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Keep the discussion civil, please. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
Being a caster is not only about giving understanding what is going on, but also having some jokes / stories to fill the hole when nothing is happening, knowing how to explain thing (and it's different from understanding something), knowing how to talk in front of a camera / thousand viewers. Say Tyler or IdrA for exemple are great analytical casters in my opinion : they are great to explain things, to put words on what they intend to do, but it's not the case for most high ranked players. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
Casters don't have to practice 10 hours a day every day. Their biggest complaint is having to fly all over the world so much on someone else's dime. | ||
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dotEXE
Netherlands41 Posts
On November 30 2011 08:25 Zzoram wrote: I honestly think play-by-play is an outdated idea. We have eyes, we don't need someone to tell us what's happening. Purely analytical casters explaining the decisions both players are making, and the possible responses they have to choose from in any given situation is much better casting and something that only active players can do. The current crop of casters are entirely made up of people not good at the game, and who therefore are wrong about so much of the things they say about the game, and who barely take their job seriously because they can't even remember the hotkeys for the resource tab and production tab. It's more about making jokes and either hyping up a player ridiculously or tearing down a player to the extreme. That said, we do need humor in casts. However, players can be funny AND analytical, and with a rotation of players doing the casting, all the players will gain exposure and popularity so they can start to develop a fanbase. Basically, the glut of casters right now is unnecessary, they are of questionable quality, and the whole scene would be better off with fewer casters and more active players doing rotating casting at tournaments. Shoving play-by-play commentary out of the way is probably a very bad idea. You may personally like pure analytical commentary in SC2, but just ask yourself the following: Am I truly able to watch a full match of (insert game/sport that you have little to no knowledge about) while listening to someone talking about the intricacies of correct form and breathing without paying any heed to the outcome of "battles" or the match itself? Because that is essentially whats left if play-by-play is removed. People will need someone to tell them "shit's on fire" when watching an OC float around while burning down. We need someone to point out how critical it is that the OC needs to be repaired in now and 10 seconds. I don't really care about the amount of income a player will lose if said OC dies, but rather of what a pivotal moment that is when the mule is landed but the OC dies right as it lands. Because that is what keeps attracting people to watch SC2. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On November 30 2011 08:35 Zzoram wrote: I don't think he's jealous, but casters are definitely the cushy easy job compared to being a player. Casters don't have to practice 10 hours a day every day. Their biggest complaint is having to fly all over the world so much on someone else's dime. Casters have to release content every week if not they are just going to disappear from the scene. | ||
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TBO
Germany1350 Posts
On November 30 2011 08:33 WhiteDog wrote: I think HuK is just jalous of caster's paid... Sorry to say it this way but that's how it sound. Casters (Day9, Tasteless, Artosis, TotalBiscuit, Apollo, MrBitter, RoTTerdam) are all big figures in the community with huge fan base and great personnality : that's why they are so paid, because the community just love them and follow them even more than players, and not because they know how to justify their salary. yah sure of all players out there, it would definitely be Huk who is jealous about what casters get paid... | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On November 30 2011 08:25 Zzoram wrote: I honestly think play-by-play is an outdated idea. We have eyes, we don't need someone to tell us what's happening. That's a parroted minority opinion. Why does that not apply to real sports, why are those guys who've been doing things the same way for decades suddenly outmoded because of a few people on an internet forum? Answer is they aren't, play-by-play excited so that viewers don't HAVE TO pay attention to all the nitty gritty and keep track of everything themselves, which as any actual caster will tell you, is exhausting. Sports analysis shows are niche for a reason and play-by-play/colour is used almost exclusively in sports broadcast to untold millions of people. One is more established than the other and with good reason. I'm willing to wager that most people in that actual audience in the arena that night know why play-by-play is used. The current crop of casters are entirely made up of people not good at the game. Oh, you're one of those. I don't think he's jealous, but casters are definitely the cushy easy job compared to being a player. Casters don't have to practice 10 hours a day every day. Their biggest complaint is having to fly all over the world so much on someone else's dime. As an example, I work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week and we cast for 14 hours each day while the players played far less, so this is a stupid argument. There is nothing easy about destroying your voice on a daily basis and then getting pissed on by randoms on a forum for doing so and if you believe otherwise I challenge you to try it. | ||
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Jiddra
Sweden2685 Posts
Players should not be casting as a job while playing the game as a pro. You need to separate the journalistic side and the team/player side. This is kind of what Kennigit was saying on sotg last time. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
Homestory Cup was super popular entirely because of the players rotating through the casting bench, giving us a chance to see all these players as real people. As long as players don't cast, they'll be faceless robots that give the casters we know something to talk about. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On November 30 2011 08:37 TBO wrote: yah sure of all players out there, it would definitely be Huk who is jealous about what casters get paid... Hey it's not a question of what Huk is winning, but more what he has to do to win what he is winning right now compared to what he considers casters have to do in order to get their "overpaid" salaries. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
On November 30 2011 08:37 Jiddra wrote: Slasher wins by deafult, Huk is not understanding the point and talks about other stuff. Players should not be casting as a job while playing the game as a pro. You need to separate the journalistic side and the team/player side. This is kind of what Kennigit was saying on sotg last time. Casters aren't journalists. There are no journalists in eSports right now. Journalism involves hard hitting questions and breaking news, and casters provide neither of those things. | ||
