EPTBW Teams playing Starcraft 2 - Page 73
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
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Herry
England681 Posts
Ive been a fan of STARCRAFT since i played the demo in 1999. I dont understand why people cant appreciate both Broodwar and Starcraft 2. they are of the same ilk. the same universe, the same Characters in the story archs, the same units for the most part, and you argue and fight like cats and dogs. Pretty sad. Personally, i am excited to see how the current legends of the game adapt their play to Starcraft 2 and if they end up playing it like the current pro's, or do they approach it much different? One question i have about Proleague, will the current SC2 teams be competing in it? (Slayers, OGS, IM etc.) or will it purely be the BW teams or a bit of both? Or don't we know yet? | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5775 Posts
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On October 29 2011 08:58 fabiano wrote: bisu said he would play P for fun, T for money. He did? Where? I do remember an interview where he complained about balance and Terran winning everything, but in the end he said he would probably play Protoss anyway. But oh well, I was looking for a reason to switch to Terran for a long time now. Considering Bisu is the reason I picked Protoss in the first place, I'm going to follow him anywhere. <3 | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On October 29 2011 07:32 ptrpb wrote: MVP / Nestea / MC (and Idra from the foreigners) are all ex-BW pros. He probably means the legends Boxer/July/Nada, but they were far beyond prime already in BW (and still doing very very well in SC2).Where's the option for "Will do alright but not be anything special?" Like after listening to FXO_Boss on F Slasher my idea kind of changed. When Slasher asked if there Boss knew anything about BW pros playing, Boss had said many of the BW pros had been playing for a while and were nothing special in most cases. Certainly, the poll is biased, feel free to not vote. I considered the option that BW players just won't adapt; not because of engine flaws in SC2. But if you go through the history of any of them, you'll see their strength is exactly adapting and developing, they weren't always that good. They are good at redefining skill in RTS. We'll see. Thanks to all who voted, and despite the slightly pessimistic expectations, let's hope for the best. | ||
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Toadily
United States837 Posts
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
On October 29 2011 08:42 fant0m wrote: Honestly this is wrong, and I think all the "BW scene" people are putting up this same straw man, it's really their only argument against SC2. A better player never loses due to "luck." If you lose due to "luck" in SC2, you aren't the better player, period. The problem with this position is that you are assuming that we have "good" pro players already playing SC2. A truly "good" pro player is consistent. No one except MVP and Nestea is consistent in SC2 so far, literally no one else. And Nestea doesn't have the extreme APM to match MVP's consistency. MVP obviously doesn't have 100% win rate, but the only people he loses to are the ones right behind him, like MMA and Bomber (and Nestea once). Even in his foreign tournaments, he went through MLG Anaheim without losing (winner's bracket -> won grand final), went through Blizzcon dropping only 1 set (to Nestea, and one of the games was close spawn Shattered Temple). Seriously, go take a look at MVP's record on gomtv.net. Take out the BO1's in group stages and team leagues. Look at his record in BO3+ and his individual league record. Ever since January, when he first established himself, he has lost to Ganzi (Super Tournament - June 1st), 2 Protoss (in March- when Protoss was unbeatable/had amulet), Bomber, and MMA in BO3+ series. That is IT. The Ganzi loss is honestly his only blemish in the last 10 MONTHS. Beyond that, he lost to Bomber and MMA, the only people close to him. That is not the sign of a "luck-based" game. He also has a loss vs DRG in AoL. Though I'm particularly amused by you explaining away his losses to Protoss (when he was in a huge slump and just playing poorly in TvP) as "Protoss unbeatable because of Amulet", when the PvT winrate was only like 55% at the time. Really desperate to make our point, aren't we? I don't even think Amulet made an appearance in those games. In any case, find a Protoss or Zerg with a similar quality, and we can talk. Terran is widely considered to be the most cheese-proof race with the most stable mirror matchup, and is at the moment very clearly the best race in the game. It's not especially surprising someone could consisitently do well with it. But if you look at Nestea's record, he has quite a few losses to players most would consider worse than him. Not to speak of Protoss players, they're complete rollercoasters. If anything, MVP sort of proves that the game would be less luck based if everybody played Terran. So I guess we should be happy about them dominating Code S, at least the best Terrans win a lot of the time. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On October 29 2011 08:55 setzer wrote: I'm super excited to see Bisu micro some colossus around instead of reavers. hahahahaha that actually made me laugh irl. | ||
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Gesperrt
Germany417 Posts
