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Prize money in Starcraft 2 - Page 33

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Sabin010
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1892 Posts
October 31 2011 19:58 GMT
#641
This is pretty fucked up. With out a contract I don't even know what kind of legal ground the players have to stand on. The only thing we can do is stand up to these scumbags as a community, and only support the time tested tournament organizers who have proven trust worthy in the past.
padrin0
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom7 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 20:07:41
October 31 2011 20:00 GMT
#642
Tbh this has long been a problem in eSports ever since prizes - particularly cash prizes - were given away and its been consistent in all games, not just starcraft 2.

The Quake scene has had similar problems and its been like this for over a decade - surely this is one of the things that has to change!

I am still waiting for one prize some 6 years later... an AMD CPU that would have been pretty epic had I got it back at the time.. though of course that pales in insignificance compared to the thousands of dollars that some players rely upon as its their living - its pretty shameful and sad that its unique to eSports

I still know people who play professional Quake and I have heard them complaining - as recent as a month or so ago - of prize money taking a long time, in a lot of cases over a year which is pretty diabolical tbh.
nOondn
Profile Joined March 2011
564 Posts
October 31 2011 20:02 GMT
#643
disgusting as fuck ,this hurt e-sport
Mid Master Terran @ kr server fighting !!!
neo_sporin
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States516 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 20:06:02
October 31 2011 20:03 GMT
#644
On November 01 2011 03:47 Teiwaz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 03:42 fyndor wrote:
On November 01 2011 02:08 Joshy.IGN wrote:
IPL 2's grand final aired on August 14th, not even 90 days ago.


It amazes me that you think this is acceptable.


It amazes me that some people still don't get it that up to 90 days of waiting after the tourney finished is fucking usual...

Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 03:46 price wrote:
so those giant checks they give people on stage aren't real?


I lol'ed


Reminds me of Happy Gilmore

To paraphrase:
Happy: So when do i get paid?
Tournament rep: checks will be sent out in 6-8 weeks
Happy: no no no i need my money now, why cant i just have one of those big checks?

For the rest of the movie he is given the big checks even when he places 30th+

Edit: On topic a bit more, I agree with the 90 days from tournament AIRING number. Having worked in AP for a few months I know that having AP at 60-90 days is common in the US, additionally i go with the tournament airing date because a lot of revenue for the tournament comes from the airing.
HotGore
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada26 Posts
October 31 2011 20:05 GMT
#645
On November 01 2011 04:58 Sabin010 wrote:
This is pretty fucked up. With out a contract I don't even know what kind of legal ground the players have to stand on. The only thing we can do is stand up to these scumbags as a community, and only support the time tested tournament organizers who have proven trust worthy in the past.


It wouldn't be that hard. If they publicly announce a prize of X for 1st place, and they announce that you won first place I imagine that should be sufficient grounds for a law suit. Getting legal representation is another matter though.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
myRZeth
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany1047 Posts
October 31 2011 20:08 GMT
#646
even the esl isn t paying out.. that s really sick
ishboh
Profile Joined October 2010
United States954 Posts
October 31 2011 20:08 GMT
#647
On November 01 2011 05:05 HotGore wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 04:58 Sabin010 wrote:
This is pretty fucked up. With out a contract I don't even know what kind of legal ground the players have to stand on. The only thing we can do is stand up to these scumbags as a community, and only support the time tested tournament organizers who have proven trust worthy in the past.


It wouldn't be that hard. If they publicly announce a prize of X for 1st place, and they announce that you won first place I imagine that should be sufficient grounds for a law suit. Getting legal representation is another matter though.

agreed with this guy, even if there is no legal papers or agreement, having those two qualifications seems like it could at least qualify for some sort of quasi-contract. if they use your identity to gain viewership and advertise their tournament...you should probably have good means for a lawsuit.

It should be enough to threaten a lawsuit in most cases because the tournament organizers will probably rather pay out the prize than have to get lawyers themselves...
lowkontrast
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States855 Posts
October 31 2011 20:09 GMT
#648
Shouldn't team managers be handling this?

Don't get me wrong. It's ridiculous that the prize money even has to be asked for, but isn't this what team managers are for? So that the players can just focus on playing the game and improving?
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
October 31 2011 20:09 GMT
#649
Thinking that a lawsuit is worthwhile, when you're talking about so few digits and players from all over the world, is simply naive.
Thank God and gunrun.
D.Devil
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany227 Posts
October 31 2011 20:10 GMT
#650
On November 01 2011 04:41 Naniwa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 01:21 D.Devil wrote:
This isn't a recent problem but something that haunts esports since its early days. The CPL didn't ever pay some teams the prize money for events in 2002 and 2003 and still continued to live on for quite a while.

