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On November 16 2011 12:19 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 12:11 Kaitlin wrote:On November 16 2011 12:09 iCanada wrote:On November 16 2011 11:39 Kaitlin wrote:On November 16 2011 11:28 moocow2009 wrote:On November 16 2011 11:16 Kaitlin wrote:On November 16 2011 11:01 Supamang wrote:On November 16 2011 10:47 Kaitlin wrote:On November 16 2011 10:17 Satire wrote:On November 16 2011 09:30 Kaitlin wrote:
Sometimes I wonder what's wrong with stream "cheating". They aren't hacking. Their opponent is telling the world exactly what they are doing because they have made a decision that it's worth it because they make money from having viewers. That's the decision made by the streamer. Isn't it kind of weak to call your opponent a cheater when you are the one telling them exactly what you are doing ? If your argument is that stream cheating should be an assumed risk, I would agree with you to some extent; however, it appears that your argument is based only on a financial platform. Are you saying that it would be "okay" if someone streamed with no personal gain in mind? Following your logic, it's okay for someone to steal from a store with a poorly designed layout, simply because that is an assumed risk for opening a publicly accessible store with poor security conditions. While parameters of a situation change ethical debates frequently (think: stealing medication to save a life of another) I don't believe we're going to find such a beneficent set of circumstances occuring in stream cheating. So your debate shouldn't be about assumed risk or the parameters of the situation, it should be able whether cheating is acceptable or not. I guess in your case it's okay. I can't argue with that opinion, but I think it's unfair to place responsibility on the streamers. The only reason I mentioned the financial aspect is the assumption that the streamer has made a decision to stream, even though that would open them up to stream "cheating", but they go ahead anyways because it's a tradeoff for them. Comparing this to stealing meds to save someone's life or TB's parked car is a bit over the top, don't you think ? These are ladder matches in a video game. It's not like they are streaming their MLG matches to their opponents. I see this as akin to playing poker with your opponent placing his cards face up in front of him. Are you cheating to look at his cards ? I say no. It's just really stupid for you opponent to do that in poker because what is the benefit ? Same thing with Starcraft, except the opponent does benefit by streaming games to the public. Whether it's fame, money, ego, whatever. They make that decision to do it. I don't see the top pros streaming their practice sessions where they are working on secret builds, do you ? Why not ? Because they don't wish to "assume the risk" that people learn what they are doing. I think the whole idea of getting upset over people stream "cheating" mere ladder games is a bit silly. For the record, I've never stream "sniped", "cheated", etc., as even if I tried, I'm not high enough to match against anybody important. You missed the main analogy that he was referring to. "Stealing meds" was an aside that doesnt really need focusing on, the main analogy that you should have addressed as: Following your logic, it's okay for someone to steal from a store with a poorly designed layout, simply because that is an assumed risk for opening a publicly accessible store with poor security conditions. Perhaps stealing is still too harsh of a comparison for you since it involves literally taking from someone else. A better example, then, would be: Following your logic, it's ok for someone to stalk (or constantly harass with phone calls would be closer to the idea of stream sniping) a girl simply because it is an assumed risk of walking around in public for everyone to see, looking as sexy as she does. I dont care about an occasional stream snipe. Using the example above, of course that girls gonna get hit on by some guys if she goes to a bar. However, constant harassment of a pro streamer should be looked down upon just as constant harassment of a girl could land you a restraining order. No, stalking a girl is illegal. It is also illegal to expose yourself in public, which I guess in this example would be the equivalent to the streamer, if the 'stalker' is the sniper. It's a bad example. What about the open-faced poker player ? About the repetitive 'harassment' of the streamers, I would be happy to see Blizzard implement something where you don't play the same person over and over again. But really, that's independent of sniping or stream 'cheating'. I thought they did put something in, but I'm not sure about that. Further, not to criticize Destiny, but in a couple of his recent Youtube videos, I think about teaching someone a cheesy terran build, he is basically watching someone else's stream during a ladder game, giving them advice on how to play. This is kind of the opposite end of this whole