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New HotS Units/Abilities in Blizzcon - Page 266

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Sceptor87
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada266 Posts
October 22 2011 05:17 GMT
#5301
I'm kind of worried about scouting for Zerg. Terran and Protoss both have fairly amazing options now to scout at a reasonable time and gather a fairly high amount of information, but Zerg just seems like it has incredibly limited and really shitty options. I guess burrow and movement can work with Overlords, but it will be nowhere near the same as shitting out a scan or seeing exactly what your opponent is making.

Hopefully there's extensive beta testing with actual professionals taking part in it and throwing bias out the window just because they want a leg up on the competition with their race. Cause, if I'm being totally honest, I can see this turning into a bit of a clusterfuck if there isn't.
Standard,
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-22 05:21:45
October 22 2011 05:17 GMT
#5302
On October 22 2011 14:09 kofman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 14:01 Dommk wrote:
On October 22 2011 13:53 kofman wrote:
On October 22 2011 13:53 Dommk wrote:
On October 22 2011 13:47 Active.815 wrote:
@niteowl: takes 8 seconds to set up, 3 seconds to kill (2 for probes because of no regen/40hp), and blizz already said they were considering making a special sound (ala nuke)

Phoneix/blinkstalker already counters mutas, this just adds to anti-spireplay

Harass that won't die nearly as easily as hellions/shuts down static D/shuts down mining (less noticeable)...

I will admit the replicant is rather underwhelming, however :p

I disagree about the replicant.

Just the ability to replicate an SCV to make Orbitals to give Scan and Mules is worth the price alone.

Imagine late game PvT, Protoss is also be able to reach a "True max" with their own Orbital farm replacing workers as well as endless scans to get tactical advantages

Why would you need scans, protoss has observers.

If you have to ask that question then I don't think you actually play this game.

There is a huge difference in being able to get information right at that very instant as opposed to in a short to long period of time.

Observers are great for keeping tabs, but Scans are absolutely amazing at gaining information immediately

If i didn't play sc, why would i be at teamliquid?

Observers are like permanent scans which are a lot cheaper than scans, and can move around. I don't see why anybody would want scans rather than observers.

How can it be cheaper than Scans when a Scan doesn't cost any money?

I'm talking about the late game here when you are capable of building an Orbital farm. In the early game Observers are much much better, but in the late game when you have the ability to create 8+ Orbital Commands, Scan becomes significantly better than Observers.

Observers have travel time. At times Starcraft is a game of seconds, the difference between a Scan catching a army moving through an area you wanted to check out that very instant as opposed to sending your observer there and narrowly missing the army that moved by can be absolutely huge.

Observers are significantly better at keeping tabs on Areas/Armies, things like spotting drops or following an army close by to see what position they will take, but scans are much better at gaining immediate information, their wide AOE, Global cast range and Instant activation make them much better at gaining information when you want it that second as opposed to in a few seconds.

But yeah, I wouldn't replicate an SCV for Scans alone. Fortunately Orbital commands also come with this thing call the Mule which is pretty good at mining out expansions and also has the ability to fly

Honestly, just looking at these units from face value alone. After the mid game, all my expansions will either be Planetary Fortresses or Orbitals with Nexus's in keylocations for good Mass recall opportunities
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
October 22 2011 05:19 GMT
#5303
On October 22 2011 14:16 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 14:09 Antisocialmunky wrote:
On October 22 2011 14:06 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
On October 22 2011 13:53 Dommk wrote:
On October 22 2011 13:47 Active.815 wrote:
@niteowl: takes 8 seconds to set up, 3 seconds to kill (2 for probes because of no regen/40hp), and blizz already said they were considering making a special sound (ala nuke)

Phoneix/blinkstalker already counters mutas, this just adds to anti-spireplay

Harass that won't die nearly as easily as hellions/shuts down static D/shuts down mining (less noticeable)...

I will admit the replicant is rather underwhelming, however :p

I disagree about the replicant.

Just the ability to replicate an SCV to make Orbitals to give Scan and Mules is worth the price alone.

Imagine late game PvT, Protoss is also be able to reach a "True max" with their own Orbital farm replacing workers as well as endless scans to get tactical advantages


Screw Orbitals, I want to see Hydra/colossus comps.


