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On October 22 2011 13:06 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 13:05 Zeke50100 wrote:On October 22 2011 13:05 Daralii wrote:On October 22 2011 13:04 sc2holar wrote:
So the Warhound is basicly a stalker with AoE air damage and much higher ground DPS?
it better cost at least 200/100. but knowing david kim it will probably be the same as a stalker. It's basically a stalker that isn't terrible, yes. But it lacks Blink and probably isn't as fast, so meh  So it's a dragoon. Damn, the tempest's air-to-ground attack does 35 damage. 0_o
That's, brutal (depending on attack speed) wish someone would,release atk speed and dmg .. out of curiousityyyyyy//....
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On October 22 2011 13:16 NuKedUFirst wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 13:06 Daralii wrote:On October 22 2011 13:05 Zeke50100 wrote:On October 22 2011 13:05 Daralii wrote:On October 22 2011 13:04 sc2holar wrote:
So the Warhound is basicly a stalker with AoE air damage and much higher ground DPS?
it better cost at least 200/100. but knowing david kim it will probably be the same as a stalker. It's basically a stalker that isn't terrible, yes. But it lacks Blink and probably isn't as fast, so meh So it's a dragoon. Damn, the tempest's air-to-ground attack does 35 damage. 0_o That's, brutal (depending on attack speed) wish someone would,release atk speed and dmg .. out of curiousityyyyyy//....
Damage and health is here: http://www.gamefront.com/blizzcon-2011-starcraft-2-heart-of-the-swarm-new-multiplayer-unit-stats-and-abilities/, but the attack speeds aren't all listed. Get to see the sexy dev renders if nothing else.
I don't mind losing the carrier when the replacement looks like this:
![[image loading]](http://cdn.gamefront.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Tempest.jpg)
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From reddit's sc2 breakdown thread
Q1: What direction are you trying to go with the multiplay, and which unit do you think is going to be the most game changing?
We're trying to add more strategies to the game - as always. As diverse matchups as possible.
Dustin: I'm most nervous about the Replicant. It's a lot of fun, but I'm afraid of it being broken. I'm afraid that terrans will stop making siege tanks because they're afraid of the Replicant copying it, and thus resulting in removing units from the game - not adding.
Kim: I'm most scared of the Viper. Because terran players rely on tanks for defence, and if you can shut that down - it's scary. Same for protoss and colossus.
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On October 22 2011 13:16 Active.815 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 13:08 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 13:00 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:55 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:49 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:43 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:40 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:38 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:33 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:18 Ballistixz wrote:
[quote]
spread vipers are you serious right now? like i said you have no idea on how vipers work because you havent played it, so your balance whine about a unit that doesnt even exist yet (officially) makes no sense what so ever. how do you know spreading vipers is the best way to control them?
i mean seriously... how can u call a unit, that u know almost nothing about except for what its skills do, imbalanced? it will change tvz yes, but calling it imbalanced just because your mind cant think of a way to deal with a unit that doesnt exist yet (officially) is beyond stupid. Spread vipers to save them, durp-de-durr, like the colossus-stalker/viking interaction We've seen pull work=ridiculous vs tanks Again, if the cloud works at all like what they said, even if it's just against ground, unless you snipe vipers before an engagement you're dead. beyond stupid is what this unit would do to TvZ if it doesn't get nerfed. you make me rofl. im done with this retarded argument. if you think that a unit that hasn't even been released yet is imba and needs nerfing before its even tested then that says alot about the mentality of balance whiners in this thread. i do however find it funny how u havent commented about shredders yet and what they will do in TvZ. Uh, replace leaving a tank or two at each expansion? hoo baby! slightly less expensive anti counterattack unit that doesn't work with anything friendly nearby, and can be outranged by siege units? Awesome, lemme