Nonetheless, even it might seem counter-intuitive at first, blacklists and publicly calling out organizations won't help anyone. Hosting a big event requires a lot of work, and the prize money is a rather small (yet important) aspect overall. So don't expect anyone to be there to just "replace" today's organizers if they are forced to quit. Even if they're at fault, there's no point in boycotting as it'll only make everyone wait longer or not receive any money at all. So it's not really coincidence that most teams prefer to be quiet as long as the organizers play fair (which the CPL ultimately didn't, so it was boycotted and forced to quit after all).



funny that you are talking since Your wc3 team Hoorai scammed me off 600 euros you piece of......

hi :o

You know very well that I didn't handle the payments at hoorai and it wasn't my responsibility to take care of that. Also we always treated -and paiid- you well. But anyway, that's many years ago (and certainly hoorai was far from perfect).. tbh I don't even remember if you're right, but it may very well be. In any case: I'm sorry, dude. I just don't see why you even bring this up now as I don't feel like it's related to my post. (and I believe calling me a piece of shit isn't the way to go.)

My point still stands: By creating blacklists and boycotting events, you only make things worse. This isn't the solution to this problem. Of course, something needs to be done about it, but I don't like that the majority of people here believes that you achieve that by punishing ESL, ESWC and others.
@larisyrota on Twitter
Fealthas
Profile Joined May 2011
607 Posts
October 31 2011 20:10 GMT
#651
This is really sad.
You guys should demand contracts promising to pay you if you win and sue if you dont get your money.
TheFear
Profile Joined July 2010
United States55 Posts
October 31 2011 20:10 GMT
#652
Pretty sad situation to say the least, my only experience related to this kind of issue is when WCG failed to send me a "High end gaming PC" that I won a drawing for. I attended and won the Ohio Wcg qualifier for wc3 and I could not make it to the finals in Cali that year due to circumstances beyond my control. In any case, the drawing was completely separate to my attendance, and despite following up several times by email to inquire I never received my prize. Was kind of disappointing at the time, especially since I could have definitely used a free computer upgrade, but in due time I just forgot about it and moved on.

Didn't realize how common this type of occurrence was/is. Hopefully the community comes up with some solid solutions to these sorts of issues soon. I could imagine that for monetary amounts that have been won it is even more tilting not to receive it.
"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell
G5
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States2921 Posts
October 31 2011 20:12 GMT
#653
this was common in broodwar as well, especially online tournaments. WGT~Stars still owes me $100 for example.... which I will never get for winning PET. You have to either chase them for forever to get it or will just get lied to for months and then never paid. WCG was probably the only exception. I always received a check from them fairly fast.
Vapaach
Profile Joined February 2011
Finland994 Posts
October 31 2011 20:12 GMT
#654
The way I see it, is that mostly ESL and some random small tournaments aren't paying on time/at all. It is obvious though that tournaments can't keep doing stuff like this. as their reputation crumbles very fast. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out.
If you never try you never know. Sase - Mana - TLO - WhiteRa - Naniwa - Sheth - HuK
Cruncharoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States136 Posts
October 31 2011 20:13 GMT
#655
On November 01 2011 05:10 D.Devil wrote:

My point still stands: By creating blacklists and boycotting events, you only make things worse. This isn't the solution to this problem. Of course, something needs to be done about it, but I don't like that the majority of people here believes that you achieve that by punishing ESL, ESWC and others.


I really fail to understand how boycotting a tournament that doesn't pay it's prizes is the wrong course of action. Either they start to pay their players in a timely manner that is agreed upon beforehand or people don't play their tournaments and continue to make them profits. Nothing will get an organizations attention quicker than threatening to take away their bottom line, in my opinion.
darkest44
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1009 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 20:18:07
October 31 2011 20:14 GMT
#656
Disgusting. These tournaments wouldn't even make any money without the players bringing in viewers, then they go and screw over said players?

This is criminal and unjust. They probably do it because they know a progamer can't really afford lawyers and bringing them to court over it where as they as an organization can. They probably just hope the players will give up eventually and they don't have to pay anything, I bet it's worked too. Shameful.
Mrvoodoochild1
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1439 Posts
October 31 2011 20:15 GMT
#657
On November 01 2011 05:10 Fealthas wrote:
This is really sad.
You guys should demand contracts promising to pay you if you win and sue if you dont get your money.

I don't think this is possible. For one, a tourney will simply not invite the players that would demand a contract. Secondly, the legal fees associated with writing a contract and taking an organization to court would far exceed the possible earnings of a tournament. The only plausible solution to combat this issue is to form some sort of players union and boycott tournaments that do not pay out.
"let your freak flag fly"
TideRoll
Profile Joined September 2011
United States106 Posts
October 31 2011 20:15 GMT
#658
If they can't pay on the spot they shouldn't be holding a tournament in my opinion. Ugh this is so disgusting to me. I'm enraged and it hasn't even happened to me! I don't think I could calmly post about it on TL lol, I'd be busy suing those organizations into oblivion.

Makes me think of that one commercial:
GiftPflanZe
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Germany623 Posts
October 31 2011 20:16 GMT
#659
This is just fucking sad.I lost respect for alot of tournaments now : /
...
Project Psycho
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom329 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 20:17:59
October 31 2011 20:17 GMT
#660
Just goes to show how loyal and forgiven these pro players are too, a lot of them havnt been paid for over a year for certain tournaments, yet its has taken this long for any of them to open there mouths about it. 30 days should be the maximum time these players should be getting paid and a feel it should be down to the teams mangers etc to arrange this with tournaments organizers, isnt that what they are there for?
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