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On November 08 2011 06:20 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 06:16 Sabu113 wrote:On November 08 2011 04:33 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:23 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2011 04:19 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:11 hellohilo wrote:
It's interesting that pro tosses (yuk yuk yuk) are having so much difficulty recently, especially with some of the recent metagame shifts that have occurred (mainly the use of immortals way more). I feel like it may take a new "innovator" to redefine the metagame and bring toss back to prominence, kind of like MC first did with his void ray play way back when in GSL3. Hello, please tell me why there having trouble "recently" I wanna know. This graph proves nothing at all. Look at tournaments "the only thing that matters" protoss players are winning and taking 2nd in almost every tournament. Please tell me what Terran does outside of Code S. Please???? I really wanna know why all of you think Terran is Imba...because you never been so wrong. Like the arguments on balance are literally a joke anymore. They don't have a reason why they think terran is imba. Toss and zerg are dominating on ladder (you know, the place where all these whiners play), and tourneys (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues) get dominated by zergs. People just love to think that their race is UP and that other races are OP. This way they win because of their awesomeness, and lose because of imbalance  . The only place where we see terrans dominating is GSL CODE S, and that's the only argument they have. Don't expect some other argument because there is not a single one. After this emp nerf tvp lategame will be even a bigger joke. Someone who is actually smart????!?!?!!?!?!? Is this real life?!?!??!??! @ Vash and Snow. Why don't you want to see a balanced game? We want? I showed you grandmaster ladder stats AND I showed the tournament page. Both indicate a balanced game. The only thing you guys use is "GSL CODE S is full of terrans". Meanwhile terran is getting nerfed and alot of people claim more nerfs. This is just sad imo. When I show ladder stats I get the response: "ladder is not important, tournaments are". When I show tournament stats I get the response: "but GSL code S is full of terrans". Take a look at the tournament stat page, then take a look at the graph, and notice how something is fishy about it.
All your grandmaster stats have accomplished is disprove the whole "more good players play Terran" argument.
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On November 08 2011 06:17 Rantech wrote:
Upload the korean games please.
edit: i mean the graph, ofc.
No, don't upload it.
People usually want the Korean one because they feel the international one doesn't look imba enough for their claim (because, be serious, are all the terrible whine posts in this thread are really justified by the 53.4% TvP winrate ? LOL. I read the first page of this thread, then re-watch the graph, then re-read the first page...and then I don't understand where I am), but then the Korean one is released, it's even less imba, and people who asked for the Korean one will turn and say "LOL SAMPLE SIZE THIS MEAN NOTHING".
So either the korean graph is more balanced and it means nothing.
Or the korean graph is less balanced and it feeds the imba cry.
Lose lose situation.
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On November 08 2011 06:24 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 06:20 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2011 06:16 Sabu113 wrote:On November 08 2011 04:33 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:23 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2011 04:19 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:11 hellohilo wrote:
It's interesting that pro tosses (yuk yuk yuk) are having so much difficulty recently, especially with some of the recent metagame shifts that have occurred (mainly the use of immortals way more). I feel like it may take a new "innovator" to redefine the metagame and bring toss back to prominence, kind of like MC first did with his void ray play way back when in GSL3. Hello, please tell me why there having trouble "recently" I wanna know. This graph proves nothing at all. Look at tournaments "the only thing that matters" protoss players are winning and taking 2nd in almost every tournament. Please tell me what Terran does outside of Code S. Please???? I really wanna know why all of you think Terran is Imba...because you never been so wrong. Like the arguments on balance are literally a joke anymore. They don't have a reason why they think terran is imba. Toss and zerg are dominating on ladder (you know, the place where all these whiners play), and tourneys (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues) get dominated by zergs. People just love to think that their race is UP and that other races are OP. This way they win because of their awesomeness, and lose because of imbalance . The only place where we see terrans dominating is GSL CODE S, and that's the only argument they have. Don't expect some other argument because there is not a single one. After this emp nerf tvp lategame will be even a bigger joke. Someone who is actually smart????!?!?!!?!?!? Is this real life?!?!??!??! @ Vash and Snow. Why don't you want to see a balanced game? We want? I showed you grandmaster ladder stats AND I showed the tournament page. Both indicate a balanced game. The only thing you guys use is "GSL CODE S is full of terrans". Meanwhile terran is getting nerfed and alot of people claim more nerfs. This is just sad imo. When I show ladder stats I get the response: "ladder is not important, tournaments are". When I show tournament stats I get the response: "but GSL code S is full of terrans". Take a look at the tournament stat page, then take a look at the graph, and notice how something is fishy about it. All your grandmaster stats have accomplished is disprove the whole "more good players play Terran" argument.
