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does the protoss now have some kind of unstoppable harassment? From the sc2 trailer it looked like that one flying unit can completely shutdown an entire base's mineral line, and spores can't even stop them either since they disable those too. How long does this disable last??
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On October 22 2011 12:55 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:52 SnowK wrote:Shredder
Health: 180 Oh I don't like the sound of that at all.. don't worry, just replicate it and drop it in mineral lines
doesnt it take 8 seconds to deploy? it has a radius of 7 so dont roaches sit right outside its range while being able to hit it? I dont see it being much more then a zergling/zealot deterrent
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whats strange is the metagame seems to be giving zerg stupidly strong swarm from the viper that gives siege tanks 1 range, however at the same time terrans have a stupidly overpowered shredder that combined with tanks makes it so tanks can sit behind tem and lings/stuff running in get destroyed anyway...
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On October 22 2011 12:56 Fission wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:55 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:49 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:43 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:40 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:38 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:33 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:18 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:10 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:03 Ballistixz wrote:
[quote]
you have no idea what the viper cloud does. for all we know it can only effect ground units and last only 5-10 seconds with a very short radius. you also have no clue what the cast range is on vipers so your cute patrol move corruptors would be useless if the cast range is like 4 or 5.
what i was saying was that PDD gives u enough time to snipe the vipers without u having to worry about corruptors hurting ur vikings. alternativly u can also use hunter seeker misseles since they were buffed last patch.
a: Even if it's only ground units and a short time, zerg has some of the fastest units in the game. Your ability to capitalize on the opening is only limited by your ability to 1a b: Terran would still have to snipe vipers. Thus spread them out. Thus kill vikings. If terran isn't proactive, they can't do shit. c: Spread vipers take more time to kill than you would have without seriously gimping your ground army with viking count. spread vipers are you serious right now? like i said you have no idea on how vipers work because you havent played it, so your balance whine about a unit that doesnt even exist yet (officially) makes no sense what so ever. how do you know spreading vipers is the best way to control them? i mean seriously... how can u call a unit, that u know almost nothing about except for what its skills do, imbalanced? it will change tvz yes, but calling it imbalanced just because your mind cant think of a way to deal with a unit that doesnt exist yet (officially) is beyond stupid. Spread vipers to save them, durp-de-durr, like the colossus-stalker/viking interaction We've seen pull work=ridiculous vs tanks Again, if the cloud works at all like what they said, even if it's just against ground, unless you snipe vipers before an engagement you're dead. beyond stupid is what this unit would do to TvZ if it doesn't get nerfed. you make me rofl. im done with this retarded argument. if you think that a unit that hasn't even been released yet is imba and needs nerfing before its even tested then that says alot about the mentality of balance whiners in this thread. i do however find it funny how u havent commented about shredders yet and what they will do in TvZ. Uh, replace leaving a tank or two at each expansion? hoo baby! slightly less expensive anti counterattack unit that doesn't work with anything friendly nearby, and can be outranged by siege units? Awesome, lemme cover the map with those babies while not building anything from my factories in the meantime, and probably spending all my gas! Argument=retarded because you can't win, lol no. the argument is retarded because you are balancing whining and QQing about a unit you know nothing about. in other words you are whining just to whine. also the only thing that outranges shredders on the ground from what ive read is hydras. so again it just shows that u have no clue on what these units can actually do even in ur theorycrafting mind. Are hydras a siege unit? Also, you'd have to be extremely retarded to not understand how fundamentally broken a pull/melee only cloud ability would be in TvZ. Seriously. Melee range marines/tanks versus ling/bling? Have fun! Trying to run away? nuh-uh, fungal growth! No infestors? who cares, lings are still fucking ninjas *facepalm* the only "siege unit" zerg has really is broodlord. the "swarm host" launches locusts and its the LOCUSTS that atk and do actual damage and there melee, so they will activate the shredders. and die. god forbid blizz makes a unit that makes the terran actually micro. Terran has the most micro-able units in the game, what is wrong with you.
i was talking about terrans having to micro against vipers to lessen the effect of them similiar to marine spreading.
not like its hard to run ur marines outside of the cloud instead of trying to 1a inside of it -_-.
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On October 22 2011 12:56 Disastorm wrote:
does the protoss now have some kind of unstoppable harassment? From the sc2 trailer it looked like that one flying unit can completely shutdown an entire base's mineral line, and spores can't even stop them either since they disable those too. How long does this disable last??