cover the map with those babies while not building anything from my factories in the meantime, and probably spending all my gas! Argument=retarded because you can't win, lol no. the argument is retarded because you are balancing whining and QQing about a unit you know nothing about. in other words you are whining just to whine. also the only thing that outranges shredders on the ground from what ive read is hydras. so again it just shows that u have no clue on what these units can actually do even in ur theorycrafting mind. Are hydras a siege unit? Also, you'd have to be extremely retarded to not understand how fundamentally broken a pull/melee only cloud ability would be in TvZ. Seriously. Melee range marines/tanks versus ling/bling? Have fun! Trying to run away? nuh-uh, fungal growth! No infestors? who cares, lings are still fucking ninjas *facepalm* the only "siege unit" zerg has really is broodlord. the "swarm host" launches locusts and its the LOCUSTS that atk and do actual damage and there melee, so they will activate the shredders. and die. god forbid blizz makes a unit that makes the terran actually micro. Yeah. Brood lords. So what? It's not like you're going to see shredders replace siege tanks. and LOL. Make the terran micro? Let's see -Marine splits -Siege/unsiege -Make sure no tanks get sniped -Pre-emptive spread for fungal -Ghosts to EMP infestors -Make sure no lings get into any of your bases, because you need to have no more than 2 down on the zerg to stay in the game, hardly staying even Versus -1a with lings/blings -focus tanks with mutas while marines are running away from the near-instagibbage -do a runby with like 8 cracklings -Make like a toss and spam the F button you are insanely biased. siege/unsieging is micro to u? ok then.... so you dont consider spreading your infestors micro? you dont consider muta harass and magic boxing thors to lessen splash dmg micro? you dont consider splitting your banelings in order to lessen splash damage from tanks micro? and how is it you consider EMPing infestors to be micro, but spamming fungal growth or using the vipers abilities isnt? seriously, just stop with your nonsensical whine. wasn't addressing the viper. Spamming fungal =/=EMP because it isn't fatal if you miss it, you probably have like 8 or 9 infestors because fuck yes 4 bases and spawn larva and macro hatches, you can split banes preemptively and not have anything to worry about, and banes do damage when they die anyway. The only time i really see someone magic box is when they're harassing and you have a thor in your main, and it's not like losing 4 mutas is going to kill you~you made them build thors/turrets/leave marines behind.
lol emp has a large AOE. how can ANYONE miss with it? and as for the rest of your post i honestly have no idea what you are trying to prove. splitting banelings take just as much micro as splitting marines. a thor usually always out to counter mutas so your always going to be magic boxing. and turrets are not that expensive seeing has u have like 3-4 orbitals all spamming mules.
also loosing 4 mutas is a big deal. thats 400 minerals and 400 gas that have done nothing. people forget how expensive mutas are it seems. you have to do significant damage or they are a wasted investment. and in order to do significant damage without them dying needlessly requires alot of micro. if u let 2 mutas die to 1 missle turret then you just lost 200 minerals and 200 gas to 1 turret. that is bad....
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Seriously, if Blizzard is going to "balance" the game this way, they might as well make a separate casual version of SC2. The shredder is just ridiculous, as if PF's weren't a good enough runby denier. Now with vipers, zerg wants a unit to die? Just click on it. The new thor is "a-move friendly," mothership was taken out because if people don't use the spells, the unit isn't as good. Battle hellion so terran doesn't have to kite.
And instead of balancing the protoss, let's just allow them to copy other race's good units. That way it will be objectively impossible to call protoss underpowered.
And look at the art direction. Viper is a flying hydralisk head. Warhound is a big, walking SCV. All 3 new protoss units are basicaly variations on circles. Could they get any less creative? These changes are really, really disappointing.
Just realized that shredders are a really, really easy way for Terran to push a game to the late game. Get a couple placed at all the important chokes, and you force siege, air, or some suicide attack (unless it only effects biological units). And that carriers were removed just shows that Blizzard isn't even trying to keep the spirit of BW alive anymore.