I never said that the high population of terrans in code S is due more good players playing terran. Code S is the only place with such a high population of terrans, and I think it's sad to conclude imbalance from that. Isn't it the GSL format that makes terrans stay in code S?
I don't understand why so few people agree with this. You guys all conclude imbalance from code S GSL. Ladder and any other tournament show the opposite, but everybody seems to ignore this. The only thing I read is "MORE TERRAN NERFS" and "TERRAN IS IMBA".
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
I can't see the graph, my internet won't connect to it for some reason, could someone write down the stats for the 3 matchups? Thanks.
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On November 08 2011 06:30 MCDayC wrote:
I can't see the graph, my internet won't connect to it for some reason, could someone write down the stats for the 3 matchups? Thanks.
TvP 53.9%
TvZ 52%
ZvP 56.3%
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On November 08 2011 05:06 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 04:19 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:11 hellohilo wrote:
It's interesting that pro tosses (yuk yuk yuk) are having so much difficulty recently, especially with some of the recent metagame shifts that have occurred (mainly the use of immortals way more). I feel like it may take a new "innovator" to redefine the metagame and bring toss back to prominence, kind of like MC first did with his void ray play way back when in GSL3. Hello, please tell me why there having trouble "recently" I wanna know. This graph proves nothing at all. Look at tournaments "the only thing that matters" protoss players are winning and taking 2nd in almost every tournament. Please tell me what Terran does outside of Code S. Please???? I really wanna know why all of you think Terran is Imba...because you never been so wrong. Like the arguments on balance are literally a joke anymore. ok, i'll bite. well firstly, toss doesn't take 1st and 2nd in almost every international tournament, and secondly, the only reason people like huk and mc were at the finals was because they were way better than anyone else there. so am i allowed to make the same argument terran players do or is not not allowed? "the protoss were just better than everyone else there"
Hokay buddy go look at recent tourneys then come back please. But terrans aren't better...only 3 of them are. Bomber, MvP, and MMA. There REALLY good at this game. The only reason other terrans are in code s is because it's almost impossible to drop out. Terran was good a long time ago when mech was starting to come around...now the games pretty balance. Everyone just ignores other tournaments so they can QQ more here on the forums and use the same excuses over and over again. All of your arguments make no sense what so ever. Do some homework next time before making such a biased post.
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On November 08 2011 05:06 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 04:19 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:11 hellohilo wrote:
It's interesting that pro tosses (yuk yuk yuk) are having so much difficulty recently, especially with some of the recent metagame shifts that have occurred (mainly the use of immortals way more). I feel like it may take a new "innovator" to redefine the metagame and bring toss back to prominence, kind of like MC first did with his void ray play way back when in GSL3. Hello, please tell me why there having trouble "recently" I wanna know. This graph proves nothing at all. Look at tournaments "the only thing that matters" protoss players are winning and taking 2nd in almost every tournament. Please tell me what Terran does outside of Code S. Please???? I really wanna know why all of you think Terran is Imba...because you never been so wrong. Like the arguments on balance are literally a joke anymore. ok, i'll bite. well firstly, toss doesn't take 1st and 2nd in almost every international tournament, and secondly, the only reason people like huk and mc were at the finals was because they were way better than anyone else there. so am i allowed to make the same argument terran players do or is not not allowed? "the protoss were just better than everyone else there"
But of course it's allowed ! It's also encouraged.