Those mineral force fields can be broken by attacking them I believe.
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On October 22 2011 12:57 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:55 youngminii wrote:On October 22 2011 12:52 SnowK wrote:Shredder
Health: 180 Oh I don't like the sound of that at all.. don't worry, just replicate it and drop it in mineral lines doesnt it take 8 seconds to deploy? it has a radius of 7 so dont roaches sit right outside its range while being able to hit it? I dont see it being much more then a zergling/zealot deterrent
Yeah, and it has a radius of 4 - diameter of 8.
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On October 22 2011 12:42 DrunkenTemplar wrote:
did anyone else think it was weird when david kim said that battle hellions are there to combat the problem of late game zealots? I mean really, you're worried about zealots?
Charge zealots force the matchup to remain bio heavy as it is extremely difficult to allow for large scale mech given their ability to straight up crush many late game mech armies with chargelot compositions. There are other reasons of course why mech is hard to play against versus Protoss but this is one significant factor. As demonstrated helions in battle mode can take alot of splash damage as such giving a mech focus'd player the ability to deal with the zealots.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
LOL.
Well if its true about being faster than a hellion with the ability to fly as i read somewhere, it wont be THAT bad... but 200 gas for a unit with TWENTY SHIELDS and 80hp?
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On October 22 2011 12:57 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:55 youngminii wrote:On October 22 2011 12:52 SnowK wrote:Shredder
Health: 180 Oh I don't like the sound of that at all.. don't worry, just replicate it and drop it in mineral lines doesnt it take 8 seconds to deploy? it has a radius of 7 so dont roaches sit right outside its range while being able to hit it? I dont see it being much more then a zergling/zealot deterrent
radius of 7 means it has a diameter of 14
effectively the shredder has 14 range. 7 range going out into every side
tanks sitting behind shredders will be... oh god...
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On October 22 2011 12:55 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:49 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:43 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:40 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:38 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:33 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:18 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:10 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:03 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 11:59 Active.815 wrote:
[quote]
Because 10-12 corrupters can't snipe a raven before it gets into good range for PDD, and, after that, can't remove all the energy in 1-2 volleys..
What the fuck are you talking about? PDD neutralizes a very specific type and number of shots, and Vipers make EVERYTHING melee. There's a very large difference there. Oh, and guess what, Vipers can also pull shit out of position! you have no idea what the viper cloud does. for all we know it can only effect ground units and last only 5-10 seconds with a very short radius. you also have no clue what the cast range is on vipers so your cute patrol move corruptors would be useless if the cast range is like 4 or 5. what i was saying was that PDD gives u enough time to snipe the vipers without u having to worry about corruptors hurting ur vikings. alternativly u can also use hunter seeker misseles since they were buffed last patch. a: Even if it's only ground units and a short time, zerg has some of the fastest units in the game. Your ability to capitalize on the opening is only limited by your ability to 1a b: Terran would still have to snipe vipers. Thus spread them out. Thus kill vikings. If terran isn't proactive, they can't do shit. c: Spread vipers take more time to kill than you would have without seriously gimping your ground army with viking count. spread vipers are you serious right now? like i said you have no idea on how vipers work because you havent played it, so your balance whine about a unit that doesnt even exist yet (officially) makes no sense what so ever. how do you know spreading vipers is the best way to control them? i mean seriously... how can u call a unit, that u know almost nothing about except for what its skills do, imbalanced? it will change tvz yes, but calling it imbalanced just because your mind cant think of a way to deal with a unit that doesnt exist yet (officially) is beyond stupid. Spread vipers to save them, durp-de-durr, like the colossus-stalker/viking interaction We've seen pull work=ridiculous vs tanks Again, if the cloud works at all like what they said, even if it's just against ground, unless you snipe vipers before an engagement you're dead. beyond stupid is what this unit would do to TvZ if it doesn't get nerfed. you make me rofl. im done with this retarded argument. if you think that a unit that hasn't even been released yet is imba and needs nerfing before its even tested then that says alot about the mentality of balance whiners in this thread. i do however find it funny how u havent commented about shredders yet and what they will do in TvZ. Uh, replace leaving a tank or two at each expansion? hoo baby! slightly less expensive anti counterattack unit that doesn't work with anything friendly nearby, and can be outranged by siege units? Awesome, lemme cover the map with those babies while not building anything from my factories in the meantime, and probably spending all my gas! Argument=retarded because you can't win, lol no. the argument is retarded because you are balancing whining and QQing about a unit you know nothing about. in other words you are whining just to whine. also the only thing that outranges shredders on the ground from what ive read is hydras. so again it just shows that u have no clue on what these units can actually do even in ur theorycrafting mind. Are hydras a siege unit? Also, you'd have to be extremely retarded to not understand how fundamentally broken a pull/melee only cloud ability would be in TvZ. Seriously. Melee range marines/tanks versus ling/bling? Have fun! Trying to run away? nuh-uh, fungal growth! No infestors? who cares, lings are still fucking ninjas *facepalm* the only "siege unit" zerg has really is broodlord. the "swarm host" launches locusts and its the LOCUSTS that atk and do actual damage and there melee, so they will activate the shredders. and die. god forbid blizz makes a unit that makes the terran actually micro.
