On October 29 2011 10:26 mustaju wrote: I'm a switch too. From following E-sports to not following E-sports.
If you were "following Esport" only for BW, then you were not rly following Esport, only BW.
No. BW was E-sports, it created E-sports, it was the only true E-sport for a long time. Lots of people like myself consider BW to be the unparalleled leader of E-sports and if the leader is going down, some people will leave.
On October 29 2011 10:31 Medrea wrote: I disagree with the mod note that SC2 is a "less difficult game".
Its pretty obvious that anything that makes it easier for you is also easier for your opponent. Come on.
Game could be fucking 4-square (game of kings), if I am playing against a 7 foot tall pro 4-square player it is going to be real rough, even though the entire game can be described in two sentences.
That's obviously not the point. With Tic-Tac-Toe, you're going to hit a skill ceiling so freaking fast because the game is so damn easy. He's saying that at the current moment, the skill ceiling is pretty low for SC2. Also, he's saying that SC2 is so much easier because it relies on the same fundamentals as BW, but has so many shortcuts and "easy buttons", like super-easymode-macro (grouping buildings), super-easymode-movement (1 hotkey for unlimited numbers of units), automining, etc. From a BW player's perspective, sure, the game is different, but at the end of the day many of the difficult things in BW were removed in SC2.
And don't pull that "strategy is more important in SC2" nonsense, because strategy in BW > SC2, because all pros have their macro/micro solid, and strategies have been developing for 10+ years in BW. SC2 may get there, but right now it's just a babe in the woods. Especially since it's got 2 more expansions to go.
On October 29 2011 10:31 Medrea wrote: I disagree with the mod note that SC2 is a "less difficult game".
Its pretty obvious that anything that makes it easier for you is also easier for your opponent. Come on.
Game could be fucking 4-square (game of kings), if I am playing against a 7 foot tall pro 4-square player it is going to be real rough, even though the entire game can be described in two sentences.
More difficult in this context almost certainly means more mechanically difficult. I don't think there is any question that Brood War is more mechanically difficult than Starcraft II.
On October 29 2011 10:36 Defury wrote: If anyone thinks SC2 has a low skill cap load up that AI bot that can micro and then try and kill anything of his.
Sc2 has a ceiling no human can reach and that is high enough.
Well both games have virtually not skill limit but honestly it doesn't matter anyway. As I keep saying "SC2 is an easier game" is meaningless because that makes it easier on your opponent as well....
Why the fuck do people keep making this really easy mistake?? Makes no sense.
On October 29 2011 10:31 Medrea wrote: I disagree with the mod note that SC2 is a "less difficult game".
Its pretty obvious that anything that makes it easier for you is also easier for your opponent. Come on.
Game could be fucking 4-square (game of kings), if I am playing against a 7 foot tall pro 4-square player it is going to be real rough, even though the entire game can be described in two sentences.
More difficult in this context almost certainly means more mechanically difficult. I don't think there is any question that Brood War is more mechanically difficult than Starcraft II.
Irrelevant. Any mechanic that needs to be mastered is canceled out by the fact that the other guy has to master it as well!
On October 29 2011 10:31 Medrea wrote: I disagree with the mod note that SC2 is a "less difficult game".
Its pretty obvious that anything that makes it easier for you is also easier for your opponent. Come on.
Game could be fucking 4-square (game of kings), if I am playing against a 7 foot tall pro 4-square player it is going to be real rough, even though the entire game can be described in two sentences.
to quote someone here who has made this example before, if i played a game of basketball against kobe bryant and the hoop size was doubled to make the game easier, obviously the game would be easier for both me and kobe. however the lowered difference in difficulty would be much larger for me, because kobe would probably be able to make the same shots if the hoop size were normal sized anyway. thus, even though kobe is a much superior basketball player, he would have a harder time differentiating himself from inferior players if the game were easier because he would not be able to fully show and utilize his true skill. this is why many bw fans dislike sc2. if flash or jd switched over to sc2, it would be a massive waste of their talents
On October 29 2011 10:36 Defury wrote: If anyone thinks SC2 has a low skill cap load up that AI bot that can micro and then try and kill anything of his.
Sc2 has a ceiling no human can reach and that is high enough.
On October 29 2011 10:14 insanet wrote: No, no ,no . This is bad news.
let me explain you, if BW players switch they are gonna increase the skill ceiling sooo much is gonna be hell for everybody else. Everybody will need to play 24/7 like BW players do and they are not used it to it and they are gonna become unhappy and fall back.
The amount of time foreigners put in the game are a joke compared with BW house factories, BW players are practice machines, you dont understand dont you?. ask BW gods what were doing christmas night? practicing. New year eve? practicing. Holidays? practicing, they get bored if they dont practice.
is gonna be hell for everybody else to keep up. so i encourage you to be against this! BW needs to live for SC2 to be enjoyable for the current players.
So you're insinuating that SC:BW wasn't hell to begin with? Your perception of things is so warped it's not even funny.
On October 29 2011 10:31 Medrea wrote: I disagree with the mod note that SC2 is a "less difficult game".
Its pretty obvious that anything that makes it easier for you is also easier for your opponent. Come on.