Because the moment you realize that is the moment you realize that usually, it's the better player who wins ! Amazing, isn't it ? A new world to explore for imbacrypeople xD
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On November 08 2011 06:43 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 05:06 Silidons wrote:On November 08 2011 04:19 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:11 hellohilo wrote:
It's interesting that pro tosses (yuk yuk yuk) are having so much difficulty recently, especially with some of the recent metagame shifts that have occurred (mainly the use of immortals way more). I feel like it may take a new "innovator" to redefine the metagame and bring toss back to prominence, kind of like MC first did with his void ray play way back when in GSL3. Hello, please tell me why there having trouble "recently" I wanna know. This graph proves nothing at all. Look at tournaments "the only thing that matters" protoss players are winning and taking 2nd in almost every tournament. Please tell me what Terran does outside of Code S. Please???? I really wanna know why all of you think Terran is Imba...because you never been so wrong. Like the arguments on balance are literally a joke anymore. ok, i'll bite. well firstly, toss doesn't take 1st and 2nd in almost every international tournament, and secondly, the only reason people like huk and mc were at the finals was because they were way better than anyone else there. so am i allowed to make the same argument terran players do or is not not allowed? "the protoss were just better than everyone else there" But of course it's allowed ! It's also encouraged. Because the moment you realize that is the moment you realize that usually, it's the better player who wins ! Amazing, isn't it ? A new world to explore for imbacrypeople xD
Nobody can grasp this on TL forums. They all want there wins handed to them with A-moves when the EMP gets nerfed. Protoss will be back to there a move tactics. I promise
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On November 08 2011 05:06 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 04:19 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:11 hellohilo wrote:
It's interesting that pro tosses (yuk yuk yuk) are having so much difficulty recently, especially with some of the recent metagame shifts that have occurred (mainly the use of immortals way more). I feel like it may take a new "innovator" to redefine the metagame and bring toss back to prominence, kind of like MC first did with his void ray play way back when in GSL3. Hello, please tell me why there having trouble "recently" I wanna know. This graph proves nothing at all. Look at tournaments "the only thing that matters" protoss players are winning and taking 2nd in almost every tournament. Please tell me what Terran does outside of Code S. Please???? I really wanna know why all of you think Terran is Imba...because you never been so wrong. Like the arguments on balance are literally a joke anymore. ok, i'll bite. well firstly, toss doesn't take 1st and 2nd in almost every international tournament, and secondly, the only reason people like huk and mc were at the finals was because they were way better than anyone else there. so am i allowed to make the same argument terran players do or is not not allowed? "the protoss were just better than everyone else there"
not really safe to say huk and MC are WAY better than people like stc, alive, stephano, ret, sheth, idra, july, alive, artist, bomber, marineking, polt, puma, rain, inori, kiwikaki, sase, whitera, yadda yadda yadda
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On November 08 2011 06:48 Masq wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 05:06 Silidons wrote:On November 08 2011 04:19 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:11 hellohilo wrote:
It's interesting that pro tosses (yuk yuk yuk) are having so much difficulty recently, especially with some of the recent metagame shifts that have occurred (mainly the use of immortals way more). I feel like it may take a new "innovator" to redefine the metagame and bring toss back to prominence, kind of like MC first did with his void ray play way back when in GSL3. Hello, please tell me why there having trouble "recently" I wanna know. This graph proves nothing at all. Look at tournaments "the only thing that matters" protoss players are winning and taking 2nd in almost every tournament. Please tell me what Terran does outside of Code S. Please???? I really wanna know why all of you think Terran is Imba...because you never been so wrong. Like the arguments on balance are literally a joke anymore. ok, i'll bite. well firstly, toss doesn't take 1st and 2nd in almost every international tournament, and secondly, the only reason people like huk and mc were at the finals was because they were way better than anyone else there. so am i allowed to make the same argument terran players do or is not not allowed? "the protoss were just better than everyone else there" not really safe to say huk and MC are WAY better than people like stc, alive, stephano, ret, sheth, idra, july, alive, artist, bomber, marineking, polt, puma, rain, inori, kiwikaki, sase, whitera, yadda yadda yadda
