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Keep the discussion civil, please. |
Can I just say how interesting it is to me to see such debate on casting compared to other competitive sports (and esports)
I followed mlg halo 3 back in the day and was simply stunned they had casters who knew the call outs and wtf was happening, like mind blown.
Yea in football/basketball sometimes you get a moron caster (like espn 2 college football omg >_>) but its usually met with a snide comment while you sip your beer. I don't even think I can name any of the commentators I hate lol.
But In SC2 something different happened. The casters came 1st, and are (in many cases) the only reason a person is watching the game. Like the amount of people who only know HD/Husky is almost brain paining (mkp was messing on EU server and more ppl knew hd husky than fucking marine king!) It really seems, as TB said, that the casters are bigger than the players. Which is kind of rough because being a media personality is less demanding every day than maintaining peak SC2 skill (I think this is objectively true at least) as Naniwa has stated.
I think in a year or 2 this current generation of players (which was WAY bigger in the foreign scene than the last generation BW players) will retire and a bunch will move into casting (in the way that artosis day9 tasteless have and gretorp and Incontrol appear to be following) And those players turned casters will have the large fan base that popular casters have now, combined with extremely high game knowledge. And when we finally have a pool of knowledgable casters to draw from, the most entertaining of those will succeed (see how eventually knowledge will be equal so entertainment matters, now its all about being entertaining knowledge is nbd since very few casters currently have it)
Eventually the casting world will be full of people like day9. Who you instantly want to sit and listen to, who are extremely passionate, and who are extremely knowledgeable.
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On January 06 2012 02:11 Naniwa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 02:06 kellymilkies wrote:
Lets just all go back to making 7$ per game and hoping that you make enough at least for your fare to go home.
Or why not just get paid 50$ a day to cast 12 hours of games? Which includes CS1.6, WC3, and oh, you are suppose to do DoTA too. These are the 100 teams that have signed up. Have fun for the next 3 days.
Yeah guys, very good lets just all go back to 2007 where no casters got paid enough to even travel to a local event, buy lunch for him/herself and then travel home after midnight = no public transport = using whole day's pay for taxi.
All for what? So we could have people to all hate on us when after 5 years you accomplish the slightest of something?
Ok guys.
PS: TB is a great caster and entertainer. Love you John. (and singer. grattis on santa baby)
dont think that was the point. 
Seriously. Thanks for the complete non-sequitur Kelly.
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On January 06 2012 02:33 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 02:30 BloodThirsty wrote:
meh im really disappointed in people such as TB to even respond to smurf posters like this. People really need to get a thicker skin in this business and if u want to be a professional dont read the forums or respond to trolls just get over it. Man reading this reminded me of the girls i knew in highschool of them being catty, all any of you are doing is just making TL and Sc2 look like a bunch of degenerate whining children. Grow up please Well, TB said it satisfied him. I guess if it makes him happier there's no harm (apart from getting banned).
i dont care what TB said, hes in the public eye in the EU scene for casters. What he does and says granted it may just be TL forums but if hes responding on trolls on here what if Sc2 gets bigger and more people troll. Will he just say whatever then if it makes him happier while making everyone else look bad? Just saying its a bad attribute to see from someone who is supposed to be a professional
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I think part of the problem is when there's a cult of celebrity around casters, and then sometimes they start to think too highly of themselves.
People like Day9/Tasteless/Artosis, who started out as as players and got where they are from the Broodwar days are a little different, but for most it's a sad state of affairs when people care more about the casters than the players in general anyway.
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On January 06 2012 02:06 kellymilkies wrote:
Lets just all go back to making 7$ per game and hoping that you make enough at least for your fare to go home.
Or why not just get paid 50$ a day to cast 12 hours of games? Which includes CS1.6, WC3, and oh, you are suppose to do DoTA too. These are the 100 teams that have signed up. Have fun for the next 3 days.
Yeah guys, very good lets just all go back to 2007 where no casters got paid enough to even travel to a local event, buy lunch for him/herself and then travel home after midnight = no public transport = using whole day's pay for taxi.
All for what? So we could have people to all hate on us when after 5 years you accomplish the slightest of something?
Ok guys.
PS: TB is a great caster and entertainer. Love you John. (and singer. grattis on santa baby)
What you are saying has nothing to do with what is being discussed. The issue is not casters being paid, it is casters being paid more than the players, even the ones who win the tournament. Casters should be paid enough to make a living, nobody is disputing that.
One big issue is rights. When Day9 casts a replay of player x he is making money off of that players work, money that the player sees none of. I realize Day9 is doing work as well by adding analysis and commentary, and he should make money from this, but the player should be entitled to an appropriate share. When Day9 does a "Idra Daily", Idra should receive a cut of the stream/youtube revenue. Casters are essentially exploiting the fact that legally Blizzard owns all the replays.
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Well that was an interesting 4 pages.
Money sucks. If I was a famous caster, I would cast for bacon.
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HuK said Day9 made 20k from the last DH, is that right?
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On January 06 2012 04:08 tuho12345 wrote:
HuK said Day9 made 20k from the last DH, is that right?
