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On September 21 2011 04:08 schaf wrote:
lol... every second thread turns into a totally different debate full of hate it seems...
I still can't understand people saying *yeah Col was very unprofessional because they didnt ask Mill first and talked Stephano into a contract...* blablabla
If you sign an insurance contract because the nce guy in the insurance office told it would be best for you; would you tell them to go off after you found out that they claim too much money? no, you cant! why not? because you SIGNED A CONTRACT THAT WAS LEGALLY BINDING.
I'm not sure if stephano is 18, but i think he turned that age this year, right? So if he signed a contract that was legally binding, then it is HIS FAULT! And HE should stand straight for the confusion that occured. It's not Complexity's fault for *talking him into it over night'
come on, guys...
edit: i got age ninja'd! so I don't know if you can sign a contract like this with 15, I think the parents have to confirm, too? Actually, writing in all caps doesn't give your statements the force of law. I have no idea how German law works, but French law allows you to renege insurance contracts within 15 days (30 days for life insurance). Even a swedish site knows about this.
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On September 21 2011 03:56 Omigawa wrote:So Stephano signs a contract with coL, signs another contract with Mill, and Mill is trying to extort money of coL to have Stephano? Am I reading this right? Show nested quote +...we would also like to emphasize our good will to see this situation solved the right way. It's too late for that.
Nope you are reading it wrong, the money part that is.
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On September 21 2011 04:23 daviday wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:10 Slider954 wrote:On September 21 2011 03:56 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:36 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 03:33 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:28 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 03:10 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:01 SwEEt[TearS] wrote:On September 21 2011 02:58 daviday wrote:
Things is , as lewelys said they doesnt care about gossips :
1st - Everyone will have forgoten about that in 1 week.
2nd- if teams doesnt want stephano because of that story ( witch im Sure will never happen ) , how can that be a bad news for millenium ?
3rd - i dont see how it would have any backfire on stephano regarding us tourney and stuff , since MLG keep asking players from millenium to join their tourney.
1. there's always going to be an idiot bumping the thread so no, nobody will forget in a week 2. so I guess Millenium doesn't care about Stephano? to the point they'd rather ruin his reputation and keep him than actually let him get better and have a better future? Now I understand why the only words he mustered on Lwl's stream was "j'espere avoir fait le bon choix" (I hope I took the right decision). 3. you really think [M]'s lack of professionalism will be easily forgotten? don't expect they get the same treatment from now on. ESPECIALLY with such shitty PR. On September 21 2011 03:00 daviday wrote:
BTW when Liquid took HuK from millenium there was 0 trouble... that's because they had no money for counter-offers, lol. ORLY ? 1- belive me , millenium doesnt care about US community , they only care about the french.. so US fans and stuff.. 2- They said " he made the mistake ", witch he did. So yeah they pretty mutch dont care since its not their fault , but stephano's. 3- YES ,because they were a lack of professionalism from coL , not from them , and all of theirs players will agree. And please all.. stop saying that stephano missed a huge opportunity thats FALSE. The only truth in this , is that , with an americain team you might get more exposure , and get more people on your stream so you will make more money. Daviday's Guide to Business: Before hiring an employee, make sure you tell all your competitors that you're hiring him so they have a chance to check if they should offer him a better deal. If you don't do this, you have a lack of professionalism. No you can also do it like a shark with no ethic at all, but then the shark with the most argument win , in that case millenium  . Daviday's Guide to Ethics: 1. Hiring an unemployed person as a contractor before telling all your competitors is unethical. 