotely think that.
How many good players there is? 100? 200?
How many good casters there is? 10...? 15?
There is too many players right now for the number of sponsors, that's the only reason. People must understand that SC2 is still a game and the fact that some players can live from playing it is actually awesome, but is not the norm, and probably will never be. But there is not that much really great casters... It's only normal that Day9 win more money that players, since he brings more money to the scene than any players. It may be sad, but that's the way it is. Blame the capitalism, not the casters. If you are not happy about it... work on it. Find solutions. Shiting on casters and being jealous of them is NOT a solution, and will NOT help any one. Who bring more people and money to the scene, anyway, a player like HuK or a caster like Day9?
In this world, people are not paid on effort made, but on result. And casters bring more result and money, therefore are paid more. If you think that you are not paid enough, ask yourself, what do you worth to an event? Would the event be as successful without you? Would your team be as popular? If it's yes and yes, you probably don't worth anything more than what you already make, no matter how hard you try. If it's no, then you probably deserve more, and then it's at you to bargin and ask for more, no one else. It absolutly have nothing to do with effort and hardwork. It's all about money.
Don't blame casters for having more money, blame capitalism. Occupy Wall Street.
But seriously, us, viewers (well, at least I, for one) don't want to read or hear about those money things. Choosing between castings and playings should not be a money thing, but a passion and ability things.
Here is the problem with what you said. If I am job hunting I can go to any number of resources, including the university I graduated from, and find out what the competitive rates in each region are for someone with my background. That information (or enough to make a very informed decision) is all out there. If I'm an SC2 player looking for a team I have no fucking clue what rates for people with my skill set are. The only way I can hope to find out is trying to get some of my pro pals to violate their NDAs and disclose the amount they are being paid to me, and even that would be just a few instances. I cannot name the salary amount with any degree of accuracy of a single player on that top 10 ELO Rank, the information is NOT out there.
So it is not a free market for the players, that is why they are underpaid. As a consequence the prize money from tournaments is more important to them than it would be if there were more competition between the teams. It is in NO WAY in the players favor to keep their salary secret, the advantage is 100% for the teams. The fact that the casters are making more than even the best players is not a fault of the casters, it is indicative of a problem in the system.
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Some players need to get over themselves. If 20 of the top pros of the world quit tomorrow, we would miss them for a week and be over them, some others would take their place in a heart beat. If great casters like Day9 or TB quit we would miss them forever.
Sure the best players in the world should make more then the most popular casters, IF they are able to capitalize on there popularity. In tennis, which is a sport I think it is fair to compare wit, the best's tournement winnings are great, but still their winnings are dwarfed by the income they generate from sponsors and branding themselves. This is also how it should be in SC2.
The lesser known players, and the players who recide among the top 100 mark earns about 100k-200k a year from tournements. Do you really think John McEnroe earns less then this from his commentating alone? No way. Why. Well John McEnroe commentating is more important to the viewers then it is for players to see Andreas Beck play. If you took half the field of a Wimbledon tournement and switched it with someone else no one would care (if it was the lower ranked players), if you switched McEnroe you would get a shitstorm. Only thing that would cause more dismay among the fans is if you took out Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray.
So what I am saying is that I think Day9 deserves to get payed more than any single pro outside Korea. He also does more for e-sports than any pro outside Korea.
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I would just like to add one more thing. When I got my first job as an engineer nowhere did I have to sign anything prohibiting me from revealing to anyone what the salary I am being paid is. I suspect this is true for most people. Then why, other than the fact that the teams do not want it, are we hiding the salaries of every major pro player in SC2? BW doesn't do this as far as I can tell...
If you want market forces to control what people are worth, then let them. Originally I blamed the tournaments for the discrepancy in player and caster pay, but the more I read the opinions of intelligent TL'ers on here the more I realize it is really the teams, and perhaps the lack of players unions, that are screwing over the players, not the tournaments and not the casters. These idiotic NDAs on players salary need to go, and if the players really want to make more money than casters instead of complaining on twitter they should form a players union that can levy power with the teams.
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Maybe the spread of tournament money has to be spread out a little more, so its a gradual slope instead of the exponential slope we have now. I mean, SC2 tournament structure is similar to tennis and golf, and the people who qualify still make enough to get by.
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This is becoming more and more painful to read.
Normally I would address each and everyone of you individually, but holy shit. It would be close to 3,000 words and what do I get out of it? Nothing. What would you get out of it? Most likely nothing.
I'll leave it at this:
If you enjoy what you are watching. Great. If you are having a hard time listening to caster. Hit that mute button or don't watch.
The solution is simple and its been said thousands and thousands of times. Probably a square root of that anyway. Let's just say really high.
No reason to get your panties twisted in a knot over a small Twitter conversation.
Twitter is bullshit. I would never use it to convey anything. That's what forums are for. 
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On January 07 2012 04:36 Tunkeg wrote:
In tennis, which is a sport I think it is fair to compare wit, the best's tournement winnings are great, but still their winnings are dwarfed by the income they generate from sponsors and branding themselves. This is also how it should be in SC2.
The lesser known players, and the players who recide among the top 100 mark earns about 100k-200k a year from tournements. Do you really think John McEnroe earns less then this from his commentating alone? No way. Why. Well John McEnroe commentating is more important to the viewers then it is for players to see Andreas Beck play. If you took half the field of a Wimbledon tournement and switched it with someone else no one would care (if it was the lower ranked players), if you switched McEnroe you would get a shitstorm. Only thing that would cause more dismay among the fans is if you took out Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray.
Coming from a tennis background i can say this is spot on.
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I'm more with Huk. I almost always prefer the players to be casting... even ESL casting is preferable for me to non player (or at least former high level BW/SC2) player casting. The only exception for me is artosis and Day[9]... But they are both if not pro level than at least former pro level and have a keen interest and spend a lot of time analyzing top level play...
Even tasteless, for me, is only really enjoyable because he's balanced with Artosis' deeper knowledge of the metagame. By himself, or paired with another non player caster (excluding artosis/day9) is far less enjoyable. Although he comes from a professional gaming background in broodwar, I definitely feel his depth of knowledge in the metagame has lowered.
TLDR I'm with Huk, prefer player casters, or at least casters who are really into starcraft analytically outside of casting games ala artosis/day9
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EPT