spectrum, in this case the streamer is getting benefit from viewers. How do you guys feel about this ? Because it seems if you frown upon the stream "cheating", this should fall into the same category. Again, not to call out Destiny, as I find him entertaining and tune in his stream quite often, but if he's against this 'stream cheating', then it seems he's hopped on both sides of the fence, so to speak. I think you missed a crucial part of his analogy -- the girl isn't "exposing" herself in public -- she's just minding her own business, walking in public. She has done absolutely nothing wrong. However, because she's attractive (because she naturally is), the stalker starts to stalk her. And I don't see why stalking being illegal is relevant -- it's immoral, and just because stream cheating isn't illegal doesn't mean it's not also immortal. While you will often play the same player multiple times just naturally (since you're both ending your previous game at the same time), stream sniping will often cause this to happen (when it otherwise wouldn't have). It can sometimes be independent of stream sniping, but isn't necessarily. The difference here is that the person gave Destiny permission to do this. Stream snipers/cheaters do not receive permission from the people they're playing (and in fact, they're often asked to stop). Back to the girl analogy, Destiny in this case would be the girl's boyfriend. It's okay for him to have pictures of her, or send her love letters, or whatever, because he has her implied permission (by the fact that she continues to date him). The stalker, however, is in the wrong, simply because he does not have her permission to do such things. First, I completely disagree with the whole analogy comparing a ladder game of Starcraft 2 to stalking a girl on the street. Second, in the Destiny situation, it's not relevant that SHE gave him permission. Did her opponent give him permission ? No, of course not. But do I care ? Not really because this is not much different than Destiny standing over he shoulder giving advice. Something that wouldn't be allowed in tournaments, but for meaningless ladder games, it's fine. Or is it ? Again, what about the poker analogy ? Is it cheating to look at your poker opponent's cards if he lays them out face-up in front of him ? It isn't cheating for you to look at a guys cards if he intentionally shows them to you. However, this isn't quite analogous as you not looking at the guys cards means you need to go out of your way, not the other way around. By streaming, you are showing the public your gameplay, however while playing against someone they are no longer paart of the public, as they are now your opponent. A much better analogy would be if he was playing poker on TV and you tuned into ESPN in order to see his cards. As far as I am concerned stream sniping is cheating and breaking the system in the first place. Even disregarding the potential to stream cheat, being able to pick your opponent in an environment that is supposed to match you with someone random of the same skill level gives you a huge advantage. It is much like going to a Casino and playing Blackjack while counting cards; the game is intended to give you a 1/50 chance to get any given card, but if you start counting cards suddenly you know when your chances are much much higher to get any card in particular. For example, if I streamsnipe IdrA I can almost guarantee you he isn't going to 6pool me, whereas random GM zerg just might. This is why poker games broadcast on ESPN are not live ... So you're saying that you want the SC2 community to stop feeding us hours of virtually free content in order to appease a couple of stream snipers? How about instead of screwing over the whole community we screw the portion of the community who associates themselves with cheaters.
No, I don't want to take away streamers' source of income. If they can earn a living that way, and some of them can, surprisingly, more power to them. But just realize that by streaming your content, you are willing to accept the fact that you are potentially giving some of your opponents perfect information. If a particular opponent wants a "fair" game or is trying to improve, then they won't play while watching the stream. However, that's their decision, just as streaming their games is the streamers' decision.
I'm not trying to appease stream snipers, or anyone else. Just saying this type of thing goes with the territory of opening your "secrets" up to public consumption. Isn't this basically Blizzard's position ? If you make the decision to stream your games, don't expect them to do anything if your opponents choose to watch said stream.
Do you really think streamers are going to stop streaming their games (forgoing that income) just so that they can have 'fair' ladder games ? Come on. MMR doesn't pay bills. Stream income does. Fame and team recognition, sponsorships, coaching income, all the things that go along with getting yourself known by streaming your games, does pay the bills.