1a. Finding a loophole in your competitor's contract and using that to void it and reissue your own contract before your competitor realizes is, however, ethical if you're French. rev. 01 1. Being non-French is unethical. hahaha your the best one you so blind its becoming funny. IMO after having your player stolen in such a manner you can do whatever you want.. thats it. This have nothing to do with asking the permission to your competitor... this is SO DUMB to say such a thing... All the millenium staff knew people tryied to get stephano , and they werent the only one as ALL the top EURO team wanted him. He mentionned Acer for example who were particulary harsh. Its just OBVIOUS that if the other team is out of the talk , she will try everything to keep the player.. especially when thing have been done in such a hurry... If its only a buisness question ,and not an ETHIC question or a dirty move from coL then , millenium acting is just buisness aswell. In that case they just won , thats buisness , GG no need 25543543 pages. Ok, I'll try to make it simple: Stephano was not stolen from Mil, he WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT with Mil when he signed the deal with Col, do you understand. Just because he was playing under their tag does not mean he was contractually bound to them. Same thing happened when EG signed Puma, he WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT to TSL, so EG didn't steal Puma. In both cases they were free agents who were playing under a team tag with no contract. I'll say it again, they were both FREE AGENTS when they signed their contacts, hence neither EG or Col stole anything. They weren't obligated to tell the other teams what they offered. If the player wants to go back forth between the teams trying to up the offers, that's on him. It has nothing to do with the teams per say. Omg for the LAST TIME : DO A PLAYER NEED TO BE UNDER A COUNTRACT TO HAVE OBLIGATION ? AT LEAST MORAL OBLIGATION ?? OBVIOUSLY NOT. do you understand better in capslock ? I get your point about the LAW stuff and everything , and i totally agree with you and the other canadian guy. But transfering a player for a team to another is FAR from being only a legal thing. That what you seems all to forget. That why there was a problem with puma , etc.
I think the thing you need to remember is that being a progamer is a job to these players. Sure if Stephano loved Mil and wanted to stay with them, regardless of other offers, that's fine. But If I'm playing for a team with no contract, I would feel a little uncomfortable, they could drop me whenever they chose. If a big contract came my way, that pays more (again, this is his job) then of course I would take it, as long as I felt right about the new team. Mil of course could argue with Stephano about his move, but once he signed a contract, they couldn't say anything without buying out the contract from coL.
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Calgary25996 Posts
On September 21 2011 04:26 daviday wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:22 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:17 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 04:09 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:06 daviday wrote:
Okay okay , so basicly when you are a team without contract you are just a salary / expense provider , and you have no right.
=> LoL
Maybe in the US its how it works but not here sorry , or you accept to be the asshole.
I understand how you can be angry at millenium , etc.. but the only one at fault here is stephano. Yes of course that's how it works. If I pay a kid $20 to cut my grass I don't expect him to tell me when he's going to stop because he got an engineering job in Texas. Come on. Jesus Christ. HAhaha what you say doesnt even start to compare with the situation WAKE UP please. If your compagny hire a kid to cut the grass on a regular basis for 3 or 4 years , with him wearing the compagny shirt , working as a compagny member , etc. In you opinion he is still no part of the compagny cause he doesnt have a contract ?? Come on... Its ridiculous Do you follow esport since sc2 ? Because contract is a Very very new thing in esports. I belive most of the team still dont have contract / or worthless contracts. That doesnt mean players have no obligation to them... Esports is esports as a whole , its not the team with contracted players that rules them all... Esports is new, and yet, contracts have existed for hundreds of years. Weird. Man... in france most of the player salary is 50€ / month for player of the level of complexity.. would you make a contract for that.. That makes no sens.. When you make a contract for a player in france you cannot have him payed less that 1200E on that you add the taxe , that mean the team must pay 2400€/ month for contract any player. how do you want to do that ? Thats why stephano will be the first french player under contract. In here we are serious people , we dont make a contract on a napkin like coL ( /troll )
You are completely missing the point.
Would I make a contract for that? No.
Would I then be shocked when my player signed somewhere else? No.
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On September 21 2011 04:26 daviday wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:22 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:17 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 04:09 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:06 daviday wrote:
Okay okay , so basicly when you are a team without contract you are just a salary / expense provider , and you have no right.
=> LoL
Maybe in the US its how it works but not here sorry , or you accept to be the asshole.