Yeah. Brood lords. So what? It's not like you're going to see shredders replace siege tanks.
and LOL. Make the terran micro? Let's see
-Marine splits
-Siege/unsiege
-Make sure no tanks get sniped
-Pre-emptive spread for fungal
-Ghosts to EMP infestors
-Make sure no lings get into any of your bases, because you need to have no more than 2 down on the zerg to stay in the game, hardly staying even
Versus
-1a with lings/blings
-focus tanks with mutas while marines are running away from the near-instagibbage
-do a runby with like 8 cracklings
-Make like a toss and spam the F button
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On October 22 2011 12:58 Cyro wrote:LOL. Well if its true about being faster than a hellion with the ability to fly as i read somewhere, it wont be THAT bad... but 200 gas for a unit with TWENTY SHIELDS and 80hp?
Keep in mind that alpha is alpha, though. No numbers in it are anywhere close to final.
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On October 22 2011 12:51 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:45 0neder wrote:On October 22 2011 12:42 DrunkenTemplar wrote:
did anyone else think it was weird when david kim said that battle hellions are there to combat the problem of late game zealots? I mean really, you're worried about zealots? I thought it was very weird. I think David Kim is getting too myopic in his balance chair. First you take away imba templars, now zealots? Is protoss supposed to be the weakest race that has no chance of winning unless they land all spells perfectly? Im pretty sure he was refering to charglots verse mech play
This kinda sums up david kims balance philosophy. If a protoss unti is good against a terran unit/composition, it needs to be fixed.
When are protoss going to get a 100 mineral unit to solve our "Marine problem"`?
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On October 22 2011 12:55 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:49 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:43 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:40 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:38 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:33 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:18 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 12:10 Active.815 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:03 Ballistixz wrote:On October 22 2011 11:59 Active.815 wrote:
[quote]
Because 10-12 corrupters can't snipe a raven before it gets into good range for PDD, and, after that, can't remove all the energy in 1-2 volleys..
What the fuck are you talking about? PDD neutralizes a very specific type and number of shots, and Vipers make EVERYTHING melee. There's a very large difference there. Oh, and guess what, Vipers can also pull shit out of position! you have no idea what the viper cloud does. for all we know it can only effect ground units and last only 5-10 seconds with a very short radius. you also have no clue what the cast range is on vipers so your cute patrol move corruptors would be useless if the cast range is like 4 or 5. what i was saying was that PDD gives u enough time to snipe the vipers without u having to worry about corruptors hurting ur vikings. alternativly u can also use hunter seeker misseles since they were buffed last patch. a: Even if it's only ground units and a short time, zerg has some of the fastest units in the game. Your ability to capitalize on the opening is only limited by your ability to 1a b: Terran would still have to snipe vipers. Thus spread them out. Thus kill vikings. If terran isn't proactive, they can't do shit. c: Spread vipers take more time to kill than you would have without seriously gimping your ground army with viking count. spread vipers are you serious right now? like i said you have no idea on how vipers work because you havent played it, so your balance whine about a unit that doesnt even exist yet (officially) makes no sense what so ever. how do you know spreading vipers is the best way to control them? i mean seriously... how can u call a unit, that u know almost nothing about except for what its skills do, imbalanced? it will change tvz yes, but calling it imbalanced just because your mind cant think of a way to deal with a unit that doesnt exist yet (officially) is beyond stupid. Spread vipers to save them, durp-de-durr, like the colossus-stalker/viking interaction We've seen pull work=ridiculous vs tanks Again, if the cloud works at all like what they said, even if it's just against ground, unless you snipe vipers before an engagement you're dead. beyond stupid is what this unit would do to TvZ if it doesn't get nerfed. you make me rofl. im done with this retarded argument. if you think that a unit that hasn't even been released yet is imba and needs nerfing before its even tested then that says alot about the mentality of balance whiners in this thread. i do however find it funny how u havent commented about shredders yet and what they