Nope you're wrong there clearly more talented in everyway shape and form
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On November 08 2011 06:27 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 06:24 iamke55 wrote:On November 08 2011 06:20 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2011 06:16 Sabu113 wrote:On November 08 2011 04:33 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:23 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2011 04:19 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:11 hellohilo wrote:
It's interesting that pro tosses (yuk yuk yuk) are having so much difficulty recently, especially with some of the recent metagame shifts that have occurred (mainly the use of immortals way more). I feel like it may take a new "innovator" to redefine the metagame and bring toss back to prominence, kind of like MC first did with his void ray play way back when in GSL3. Hello, please tell me why there having trouble "recently" I wanna know. This graph proves nothing at all. Look at tournaments "the only thing that matters" protoss players are winning and taking 2nd in almost every tournament. Please tell me what Terran does outside of Code S. Please???? I really wanna know why all of you think Terran is Imba...because you never been so wrong. Like the arguments on balance are literally a joke anymore. They don't have a reason why they think terran is imba. Toss and zerg are dominating on ladder (you know, the place where all these whiners play), and tourneys (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues) get dominated by zergs. People just love to think that their race is UP and that other races are OP. This way they win because of their awesomeness, and lose because of imbalance . The only place where we see terrans dominating is GSL CODE S, and that's the only argument they have. Don't expect some other argument because there is not a single one. After this emp nerf tvp lategame will be even a bigger joke. Someone who is actually smart????!?!?!!?!?!? Is this real life?!?!??!??! @ Vash and Snow. Why don't you want to see a balanced game? We want? I showed you grandmaster ladder stats AND I showed the tournament page. Both indicate a balanced game. The only thing you guys use is "GSL CODE S is full of terrans". Meanwhile terran is getting nerfed and alot of people claim more nerfs. This is just sad imo. When I show ladder stats I get the response: "ladder is not important, tournaments are". When I show tournament stats I get the response: "but GSL code S is full of terrans". Take a look at the tournament stat page, then take a look at the graph, and notice how something is fishy about it. All your grandmaster stats have accomplished is disprove the whole "more good players play Terran" argument. I never said that the high population of terrans in code S is due more good players playing terran. Code S is the only place with such a high population of terrans, and I think it's sad to conclude imbalance from that. Isn't it the GSL format that makes terrans stay in code S? I don't understand why so few people agree with this. You guys all conclude imbalance from code S GSL. Ladder and any other tournament show the opposite, but everybody seems to ignore this. The only thing I read is "MORE TERRAN NERFS" and "TERRAN IS IMBA".
People agree but they are just afraid of getting flamed. Remember this forum has a lot more Protoss and Zerg players than Terran. We are the minority.
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On November 08 2011 04:23 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 04:19 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:11 hellohilo wrote:
It's interesting that pro tosses (yuk yuk yuk) are having so much difficulty recently, especially with some of the recent metagame shifts that have occurred (mainly the use of immortals way more). I feel like it may take a new "innovator" to redefine the metagame and bring toss back to prominence, kind of like MC first did with his void ray play way back when in GSL3. Hello, please tell me why there having trouble "recently" I wanna know. This graph proves nothing at all. Look at tournaments "the only thing that matters" protoss players are winning and taking 2nd in almost every tournament. Please tell me what Terran does outside of Code S. Please???? I really wanna know why all of you think Terran is Imba...because you never been so wrong. Like the arguments on balance are literally a joke anymore. They don't have a reason why they think terran is imba. Toss and zerg are dominating on ladder (you know, the place where all these whiners play), and tourneys (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues) get dominated by zergs. People just love to think that their race is UP and that other races are OP. This way they win because of their awesomeness, and lose because of imbalance . The only place where we see terrans dominating is GSL CODE S, and that's the only argument they have. Don't expect some other argument because there is not a single one. After this emp nerf tvp lategame will be even a bigger joke.