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On October 22 2011 13:21 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 13:16 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 13:08 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 13:00 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:55 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:49 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:43 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:40 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:38 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:33 Active.815 wrote:
[quote]
Spread vipers to save them, durp-de-durr, like the colossus-stalker/viking interaction
We've seen pull work=ridiculous vs tanks
Again, if the cloud works at all like what they said, even if it's just against ground, unless you snipe vipers before an engagement you're dead.
beyond stupid is what this unit would do to TvZ if it doesn't get nerfed. you make me rofl. im done with this retarded argument. if you think that a unit that hasn't even been released yet is imba and needs nerfing before its even tested then that says alot about the mentality of balance whiners in this thread. i do however find it funny how u havent commented about shredders yet and what they will do in TvZ. Uh, replace leaving a tank or two at each expansion? hoo baby! slightly less expensive anti counterattack unit that doesn't work with anything friendly nearby, and can be outranged by siege units? Awesome, lemme cover the map with those babies while not building anything from my factories in the meantime, and probably spending all my gas! Argument=retarded because you can't win, lol no. the argument is retarded because you are balancing whining and QQing about a unit you know nothing about. in other words you are whining just to whine. also the only thing that outranges shredders on the ground from what ive read is hydras. so again it just shows that u have no clue on what these units can actually do even in ur theorycrafting mind. Are hydras a siege unit? Also, you'd have to be extremely retarded to not understand how fundamentally broken a pull/melee only cloud ability would be in TvZ. Seriously. Melee range marines/tanks versus ling/bling? Have fun! Trying to run away? nuh-uh, fungal growth! No infestors? who cares, lings are still fucking ninjas *facepalm* the only "siege unit" zerg has really is broodlord. the "swarm host" launches locusts and its the LOCUSTS that atk and do actual damage and there melee, so they will activate the shredders. and die. god forbid blizz makes a unit that makes the terran actually micro. Yeah. Brood lords. So what? It's not like you're going to see shredders replace siege tanks. and LOL. Make the terran micro? Let's see -Marine splits -Siege/unsiege -Make sure no tanks get sniped -Pre-emptive spread for fungal -Ghosts to EMP infestors -Make sure no lings get into any of your bases, because you need to have no more than 2 down on the zerg to stay in the game, hardly staying even Versus -1a with lings/blings -focus tanks with mutas while marines are running away from the near-instagibbage -do a runby with like 8 cracklings -Make like a toss and spam the F button you are insanely biased. siege/unsieging is micro to u? ok then.... so you dont consider spreading your infestors micro? you dont consider muta harass and magic boxing thors to lessen splash dmg micro? you dont consider splitting your banelings in order to lessen splash damage from tanks micro? and how is it you consider EMPing infestors to be micro, but spamming fungal growth or using the vipers abilities isnt? seriously, just stop with your nonsensical whine. wasn't addressing the viper. Spamming fungal =/=EMP because it isn't fatal if you miss it, you probably have like 8 or 9 infestors because fuck yes 4 bases and spawn larva and macro hatches, you can split banes preemptively and not have anything to worry about, and banes do damage when they die anyway. The only time i really see someone magic box is when they're harassing and you have a thor in your main, and it's not like losing 4 mutas is going to kill you~you made them build thors/turrets/leave marines behind. lol emp has a large AOE. how can ANYONE miss with it? and as for the rest of your post i honestly have no idea what you are trying to prove. splitting banelings take just as much micro as splitting marines. a thor usually always out to counter mutas so your always going to be magic boxing. and turrets are not that expensive seeing has u have like 3-4 orbitals all spamming mules. also loosing 4 mutas is a big deal. thats 400 minerals and 400 gas that have done nothing.
Overseers+zerg army>Ghost
400 mins/400 gas to force thors, turrets, and T leaving marines at home. Yeah, how lame!
Predone splits=/=Having to run away in the heat of the moment
1 thor vs 20 mutas->fly around
And ofc, no scans going down because who would want to clear creep?
User was warned for this post
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On October 22 2011 13:21 Active.815 wrote:
From reddit's sc2 breakdown thread
Q1: What direction are you trying to go with the multiplay, and which unit do you think is going to be the most game changing?
We're trying to add more strategies to the game - as always. As diverse matchups as possible.
