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On October 22 2011 14:27 ZorBa.G wrote:
I think most people know that Terran is in fact the most mirco intensive race. I'm not sure as to why people get so offended by this statement.... Yes every race has some mechanics which are difficault to achieve then others. But if your talking about micro, I dont think there is any denying that Terran is the most micro intensive race.
Fact is people think that being micro intensive is about "Oh it's hard".
Terran is micro-intensive not because the micro is hard but because it's Hit&run and split for almost all the units, the hit& run is intensive (meaning time consuming) YES, hard NO.
As for placement before fight terran have less to care about compared to other races.
Almost all terran unit move at the same speed 2.25.
Zerg unit & toss unit have big differencies between their units speed & each units must be placed in very precise formation to not die.
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Woah! I really like changes!! <3
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On October 22 2011 14:26 drgoats wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 13:53 Dommk wrote:On October 22 2011 13:47 Active.815 wrote:
@niteowl: takes 8 seconds to set up, 3 seconds to kill (2 for probes because of no regen/40hp), and blizz already said they were considering making a special sound (ala nuke)
Phoneix/blinkstalker already counters mutas, this just adds to anti-spireplay
Harass that won't die nearly as easily as hellions/shuts down static D/shuts down mining (less noticeable)...
I will admit the replicant is rather underwhelming, however :p I disagree about the replicant. Just the ability to replicate an SCV to make Orbitals to give Scan and Mules is worth the price alone. Imagine late game PvT, Protoss is also be able to reach a "True max" with their own Orbital farm replacing workers as well as endless scans to get tactical advantages So you need to pay the cost of the replicant, plus the cost of the command center, a barracks, and the oribital upgrade? Might be overpriced for only mules and scans, even as good as they are. On a side note: How does the recall work? Do we target a nexus or does the recall only return units to the nexus that actually used the ability. If it is the latter, I can see that being slightly awkward since the majority of the toss players have all of their nexuses binded to one key and have no control over which one is actually being used to use the ability. This would lead to us having to bind each nexus on a different hotkey.
Mass recall will most likely it will work like every other AOE spell with smart casting, meaning it will just use the Nexus that is the closest to the center of the Mass Recall AOE.
Protoss only have all their Nexus's on one hotkey because there is no reason to have them on different hotkeys, it will obviously chance come HOTS.
The initial investment to get an Orbital Command looks steep, but after 3 bases, honestly you have more than enough income to spare to build them.
One of the biggest Problems for Protoss is taking expansions, a lot of the time you see Protoss lose is because they can't seem to secure an additional third/forth base due to enemy pressure. How many times have you seen far away expansions being canceled by marauder drops? Now imagine taking far away expos as Protoss now against Terran. It will be SUPER easy, you can create the Orbital at home or in a super obscure spot guaranteeing you that it will ALWAYS be completed.
This will completely throw a spanner in Terrans gameplan, they won't be able to snipe expansions anymore with marauder drops alone. With Mass recall and flying Orbitals, Terran would exclusively have to use Marine drops to do any real damage to out lying expansions, which are MUCH easier to defend than Marauder drops.
The replicant in my eyes just looks so fucking amazing. Pound for Pound the unit will probably not be worth it most of the time, but Starcraft is a game beyond mere statistics, being able to create a full energy Infestor, Viper, Templar or even a Voidray can often mean the difference between an easy win or a devastating loss.
The unit gives a tactical advantage, which IMO is worth significantly more than mere army value
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On October 22 2011 14:24 bRiz wrote:
anyone else think replicators won't make the cut because they're too useless?
They look awesome: whenever a unit looks OP, you can just go ahead and make your own. As zerg I would love to have a unit that copies other units. Also, I think it would make more sense for zerg to clone something than a toss. How much supply are they? 2? I could imagine remaxing on them and then turning them all into immortals or siege tanks.
I'd gladly trade you my swarm host for your replicator XD
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On October 22 2011 14:35 UBavarice wrote:
Why does this have to turn into a balance whine-fest? Discuss design instead and give feedback!
Personally I think...
Z looks to get some really interesting new tools. I'm especially excited about the flying defiler :D
Shredders for T looks like they might be a little bit broken with their current damage, but other than that they seem cool. The Warhounds or whatever... why not just bring back the Goliath? I like the emphasis on mech-units though.
And for P, I really like the Oracle and its abilities. The replica-thingy however is just super lame from a design AND lore POV. If you wanna play protoss I suppose you want to play with PROTOSS units?