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YMCApylons
Taiwan359 Posts
On November 30 2011 08:25 Zzoram wrote: I honestly think play-by-play is an outdated idea. We have eyes, we don't need someone to tell us what's happening. Purely analytical casters explaining the decisions both players are making, and the possible responses they have to choose from in any given situation is much better casting and something that only active players can do. They are also free to point out any notable events going on, but it would be such a relief to not have to hear "He's moving out of his base. He's unsieging his tanks. He's making a planetary fortress." when it's something so basic and we can see it. Play-by-play comes from radio, and while we could maybe use less of it, I still appreciate it. I usually leave the stream on while doing something else, so it's nice to have an audio cue of when I should pay attention. Also, it makes the game a little more noob friendly. "Stim up the ramp" may be obvious to us, but the casual watcher probably needs to have that pointed out and explained. I didn't know jack about pro football when I started watching a few years ago, but now I know what a slant route or "giving up the soft corner" is. On November 30 2011 08:25 Zzoram wrote: The current crop of casters are entirely made up of people not good at the game, and who therefore are wrong about so much of the things they say about the game, and who barely take their job seriously because they can't even remember the hotkeys for the resource tab and production tab. It's more about making jokes and either hyping up a player ridiculously or tearing down a player to the extreme. [...] Basically, the glut of casters right now is unnecessary, they are of questionable quality, and the whole scene would be better off with fewer casters and more active players doing rotating casting at tournaments. I wouldn't go that far. But all the casters I respect are either former BW monsters or current pros. | ||
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Kharnage
Australia920 Posts
Good casters bring a lot to the table and make a good game totally awesome. Bad casters ruin good games and make me want to watch something else. More then a few times i've been watching games with cringe worthy casting that made me not enjoy the game to find that day9 was there to save the day by commentating on his stream. ( <3 day9! ) Pretty much all the really good casters were at dreamhack in my opinion. And if those guys are getting well paid for their time I think that's great. | ||
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
Is he saying that current players shouldn't cast as of right now? That makes no sense. That's what everybody wants. It's good for fans and the players who get to market themselves. | ||
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Traven
United States160 Posts
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Jiddra
Sweden2685 Posts
On November 30 2011 08:39 Zzoram wrote: Casters aren't journalists. There are no journalists in eSports right now. Journalism involves hard hitting questions and breaking news, and casters provide neither of those things. I belive you just offended sport journalists all over the world. Not every journalistic material is 60 minutes. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
However, I don't understand why people are pretending that they're top level players or something. They're not. Their analysis is sometimes wrong because they're not top level players and may misread or misunderstand a few situations. That's fine, everyone makes mistakes and it's usually not too bad. I'm just saying that active high level players would provide better analysis. Wouldn't MLG be so much better if instead of pairing Day9 with djWheat (who barely knows the game), he got paired with championship bracket players that were either not playing yet, or already eliminated? If say, Idra vs MC was casted by Day9 + Ret + Naniwa, HerO vs Leenock was casted by Day9 + Socke + Idra, and MVP vs MMA was casted by Day9 + DeMuslim + Thorzain? Day9 could provide the color commentary, and the two players, one of each race representing the players in the game being casted, could provide the insightful high level analysis and current metagame explanation. That seems to me like it would be the ideal future of casting. 1 full-time caster that's play-by-play and humor combined with 2 guest high level players for the analysis and so we can get to know the players better so the players can get more fans. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On November 30 2011 08:46 Zzoram wrote: Wouldn't MLG be so much better if instead of pairing Day9 with djWheat (who barely knows the game), he got paired with championship bracket players that were either not playing yet, or already eliminated? If say, Idra vs MC was casted by Day9 + Ret + Naniwa, HerO vs Leenock was casted by Day9 + Socke + Idra, and MVP vs MMA was casted by Day9 + DeMuslim + Thorzain? Yes please! Though, then the homestory cup wouldn't be anything special anymore. :-/ | ||
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Elwar
953 Posts
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garlicface
Canada4196 Posts
On November 30 2011 08:46 Zzoram wrote: I'm not saying that I don't respect Day9 and Tastetosis. They're my favourite casters by far because they have legitimate roots in Starcraft and they're entertaining. However, I don't understand why people are pretending that they're top level players or something. They're not. Their analysis is sometimes wrong because they're not top level players and may misread or misunderstand a few situations. That's fine, everyone makes mistakes and it's usually not too bad. I'm just saying that active high level players would provide better analysis. Wouldn't MLG be so much better if instead of pairing Day9 with djWheat (who barely knows the game), he got paired with championship bracket players that were either not playing yet, or already eliminated? If say, Idra vs MC was casted by Day9 + Ret + Naniwa, HerO vs Leenock was casted by Day9 + Socke + Idra, and MVP vs MMA was casted by Day9 + DeMuslim + Thorzain? Absolutely not. Why are people forgetting the charisma that our current popular casters have? There are very, VERY few players who could cast in a way as animated them and still be worthwhile because of their insight. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On November 30 2011 08:49 garlicface wrote: Absolutely not. Why are people forgetting the charisma that our current popular casters have? There are very, VERY few players who could cast in a way as animated them and still be worthwhile because of their insight. Charisma is something subjective, though. He (or me) might not agree with your opinion on that one. | ||
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