Dustin: I'm most nervous about the Replicant. It's a lot of fun, but I'm afraid of it being broken. I'm afraid that terrans will stop making siege tanks because they're afraid of the Replicant copying it, and thus resulting in removing units from the game - not adding.
Kim: I'm most scared of the Viper. Because terran players rely on tanks for defence, and if you can shut that down - it's scary. Same for protoss and colossus.
so what is toss going to do when vipers take out your colossus instantly and your gateway army gets rolled over by the new fast hydralisks?
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On October 22 2011 13:22 Enigmoid wrote:
Seriously, if Blizzard is going to "balance" the game this way, they might as well make a separate casual version of SC2. The shredder is just ridiculous, as if PF's weren't a good enough runby denier. Now with vipers, zerg wants a unit to die? Just click on it. The new thor is "a-move friendly," mothership was taken out because if people don't use the spells, the unit isn't as good. Battle hellion so terran doesn't have to kite.
And instead of balancing the protoss, let's just allow them to copy other race's good units. That way it will be objectively impossible to call protoss underpowered.
And look at the art direction. Viper is a flying hydralisk head. Warhound is a big, walking SCV. All 3 new protoss units are basicaly variations on circles. Could they get any less creative? These changes are really, really disappointing.
LOL VARIATIONS ON CIRCLES!
yeah man all those terran units fucking variations on rectangles fuck blizzard fire whole art dept please.
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On October 22 2011 13:26 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 13:21 Active.815 wrote:
From reddit's sc2 breakdown thread
Q1: What direction are you trying to go with the multiplay, and which unit do you think is going to be the most game changing?
We're trying to add more strategies to the game - as always. As diverse matchups as possible.
Dustin: I'm most nervous about the Replicant. It's a lot of fun, but I'm afraid of it being broken. I'm afraid that terrans will stop making siege tanks because they're afraid of the Replicant copying it, and thus resulting in removing units from the game - not adding.
Kim: I'm most scared of the Viper. Because terran players rely on tanks for defence, and if you can shut that down - it's scary. Same for protoss and colossus.
so what is toss going to do when vipers take out your colossus instantly and your gateway army gets rolled over by the new fast hydralisks?
Lose.
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On October 22 2011 13:26 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 13:21 Active.815 wrote:
From reddit's sc2 breakdown thread
Q1: What direction are you trying to go with the multiplay, and which unit do you think is going to be the most game changing?
We're trying to add more strategies to the game - as always. As diverse matchups as possible.
Dustin: I'm most nervous about the Replicant. It's a lot of fun, but I'm afraid of it being broken. I'm afraid that terrans will stop making siege tanks because they're afraid of the Replicant copying it, and thus resulting in removing units from the game - not adding.
Kim: I'm most scared of the Viper. Because terran players rely on tanks for defence, and if you can shut that down - it's scary. Same for protoss and colossus.
so what is toss going to do when vipers take out your colossus instantly and your gateway army gets rolled over by the new fast hydralisks?
Seems like blizzard expects protoss players to use replicants on vipers to counter vipers... I can't see what else would work effectively.
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On October 22 2011 13:21 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 13:16 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 13:08 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 13:00 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:55 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:49 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:43 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:40 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:38 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:33 Active.815 wrote:
[quote]
Spread vipers to save them, durp-de-durr, like the colossus-stalker/viking interaction
We've seen pull work=ridiculous vs tanks
Again, if the cloud works at all like what they said, even if it's just against ground, unless you snipe vipers before an engagement you're dead.