Proxy nexus siege tank recall.


I call your proxy nexus siege tank recall and raise you Nydus/chargelots.


I call your nydus/chargelots and raise you a nydus/colossus proxy nexus carrier battlecruiser recall. Just don't ask how i got zerg and terran in the same game. :>
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
ScaSully
Profile Joined April 2011
United States488 Posts
October 22 2011 05:21 GMT
#5304
omg everyone see firebat FTW can't wait maybe we wont have to go stupid mech at all but zeerg units are scary toss look meh
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Big.E33
Profile Joined October 2011
United States27 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-22 05:25:19
October 22 2011 05:21 GMT
#5305
the fact that people are saying that observers are remotely comparable to scans is laughable, you can kill an observer, scanning it unavoidable, takes no population, no resources, just energy, and can be placed anywhere regardless of what is going on at any time
Sandwiches
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
October 22 2011 05:21 GMT
#5306
On October 22 2011 14:19 Active.815 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 14:16 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
On October 22 2011 14:09 Antisocialmunky wrote:
On October 22 2011 14:06 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
On October 22 2011 13:53 Dommk wrote:
On October 22 2011 13:47 Active.815 wrote:
@niteowl: takes 8 seconds to set up, 3 seconds to kill (2 for probes because of no regen/40hp), and blizz already said they were considering making a special sound (ala nuke)

Phoneix/blinkstalker already counters mutas, this just adds to anti-spireplay

Harass that won't die nearly as easily as hellions/shuts down static D/shuts down mining (less noticeable)...

I will admit the replicant is rather underwhelming, however :p

I disagree about the replicant.

Just the ability to replicate an SCV to make Orbitals to give Scan and Mules is worth the price alone.

Imagine late game PvT, Protoss is also be able to reach a "True max" with their own Orbital farm replacing workers as well as endless scans to get tactical advantages


Screw Orbitals, I want to see Hydra/colossus comps.


Proxy nexus siege tank recall.


I call your proxy nexus siege tank recall and raise you Nydus/chargelots.


I call your nydus/chargelots and raise you a nydus/colossus proxy nexus carrier battlecruiser recall. Just don't ask how i got zerg and terran in the same game. :>


... PROTOSS IMBA, ‎(╯‵Д′)╯彡┻━┻
Cauterize the area
Mjolnir
Profile Joined January 2009
912 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-22 05:24:54
October 22 2011 05:23 GMT
#5307
On October 22 2011 14:12 kofman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 14:10 StoLiVe wrote:
On October 22 2011 14:09 kofman wrote:
On October 22 2011 14:01 Dommk wrote:
On October 22 2011 13:53 kofman wrote:
On October 22 2011 13:53 Dommk wrote:
On October 22 2011 13:47 Active.815 wrote:
@niteowl: takes 8 seconds to set up, 3 seconds to kill (2 for probes because of no regen/40hp), and blizz already said they were considering making a special sound (ala nuke)

Phoneix/blinkstalker already counters mutas, this just adds to anti-spireplay

Harass that won't die nearly as easily as hellions/shuts down static D/shuts down mining (less noticeable)...

I will admit the replicant is rather underwhelming, however :p

I disagree about the replicant.

Just the ability to replicate an SCV to make Orbitals to give Scan and Mules is worth the price alone.

Imagine late game PvT, Protoss is also be able to reach a "True max" with their own Orbital farm replacing workers as well as endless scans to get tactical advantages

Why would you need scans, protoss has observers.

If you have to ask that question then I don't think you actually play this game.

There is a huge difference in being able to get information right at that very instant as opposed to in a short to long period of time.

Observers are great for keeping tabs, but Scans are absolutely amazing at gaining information immediately

If i didn't play sc, why would i be at teamliquid?

Observers are like permanent scans which are a lot cheaper than scans, and can move around. I don't see why anybody would want scans rather than observers.

because scan don't cost supply and observer does oO

Scans cost 270 mins, while observers cost 25/75. Observers can last forever, while scans last for 10 seconds. Observers can move, while scans can only see 1 area. I think its pretty clear which is better.