will do in TvZ. Uh, replace leaving a tank or two at each expansion? hoo baby! slightly less expensive anti counterattack unit that doesn't work with anything friendly nearby, and can be outranged by siege units? Awesome, lemme cover the map with those babies while not building anything from my factories in the meantime, and probably spending all my gas! Argument=retarded because you can't win, lol no. the argument is retarded because you are balancing whining and QQing about a unit you know nothing about. in other words you are whining just to whine. also the only thing that outranges shredders on the ground from what ive read is hydras. so again it just shows that u have no clue on what these units can actually do even in ur theorycrafting mind. Are hydras a siege unit? Also, you'd have to be extremely retarded to not understand how fundamentally broken a pull/melee only cloud ability would be in TvZ. Seriously. Melee range marines/tanks versus ling/bling? Have fun! Trying to run away? nuh-uh, fungal growth! No infestors? who cares, lings are still fucking ninjas *facepalm* the only "siege unit" zerg has really is broodlord. the "swarm host" launches locusts and its the LOCUSTS that atk and do actual damage and there melee, so they will activate the shredders. and die. god forbid blizz makes a unit that makes the terran actually micro.
The Locusts have 90Hp, so they can take a fair bit of damage from Shredders. 5 shots to kill them. That's plenty of time for their 16 damage attack to take its toll.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
On October 22 2011 12:59 roymarthyup wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:57 SuperYo1000 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:55 youngminii wrote:On October 22 2011 12:52 SnowK wrote:Shredder
Health: 180 Oh I don't like the sound of that at all.. don't worry, just replicate it and drop it in mineral lines doesnt it take 8 seconds to deploy? it has a radius of 7 so dont roaches sit right outside its range while being able to hit it? I dont see it being much more then a zergling/zealot deterrent radius of 7 means it has a diameter of 14 effectively the shredder has 14 range. 7 range going out into every side tanks sitting behind shredders will be... oh god...
It has a radius of 4, not 7.
Can see based on the positions in that vid they posted of them killing like 30 lings.
I wall off there all the time, it is 9 hexes across.
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so the amazing AoE AtA attack of the 300/300 tempest is a fucking 22 damage slow hit...
better this AoE be the size of a storm....
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On October 22 2011 12:57 roymarthyup wrote:
whats strange is the metagame seems to be giving zerg stupidly strong swarm from the viper that gives siege tanks 1 range, however at the same time terrans have a stupidly overpowered shredder that combined with tanks makes it so tanks can sit behind tem and lings/stuff running in get destroyed anyway...
I wonder if a neural parasited unit can walk into the shredder area an turn it off so to speak. I still haven't figured out all the synergies, but if a Terran is commiting so much to static defense, hopefully Zerg will find other ways to gain the upper hand like more econ or drop, nydus since they are commiting a ton to defense. I just love the recall change to Nexus as a Protoss.
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On October 22 2011 12:48 blooblooblahblah wrote:
Apparantly Terran has no way to deal with chargelots in the late game.....
It is often very difficult once you've traded armies to deal with the reinforcing chargelots.
That's a world away from 'having no way to deal with chargelots in the late game'.
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sounds like zerg has some good defensive units now, but that pulling skill + banelings would be funny. reminds me of pudge pulling heroes into mines.
i hope it balances well
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On October 22 2011 13:01 rpgalon wrote:so the amazing AoE AtA attack of the 300/300 tempest is a fucking 22 damage slow hit... better this AoE be the size of a storm....
Sure looked like it in the preview video.
Unrelated, but holy shit, the Shredder hits ground AND air!?
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Protoss will stay the cute race that sucks ass in tournaments. How much gas does Blizzard want Protoss to spend? T3 is an absolute requirement with the abomination that is gateway cost efficiency and need for aoe, the gas requirements for T3 tech are 400 with building and required upgrade cost. I don't even know why Extended Thermal Lance is an upgrade. Oh, and hey, we don't want killing workers to be staple fare, so here Protoss, have a "harassment unit" whose effects last just as long as it takes for some units to arrive at a mineral line.
Someone fire that idiot already.
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EPT