beyond stupid is what this unit would do to TvZ if it doesn't get nerfed. you make me rofl. im done with this retarded argument. if you think that a unit that hasn't even been released yet is imba and needs nerfing before its even tested then that says alot about the mentality of balance whiners in this thread. i do however find it funny how u havent commented about shredders yet and what they will do in TvZ. Uh, replace leaving a tank or two at each expansion? hoo baby! slightly less expensive anti counterattack unit that doesn't work with anything friendly nearby, and can be outranged by siege units? Awesome, lemme cover the map with those babies while not building anything from my factories in the meantime, and probably spending all my gas! Argument=retarded because you can't win, lol no. the argument is retarded because you are balancing whining and QQing about a unit you know nothing about. in other words you are whining just to whine. also the only thing that outranges shredders on the ground from what ive read is hydras. so again it just shows that u have no clue on what these units can actually do even in ur theorycrafting mind. Are hydras a siege unit? Also, you'd have to be extremely retarded to not understand how fundamentally broken a pull/melee only cloud ability would be in TvZ. Seriously. Melee range marines/tanks versus ling/bling? Have fun! Trying to run away? nuh-uh, fungal growth! No infestors? who cares, lings are still fucking ninjas *facepalm* the only "siege unit" zerg has really is broodlord. the "swarm host" launches locusts and its the LOCUSTS that atk and do actual damage and there melee, so they will activate the shredders. and die. god forbid blizz makes a unit that makes the terran actually micro. Yeah. Brood lords. So what? It's not like you're going to see shredders replace siege tanks. and LOL. Make the terran micro? Let's see -Marine splits -Siege/unsiege -Make sure no tanks get sniped -Pre-emptive spread for fungal -Ghosts to EMP infestors -Make sure no lings get into any of your bases, because you need to have no more than 2 down on the zerg to stay in the game, hardly staying even Versus -1a with lings/blings -focus tanks with mutas while marines are running away from the near-instagibbage -do a runby with like 8 cracklings -Make like a toss and spam the F button you are insanely biased. siege/unsieging is micro to u? ok then.... so you dont consider spreading your infestors micro? you dont consider muta harass and magic boxing thors to lessen splash dmg micro? you dont consider splitting your banelings in order to lessen splash damage from tanks micro? and how is it you consider EMPing infestors to be micro, but spamming fungal growth or using the vipers abilities isnt? seriously, just stop with your nonsensical whine. wasn't addressing the viper. Spamming fungal =/=EMP because it isn't fatal if you miss it, you probably have like 8 or 9 infestors because fuck yes 4 bases and spawn larva and macro hatches, you can split banes preemptively and not have anything to worry about, and banes do damage when they die anyway. The only time i really see someone magic box is when they're harassing and you have a thor in your main, and it's not like losing 4 mutas is going to kill you~you made them build thors/turrets/leave marines behind. lol emp has a large AOE. how can ANYONE miss with it? and as for the rest of your post i honestly have no idea what you are trying to prove. splitting banelings take just as much micro as splitting marines. a thor usually always out to counter mutas so your always going to be magic boxing. and turrets are not that expensive seeing has u have like 3-4 orbitals all spamming mules. also loosing 4 mutas is a big deal. thats 400 minerals and 400 gas that have done nothing.
You can miss with EMP when you need to hit the sentries or HTs which are spread out throughout the army, or at times the Archons. Against pure stalker/zealot/immortal/colossus, yeah, hard to miss. When you need to hit such specific units that may be in different places, however, it can be hard - especially if you have less EMPs than they have casters.
Losing 400 gas/400 minerals in mutas is not a big deal when you've forced your opponent to spend just as much to defend against them. If you toss 800 resources of mutas at you opponent and he builds 2 turrets and a 2 thors to defend, meanwhile you switch to roach, you have just achieved a major strategic victory. If he keeps making thors, all the better for you.
It's like a bunker rush: killing a hatchery with one is great, but if you even just force 2 or 3 spine crawlers, you've done a great job.
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On October 22 2011 13:26 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 13:21 Active.815 wrote:
From reddit's sc2 breakdown thread
Q1: What direction are you trying to go with the multiplay, and which unit do you think is going to be the most game changing?
We're trying to add more strategies to the game - as always. As diverse matchups as possible.
Dustin: I'm most nervous about the Replicant. It's a lot of fun, but I'm afraid of it being broken. I'm afraid that terrans will stop making siege tanks because they're afraid of the Replicant copying it, and thus resulting in removing units from the game - not adding.