He said it on twitter and it was also mentioned some weeks ago during SotG. I would think Huk is a pretty trustworthy source.
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It doesn't really matter which of the awesome players wins to the audience, because the best person will win usually.
If anything, the casters are more important than the players. A good/bad caster can make or break an event very easily. I've said it before, but it needs a re-hash. This all comes down to supply and demand. The best players can't really afford to abstain from tournaments too much, so nothing will change in the near future.
If top tier players are unhappy about this, they should join in on the casting scene and hope the industry decides it should have valued them higher as players.
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So what happened to TB seeking help for his obvious anger management problems?
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TotalBiscuit doesn't mix well with TL at all imo. I can't imagine any member of the staff doing what he did today :S
People love Day9 and Tastosis (apart from there talent) because their passion for this game has been proven before, in the BW days. Totalbiscuit switching from WoW can seem everything but passionate.
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So do you think Day 9 makes only twice what the average SC2 pro player makes?
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On January 06 2012 04:24 Duravi wrote: So do you think Day 9 makes only twice what the average SC2 pro player makes?
no, i have no idea what they make as numbers aren't released (hence thread). I'm just saying there are parallels in other industries.
edit: to be clear i think the vast majority of sc2 pro players do not earn enough money. i just disagree with the 'players should always make more than casters' opinion.
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On January 06 2012 04:27 JustJonny wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 04:24 Duravi wrote: So do you think Day 9 makes only twice what the average SC2 pro player makes? no, i have no idea what they make as numbers aren't released (hence thread). I'm just saying there are parallels in other industries. edit: to be clear i think the vast majority of sc2 pro players do not earn enough money. i just disagree with the 'players should always make more than casters' opinion.
Yeah I agree with you there, I think the problem is more when casters are making more money than even the very best players (at least in the foreign scene).
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On January 06 2012 04:33 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 04:27 JustJonny wrote:On January 06 2012 04:24 Duravi wrote: So do you think Day 9 makes only twice what the average SC2 pro player makes? no, i have no idea what they make as numbers aren't released (hence thread). I'm just saying there are parallels in other industries. edit: to be clear i think the vast majority of sc2 pro players do not earn enough money. i just disagree with the 'players should always make more than casters' opinion. Yeah I agree with you there, I think the problem is more when casters are making more money than even the very best players (at least in the foreign scene).
and i'd agree with you there although i'm not sure how that could be fixed. the 'best' casters make money from so many sources (events, youtube, twitch, etc.). not many of them are a salaried employees of one particular organization (except artosis/tasteless) afaik. i do agree with HuK in that day9 making 20k, while the tournament winner making 16k for dreamhack is something that just doesn't seem right.
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Why is it that this thread did nothing (and I mean NOTHING) but make me hate TB?
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I've heard from Korean speakers that the Korean GSL casters have a lot more game knowledge than Tastosis and do lots of background research on even the most unknown players before they appear on stage.
I hope that casters in the foreigner scene can approach that level of professionalism one day.
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On January 06 2012 04:04 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 02:06 kellymilkies wrote:
Lets just all go back to making 7$ per game and hoping that you make enough at least for your fare to go home.
Or why not just get paid 50$ a day to cast 12 hours of games? Which includes CS1.6, WC3, and oh, you are suppose to do DoTA too. These are the 100 teams that have signed up. Have fun for the next 3 days.
Yeah guys, very good lets just all go back to 2007 where no casters got paid enough to even travel to a local event, buy lunch for him/herself and then travel home after midnight = no public transport = using whole day's pay for taxi.
All for what? So we could have people to all hate on us when after 5 years you accomplish the slightest of something?
Ok guys.
PS: TB is a great caster and entertainer. Love you John. (and singer. grattis on santa baby)
What you are saying has nothing to do with what is being discussed. The issue is not casters being paid, it is casters being paid more than the players, even the ones who win the tournament. Casters should be paid enough to make a living, nobody is disputing that. One big issue is rights. When Day9 casts a replay of player x he is making money off of that players work, money that the player sees none of. I realize Day9 is doing work as well by adding analysis and commentary, and he should make money from this, but the player should be entitled to an appropriate share. When Day9 does a "Idra Daily", Idra should receive a cut of the stream/youtube revenue. Casters are essentially exploiting the fact that legally Blizzard owns all the replays.
It is not true that the player sees nothing from it. In all other sports players are paid by and their main income is from teams/sponsors/ads. Day9 casting a player gives that player visibility that he can use to gain more money from sponsors/ads,..
Also there is no compelling reason for players to own the replays. Chess games, records of football games are not owned by players for mostly good reasons. For example two people would actually be owners of each replay. So if Idra would give Day9 his replay for $50, but his opponent denies the use altogether. So Idra gains nothing, not even the visibility he gains in current system and community loses. And that was just the example of many possible problems in that area.
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You don't see this argument when a caster or community person decides to start practicing or participating in events, only vica versa. I think the real concern here, is casters' job security.
Also, fuck slasher.
I don't know why people continue to take him seriously. He's confrontational for the sake of confrontation and his arguments usually have more holes than I ever care to explain.
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EPT