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If you're watching the stream to set up a game there's no reason to believe that you're turning it off other than the fact you say you're such an upstanding citizen. Don't be surprised when people assume you cheat.
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On November 16 2011 12:59 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 12:19 iCanada wrote:On November 16 2011 12:11 Kaitlin wrote:On November 16 2011 12:09 iCanada wrote:On November 16 2011 11:39 Kaitlin wrote:On November 16 2011 11:28 moocow2009 wrote:On November 16 2011 11:16 Kaitlin wrote:On November 16 2011 11:01 Supamang wrote:On November 16 2011 10:47 Kaitlin wrote:On November 16 2011 10:17 Satire wrote:
[quote]
If your argument is that stream cheating should be an assumed risk, I would agree with you to some extent; however, it appears that your argument is based only on a financial platform. Are you saying that it would be "okay" if someone streamed with no personal gain in mind? Following your logic, it's okay for someone to steal from a store with a poorly designed layout, simply because that is an assumed risk for opening a publicly accessible store with poor security conditions. While parameters of a situation change ethical debates frequently (think: stealing medication to save a life of another) I don't believe we're going to find such a beneficent set of circumstances occuring in stream cheating. So your debate shouldn't be about assumed risk or the parameters of the situation, it should be able whether cheating is acceptable or not. I guess in your case it's okay. I can't argue with that opinion, but I think it's unfair to place responsibility on the streamers. The only reason I mentioned the financial aspect is the assumption that the streamer has made a decision to stream, even though that would open them up to stream "cheating", but they go ahead anyways because it's a tradeoff for them. Comparing this to stealing meds to save someone's life or TB's parked car is a bit over the top, don't you think ? These are ladder matches in a video game. It's not like they are streaming their MLG matches to their opponents. I see this as akin to playing poker with your opponent placing his cards face up in front of him. Are you cheating to look at his cards ? I say no. It's just really stupid for you opponent to do that in poker because what is the benefit ? Same thing with Starcraft, except the opponent does benefit by streaming games to the public. Whether it's fame, money, ego, whatever. They make that decision to do it. I don't see the top pros streaming their practice sessions where they are working on secret builds, do you ? Why not ? Because they don't wish to "assume the risk" that people learn what they are doing. I think the whole idea of getting upset over people stream "cheating" mere ladder games is a bit silly. For the record, I've never stream "sniped", "cheated", etc., as even if I tried, I'm not high enough to match against anybody important. You missed the main analogy that he was referring to. "Stealing meds" was an aside that doesnt really need focusing on, the main analogy that you should have addressed as: Following your logic, it's okay for someone to steal from a store with a poorly designed layout, simply because that is an assumed risk for opening a publicly accessible store with poor security conditions. Perhaps stealing is still too harsh of a comparison for you since it involves literally taking from someone else. A better example, then, would be: Following your logic, it's ok for someone to stalk (or constantly harass with phone calls would be closer to the idea of stream sniping) a girl simply because it is an assumed risk of walking around in public for everyone to see, looking as sexy as she does. I dont care about an occasional stream snipe. Using the example above, of course that girls gonna get hit on by some guys if she goes to a bar. However, constant harassment of a pro streamer should be looked down upon just as constant harassment of a girl could land you a restraining order. No, stalking a girl is illegal. It is also illegal to expose yourself in public, which I guess in this example would be the equivalent to the streamer, if the 'stalker' is the sniper. It's a bad example. What about the open-faced poker player ? About the repetitive 'harassment' of the streamers, I would be happy to see Blizzard implement something where you don't play the same person over and over again. But really, that's independent of sniping or stream 'cheating'. I thought they did put something in, but I'm not sure about that. Further, not to criticize Destiny, but in a couple of his recent Youtube videos, I think about teaching someone a cheesy terran build, he is basically watching someone else's stream during a ladder game, giving them advice on how to play. This is kind of the opposite end of this whole spectrum, in this case the streamer is getting benefit from