Kim: I'm most scared of the Viper. Because terran players rely on tanks for defence, and if you can shut that down - it's scary. Same for protoss and colossus.
so what is toss going to do when vipers take out your colossus instantly and your gateway army gets rolled over by the new fast hydralisks?
templar
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can't believe the marauder is in the game when warhounds exist and do very much the same thing except only against mechanical. I guess they still need marauders for armored zerg? But I think if the warhound just gets it's +atk as armored instead of just mechanical could make it viable as a new marauder.
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On October 22 2011 13:27 m3rciless wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 13:22 Enigmoid wrote:
Seriously, if Blizzard is going to "balance" the game this way, they might as well make a separate casual version of SC2. The shredder is just ridiculous, as if PF's weren't a good enough runby denier. Now with vipers, zerg wants a unit to die? Just click on it. The new thor is "a-move friendly," mothership was taken out because if people don't use the spells, the unit isn't as good. Battle hellion so terran doesn't have to kite.
And instead of balancing the protoss, let's just allow them to copy other race's good units. That way it will be objectively impossible to call protoss underpowered.
And look at the art direction. Viper is a flying hydralisk head. Warhound is a big, walking SCV. All 3 new protoss units are basicaly variations on circles. Could they get any less creative? These changes are really, really disappointing. LOL VARIATIONS ON CIRCLES! yeah man all those terran units fucking variations on rectangles fuck blizzard fire whole art dept please.
If you don't see what I'm saying, you haven't seen the three new protoss units next to each other.
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IMO, viper should be named "scorpion"
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On October 22 2011 13:27 Active.815 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 13:26 sc2holar wrote:On October 22 2011 13:21 Active.815 wrote:
From reddit's sc2 breakdown thread
Q1: What direction are you trying to go with the multiplay, and which unit do you think is going to be the most game changing?
We're trying to add more strategies to the game - as always. As diverse matchups as possible.
Dustin: I'm most nervous about the Replicant. It's a lot of fun, but I'm afraid of it being broken. I'm afraid that terrans will stop making siege tanks because they're afraid of the Replicant copying it, and thus resulting in removing units from the game - not adding.
Kim: I'm most scared of the Viper. Because terran players rely on tanks for defence, and if you can shut that down - it's scary. Same for protoss and colossus.
so what is toss going to do when vipers take out your colossus instantly and your gateway army gets rolled over by the new fast hydralisks? Lose.
The whole point is to duplicate your own viper and hook it back, LOL
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On October 22 2011 13:04 sc2holar wrote:
So the Warhound is basicly a stalker with AoE air damage and much higher ground DPS?
it better cost at least 200/100. but knowing david kim it will probably be the same as a stalker.
The Warhound is essentially a mini-Thor that's faster and more than likely cheaper, completely counter-acting the whole "only one Thor allowed on the field" thing. Not that it matters since the new Thor is ridiculously strong, now.
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these changes are absolutely mindblowing. so excited to see how its going to effect everything, cause we all now everything is about to change
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On October 22 2011 13:28 honed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 13:26 sc2holar wrote:On October 22 2011 13:21 Active.815 wrote:
From reddit's sc2 breakdown thread
Q1: What direction are you trying to go with the multiplay, and which unit do you think is going to be the most game changing?
We're trying to add more strategies to the game - as always. As diverse matchups as possible.
Dustin: I'm most nervous about the Replicant. It's a lot of fun, but I'm afraid of it being broken. I'm afraid that terrans will stop making siege tanks because they're afraid of the Replicant copying it, and thus resulting in removing units from the game - not adding.
Kim: I'm most scared of the Viper. Because terran players rely on tanks for defence, and if you can shut that down - it's scary. Same for protoss and colossus.
so what is toss going to do when vipers take out your colossus instantly and your gateway army gets rolled over by the new fast hydralisks? templar
but the viper can negate energy based habilities, can't it?
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As overpowered as Shredders seem to be, it seems that you could just bring a viper or two to pull it out of the way and into a totally useless area or even pull it towards terran units/scvs so you can still do run bys/attacks and probably surprise a defenseless Terran position.
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