I understand how you can be angry at millenium , etc.. but the only one at fault here is stephano. Yes of course that's how it works. If I pay a kid $20 to cut my grass I don't expect him to tell me when he's going to stop because he got an engineering job in Texas. Come on. Jesus Christ. HAhaha what you say doesnt even start to compare with the situation WAKE UP please. If your compagny hire a kid to cut the grass on a regular basis for 3 or 4 years , with him wearing the compagny shirt , working as a compagny member , etc. In you opinion he is still no part of the compagny cause he doesnt have a contract ?? Come on... Its ridiculous Do you follow esport since sc2 ? Because contract is a Very very new thing in esports. I belive most of the team still dont have contract / or worthless contracts. That doesnt mean players have no obligation to them... Esports is esports as a whole , its not the team with contracted players that rules them all... Esports is new, and yet, contracts have existed for hundreds of years. Weird. Man... in france most of the player salary is 50€ / month for player of the level of complexity.. would you make a contract for that.. That makes no sens.. When you make a contract for a player in france you cannot have him payed less that 1200E on that you add the taxe , that mean the team must pay 2400€/ month for contract any player. how do you want to do that ? Thats why stephano will be the first french player under contract. In here we are serious people , we dont make a contract on a napkin like coL ( /troll )
You are giving me fucking brain cancer.
Do you honestly think Stephano is the first French player under contract? Holy shit.
Even if that were the case, you can't be surprised when you have previous incidences establishing the contracts are necessary regardless. You think TSL has a boat full of money to pay their players? No, but their players are contracted now regardless.
If you can't afford the players, don't be surprised when a team gives them a better fucking offer.
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On September 21 2011 04:23 daviday wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:10 Slider954 wrote:On September 21 2011 03:56 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:36 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 03:33 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:28 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 03:10 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:01 SwEEt[TearS] wrote:On September 21 2011 02:58 daviday wrote:
Things is , as lewelys said they doesnt care about gossips :
1st - Everyone will have forgoten about that in 1 week.
2nd- if teams doesnt want stephano because of that story ( witch im Sure will never happen ) , how can that be a bad news for millenium ?
3rd - i dont see how it would have any backfire on stephano regarding us tourney and stuff , since MLG keep asking players from millenium to join their tourney.
1. there's always going to be an idiot bumping the thread so no, nobody will forget in a week 2. so I guess Millenium doesn't care about Stephano? to the point they'd rather ruin his reputation and keep him than actually let him get better and have a better future? Now I understand why the only words he mustered on Lwl's stream was "j'espere avoir fait le bon choix" (I hope I took the right decision). 3. you really think [M]'s lack of professionalism will be easily forgotten? don't expect they get the same treatment from now on. ESPECIALLY with such shitty PR. On September 21 2011 03:00 daviday wrote:
BTW when Liquid took HuK from millenium there was 0 trouble... that's because they had no money for counter-offers, lol. ORLY ? 1- belive me , millenium doesnt care about US community , they only care about the french.. so US fans and stuff.. 2- They said " he made the mistake ", witch he did. So yeah they pretty mutch dont care since its not their fault , but stephano's. 3- YES ,because they were a lack of professionalism from coL , not from them , and all of theirs players will agree. And please all.. stop saying that stephano missed a huge opportunity thats FALSE. The only truth in this , is that , with an americain team you might get more exposure , and get more people on your stream so you will make more money. Daviday's Guide to Business: Before hiring an employee, make sure you tell all your competitors that you're hiring him so they have a chance to check if they should offer him a better deal. If you don't do this, you have a lack of professionalism. No you can also do it like a shark with no ethic at all, but then the shark with the most argument win , in that case millenium . Daviday's Guide to Ethics: 1. Hiring an unemployed person as a contractor before telling all your competitors is unethical. 