I think they should replace replica with reaver. I mean why NOT. everybody wants it. Good for defending and harrass and deal decent splash damage. Come on, why is blizzard so stubborn.
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all right im calling they get rid of bane move in the beta
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I can think of two purposes for replicants, besides copying casters:
1. Do a late game (20m+) tech switch during remax - you can swap between immortal/VR against a remax depending on what you see, at the cost of a premium. You might not able to chrono out, or have the infrastructure for cranking out 8 of either unit, but saving up replicants can let you do that swap.
2. Here's the more exciting one: _if_ you can replicate hallucination. Take a unit like oracle or DT that's designed for early game harass. If you open stargate or shrine, you are potentially committing yourself and setting yourself super behind if you fail. But with hallucination + replicant, you can mimic the cost of alternative tech, get out 1-2 oracle/DT/VR, but spend your money and time on separate infrastructure.
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On October 22 2011 13:53 Dungaurd wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 13:50 kofman wrote:On October 22 2011 13:48 Dungaurd wrote:On October 22 2011 13:46 kofman wrote:On October 22 2011 13:43 Dungaurd wrote:
Terran the most micro-intensive race???? Lol, try playing protoss some time brohan. Terran = stim and a click. Try playing terran sometime, and you'll find they take the most micro. I think emps, kiting, and focus firing is not just amove. TvZ is especially micro intesive, focus firing banes with tanks, and running marines from banes. The only time protoss has to micro is in the earlygame with forcefields. Then amove with deathball and win. I have played terran. Protoss kite, storm, and focus fire, as well as blink ect. I'm not saying terrans don't micro, I'm just saying that protoss micro more, and zerg the least. Terran has to emp and kite zealots, which is a lot harder than casting storm. TvZ is more microintensive than anything protoss has to deal with. Have you ever blinked stalkers? Tvz is not as micro intensive as pvp, and yes I have played terran, have you played protoss?
This back and forth is idiotic. The person that wants to micro more will micro more and better as opposed to the other player, regardless of race. Sure you can't kite as much with lings, roaches and banes. But this doesn't mean you can't use burrow tactics to skirt armies. Or mutas to harass constantly. In fact you could micro zerglings to dodge tank splash if you were that good. It just so happens that macro benefits zergs better because microing is impossibly hard in some situations or has negligible effects next to macro.
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On October 22 2011 14:23 Mjolnir wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 14:12 kofman wrote:On October 22 2011 14:10 StoLiVe wrote:On October 22 2011 14:09 kofman wrote:On October 22 2011 14:01 Dommk wrote:On October 22 2011 13:53 kofman wrote:On October 22 2011 13:53 Dommk wrote:On October 22 2011 13:47 Active.815 wrote:
@niteowl: takes 8 seconds to set up, 3 seconds to kill (2 for probes because of no regen/40hp), and blizz already said they were considering making a special sound (ala nuke)
Phoneix/blinkstalker already counters mutas, this just adds to anti-spireplay
Harass that won't die nearly as easily as hellions/shuts down static D/shuts down mining (less noticeable)...
I will admit the replicant is rather underwhelming, however :p I disagree about the replicant. Just the ability to replicate an SCV to make Orbitals to give Scan and Mules is worth the price alone. Imagine late game PvT, Protoss is also be able to reach a "True max" with their own Orbital farm replacing workers as well as endless scans to get tactical advantages Why would you need scans, protoss has observers. If you have to ask that question then I don't think you actually play this game. There is a huge difference in being able to get information right at that very instant as opposed to in a short to long period of time. Observers are great for keeping tabs, but Scans are absolutely amazing at gaining information immediately If i didn't play sc, why would i be at teamliquid? Observers are like permanent scans which are a lot cheaper than scans, and can move around. I don't see why anybody would want scans rather than observers. because scan don't cost supply and observer does oO Scans cost 270 mins, while observers cost 25/75. Observers can last forever, while scans last for 10 seconds. Observers can move, while scans can only see 1 area. I think its pretty clear which is better. Hehe, poor little Terran. Scan is the best scouting and detection in the game, period. You wanna cry about costs? How about the fact that for me (a Zerg) to scout an opponent at my level (Master) I will generally spend over 300 minerals in either OLs or lings. More often than not, if the opponent isn't total fail, I see squat. It's easy to preemptively set up patrols where OLs will poke, and sending lings at the front is basically suiciding minerals on the off-chance you see something useful (again, rare if they don't suck). Now, here's the kicker. The other 50% of my play time is dedicated to Terran. When I want to see what's going on I go "clickity click!" on my OC and voila! I can see anything - anywhere - instantly. Does that cost me a MULE? Yep. Do I care? Nope. Why? Because having the right army comp, in the right spot, at the right time, is worth more than a MULE. Moreover, late game, I can spam comsat like it's going out of style and not give a rat's ass about the cost. So yeah... I play Z and T equally. Terran's comsat is the shit... don't even try to deny it.