You made this entire speech on whiners to end with .... A WHINE ?
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I wonder if these numbers are normalized over race distribution or not. If they are provided "as is", there is frankly little to no merit to them
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On November 08 2011 06:24 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 06:20 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2011 06:16 Sabu113 wrote:On November 08 2011 04:33 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:23 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2011 04:19 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:11 hellohilo wrote:
It's interesting that pro tosses (yuk yuk yuk) are having so much difficulty recently, especially with some of the recent metagame shifts that have occurred (mainly the use of immortals way more). I feel like it may take a new "innovator" to redefine the metagame and bring toss back to prominence, kind of like MC first did with his void ray play way back when in GSL3. Hello, please tell me why there having trouble "recently" I wanna know. This graph proves nothing at all. Look at tournaments "the only thing that matters" protoss players are winning and taking 2nd in almost every tournament. Please tell me what Terran does outside of Code S. Please???? I really wanna know why all of you think Terran is Imba...because you never been so wrong. Like the arguments on balance are literally a joke anymore. They don't have a reason why they think terran is imba. Toss and zerg are dominating on ladder (you know, the place where all these whiners play), and tourneys (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues) get dominated by zergs. People just love to think that their race is UP and that other races are OP. This way they win because of their awesomeness, and lose because of imbalance . The only place where we see terrans dominating is GSL CODE S, and that's the only argument they have. Don't expect some other argument because there is not a single one. After this emp nerf tvp lategame will be even a bigger joke. Someone who is actually smart????!?!?!!?!?!? Is this real life?!?!??!??! @ Vash and Snow. Why don't you want to see a balanced game? We want? I showed you grandmaster ladder stats AND I showed the tournament page. Both indicate a balanced game. The only thing you guys use is "GSL CODE S is full of terrans". Meanwhile terran is getting nerfed and alot of people claim more nerfs. This is just sad imo. When I show ladder stats I get the response: "ladder is not important, tournaments are". When I show tournament stats I get the response: "but GSL code S is full of terrans". Take a look at the tournament stat page, then take a look at the graph, and notice how something is fishy about it. All your grandmaster stats have accomplished is disprove the whole "more good players play Terran" argument.
Not really. Korea grandmaster is the only place where Terran far out number Zerg and Protoss. It's exactly the opposite for NA and Europe.
Korea have 72 Terran to 48 zerg, EU 48 Terran to 84 Zerg, and NA 56 T to 64 Z, and EU
I wouldn't be surprised at all if Korean pros have more of a tendency to go Terran, possibly contributing to all the big names Terran players have fostered even since the BW to SC2 transition
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On November 08 2011 06:27 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 06:24 iamke55 wrote:On November 08 2011 06:20 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2011 06:16 Sabu113 wrote:On November 08 2011 04:33 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:23 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2011 04:19 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:11 hellohilo wrote:
It's interesting that pro tosses (yuk yuk yuk) are having so much difficulty recently, especially with some of the recent metagame shifts that have occurred (mainly the use of immortals way more). I feel like it may take a new "innovator" to redefine the metagame and bring toss back to prominence, kind of like MC first did with his void ray play way back when in GSL3. Hello, please tell me why there having trouble "recently" I wanna know. This graph proves nothing at all. Look at tournaments "the only thing that matters" protoss players are winning and taking 2nd in almost every tournament. Please tell me what Terran does outside of Code S. Please???? I really wanna know why all of you think Terran is Imba...because you never been so wrong. Like the arguments on balance are literally a joke anymore. They don't have a reason why they think terran is imba. Toss and zerg are dominating on ladder (you know, the place where all these whiners play), and tourneys (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues) get dominated by zergs. People just love to think that their race is UP and that other races are OP. This way they win because of their awesomeness, and lose because of