1a. Finding a loophole in your competitor's contract and using that to void it and reissue your own contract before your competitor realizes is, however, ethical if you're French. rev. 01 1. Being non-French is unethical. hahaha your the best one you so blind its becoming funny. IMO after having your player stolen in such a manner you can do whatever you want.. thats it. This have nothing to do with asking the permission to your competitor... this is SO DUMB to say such a thing... All the millenium staff knew people tryied to get stephano , and they werent the only one as ALL the top EURO team wanted him. He mentionned Acer for example who were particulary harsh. Its just OBVIOUS that if the other team is out of the talk , she will try everything to keep the player.. especially when thing have been done in such a hurry... If its only a buisness question ,and not an ETHIC question or a dirty move from coL then , millenium acting is just buisness aswell. In that case they just won , thats buisness , GG no need 25543543 pages. Ok, I'll try to make it simple: Stephano was not stolen from Mil, he WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT with Mil when he signed the deal with Col, do you understand. Just because he was playing under their tag does not mean he was contractually bound to them. Same thing happened when EG signed Puma, he WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT to TSL, so EG didn't steal Puma. In both cases they were free agents who were playing under a team tag with no contract. I'll say it again, they were both FREE AGENTS when they signed their contacts, hence neither EG or Col stole anything. They weren't obligated to tell the other teams what they offered. If the player wants to go back forth between the teams trying to up the offers, that's on him. It has nothing to do with the teams per say. Omg for the LAST TIME : DO A PLAYER NEED TO BE UNDER A COUNTRACT TO HAVE OBLIGATION ? AT LEAST MORAL OBLIGATION ?? OBVIOUSLY NOT. do you understand better in capslock ? I get your point about the LAW stuff and everything , and i totally agree with you and the other canadian guy. But transfering a player for a team to another is FAR from being only a legal thing. That what you seems all to forget. That why there was a problem with puma , etc.
...Wow.
A player doesn't need to have a contract to have an obligation, however, after he has a contract (with CoL) he has LEGAL OBLIGATION to follow on the contract, just like in any other job on the planet.
And transfering a player is strictly a legal thing, the probelem with Puma was the difference in cultures (and I was on EG's side on that, too), the problem here is not that someone simply "acts immoraly", but that someone is acting AGAINST THE LAW, Stephano signed a contract, and than disregarded it completely.
I hope Stephano and Millenium gets sued over this, eSport needs laws to ground it, just like any other form of enterntainment.
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On September 21 2011 04:26 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:23 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 04:10 Slider954 wrote:On September 21 2011 03:56 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:36 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 03:33 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:28 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 03:10 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:01 SwEEt[TearS] wrote:On September 21 2011 02:58 daviday wrote:
Things is , as lewelys said they doesnt care about gossips :
1st - Everyone will have forgoten about that in 1 week.
2nd- if teams doesnt want stephano because of that story ( witch im Sure will never happen ) , how can that be a bad news for millenium ?
3rd - i dont see how it would have any backfire on stephano regarding us tourney and stuff , since MLG keep asking players from millenium to join their tourney.
1. there's always going to be an idiot bumping the thread so no, nobody will forget in a week 2. so I guess Millenium doesn't care about Stephano? to the point they'd rather ruin his reputation and keep him than actually let him get better and have a better future? Now I understand why the only words he mustered on Lwl's stream was "j'espere avoir fait le bon choix" (I hope I took the right decision). 3. you really think [M]'s lack of professionalism will be easily forgotten? don't expect they get the same treatment from now on. ESPECIALLY with such shitty PR. On September 21 2011 03:00 daviday wrote:
BTW when Liquid took HuK from millenium there was 0 trouble... that's because they had no money for counter-offers, lol. ORLY ? 1- belive me , millenium doesnt care about US community , they only care about the french.. so US fans and stuff.. 2- They said " he made the mistake ", witch he did. So yeah they pretty mutch dont care since its not their fault , but stephano's. 3- YES ,because they were a lack of professionalism from coL , not from them , and all of theirs players will agree. And please all.. stop saying that stephano missed a huge opportunity thats FALSE. The only truth in this , is that , with an americain team you might get more exposure , and get more people on your stream so you will make more money. Daviday's Guide to Business: Before hiring an employee, make sure you tell all your competitors that you're hiring him so they have a chance to check if they should offer him a better deal. If you don't do this, you have a lack of professionalism. No you can also do it like a shark with no ethic at all, but then the shark with the most argument win , in that case millenium . Daviday's Guide to Ethics: 1. Hiring an unemployed person as a contractor before telling all your competitors is unethical. 1a. Finding a loophole in your competitor's contract and using that to void it and reissue your own contract before your competitor realizes is, however, ethical if you're French. rev. 01 1. Being non-French is unethical. hahaha your the best one you so blind its becoming funny. IMO after having your player stolen in such a manner you can do whatever you want.. thats it. This have nothing to do with asking the permission to your competitor... this is SO DUMB to say such a thing... All the millenium staff knew people tryied to get stephano , and they werent the only one as ALL the top EURO team wanted him. He mentionned Acer for example who were particulary harsh. Its just OBVIOUS that if the other team is out of the talk , she will try everything to keep the player.. especially when thing have been done in such a hurry... If its only a buisness question ,and not an ETHIC question or a dirty move from coL then , millenium acting is just buisness aswell. In that case they just won , thats buisness , GG no need 25543543 pages. Ok, I'll try to make it simple: Stephano was not stolen from Mil, he WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT with Mil when he signed the deal with Col, do you understand. Just because he was playing under their tag does not mean he was contractually bound to them. Same thing happened when EG signed Puma, he WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT to TSL, so EG didn't steal Puma. In both cases they were free agents who were playing under a team tag with no contract. I'll say it again, they were both FREE AGENTS when they signed their contacts, hence neither EG or Col stole anything. They weren't obligated to tell the other teams what they offered. If the player wants to go back forth between the teams trying to up the offers, that's on him. It has nothing to do with the teams per say. Omg for the LAST TIME : DO A PLAYER NEED TO BE UNDER A COUNTRACT TO HAVE OBLIGATION ? AT LEAST MORAL OBLIGATION ?? OBVIOUSLY NOT. do you understand better in capslock ? I get your point about the LAW stuff and everything , and i totally agree with you and the other canadian guy. But transfering a player for a team to another is FAR from being only a legal thing. That what you seems all to forget. That why there was a problem with puma , etc. So Stephano should have a moral obligation to be paid as long as he's playing for them, right? Even if he's bad. Until the end of time.
`
I wonder how old the dude is (daviday).
Seems to not understand that a contract is an agreement between two parties and it makes up the basis of human society. Whether they are written or not, they have to be respected....
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On September 21 2011 04:23 daviday wrote:
Omg for the LAST TIME :
DO A PLAYER NEED TO BE UNDER A COUNTRACT TO HAVE OBLIGATION ? AT LEAST MORAL OBLIGATION ??
OBVIOUSLY NOT.
do you understand better in capslock ?
I get your point about the LAW stuff and everything , and i totally agree with you and the other canadian guy.
But transfering a player for a team to another is FAR from being only a legal thing.
That what you seems all to forget. That why there was a problem with puma , etc.
On September 21 2011 04:26 Apom wrote:
Actually, writing in all caps doesn't give your statements the force of law.
Please daviday listen to your compatriot and stop trolling.
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On September 21 2011 04:29 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:26 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 04:22 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:17 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 04:09 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:06 daviday wrote:
Okay okay , so basicly when you are a team without contract you are just a salary / expense provider , and you have no right.
=> LoL
Maybe in the US its how it works but not here sorry , or you accept to be the asshole.