viewers. How do you guys feel about this ? Because it seems if you frown upon the stream "cheating", this should fall into the same category. Again, not to call out Destiny, as I find him entertaining and tune in his stream quite often, but if he's against this 'stream cheating', then it seems he's hopped on both sides of the fence, so to speak. I think you missed a crucial part of his analogy -- the girl isn't "exposing" herself in public -- she's just minding her own business, walking in public. She has done absolutely nothing wrong. However, because she's attractive (because she naturally is), the stalker starts to stalk her. And I don't see why stalking being illegal is relevant -- it's immoral, and just because stream cheating isn't illegal doesn't mean it's not also immortal. While you will often play the same player multiple times just naturally (since you're both ending your previous game at the same time), stream sniping will often cause this to happen (when it otherwise wouldn't have). It can sometimes be independent of stream sniping, but isn't necessarily. The difference here is that the person gave Destiny permission to do this. Stream snipers/cheaters do not receive permission from the people they're playing (and in fact, they're often asked to stop). Back to the girl analogy, Destiny in this case would be the girl's boyfriend. It's okay for him to have pictures of her, or send her love letters, or whatever, because he has her implied permission (by the fact that she continues to date him). The stalker, however, is in the wrong, simply because he does not have her permission to do such things. First, I completely disagree with the whole analogy comparing a ladder game of Starcraft 2 to stalking a girl on the street. Second, in the Destiny situation, it's not relevant that SHE gave him permission. Did her opponent give him permission ? No, of course not. But do I care ? Not really because this is not much different than Destiny standing over he shoulder giving advice. Something that wouldn't be allowed in tournaments, but for meaningless ladder games, it's fine. Or is it ? Again, what about the poker analogy ? Is it cheating to look at your poker opponent's cards if he lays them out face-up in front of him ? It isn't cheating for you to look at a guys cards if he intentionally shows them to you. However, this isn't quite analogous as you not looking at the guys cards means you need to go out of your way, not the other way around. By streaming, you are showing the public your gameplay, however while playing against someone they are no longer paart of the public, as they are now your opponent. A much better analogy would be if he was playing poker on TV and you tuned into ESPN in order to see his cards. As far as I am concerned stream sniping is cheating and breaking the system in the first place. Even disregarding the potential to stream cheat, being able to pick your opponent in an environment that is supposed to match you with someone random of the same skill level gives you a huge advantage. It is much like going to a Casino and playing Blackjack while counting cards; the game is intended to give you a 1/50 chance to get any given card, but if you start counting cards suddenly you know when your chances are much much higher to get any card in particular. For example, if I streamsnipe IdrA I can almost guarantee you he isn't going to 6pool me, whereas random GM zerg just might. This is why poker games broadcast on ESPN are not live ... So you're saying that you want the SC2 community to stop feeding us hours of virtually free content in order to appease a couple of stream snipers? How about instead of screwing over the whole community we screw the portion of the community who associates themselves with cheaters. No, I don't want to take away streamers' source of income. If they can earn a living that way, and some of them can, surprisingly, more power to them. But just realize that by streaming your content, you are willing to accept the fact that you are potentially giving some of your opponents perfect information. If a particular opponent wants a "fair" game or is trying to improve, then they won't play while watching the stream. However, that's their decision, just as streaming their games is the streamers' decision. I'm not trying to appease stream snipers, or anyone else. Just saying this type of thing goes with the territory of opening your "secrets" up to public consumption. Isn't this basically Blizzard's position ? If you make the decision to stream your games, don't expect them to do anything if your opponents choose to watch said stream. Do you really think streamers are going to stop streaming their games (forgoing that income) just so that they can have 'fair' ladder games ? Come on. MMR doesn't pay bills. Stream income does. Fame and team recognition, sponsorships, coaching income, all the things that go along with getting yourself known by streaming your games, does pay the bills.