Game could be fucking 4-square (game of kings), if I am playing against a 7 foot tall pro 4-square player it is going to be real rough, even though the entire game can be described in two sentences.
to quote someone here who has made this example before, if i played a game of basketball against kobe bryant and the hoop size was doubled to make the game easier, obviously the game would be easier for both me and kobe. however the lowered difference in difficulty would be much larger for me, because kobe would probably be able to make the same shots if the hoop size were normal sized anyway. thus, even though kobe is a much superior basketball player, he would have a harder time differentiating himself from inferior players if the game were easier because he would not be able to fully show and utilize his true skill. this is why many bw fans dislike sc2. if flash or jd switched over to sc2, it would be a massive waste of their talents
Kobe Bryant would stuff your face full of basketball anytime you tried to shoot the ball so I think that analogy falls pretty flat.
When guys talk about low skill ceiling, they are talking about how players like Goody and Sjow can be competitive despite being mechanically handicapped.
On October 29 2011 10:36 Defury wrote: If anyone thinks SC2 has a low skill cap load up that AI bot that can micro and then try and kill anything of his.
Sc2 has a ceiling no human can reach and that is high enough.
On October 29 2011 10:45 Micket wrote: When guys talk about low skill ceiling, they are talking about how players like Goody and Sjow can be competitive despite being mechanically handicapped.
Neither are particularly competitive, though Sjow is on some rare occasions.
On October 29 2011 10:31 Medrea wrote: I disagree with the mod note that SC2 is a "less difficult game".
Its pretty obvious that anything that makes it easier for you is also easier for your opponent. Come on.
Game could be fucking 4-square (game of kings), if I am playing against a 7 foot tall pro 4-square player it is going to be real rough, even though the entire game can be described in two sentences.
to quote someone here who has made this example before, if i played a game of basketball against kobe bryant and the hoop size was doubled to make the game easier, obviously the game would be easier for both me and kobe. however the lowered difference in difficulty would be much larger for me, because kobe would probably be able to make the same shots if the hoop size were normal sized anyway. thus, even though kobe is a much superior basketball player, he would have a harder time differentiating himself from inferior players if the game were easier because he would not be able to fully show and utilize his true skill. this is why many bw fans dislike sc2. if flash or jd switched over to sc2, it would be a massive waste of their talents
Kobe Bryant would stuff your face full of basketball anytime you tried to shoot the ball so I think that analogy falls pretty flat.
I should also add that this is unless you are playing HORSE or something. Which is also irrelevant.
On October 29 2011 10:31 Medrea wrote: I disagree with the mod note that SC2 is a "less difficult game".
Its pretty obvious that anything that makes it easier for you is also easier for your opponent. Come on.
Game could be fucking 4-square (game of kings), if I am playing against a 7 foot tall pro 4-square player it is going to be real rough, even though the entire game can be described in two sentences.
to quote someone here who has made this example before, if i played a game of basketball against kobe bryant and the hoop size was doubled to make the game easier, obviously the game would be easier for both me and kobe. however the lowered difference in difficulty would be much larger for me, because kobe would probably be able to make the same shots if the hoop size were normal sized anyway. thus, even though kobe is a much superior basketball player, he would have a harder time differentiating himself from inferior players if the game were easier because he would not be able to fully show and utilize his true skill. this is why many bw fans dislike sc2. if flash or jd switched over to sc2, it would be a massive waste of their talents
Why won't Kobe just raise his percentage on even harder shots? Spin move, step back fade away from half court all day? Yes please
On October 29 2011 10:45 Micket wrote: When guys talk about low skill ceiling, they are talking about how players like Goody and Sjow can be competitive despite being mechanically handicapped.
That's mainly because everyone sucks at Sc2 right now, most high level players agree the game hasn't been figured out enough and that allows mediocre players to be competitive. Hell even Nestea/MvP are still bad at the game, relatively they are amazing but in reality they are still pretty bad but so is everyone else. They are just the best of the worst.
On October 29 2011 10:36 Defury wrote: If anyone thinks SC2 has a low skill cap load up that AI bot that can micro and then try and kill anything of his.
Sc2 has a ceiling no human can reach and that is high enough.
On October 29 2011 10:36 Defury wrote: If anyone thinks SC2 has a low skill cap load up that AI bot that can micro and then try and kill anything of his.
Sc2 has a ceiling no human can reach and that is high enough.
On October 29 2011 10:45 Micket wrote: When guys talk about low skill ceiling, they are talking about how players like Goody and Sjow can be competitive despite being mechanically handicapped.
but players like that dont beat MVP or would even come close ....
well actually who does beat him these days ? besides MMA who has tip top multitasking MVP has lost very very few games
its funny people act like MVP and Nestea lose all the time and there is no skill gap ....
it just so happens the best BW player who switched to SC2 is basically unbeatable.... if people don't think the big 3 will be even better they are crazy
I'm 100% certain that we are all playing the game wrong .... BW had pathing so units couldnt clump ... really we should be triying to replicate that every single time we micro ... but so far no one is good enough to do it .... Im really anxious to see what these BW pros can do
EPT