imbalance . The only place where we see terrans dominating is GSL CODE S, and that's the only argument they have. Don't expect some other argument because there is not a single one. After this emp nerf tvp lategame will be even a bigger joke. Someone who is actually smart????!?!?!!?!?!? Is this real life?!?!??!??! @ Vash and Snow. Why don't you want to see a balanced game? We want? I showed you grandmaster ladder stats AND I showed the tournament page. Both indicate a balanced game. The only thing you guys use is "GSL CODE S is full of terrans". Meanwhile terran is getting nerfed and alot of people claim more nerfs. This is just sad imo. When I show ladder stats I get the response: "ladder is not important, tournaments are". When I show tournament stats I get the response: "but GSL code S is full of terrans". Take a look at the tournament stat page, then take a look at the graph, and notice how something is fishy about it. All your grandmaster stats have accomplished is disprove the whole "more good players play Terran" argument. I never said that the high population of terrans in code S is due more good players playing terran. Code S is the only place with such a high population of terrans, and I think it's sad to conclude imbalance from that. Isn't it the GSL format that makes terrans stay in code S? I don't understand why so few people agree with this. You guys all conclude imbalance from code S GSL. Ladder and any other tournament show the opposite, but everybody seems to ignore this. The only thing I read is "MORE TERRAN NERFS" and "TERRAN IS IMBA".
I have not seen any of these stats that show the opposite. The ladder is also a bad place to for stats, since it is build to give everyone a 50/50 win ratio. From my understanding Korea is a bad land for protoss and a grand land for terran. Korea is pretty much accepted that is the place with the highest level of play. Even pros like PainUser, EGDeMusliM and MVP have been quoted there are some parts of terran that are slightly over powered.
Its a bummer if your having a rough time and your race may be nerfed, no one cared when I was getting rolled as a Protoss and they increased the time on Warpgate.
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On November 08 2011 07:17 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 06:24 iamke55 wrote:On November 08 2011 06:20 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2011 06:16 Sabu113 wrote:On November 08 2011 04:33 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:23 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2011 04:19 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:11 hellohilo wrote:
It's interesting that pro tosses (yuk yuk yuk) are having so much difficulty recently, especially with some of the recent metagame shifts that have occurred (mainly the use of immortals way more). I feel like it may take a new "innovator" to redefine the metagame and bring toss back to prominence, kind of like MC first did with his void ray play way back when in GSL3. Hello, please tell me why there having trouble "recently" I wanna know. This graph proves nothing at all. Look at tournaments "the only thing that matters" protoss players are winning and taking 2nd in almost every tournament. Please tell me what Terran does outside of Code S. Please???? I really wanna know why all of you think Terran is Imba...because you never been so wrong. Like the arguments on balance are literally a joke anymore. They don't have a reason why they think terran is imba. Toss and zerg are dominating on ladder (you know, the place where all these whiners play), and tourneys (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues) get dominated by zergs. People just love to think that their race is UP and that other races are OP. This way they win because of their awesomeness, and lose because of imbalance . The only place where we see terrans dominating is GSL CODE S, and that's the only argument they have. Don't expect some other argument because there is not a single one. After this emp nerf tvp lategame will be even a bigger joke. Someone who is actually smart????!?!?!!?!?!? Is this real life?!?!??!??! @ Vash and Snow. Why don't you want to see a balanced game? We want? I showed you grandmaster ladder stats AND I showed the tournament page. Both indicate a balanced game. The only thing you guys use is "GSL CODE S is full of terrans". Meanwhile terran is getting nerfed and alot of people claim more nerfs. This is just sad imo. When I show ladder stats I get the response: "ladder is not important, tournaments are". When I show tournament stats I get the response: "but GSL code S is full of terrans". Take a look at the tournament stat page, then take a look at the graph, and notice how something is fishy about it. All your grandmaster stats have accomplished is disprove the whole "more good players play Terran" argument. Not really. Korea grandmaster is the only place where Terran far out number Zerg and Protoss. It's exactly the opposite for NA and Europe.