I understand how you can be angry at millenium , etc.. but the only one at fault here is stephano. Yes of course that's how it works. If I pay a kid $20 to cut my grass I don't expect him to tell me when he's going to stop because he got an engineering job in Texas. Come on. Jesus Christ. HAhaha what you say doesnt even start to compare with the situation WAKE UP please. If your compagny hire a kid to cut the grass on a regular basis for 3 or 4 years , with him wearing the compagny shirt , working as a compagny member , etc. In you opinion he is still no part of the compagny cause he doesnt have a contract ?? Come on... Its ridiculous Do you follow esport since sc2 ? Because contract is a Very very new thing in esports. I belive most of the team still dont have contract / or worthless contracts. That doesnt mean players have no obligation to them... Esports is esports as a whole , its not the team with contracted players that rules them all... Esports is new, and yet, contracts have existed for hundreds of years. Weird. Man... in france most of the player salary is 50€ / month for player of the level of complexity.. would you make a contract for that.. That makes no sens.. When you make a contract for a player in france you cannot have him payed less that 1200E on that you add the taxe , that mean the team must pay 2400€/ month for contract any player. how do you want to do that ? Thats why stephano will be the first french player under contract. In here we are serious people , we dont make a contract on a napkin like coL ( /troll ) You are giving me fucking brain cancer. Do you honestly think Stephano is the first French player under contract? Holy shit. Even if that were the case, you can't be surprised when you have previous incidences establishing the contracts are necessary regardless. You think TSL has a boat full of money to pay their players? No, but their players are contracted now regardless. If you can't afford the players, don't be surprised when a team gives them a better fucking offer.
Stephano is the first french player under contract IN FRANCE , yes
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If Stephano had a verbal contract with mil beforehand, doesn't that override the contact with coL and therefore make the coL contract void?
It seems no one is debating the fact that a verbal contract with mil was made.
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Never been a big fan of M considering that they have Adelscott, but the way they've handled this and the attitude it seems they have to the entire eSports scene that is outside of France is appalling. There's no chance of me changing my opinion on them now lol
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On September 21 2011 04:32 daviday wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:29 Mordiford wrote:On September 21 2011 04:26 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 04:22 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:17 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 04:09 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:06 daviday wrote:
Okay okay , so basicly when you are a team without contract you are just a salary / expense provider , and you have no right.
=> LoL
Maybe in the US its how it works but not here sorry , or you accept to be the asshole.
I understand how you can be angry at millenium , etc.. but the only one at fault here is stephano. Yes of course that's how it works. If I pay a kid $20 to cut my grass I don't expect him to tell me when he's going to stop because he got an engineering job in Texas. Come on. Jesus Christ. HAhaha what you say doesnt even start to compare with the situation WAKE UP please. If your compagny hire a kid to cut the grass on a regular basis for 3 or 4 years , with him wearing the compagny shirt , working as a compagny member , etc. In you opinion he is still no part of the compagny cause he doesnt have a contract ?? Come on... Its ridiculous Do you follow esport since sc2 ? Because contract is a Very very new thing in esports. I belive most of the team still dont have contract / or worthless contracts. That doesnt mean players have no obligation to them... Esports is esports as a whole , its not the team with contracted players that rules them all... Esports is new, and yet, contracts have existed for hundreds of years. Weird. Man... in france most of the player salary is 50€ / month for player of the level of complexity.. would you make a contract for that.. That makes no sens.. When you make a contract for a player in france you cannot have him payed less that 1200E on that you add the taxe , that mean the team must pay 2400€/ month for contract any player. how do you want to do that ? Thats why stephano will be the first french player under contract. In here we are serious people , we dont make a contract on a napkin like coL ( /troll ) You are giving me fucking brain cancer. Do you honestly think Stephano is the first French player under contract? Holy shit. Even if that were the case, you can't be surprised when you have previous incidences establishing the contracts are necessary regardless. You think TSL has a boat full of money to pay their players? No, but their players are contracted now regardless. If you can't afford the players, don't be surprised when a team gives them a better fucking offer. Stephano is the first french player under contract IN FRANCE , yes
Even if that were the case, tough shit dude. Korea learned this lesson a few months ago. Was the French community not paying attention.
Contract your players or don't be surprised when they are approached as free agents.
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On September 21 2011 04:33 wunsun wrote:
If Stephano had a verbal contract with mil beforehand, doesn't that override the contact with coL and therefore make the coL contract void?
