EPT
Not a retarded one but still something like it.Prize money in Starcraft 2 - Page 31
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
Not a retarded one but still something like it. | ||
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fyndor
United States159 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:01 Teiwaz wrote: I'm sorry to come up with this but...what do you do for a living and how old are you? Seriously, promising money you don't have (yet) is how the fucking world economy works! You're right, that is how failing economies work. It is also how ponzi schemes work. | ||
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HotGore
Canada26 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:17 tetrismaan wrote: Why would a union for Starcraft players be bad? At the very least, teams should have managers sorting out all these problems for them instead of them having to worry themselves. An organisation like KeSPA would be great for Starcraft as well. Just like UEFA and FIFA for soccer, and all other organisations for every other sport. Typically union powers sprawl outward into more and more things. They might start out with the intent of solving a individual problem, but eventually they will wedge themselves into more and more things. I wouldn't want to see players bared from an event because the players union could not come to an agreement with the event. Also unions need to be funded by those they represent, mean less money for players and teams. Maybe there is something better that can be done, but any organization that represents all players and exert any kind of power over the scene will hurt it right now more than anything. Also it isn't like KeSPA has a perfect history. | ||
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Teiwaz
Austria158 Posts
Yes, and no  Actually more me as a non-native speaker making a stupid mistake - shit happens  | ||
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mDuo13
United States307 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:28 fyndor wrote: You're right, that is how failing economies work. It is also how ponzi schemes work. It's also how "booming" (read: bubble) economies work. In other words, it's how the world economy works all the time. It's only sometimes that it comes back to bite people (those times are usually called recessions). | ||
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svefnleysi
Iceland623 Posts
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Roynalf
Finland886 Posts
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AnonymousSC
United States24 Posts
It may not be the tournament it may be the sponsors in which case just don't allow any tournament to be sponsored by a company that hasn't paid prize money in the past. This would act as a deterrent for companies to attract the fame of a tournament without paying the money. Or a 3rd option could be to give Blizzard the money in advance so Blizzard could redistribute the money that way there would only be 1 spot to collect money from in large tournaments making the process simpler. Not sure if any of this stuff would actually work just giving my thoughts on what I think are all reasonable solutions. | ||
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D u o
Canada381 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:27 Roggay wrote: You don't fix it, or you set up a lot of regulations, that might end up killing a lot of tournaments. There is no perfect solution. Exactly. So whats the point of complaining. Sure tournaments should pay. But many tournaments haven't in the past. Its part of the risk of going to one. After that you can just out the tournament so that it gets negative reviews and no one actually attends the next one. | ||
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shaldengeki
United States104 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:28 fyndor wrote: You're right, that is how failing economies work. It is also how ponzi schemes work. I see the term "ponzi scheme" thrown around a lot these days with little to no understanding of what a Ponzi scheme actually is or how it's unique from a normal, healthy business that relies on credit to operate. In the case of a Ponzi scheme, you are deliberately and maliciously obscuring the fact that there is no source of income for your business other than the payments of your future clients. Specifically, you rely solely on the payments of your future clients to pay your past clients; as a result, you have to aggressively expand your client base indefinitely to remain solvent. This is not at all what we're talking about in the case of a Starcraft 2 tournament. It's entirely inapplicable. | ||
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Huge O
Great Britain95 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:31 AnonymousSC wrote: For large tournaments as defined by Blizzard of being $5,000 and up Blizzard should require prize money to be paid within 1-2 months or put a ban on them for a year. If they don't pay multiple times the tournament should just be permanently banned. It may not be the tournament it may be the sponsors in which case just don't allow any tournament to be sponsored by a company that hasn't paid prize money in the past. This would act as a deterrent for companies to attract the fame of a tournament without paying the money. Or a 3rd option could be to give Blizzard the money in advance so Blizzard could redistribute the money that way there would only be 1 spot to collect money from in large tournaments making the process simpler. Not sure if any of this stuff would actually work just giving my thoughts on what I think are all reasonable solutions. Could the incentive of the scheme be that in return, blizzard delivers a tournament specific LAN solution? | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:28 fyndor wrote: You're right, that is how failing economies work. It is also how ponzi schemes work. False. Promising money you don't yet have is how 1. Credit cards 2. Loans 3. Standard payroll 4. The US Fed (and every other central bank I believe) works. It's also worth noting that many export driven economies are currently healthy BECAUSE of tremendous government debt in import heavy economies (i.e. China owns a ton of US debt and is wealthier for it). The failing European economies are defaulting because their creditors no longer believe they can pay back their debt, not just because they have debt. And a ponzie scheme is when you promise money that you're going to get by promising money that you don't have. There's also nothing inherently wrong with a ponzie scheme. They're illegal in the US though because they tend to be parts of scams. | ||