SC2 would benefit so much from this even if this goes along with the death of the real (korean way to play) BW. As a SC2 fan I can only be happy if this would come true, as a fan of the good old SC there is some kind of sadness in me. But I think SC2 is the future (of the SC-Community and the Esports scene in general) so I can live with that. | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
To be honest, I am less interested in seeing this big BW specific influx, then I am with seeing this massive new talent pool exploding onto the scene. I mean, the foreign "gap" was in the process of closing recently and there was a trickle of Korean pros onto foreign teams. Could this result in more Korean players pushed into foreign organizations? Or will this sort of consolidation in Korea create enough money to allow teams to fund their "expeditionary" forces. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On October 29 2011 08:35 Silidons wrote: no they wouldn't, because side by side sc1 is actually the harder game, in each and every aspect you look at it. i don't understand how people don't realize this, i never even heard of starcraft before i played sc2 and i know that sc1 is 10x harder to play than sc2. This is just down to the engine and interface. Coming from ES RTS games: RoR was first, and was harder than AoK. AoK was second, and was harder than AoM. AoE3 was fourth, which I did not play. Also, every time a new game came out there were some people who stayed with the old game, mostly because they thought the new game was too easy. For blizzard games, it went: WC, WC2, BW, WC3. The only reason WC2 isnt considered harder than BW is because the warcraft games have very low worker counts. As a closing point: Things change and you cant stop that. | ||
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XRaDiiX
Canada1730 Posts
On October 28 2011 19:59 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/w8iSy.jpg) Jaedong: I'll show you muta micro! I never watched brood war pro-matches too much but this picture gave me the sickest nerd chills; I can't even begin to comprehend how much this picture means to BW followers | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
I'm guessing a fair few of the guys still sticking around are doing so because they're inspired by the play of the current BW greats. | ||
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Akta
447 Posts
On October 29 2011 08:35 Silidons wrote: You probably misunderstood. A term like skill cap indicates there is some form of cap. In discussions like these, a cap that can be reached. In sc2 somewhat perfect macro might be humanly possible but for example close to perfect micro is not. So if sc2 was the old game with amazing players people wouldn't be used to how physical skills are displayed in "this new game sc1" and would probably complain that some displays of skills were missing. 10 years from now perhaps the best terrans individually micro 20+ marines(well) during battles for example. no they wouldn't, because side by side sc1 is actually the harder game, in each and every aspect you look at it. i don't understand how people don't realize this, i never even heard of starcraft before i played sc2 and i know that sc1 is 10x harder to play than sc2. | ||
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DEN1ED
United States1087 Posts
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
locked in players or players allowed to play in different leagues? i can't help but feel this new influx of new talents won't matter much if gom and kespa stay seperate, at least in korea. and are the teams going to focus both korea and foreign scene? and will ogn cast in english too, and if they do cast in english, will they allow korean casts viewable for koreans in foreign countries? (i love gom for their efforst but i hate them for not allowing korean casts out side of korea) so much changes coming up in the future of starcraft. i just hope sc2 evolves into a great game so it can live long and prosper. | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
On October 29 2011 09:00 Talin wrote: He did? Where? I do remember an interview where he complained about balance and Terran winning everything, but in the end he said he would probably play Protoss anyway. But oh well, I was looking for a reason to switch to Terran for a long time now. Considering Bisu is the reason I picked Protoss in the first place, I'm going to follow him anywhere. <3 Oh man, he said this: DES: If you do change over you starcraft 2, would you continue to play protoss? Bisu: If you're asking for my opinion, then no. Reviews seem to be calling it Terran-World. It'd be nice if they worked on the balance a little bit. If Terran continues to win like this, who is going to play that game? If you're going to make Protoss such a weak race, might as well get rid of it. It's quite saddening. But, if I had to make the switch to Starcraft 2, I probably would play Protoss. (laughs) I bolded an interesting question by him  From: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=276676 So he says for money T, but would play P... hmm.. SC2 must be just for fun then  | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
On October 29 2011 09:11 DEN1ED wrote: I kinda feel bad for the current SC2 teams. I feel like a lot of them will just get outclassed and disband. Or it could cause them to work harder and more efficiently since they have already tasted success. It is a bit idealistic, but we could end up possibly seeing stronger mergers between the recent Korean-foreigner teams, and sort of shifting the game from Korea vs. the world to Old school vs. New school. How sick would that be. BW vs SC2 feud could overtake Korea vs. Foreigners. | ||
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LEGAsee
170 Posts