You are wrong!
Korea grandmaster:
- Protoss: 39.5% (75)
- Terran: 35.8% (68)
- Zerg: 24.2% (46)
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On November 08 2011 07:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 06:27 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2011 06:24 iamke55 wrote:On November 08 2011 06:20 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2011 06:16 Sabu113 wrote:On November 08 2011 04:33 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:23 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2011 04:19 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:11 hellohilo wrote:
It's interesting that pro tosses (yuk yuk yuk) are having so much difficulty recently, especially with some of the recent metagame shifts that have occurred (mainly the use of immortals way more). I feel like it may take a new "innovator" to redefine the metagame and bring toss back to prominence, kind of like MC first did with his void ray play way back when in GSL3. Hello, please tell me why there having trouble "recently" I wanna know. This graph proves nothing at all. Look at tournaments "the only thing that matters" protoss players are winning and taking 2nd in almost every tournament. Please tell me what Terran does outside of Code S. Please???? I really wanna know why all of you think Terran is Imba...because you never been so wrong. Like the arguments on balance are literally a joke anymore. They don't have a reason why they think terran is imba. Toss and zerg are dominating on ladder (you know, the place where all these whiners play), and tourneys (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues) get dominated by zergs. People just love to think that their race is UP and that other races are OP. This way they win because of their awesomeness, and lose because of imbalance . The only place where we see terrans dominating is GSL CODE S, and that's the only argument they have. Don't expect some other argument because there is not a single one. After this emp nerf tvp lategame will be even a bigger joke. Someone who is actually smart????!?!?!!?!?!? Is this real life?!?!??!??! @ Vash and Snow. Why don't you want to see a balanced game? We want? I showed you grandmaster ladder stats AND I showed the tournament page. Both indicate a balanced game. The only thing you guys use is "GSL CODE S is full of terrans". Meanwhile terran is getting nerfed and alot of people claim more nerfs. This is just sad imo. When I show ladder stats I get the response: "ladder is not important, tournaments are". When I show tournament stats I get the response: "but GSL code S is full of terrans". Take a look at the tournament stat page, then take a look at the graph, and notice how something is fishy about it. All your grandmaster stats have accomplished is disprove the whole "more good players play Terran" argument. I never said that the high population of terrans in code S is due more good players playing terran. Code S is the only place with such a high population of terrans, and I think it's sad to conclude imbalance from that. Isn't it the GSL format that makes terrans stay in code S? I don't understand why so few people agree with this. You guys all conclude imbalance from code S GSL. Ladder and any other tournament show the opposite, but everybody seems to ignore this. The only thing I read is "MORE TERRAN NERFS" and "TERRAN IS IMBA". I have not seen any of these stats that show the opposite. The ladder is also a bad place to for stats, since it is build to give everyone a 50/50 win ratio. From my understanding Korea is a bad land for protoss and a grand land for terran. Korea is pretty much accepted that is the place with the highest level of play. Even pros like PainUser, EGDeMusliM and MVP have been quoted there are some parts of terran that are slightly over powered. Its a bummer if your having a rough time and your race may be nerfed, no one cared when I was getting rolled as a Protoss and they increased the time on Warpgate.