It seems no one is debating the fact that a verbal contract with mil was made.
im not sure about that, but i doubt that his would be especially without an impartial third party as a witness.
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On September 21 2011 04:32 daviday wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:29 Mordiford wrote:On September 21 2011 04:26 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 04:22 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:17 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 04:09 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:06 daviday wrote:
Okay okay , so basicly when you are a team without contract you are just a salary / expense provider , and you have no right.
=> LoL
Maybe in the US its how it works but not here sorry , or you accept to be the asshole.
I understand how you can be angry at millenium , etc.. but the only one at fault here is stephano. Yes of course that's how it works. If I pay a kid $20 to cut my grass I don't expect him to tell me when he's going to stop because he got an engineering job in Texas. Come on. Jesus Christ. HAhaha what you say doesnt even start to compare with the situation WAKE UP please. If your compagny hire a kid to cut the grass on a regular basis for 3 or 4 years , with him wearing the compagny shirt , working as a compagny member , etc. In you opinion he is still no part of the compagny cause he doesnt have a contract ?? Come on... Its ridiculous Do you follow esport since sc2 ? Because contract is a Very very new thing in esports. I belive most of the team still dont have contract / or worthless contracts. That doesnt mean players have no obligation to them... Esports is esports as a whole , its not the team with contracted players that rules them all... Esports is new, and yet, contracts have existed for hundreds of years. Weird. Man... in france most of the player salary is 50€ / month for player of the level of complexity.. would you make a contract for that.. That makes no sens.. When you make a contract for a player in france you cannot have him payed less that 1200E on that you add the taxe , that mean the team must pay 2400€/ month for contract any player. how do you want to do that ? Thats why stephano will be the first french player under contract. In here we are serious people , we dont make a contract on a napkin like coL ( /troll ) You are giving me fucking brain cancer. Do you honestly think Stephano is the first French player under contract? Holy shit. Even if that were the case, you can't be surprised when you have previous incidences establishing the contracts are necessary regardless. You think TSL has a boat full of money to pay their players? No, but their players are contracted now regardless. If you can't afford the players, don't be surprised when a team gives them a better fucking offer. Stephano is the first french player under contract IN FRANCE , yes
MoOnan is French, isn't he?
I am sure there is/was a French player last season in the NASL that as French and under a contract who was not Stephano...
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On September 21 2011 04:32 daviday wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:29 Mordiford wrote:On September 21 2011 04:26 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 04:22 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:17 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 04:09 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:06 daviday wrote:
Okay okay , so basicly when you are a team without contract you are just a salary / expense provider , and you have no right.
=> LoL
Maybe in the US its how it works but not here sorry , or you accept to be the asshole.
I understand how you can be angry at millenium , etc.. but the only one at fault here is stephano. Yes of course that's how it works. If I pay a kid $20 to cut my grass I don't expect him to tell me when he's going to stop because he got an engineering job in Texas. Come on. Jesus Christ. HAhaha what you say doesnt even start to compare with the situation WAKE UP please. If your compagny hire a kid to cut the grass on a regular basis for 3 or 4 years , with him wearing the compagny shirt , working as a compagny member , etc. In you opinion he is still no part of the compagny cause he doesnt have a contract ?? Come on... Its ridiculous Do you follow esport since sc2 ? Because contract is a Very very new thing in esports. I belive most of the team still dont have contract / or worthless contracts. That doesnt mean players have no obligation to them... Esports is esports as a whole , its not the team with contracted players that rules them all... Esports is new, and yet, contracts have existed for hundreds of years. Weird. Man... in france most of the player salary is 50€ / month for player of the level of complexity.. would you make a contract for that.. That makes no sens.. When you make a contract for a player in france you cannot have him payed less that 1200E on that you add the taxe , that mean the team must pay 2400€/ month for contract any player. how do you want to do that ? Thats why stephano will be the first french player under contract. In here we are serious people , we dont make a contract on a napkin like coL ( /troll ) You are giving me fucking brain cancer. Do you honestly think Stephano is the first French player under contract? Holy shit. Even if that were the case, you can't be surprised when you have previous incidences establishing the contracts are necessary regardless. You think TSL has a boat full of money to pay their players? No, but their players are contracted now regardless. If you can't afford the players, don't be surprised when a team gives them a better fucking offer. Stephano is the first french player under contract IN FRANCE , yes
No, he is the first with a real worker contract (CDI). And it may even not be true because moman had this kind of contract too AFAIK (but not only to be a player).