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Teiwaz
Austria158 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:27 BroboCop wrote: wonder if there will be a good post from say Jason Lake or EGAlex about how the team deals with tournaments who dick over players. In the event there is, would be nice if it was stickied ^^. Indeed that would be very interesting. | ||
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Bonkerz
United States831 Posts
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HappyChris
1534 Posts
I think Stephano is on the right track take 1 year off and then gtfo of this Esport ponzi schemes that only benefit the sponsors and the tournament organisations and there owners. The average player who isnt Idra or Stephano/White-ra is simply being starved and screwed over. | ||
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Cheshyr
United States78 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:25 VillageBC wrote: Can I ask where team management is in this? It seems ridiculous that members of major teams (even smaller teams) have to worry about getting the prize payouts themselves. This should be up to their team to hunt down, threaten, harass and bludgeon payment out of the tournaments that rely on their players to attend. I completely agree. The problem with the idea of a "SC2 Tourney Governing Body" is that it has no power to punish violators. This is one of the primary reasons why teams are necessary; to withhold player attendance and publicity in association with the event when the event host is blacklisted. Also, to do legwork on new events prior to commitment, and to chase down accounts receivable. This paints an ugly picture for independents without a management staff to back them up. It's also an opportunity for competent agents to step up and support emerging talent. Sadly, this sounds very familiar. Does anyone have historical knowledge of an emerging sporting scene, and how they finally resolved this problem? SC2 can't be the first time this has happened. | ||
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fyndor
United States159 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:14 csn_JohnClark wrote: wow.. . I have been a business manager for a small company.. (25 employees).. but a company that makes 1 million+ a year in revenue. When we win contracts with the Government to do a job.... through a contractor (we being a sub contractor).. there are several factors at play. 1. We MUST fill out all paperwork properly or the process to be paid is delayed. 2. We do the job BEFORE we are paid and even before the contractor is paid. 3. Once the job is complete, we are expected to be paid according the agreements set in place.. most often times 90 days. 4. If a contractor has not been paid by the Government.. this will delay payment to our company. 5. There is NO guarantee that the contractor will pay us within 90 days. Many issues can arise that delay this process. 6. 99% of the time, we ARE Paid.. but it is not always easy and it can easily be our fault in some cases. Those that do not pay us... have legal action taken. Oddly enough..this entire process was put into place to HELP make sure contractors/sub contractors do get paid. There are so many regulations in place to protect the small business...but issues do come up and there are times when action must be taken. I believe that things will get better in gaming.. as they already have 10 fold.. but we must not jump the gun on the very organizations that are helping build esports. Those that do NOT pay at all.. and those with a poor track record of COMMUNICATION with the players should be exposed... but the overall expectations of how the business of esports works needs to be realistic. Quit equating govt work with Starcraft 2. They aren't even close to similar. | ||
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TissTuss
Sweden33 Posts
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Roynalf
Finland886 Posts
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Naniwa
Sweden477 Posts
On November 01 2011 01:21 D.Devil wrote: This isn't a recent problem but something that haunts esports since its early days. The CPL didn't ever pay some teams the prize money for events in 2002 and 2003 and still continued to live on for quite a while. Nonetheless, even it might seem counter-intuitive at first, blacklists and publicly calling out organizations won't help anyone. Hosting a big event requires a lot of work, and the prize money is a rather small (yet important) aspect overall. So don't expect anyone to be there to just "replace" today's organizers if they are forced to quit. Even if they're at fault, there's no point in boycotting as it'll only make everyone wait longer or not receive any money at all. So it's not really coincidence that most teams prefer to be quiet as long as the organizers play fair (which the CPL ultimately didn't, so it was boycotted and forced to quit after all). funny that you are talking since Your wc3 team Hoorai scammed me off 600 euros you piece of...... | ||
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