Hehe, poor little Terran.

Scan is the best scouting and detection in the game, period.

You wanna cry about costs? How about the fact that for me (a Zerg) to scout an opponent at my level (Master) I will generally spend over 300 minerals in either OLs or lings. More often than not, if the opponent isn't total fail, I see squat. It's easy to preemptively set up patrols where OLs will poke, and sending lings at the front is basically suiciding minerals on the off-chance you see something useful (again, rare if they don't suck).

Now, here's the kicker. The other 50% of my play time is dedicated to Terran. When I want to see what's going on I go "clickity click!" on my OC and voila! I can see anything - anywhere - instantly. Does that cost me a MULE? Yep. Do I care? Nope. Why? Because having the right army comp, in the right spot, at the right time, is worth more than a MULE.

Moreover, late game, I can spam comsat like it's going out of style and not give a rat's ass about the cost.

So yeah... I play Z and T equally. Terran's comsat is the shit... don't even try to deny it.

bRiz
Profile Joined August 2011
United States113 Posts
October 22 2011 05:24 GMT
#5308
anyone else think replicators won't make the cut because they're too useless?
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
October 22 2011 05:26 GMT
#5309
On October 22 2011 14:24 bRiz wrote:
anyone else think replicators won't make the cut because they're too useless?


No, just you. Because Blizzard will keep buffing it via cost reduction if no one uses them.
I see their use in pro-games by replicating ghosts v T.
Cauterize the area
drgoats
Profile Joined March 2010
United States310 Posts
October 22 2011 05:26 GMT
#5310
On October 22 2011 13:53 Dommk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 13:47 Active.815 wrote:
@niteowl: takes 8 seconds to set up, 3 seconds to kill (2 for probes because of no regen/40hp), and blizz already said they were considering making a special sound (ala nuke)

Phoneix/blinkstalker already counters mutas, this just adds to anti-spireplay

Harass that won't die nearly as easily as hellions/shuts down static D/shuts down mining (less noticeable)...

I will admit the replicant is rather underwhelming, however :p

I disagree about the replicant.

Just the ability to replicate an SCV to make Orbitals to give Scan and Mules is worth the price alone.

Imagine late game PvT, Protoss is also be able to reach a "True max" with their own Orbital farm replacing workers as well as endless scans to get tactical advantages


So you need to pay the cost of the replicant, plus the cost of the command center, a barracks, and the oribital upgrade? Might be overpriced for only mules and scans, even as good as they are.

On a side note:

How does the recall work? Do we target a nexus or does the recall only return units to the nexus that actually used the ability. If it is the latter, I can see that being slightly awkward since the majority of the toss players have all of their nexuses binded to one key and have no control over which one is actually being used to use the ability. This would lead to us having to bind each nexus on a different hotkey.
atavus
Profile Joined March 2011
France60 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-22 05:29:12
October 22 2011 05:27 GMT
#5311
On October 22 2011 14:13 Ryder. wrote:
Also lol at the guy who thinks blinking stalkers is easy micro, yet stutter Marauders is hard lol...


Damn I missed this one. Concerning the unit as a protoss player I don't feel real improvement.
From my point of view, the best thing is the mass recall on nexus.
Concerning the new units :
- the oracle don't really interest me.
- the tempest seems kind of okay as an anti mass muta but I ask myself what it can do against vikings & ground units.
- The replicant is a funny unit, this offer so much possibilty maybe (too much)


ZorBa.G
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia279 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-22 05:37:17
October 22 2011 05:27 GMT
#5312
On October 22 2011 13:43 Dungaurd wrote:
Terran the most micro-intensive race???? Lol, try playing protoss some time brohan. Terran = stim and a click.


Whats with the whole "brohan" thing? Just letting you know, that word just sounds so stupid like as if a 10 year old made it up. Stop using that word please.... for the love of god.

I think most people know that Terran is in fact the most mirco intensive race. I'm not sure as to why people get so offended by this statement.... Yes every race has some mechanics which are difficault to achieve then others. But if your talking about micro, I dont think there is any denying that Terran is the most micro intensive race.

Anyways, back on topic... what the hell with zergs hook ability? We now have the Devourer from HoN in SC2!!!