Streamers are acceptable with people stream sniping/cheating on them. Likewise they have no problem labelling all of them as cheaters, snipers included. That is inc's point. No streamer realistically believes that they should never be sniped or cheated upon while streaming.
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You're essentially a 5 year old vying for attention. I can tell because anyone with self respect will play games to play games. If they get caught in a game with someone e-famous, cool, if not, no one gives a f**k. Going out of your way to play someone (when you would have other wise played someone of the same relative skill) is just immature.
Nothing wrong with that. But honestly it's all too easy to accuse someone of stream cheating if they're already stream sniping.
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On November 16 2011 11:14 VectorCereal wrote:
Hello everyone,
I like to annoy people by continuously sniping them on the ladder while also shamelessly plugging myself and talking to their stream chat while in-game. I limit the range of opponents they can face and ultimately lower the player variance they can expect. I also limit their practice to one race. I put myself in the exact same group as avid cheaters, hackers and general assholes and then get annoyed when the person I am sniping groups me with them. Hear my complaints!
Seriously?
well said^^
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@Kaitlin, sure there's a risk that going public means you expose yourself to community parasites (cheaters, hackers, attention whores, snipers), but that doesn't mean we should give parasites any safe harbor. Snipers make the stream worse for the streamer and thousands of viewers. There's no reason to treat them like anything other than vermin.
1. Streams are good for progaming, the SC2 community, and helps communicate the state of the metagame
2. Viewers want to see great players stream
3. Players want good fair games to showcase their skills against other well-matched players
4. Snipers undermine all of this by creating sub par matches (where the effort required to cheat is trivial), and as a community we need to reject this behavior
5. Any of a streamer's potential counters to deal with cheaters (not streaming, delays) hurt the viewers and the community more than the snipers
Rules/laws exist because even though 90% of people do the right thing without some explicit penalty, you'll always have the remaining assholes who ruin it for everyone else. The penalty for sniping is ostracism. OP, deal with the stigma or stop the dodgy behavior.
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On November 16 2011 12:09 Kaitlin wrote:
I think streaming games of Starcraft 2 is equivalent to playing poker with your cards in front of you, face up, for all to see.
I disagree. Laying down your poker cards in front of you allows every player to see if they just sit there and do nothing. Stream Cheating/stream sniping would involve someone actively trying to find your stream.
A correct analogy involving poker would be a player holding his cards in a way that players cant see them if they just play normally, but they can easily see them if they try to (ie. lean over, look at the reflection in the players glasses, stand behind the player, etc.)
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im sorry but for me harstem is not even in the same bunch as deezer/combatex or anyone of those obnoxious stream cheating abusing scum bags. your calling into question his honor and integrity when you basically dont know the guy. hes pretty well respected in EU afaik outside of his obvious beef with beastyqt. your super generalising and using him as an expample when hes clearly one of the few exceptions to your rule/thoughts on stream sniping/cheating
go fucking lynch somebody else incontrol you wanker.
As for the rest of you speculating/semantic loving forum authorities. the guy is a good kid and thats that
enjoy the parity in arrogance.
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On November 16 2011 11:04 hkf wrote:
Put a delay on your stream, wow how hard problem solved.
This statement irritates me more than anything. How am I going to run commercials when the stream is delayed? Set a timer on my watch that will let me know when its ok to run a commercial, alt tab to my chat, and type /commercial then go back to gaming? No lol.
Stream sniping is fine, I see nothing wrong with it. Tired of playing him over and over? The beat him again, and again, and again.
Stream cheating with stream sniping is obviously not. It's near impossible to win and quite irritating >< .
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On November 16 2011 15:17 coL.Minigun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 11:04 hkf wrote:
Put a delay on your stream, wow how hard problem solved. This statement irritates me more than anything. How am I going to run commercials when the stream is delayed? Set a timer on my watch that will let me know when its ok to run a commercial, alt tab to my chat, and type /commercial then go back to gaming? No lol. Stream sniping is fine, I see nothing wrong with it. Tired of playing him over and over? The beat him again, and again, and again. Stream cheating with stream sniping is obviously not. It's near impossible to win and quite irritating >< .