I'm not crying about costs. Every race is different, I agree that comsats are good, but observers are even better, because they are permanent and can move around.
The fact that you don't care when you use a scan rather than a mule just shows that you don't play terran at all. Every terran cringes when they burn a scan in the earlygame, rather than use a mule, especially when the scan doesn't see anything.
I don't understand your zerg whine. By suiciding in zerglings in the frount, you gain intel about their army comp, and there are these units called overlords which can give you incredible map vision. Just cause your masters doesn't mean shit.
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Whats with the whole "brohan" thing? Just letting you know, that word just sounds so stupid like as if a 10 year old made it up. Stop using that word please.... for the love of god
No.
how bout stop letting it annoy u brohan?
also no one commented on the burrowed ultra charge yet? ultras are gonna be so insane in HoTS now.
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Any mechwarrior fans kind of angry?
Terran Warhound
![[image loading]](http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2011/10/WarHound-B-590x345.jpg)
versus the Jade Falcon Loki
![[image loading]](http://www.deviantart.com/download/164496076/Loki_Blueprint_by_Walter_NEST.jpg)
or even the Summoner/Thor
![[image loading]](http://www.papercraftmuseum.com/pcm/pics/thormw3)
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On October 22 2011 14:34 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 14:34 Jumbled wrote:On October 22 2011 14:24 bRiz wrote:
anyone else think replicators won't make the cut because they're too useless? As long as it's cheaper than some units and doesn't have an absurd build time, it'll be worthwhile. If I'm Protoss in HotS, I make one colossus, ignore the range upgrade, then go crazy cloning range-upgraded colossi for less than what it costs to build them. you cant replicate massive units
Hmm, hadn't noted that part. Limits it a bit, but it still might let you get storm out a bit faster. It's difficult to say how useful cloning enemy units would be without knowing the mechanics of it - range, cloning time, that kind of thing.
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On October 22 2011 14:41 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +Whats with the whole "brohan" thing? Just letting you know, that word just sounds so stupid like as if a 10 year old made it up. Stop using that word please.... for the love of god No. how bout stop letting it annoy u brohan? also no one commented on the burrowed ultra charge yet? ultras are gonna be so insane in HoTS now.
Yep... a 10 year old idiot for sure.
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slayers_boxer is going to have a field day with abuse mechanics if the beta doesn't iron them out xD
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On October 22 2011 14:42 TSL-Lore wrote:Any mechwarrior fans kind of angry? + Show Spoiler +Terran Warhound versus the Jade Falcon Loki or even the Summoner/Thor
I'm just sad they aren't using actual goliaths, or at least the appearance and sound. Always loved that unit.
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Is it true that David Kim really said EMP was going to get nerfed and forge buffed?
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On October 22 2011 14:44 Jumbled wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 14:42 TSL-Lore wrote:Any mechwarrior fans kind of angry? + Show Spoiler +Terran Warhound versus the Jade Falcon Loki or even the Summoner/Thor I'm just sad they aren't using actual goliaths, or at least the appearance and sound. Always loved that unit.
Couldn't agree more. Goliaths are badass.
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... so are we gonna get more videos and photos? what about every unit being used with commentary.
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On October 22 2011 14:42 Jumbled wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 14:34 SuperYo1000 wrote:On October 22 2011 14:34 Jumbled wrote:On October 22 2011 14:24 bRiz wrote:
anyone else think replicators won't make the cut because they're too useless? As long as it's cheaper than some units and doesn't have an absurd build time, it'll be worthwhile. If I'm Protoss in HotS, I make one colossus, ignore the range upgrade, then go crazy cloning range-upgraded colossi for less than what it costs to build them. you cant replicate massive units Hmm, hadn't noted that part. Limits it a bit, but it still might let you get storm out a bit faster. It's difficult to say how useful cloning enemy units would be without knowing the mechanics of it - range, cloning time, that kind of thing.
Well just clone raven and use PDD vs Terran and win really. no but seriously it's going to be insane. I love all these quirks since it's going to add so many odd turns on the game to let it grow this LoV
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Sorry if this has already been answered, but I guess I'm to tired right now to find it: Did they announce when the beta will go live?
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EPT