The opposite is showed on sc2ranks (see ladder grandmaster stats) and on this page: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues
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On November 08 2011 07:22 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 07:17 iky43210 wrote:On November 08 2011 06:24 iamke55 wrote:On November 08 2011 06:20 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2011 06:16 Sabu113 wrote:On November 08 2011 04:33 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:23 Snowbear wrote:On November 08 2011 04:19 VPVash wrote:On November 08 2011 04:11 hellohilo wrote:
It's interesting that pro tosses (yuk yuk yuk) are having so much difficulty recently, especially with some of the recent metagame shifts that have occurred (mainly the use of immortals way more). I feel like it may take a new "innovator" to redefine the metagame and bring toss back to prominence, kind of like MC first did with his void ray play way back when in GSL3. Hello, please tell me why there having trouble "recently" I wanna know. This graph proves nothing at all. Look at tournaments "the only thing that matters" protoss players are winning and taking 2nd in almost every tournament. Please tell me what Terran does outside of Code S. Please???? I really wanna know why all of you think Terran is Imba...because you never been so wrong. Like the arguments on balance are literally a joke anymore. They don't have a reason why they think terran is imba. Toss and zerg are dominating on ladder (you know, the place where all these whiners play), and tourneys (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/individual-leagues) get dominated by zergs. People just love to think that their race is UP and that other races are OP. This way they win because of their awesomeness, and lose because of imbalance . The only place where we see terrans dominating is GSL CODE S, and that's the only argument they have. Don't expect some other argument because there is not a single one. After this emp nerf tvp lategame will be even a bigger joke. Someone who is actually smart????!?!?!!?!?!? Is this real life?!?!??!??! @ Vash and Snow. Why don't you want to see a balanced game? We want? I showed you grandmaster ladder stats AND I showed the tournament page. Both indicate a balanced game. The only thing you guys use is "GSL CODE S is full of terrans". Meanwhile terran is getting nerfed and alot of people claim more nerfs. This is just sad imo. When I show ladder stats I get the response: "ladder is not important, tournaments are". When I show tournament stats I get the response: "but GSL code S is full of terrans". Take a look at the tournament stat page, then take a look at the graph, and notice how something is fishy about it. All your grandmaster stats have accomplished is disprove the whole "more good players play Terran" argument. Not really. Korea grandmaster is the only place where Terran far out number Zerg and Protoss. It's exactly the opposite for NA and Europe. You are wrong! Korea grandmaster: - Protoss: 39.5% (75) - Terran: 35.8% (68) - Zerg: 24.2% (46)
nvm, I wasn't checking Protoss.
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On November 07 2011 08:50 Firesilver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 08:48 Blade Fox wrote:
It's obvious.
Patch 1.3
High Templar
Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed.
Thats when protoss started losing every matchup. No, it really wasn't, that needed to be removed because of how strong it was, it's stupid to blame the recent down slope of P win % on that alone.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2514162
Read those patch notes. Compare to the bar graph. Look at the protoss winrate line slump PERFECTLY at the exact same time this patch came out. Which is march onwards.
The protoss race as others have said has little to no options with their units when you compare to the other races. If protoss aren't outnumbering the other race or laying absolutely perfect forcefields if they manage to dodge an EMP or a fungal they lose. Terrans units are all ranged and do huge damage, easily micro'd and their siege units like Vikings and Siege Tanks have no real counter in the protoss army OTHER THAN STORM.
Why do you think so many protoss do risky fast expand builds these days? They have to get ahead early and out macro their opponent if they want any chance of winning. There's no effective harass unit that's not easily countered by the other races to get ahead so the only way is to be very risky with your builds.
Tell me do you think Immortals counter siege tanks? In a bizarro world of tanks vs immortals and nothing else yes but that will never happen. The counter is actually splash damage on the terran bio ball then taking out their siege units afterward.
I'm amazed that people have the nerve to say khydarin amulet was broken when clearly if you looked at old infestors and ghosts to this day both have their +25 upgrade and top level players always get these upgrades. They pop out ready to do 1000+ damage to a protoss army with EMP and you call that balance? Templar are balanced with being the most squishy of casters on top of the most slowly moving.
It would be amusing if they took away EMP from ghosts as a skill then had to be researched and then on top of that removed mobius reactor. Then did the same with fungal to infestors. Believe me both races win rate would drop after that change.
Continue living in a bubble where everyone thinks protoss players are bad and not innovative when it's the absolutely bottom of the barrel race that has had multiple abilities removed from it that made it viable into the puddle of mud that gets stomped these days.
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EPT