I agree with your expression of frustration. Countering the griefers just hurts the streamer and their viewers.
If you beat the sniper enough, they may get desperate enough to leave your stream up next time they snipe. It's a very slippery slope, and rewarding for the sniper to "save face" after several ugly losses. Sniping make full-on cheating easy, and there's no good way to distinguish snipers from cheaters. There might be "honorable" snipers out there, but the activity puts their reputation at risk.
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What gives you more right than any other player to be playing a pro with thousands of viewers? Are you more entitled because you are able to watch the pro's stream and time when they queue so you can match-up with them? Sure, you claim you only snipe them once a day, but then how are you supposed to draw the limit on how many snipes per day is acceptable? You can't without being very subjective about it. So I am against stream sniping.
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On November 16 2011 14:58 aFganFlyTrap wrote:
im sorry but for me harstem is not even in the same bunch as deezer/combatex or anyone of those obnoxious stream cheating abusing scum bags. your calling into question his honor and integrity when you basically dont know the guy. hes pretty well respected in EU afaik outside of his obvious beef with beastyqt. your super generalising and using him as an expample when hes clearly one of the few exceptions to your rule/thoughts on stream sniping/cheating
go fucking lynch somebody else incontrol you wanker.
As for the rest of you speculating/semantic loving forum authorities. the guy is a good kid and thats that
enjoy the parity in arrogance.
There's no lynching here. The OP started this thread to encourage discussion about stream sniping vs cheating. What most people have said is that it's hard to tell the difference, and it's easy for sniping to turn into cheating, and anyway it's kind of lame.
It's not about arrogance, or a sense of superiority, or a need to put a particular person down. It's about encouraging fair play that's fun to watch.
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On November 16 2011 09:13 TheCreature wrote:
You are incredibly ignorant. Yes it's ok to snipe somebody once, but don't fucking keep doing it. What I saw you doing is sniping incontrol today over and over. It's annoying playing the same person all the freaking time. Stream cheating and stream sniping can be just as annoying to a streamer. I understand you're trying to get publicity, but you're not getting good publicity. Everyone thinks you're just the annoying fucking wanna be stream sniper. Is that the type of publicity you want? I guess if you want to be known as that annoying stream sniper that's cool. But there are already hundreds of other people that do that so you're not special or original.
Hi TheCreature,
Please stop spreading lies, as I sniped him once and not over and over again. And no I dont wanna be known as the annoying stream sniper, but as the stream sniper who actually winst the majority of his games
On November 16 2011 13:56 Silentenigma wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 11:14 VectorCereal wrote:
Hello everyone,
I like to annoy people by continuously sniping them on the ladder while also shamelessly plugging myself and talking to their stream chat while in-game. I limit the range of opponents they can face and ultimately lower the player variance they can expect. I also limit their practice to one race. I put myself in the exact same group as avid cheaters, hackers and general assholes and then get annoyed when the person I am sniping groups me with them. Hear my complaints!
Seriously? well said^^
Hi VectorCereal,
as I stated numerous times in this thread already I only snipe people once. If I get matched with them again after that game, you can't blame me for it, but you should blame the system.
