EPTAlso i never thought TvZ was doing this bad...
[September] TLPD Race Winrate Graphs - Page 9
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Aterons_toss
Romania1275 Posts
Also i never thought TvZ was doing this bad... | ||
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nt-rAven
Canada405 Posts
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nt-rAven
Canada405 Posts
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Neelia
Germany599 Posts
On October 09 2011 15:21 MuseMike wrote: You mean the game no one cared about? It was a showmatch where they did retarded builds. That same night Nestea did early 3 base on Antiga with the 3rd being the gold. Yeah, everyone, even the casters knew that people didn't take it seriously. In which games someone cared about did MC smash other people as terran? | ||
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Jojo131
Brazil1631 Posts
Just saying because it might cause people who dont observe carefully to go crazy on TL about how imbalanced ZvT is. Edit: sorry if this was already brought up before, this is actually my first time (from what I can remember) seeing this thread. Great initiative. | ||
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
On October 08 2011 02:24 zeropoint wrote: theres only 900 games this month instead of the like 3k from the other months? Could that not be because these stat's ignore mirror match ups, which from what I have seen recently there is a growing trend as a tournament progress it becomes more TvT orientated. Just be thankful the Korean tournaments are not included as the stats would be even more Terran dominated | ||
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MuseMike
United States1339 Posts
On October 09 2011 16:27 Neelia wrote: In which games someone cared about did MC smash other people as terran? No one offraces in games that mean anything. | ||
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Neelia
Germany599 Posts
On October 09 2011 16:43 Topdoller wrote: Could that not be because these stat's ignore mirror match ups, which from what I have seen recently there is a growing trend as a tournament progress it becomes more TvT orientated. Just be thankful the Korean tournaments are not included as the stats would be even more Terran dominated "This Chart both contains the International and Korean data" Korean Data is basically GS(T)L, AoL, Iccup Korean Weekly, WCG and FXO Koth. | ||
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
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InFi.asc
Germany518 Posts
On October 09 2011 16:59 Topdoller wrote: Well if that's the case then the game is reasonably balanced at Pro level, which is good considering Blizzard is aiming the game at Esports http://www.gomtv.net/records/index.gom?searchType=3&race=T&vsrace=P&season=2011&leaguetype=20&leagueid=23717&gamever=0&mapid=0 yeah. this is pro level. seriously is there no korean chart?  | ||
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Sabu113
United States11075 Posts
On October 08 2011 03:53 windsupernova wrote: yeah lets not take player skill into account. GSL will probably will be MVP, IPL dunno maybe MC? He looked really good yesterday. + Show Spoiler + He beat 1 (one!!) Korean Terran!!!!!! Blizzcon will prob be MVP or Nestea(prob MVP because he has a good record against the Tea) GSL if MVP is still as dominant as he is will prob go to Terran. But thats because MVP is a fucking Beast. But hey lets look at championships in BW! OSL # of champions 14 T(!!!) 10 Zerg 9 P Well... maybe MSL is more balanced 12 T 10 Z 4 P ... Welp I guess BW is a broken game. Someone tell Flash that he is being carried by his race. Did I make a valid point? No! The thing is that balance is something much more complicated that watching the # of champions of each race.But its obvious that you have your mind set so I guess I am just wasting time. I am not even saying the game is balanced but basing your conclusions based on solely stuff as winrates(those can change based on the strategies used, look at how TvZ evolved through the years in BW) or # of championships is just... moronic. Well if you just started watching last year I understand it might be hard for you to compare broodwar with SC2. Lets be honest here. If you actually knew what a good balanced game looked like you wouldn't be so obstinate and concede that in the current state of the game no protoss is going to win a tournament within the next year unless there is a change. Cute though saying you're not commenting about the balance of the game. Try posting in good faith and not being purposely obstinate please. | ||