On October 29 2011 07:09 MrHoon wrote: The unreal lack of respect most new SC2 fans give Brood War is disgusting in this thread. The overwhelming elitism (which ALWAYS has been there since the dawn of time) BW Fans give out is just as disgusting as well. One thing that pisses me off more than anything from SC2 fans is the whole "hurrr BW sprites and game is just graphically ugly as fuck" and "You can't even run HD on BW!" You guys are so damn spoiled, jesus christ. Back in my days we couldn't even watch BroodWar in it's default resolution because it didnt fucking exist back then. We had to watch "Daum And BW fans need to seriously stop feeding the damn trolls. Have an open mind for fucks sake. Be happy your favorite team and or favorite player will be playing for you on TV. We have a chance for players like Flash/Bisu/JD/Stork to continue and pursue their career in SC2 which would be awesome. Afterall isn't that what we all want in the end? I wonder how many people are truly "FOR ESPORTS!" when it all gets boiled down. Sure, it's cool that professional gamers are gaining acceptance as legit 'athletes' but quite frankly I don't care about esports, I care about BW..I certainly wouldn't watch my favorite hockey team if they switched to lacrosse. Should the teams stop playing BW then the extent of my esports support will probably be EVO for SSFIV and that's it and TL will be dead to me..sad day that will be. So no, that isn't what we all want and I wish people would figure that out. Why is SC2 the future? Command and Conquer 3 wasn't the future, it was just another RTS game which is what SC2 is. They play entirely different. Seeing the links people put in here of awesome BW players, like all the bisu FPVODS and seeing SC2 fans say "Man I can't wait for him to switch over and do cool stuff!"...why don't you just start watching BW instead? That cool shit is happening in BW NOW..why hope that importing amazing players and killing off an amazing game will bring life to a mediocre rts that is seemingly designed to undo all the cool micro battles and mechanics that left you with an "OMFG how did how do that!!!" so that everyday people could focus on throwing armies against each other since macroing etc is easier? Sure, it's easier to play and you don't need to focus on macro so I understand why some people would prefer to PLAY SC2, but that's what makes these BW PROFESSIONALS goddamn amazing to WATCH. It's art, 5 things to do all the time and the APM to do any 3 of them. SC2 isn't even stable right now anyway, balance patches fairly often and 2 more expansions so it will be a long while before just 'meta-game' shifts are what move the balance between the races. BW is already an amazing game with deep strategy (Seriously, makes me a sad panda to read some of these comments...you really think SC2 has more strategy just because you need more APM in BW? sigh...) Well that was slightly scattered. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On October 29 2011 06:44 karpo wrote: Of course some ex BW pros will drop out of SC2. And about the "losing to bad players" seems to be a old and quite tired argument against SC2. We've had the same two guys win 6 out of the 9 or so GSLs so far. We've seen the same bunch of people place well in most tournaments. Sure there's a difference from BW but it's a huge exaggeration to say that the best lose "time after time" against worse players. Well the Code A/S format was designed to help this consistency, even if it's changed now. The person you quoted ClouD is actually a very good player i think his opinion is worthwhile. Personally i don't think certain players will enjoy the game enough to play it professionally; Flash for one. The first generation who switched, such as MVP had a lot more motivation to play because they had a very good chance of winning some serious prize money. With a large switch at once this isn't going to be as big of a motivation anymore. ForGG must feel a bit stupid now he gave up a salaried position in KT to play SC2. On October 29 2011 09:10 Akta wrote: You probably misunderstood. A term like skill cap indicates there is some form of cap. In discussions like these, a cap that can be reached. In sc2 somewhat perfect macro might be humanly possible but for example close to perfect micro is not. So if sc2 was the old game with amazing players people wouldn't be used to how physical skills are displayed in "this new game sc1" and would probably complain that some displays of skills were missing. 10 years from now perhaps the best terrans individually micro 20+ marines(well) during battles for example. That's stupid, how would they do that? I don't know if you even watched any BW but the thing is the APM has to be split between macro/micro. No one can do everything at once, even Flash has idle SCVs everywhere. In BW when a pro micro's his army, he's using ALL of his APM at that time to control his army. The difference is he has to stop controlling it at some point, picking the best time to devote his attention to other tasks. In SC2 they will have the same APM used for army control except they can just focus on the army entirely. They are not going to be able to magically achieve any feats they couldn't do before. Why people don't quite understand this and get it wrong every time i don't know. This is ignoring the whole fact that battles are over so quickly and the units are not designed to maximize micro potential. You aren't going to see anything like this: The game simply isn't designed for it no matter if players have 100% attention to their units at all time. | ||
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