On November 16 2011 11:01 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 10:47 Kaitlin wrote:On November 16 2011 10:17 Satire wrote:On November 16 2011 09:30 Kaitlin wrote:
Sometimes I wonder what's wrong with stream "cheating". They aren't hacking. Their opponent is telling the world exactly what they are doing because they have made a decision that it's worth it because they make money from having viewers. That's the decision made by the streamer. Isn't it kind of weak to call your opponent a cheater when you are the one telling them exactly what you are doing ? If your argument is that stream cheating should be an assumed risk, I would agree with you to some extent; however, it appears that your argument is based only on a financial platform. Are you saying that it would be "okay" if someone streamed with no personal gain in mind? Following your logic, it's okay for someone to steal from a store with a poorly designed layout, simply because that is an assumed risk for opening a publicly accessible store with poor security conditions. While parameters of a situation change ethical debates frequently (think: stealing medication to save a life of another) I don't believe we're going to find such a beneficent set of circumstances occuring in stream cheating. So your debate shouldn't be about assumed risk or the parameters of the situation, it should be able whether cheating is acceptable or not. I guess in your case it's okay. I can't argue with that opinion, but I think it's unfair to place responsibility on the streamers. The only reason I mentioned the financial aspect is the assumption that the streamer has made a decision to stream, even though that would open them up to stream "cheating", but they go ahead anyways because it's a tradeoff for them. Comparing this to stealing meds to save someone's life or TB's parked car is a bit over the top, don't you think ? These are ladder matches in a video game. It's not like they are streaming their MLG matches to their opponents. I see this as akin to playing poker with your opponent placing his cards face up in front of him. Are you cheating to look at his cards ? I say no. It's just really stupid for you opponent to do that in poker because what is the benefit ? Same thing with Starcraft, except the opponent does benefit by streaming games to the public. Whether it's fame, money, ego, whatever. They make that decision to do it. I don't see the top pros streaming their practice sessions where they are working on secret builds, do you ? Why not ? Because they don't wish to "assume the risk" that people learn what they are doing. I think the whole idea of getting upset over people stream "cheating" mere ladder games is a bit silly. For the record, I've never stream "sniped", "cheated", etc., as even if I tried, I'm not high enough to match against anybody important. You missed the main analogy that he was referring to. "Stealing meds" was an aside that doesnt really need focusing on, the main analogy that you should have addressed as: Show nested quote +Following your logic, it's okay for someone to steal from a store with a poorly designed layout, simply because that is an assumed risk for opening a publicly accessible store with poor security conditions. Perhaps stealing is still too harsh of a comparison for you since it involves literally taking from someone else. A better example, then, would be: Following your logic, it's ok for someone to stalk (or constantly harass with phone calls would be closer to the idea of stream sniping) a girl simply because it is an assumed risk of walking around in public for everyone to see, looking as sexy as she does. I dont care about an occasional stream snipe. Using the example above, of course that girls gonna get hit on by some guys if she goes to a bar. However, constant harassment of a pro streamer should be looked down upon just as constant harassment of a girl could land you a restraining order.
Dear sir,
I do not constantly harras people and only snipe them once. So I feel like this is a little bit different.
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On November 16 2011 15:47 Harstem wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 09:13 TheCreature wrote:
You are incredibly ignorant. Yes it's ok to snipe somebody once, but don't fucking keep doing it. What I saw you doing is sniping incontrol today over and over. It's annoying playing the same person all the freaking time. Stream cheating and stream sniping can be just as annoying to a streamer. I understand you're trying to get publicity, but you're not getting good publicity. Everyone thinks you're just the annoying fucking wanna be stream sniper. Is that the type of publicity you want? I guess if you want to be known as that annoying stream sniper that's cool. But there are already hundreds of other people that do that so you're not special or original. Hi TheCreature, Please stop spreading lies, as I sniped him once and not over and over again. And no I dont wanna be known as the annoying stream sniper, but as the stream sniper who actually winst the majority of his games
nobody cares about you.
people don't want to play you over and over gain because you know how to abuse the ladder mechanic.
get a life and grow up.
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I ♥ stream-sniping and watching the VOD after the game -- helps you learn how your opponents think and feel
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Community hates on stream sniper because they most likely know of at least one sniper that cheats.
Stream sniper hates on community because he knows of at least one sniper that doesn't.
Use your head.
Edit: I'm not quite sure why Blizzard allows the people like combat-ex to continue playing their game. He blatantly cheats. And imo all people intentionally trying to abuse the ladder system (yeah, stream sniping is abuse) should be banned, especially the arrogant ones that go on forums bragging about it while looking for sympathy.