EDIT: I can already such compositions as;

ling/infestor/viper

ling/bling/viper

ling/muta/viper

God these look scary for Protoss and Terran players. Im not sure if I like the idea of toss being able to replicate my ghosts either. I think the replicator is broken tbh, well just have to put up with this unit until blizzard decides to take it out.
SuperYo1000
Profile Joined July 2008
United States880 Posts
October 22 2011 05:31 GMT
#5313
cant wait to replicate scv's and build cc and lift off and hide in the corner after my base is destroyed while telling my opponent that Im so much better then them sqeezing out a very underserved win
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
October 22 2011 05:33 GMT
#5314
On October 22 2011 14:27 atavus wrote:

- The replicant is a funny unit, this offer so much possibilty maybe (too much)




It really depends on cost, it's not hard to balance something as powerful as replicator:
- building cost,
- building time,
- supply,
- movement speed,
- effective range,

These are all critical factors in deciding use of a unit, Carrier's biggest nerf was the removal of stacking because of Viking doom flower. That "fix" removed 50% benefit of going air, force multiplication. IRL, artillery would take days to both deploy and operate to level a small area whereas a wing of B-52 bombers could level the same area in minutes.
Cauterize the area
badmojogogo
Profile Joined October 2011
United States2 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-22 05:37:54
October 22 2011 05:33 GMT
#5315
What buildings do you need to make a viper?
Ppl keeping saying Lair Tech.
But you just need a lair and no other building?

I'm wondering if you need a spire to get mobile detection with zerg. lol

also. with no overseer... does that mean no changelings!?!?!
how is a zerg supposed to scout an opponents base?

by now ppl know how to make their buildings / tech in places that overlords and lings can't spot in time. so what is zerg's scouting options??
Jumbled
Profile Joined September 2010
1543 Posts
October 22 2011 05:34 GMT
#5316
On October 22 2011 14:24 bRiz wrote:
anyone else think replicators won't make the cut because they're too useless?

As long as it's cheaper than some units and doesn't have an absurd build time, it'll be worthwhile. If I'm Protoss in HotS, I make one colossus, ignore the range upgrade, then go crazy cloning range-upgraded colossi for less than what it costs to build them.
bRiz
Profile Joined August 2011
United States113 Posts
October 22 2011 05:34 GMT
#5317
I dunno, I don't think the replicator will be welcomed by protoss. I can't see it holding up at all vs the new units from T and Z. Hopefully it's function is changed or it gets replaced/cut in favor of a gateway buff.
SuperYo1000
Profile Joined July 2008
United States880 Posts
October 22 2011 05:34 GMT
#5318
On October 22 2011 14:34 Jumbled wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 14:24 bRiz wrote:
anyone else think replicators won't make the cut because they're too useless?

As long as it's cheaper than some units and doesn't have an absurd build time, it'll be worthwhile. If I'm Protoss in HotS, I make one colossus, ignore the range upgrade, then go crazy cloning range-upgraded colossi for less than what it costs to build them.



you cant replicate massive units
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
October 22 2011 05:34 GMT
#5319
On October 22 2011 14:31 SuperYo1000 wrote:
cant wait to replicate scv's and build cc and lift off and hide in the corner after my base is destroyed while telling my opponent that Im so much better then them sqeezing out a very underserved win


Now toss can BM loss v T too! -_-;
Cauterize the area
UBavarice
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden358 Posts
October 22 2011 05:35 GMT
#5320
Why does this have to turn into a balance whine-fest? Discuss design instead and give feedback!

Personally I think...

Z looks to get some really interesting new tools. I'm especially excited about the flying defiler :D

Shredders for T looks like they might be a little bit broken with their current damage, but other than that they seem cool. The Warhounds or whatever... why not just bring back the Goliath? I like the emphasis on mech-units though.

And for P, I really like the Oracle and its abilities. The replica-thingy however is just super lame from a design AND lore POV. If you wanna play protoss I suppose you want to play with PROTOSS units?
The Creator of the Universe, LG-IM.NesTea | The Gracken, IdrA | The Spoon Terran, "Big Papa" EG.ThorZaIN --- Fighting!!
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