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etrensce
Australia337 Posts
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ToastieNL
Netherlands845 Posts
On October 09 2011 16:59 Topdoller wrote: Well if that's the case then the game is reasonably balanced at Pro level, which is good considering Blizzard is aiming the game at Esports From a Terran POV, definitely. I think that the way to go is by fixing (I mean NERFING, BIGTIME) the Ghost. It's just not a fun and balanced unit any more. What does the Ghost do: vs Zerg: Infestors: Nullified Broodlord: Very easy to take out Ultralisk: Lose their Infestor support, so they can get kited Mutalisk: Snipe 3- shots on huge range. Counters muta- harass Banelings: in small groups, can be sniped very easilly Zerglings: regular attack Hydra's: get 2 shot, but don't really matter :-p vs Protoss: Zealot: Loses 50 HP (33.3%) + Snipeable Sentry: Loses any utility it has, and 40 HP (50%) Stalker: Loses 80 HP (50%) Dark Templar: Loses cloak and 80 HP (66.6%) High Templar: Completely nullified + Snipeable Observer: loses cloak -> dead Immortals: Lose their special beef ability, and 100 Health Collosi: Lose 150 Health Archons: Lose 300 health !!!!!!! Phoenix: Lose all their AtG capability and lose 100 Health Voidrays: Lose 150 health Carriers: Unusable (Viking) Mothership: Loses any utility it had, her Cloak effect and 350 Health. I would argue, that once Terran start to use the Ghost effectively in every matchup, like, 20 Ghost on top of their normal army composition, with Snipe micro, Terrans winrate raises to easily over 65%, causing the game to plumit into all- ins before Ghost are out. The problem of Ghosts vs Z is that you can't kill them, they blend in with Marines and your army lacks capability's to shoot them. The problem vs P is that they are SUPERIOR in any way in the Caster battle (2x Snipe = 50 Energy, Range 10 IIRC) and EMP is 75 Energy, range (effectively) 12. On top of that, they have higher movement speed, don't need to fear splash and have the highest HP of any caster on top of immediate healing. Ghost are supperior in a support role, a anti- caster role and the ability to cause damage all alone. Ghosts are imbalanced as hell. It takes no skill to blanket EMP a Protoss army, stim, a- move and win. Protoss can't retreat (Concussive, Stim, no FF) and just loses. Zerg cannot engage when Terran has Ghosts, because Ghosts break their entire end- game composition. We're just waiting for Terran to figure this out, mark my words. Kind regards PS: I recently made a thread "EMP v Protoss" in which I asked advice on how to play the battle vs EMP. The answer was: - if u get emped, sacrifice Zealots and retreat. - Just don't use Sentry / High templar - Split pre- emptively - Don't attack a terran that has Ghosts Sounds imbalanced as hell to me? What does Terran do vs Templar? 1a and blanket EMP ftw? Ezpz. Gogo Terrancraft! TL;DR - Nerf Ghosts, they will break the game once Terran figures out. | ||
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
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AnxiousHippo
Australia1451 Posts
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Namu
United States826 Posts
On October 09 2011 15:37 Aterons_toss wrote: Its sad to look at those ratios and then think Xel naga fortress /Dual sight are still in the map pool of so many tournaments. Also i never thought TvZ was doing this bad... you do realize dual sight is considered as zerg favored right daybreak + dualsight was the reason why so few terrans made it through code A quals for sept. why would you want to remove it... unless you're talking about pvz only? cause it's an awful map for toss to play on vs zerg | ||
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arbitrageur
Australia1202 Posts
Korean Terrans and Zergs been in pretty much every foreign tourney. Korean protoss? like 10% of the representation. | ||
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Gotmog
Serbia899 Posts
I am not sure, since it looks like you can either have map that is good for T/P or good for Z ? Meaning, easy expos, barren lands for surrounds etc... Maybe, by removing any viable elevator play from Terran ? And keeping chokes so P can keep using FF and not get surrounded so easily ? | ||
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JerKy
Korea (South)3013 Posts
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