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On November 16 2011 15:51 freetgy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 15:47 Harstem wrote:On November 16 2011 09:13 TheCreature wrote:
You are incredibly ignorant. Yes it's ok to snipe somebody once, but don't fucking keep doing it. What I saw you doing is sniping incontrol today over and over. It's annoying playing the same person all the freaking time. Stream cheating and stream sniping can be just as annoying to a streamer. I understand you're trying to get publicity, but you're not getting good publicity. Everyone thinks you're just the annoying fucking wanna be stream sniper. Is that the type of publicity you want? I guess if you want to be known as that annoying stream sniper that's cool. But there are already hundreds of other people that do that so you're not special or original. Hi TheCreature, Please stop spreading lies, as I sniped him once and not over and over again. And no I dont wanna be known as the annoying stream sniper, but as the stream sniper who actually winst the majority of his games nobody cares about you. people don't want to play you over and over gain because you know how to abuse the ladder mechanic. get a life and grow up.
Hi Freetgy,
Did you actually read what you quoted? I clearly say that I snipe people only once and you are talking about people playing me over and over again.
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Hey Harstem,
I totally get the point youre trying to convey in making this thread. Of course stream sniping is not stream cheating. Stream sniping involves just trying to get matched up against a certain guy, stream cheating involves using their stream for what can basically be described as maphacks. Of course, I do believe you that you only stream snipe them once to avoid harassing them, which is even less of a problem.
However, Im sure some others have touched upon this earlier in the thread but you should be able to understand why people dont trust you. I dont know how many stream snipers also stream cheat, but even if its only a couple (I doubt its only just a couple) those guys are such a persistent and frustrating group for famous streamers that its easy to attribute people who snipe to people who cheat. You can never tell 100%, but given that a majority of the snipers they play against probably do cheat (or at least the cheaters make a big enough impression to make it seem that way) and given that it really makes their streaming experience so much worse, you should just let them vent.
Theres also just that other tinge of annoyance i get regarding what you said here in the OP:
On November 16 2011 06:41 Harstem wrote:
Instead of playing versus average joe you are playing versus Incontrol, Idra, Kas, HuK etc. Unfortunately not all streamers can appreciate it and sometimes they even falsely accuse you of stream-cheating. This is the opposite of what you want, because when I stream snipe I do this to get free good publicity while playing versus extremely good players. The feeling of winning while your opponent is having 5000+ viewers is really hard to describe, but it feels damn good.
To me its kinda reminds me of when you find out your neighbor is connecting to your wireless router. It makes performance a little worse and makes you wonder, "Yeesh dude, why dont you just get your own damn internet instead of bumming off of mine?" Stream sniping just to get your free good publicity and beating players in front of their own fans for a temporary high seems a little selfish. I mean, these players worked their asses off for their status. I know that you might not have the time to become a progamer like them, but that doesnt make mooching off of their fame ok in my opinion.
Another example that I think of when I read your OP is a streaker at a sports game or something. Some people dont mind or even think its funny, but im there to see the sports game. I really dont want to see some old dudes dick flopping around just because he wants some attention. Parents sure as hell dont like the fact that their kids might see that shit. I dunno, its just my philosophy that even if you want to do something, if you think someone might be directly harmed by your actions you shouldnt go through with it. If you want to become a progamer, then do it the conventional way (through streaming, playing well, and going to tournaments). If you just want your 15 seconds of fame, go ahead and do your thing but try not to annoy others while doing so.
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On November 16 2011 16:06 Supamang wrote:
If you just want your 15 seconds of fame, go ahead and do your thing but try not to annoy others while doing so.
Tell that to 99% of Hollywood.
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On November 16 2011 13:05 Seiuchi wrote:
If you're watching the stream to set up a game there's no reason to believe that you're turning it off other than the fact you say you're such an upstanding citizen. Don't be surprised when people assume you cheat.
PLUS FRIGGIN 1. So very true, how does anyone actually know that you're turning the stream off after the match is found.
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EPT