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On September 21 2011 04:34 polysciguy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:33 wunsun wrote:
If Stephano had a verbal contract with mil beforehand, doesn't that override the contact with coL and therefore make the coL contract void?
It seems no one is debating the fact that a verbal contract with mil was made. im not sure about that, but i doubt that his would be especially without an impartial third party as a witness.
Apparently Stephano said that he made a verbal contract with miL on stream?
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Hong Kong9169 Posts
On September 21 2011 04:33 wunsun wrote:
If Stephano had a verbal contract with mil beforehand, doesn't that override the contact with coL and therefore make the coL contract void?
It seems no one is debating the fact that a verbal contract with mil was made.
Where are you getting that he had a verbal contract with mil? Their statement doesn't make that case.
The closest I can find to that is this:
On September 20 2011 22:18 Millenium wrote:
As you may now know, it has been announced yesterday that Stephano had been hired by team Complexity, and a few hours later, that he had finally decided to sign a permanent position contract with us, Millenium, under conditions previously fixed with him (without any intermediate overbidding).
In terms of timeframe, this still means that mil's alleged agreement happened after the coL agreement.
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On September 21 2011 04:33 wunsun wrote:
If Stephano had a verbal contract with mil beforehand, doesn't that override the contact with coL and therefore make the coL contract void?
It seems no one is debating the fact that a verbal contract with mil was made.
Well nobody is sure if there was a verbal contract between Stephano and Mil before he signed with Col. All we know is that Stephano told Mil that he would be staying with them, which can be taken as intent instead of an actual verbal agreement. There is a difference between the two. Just telling them he would stay with them w/o any actual terms being discussed isn't a verbal contract.
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On September 21 2011 04:35 carloselcoco wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:32 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 04:29 Mordiford wrote:On September 21 2011 04:26 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 04:22 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:17 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 04:09 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:06 daviday wrote:
Okay okay , so basicly when you are a team without contract you are just a salary / expense provider , and you have no right.
=> LoL
Maybe in the US its how it works but not here sorry , or you accept to be the asshole.
I understand how you can be angry at millenium , etc.. but the only one at fault here is stephano. Yes of course that's how it works. If I pay a kid $20 to cut my grass I don't expect him to tell me when he's going to stop because he got an engineering job in Texas. Come on. Jesus Christ. HAhaha what you say doesnt even start to compare with the situation WAKE UP please. If your compagny hire a kid to cut the grass on a regular basis for 3 or 4 years , with him wearing the compagny shirt , working as a compagny member , etc. In you opinion he is still no part of the compagny cause he doesnt have a contract ?? Come on... Its ridiculous Do you follow esport since sc2 ? Because contract is a Very very new thing in esports. I belive most of the team still dont have contract / or worthless contracts. That doesnt mean players have no obligation to them... Esports is esports as a whole , its not the team with contracted players that rules them all... Esports is new, and yet, contracts have existed for hundreds of years. Weird. Man... in france most of the player salary is 50€ / month for player of the level of complexity.. would you make a contract for that.. That makes no sens.. When you make a contract for a player in france you cannot have him payed less that 1200E on that you add the taxe , that mean the team must pay 2400€/ month for contract any player. how do you want to do that ? Thats why stephano will be the first french player under contract. In here we are serious people , we dont make a contract on a napkin like coL ( /troll ) You are giving me fucking brain cancer. Do you honestly think Stephano is the first French player under contract? Holy shit. Even if that were the case, you can't be surprised when you have previous incidences establishing the contracts are necessary regardless. You think TSL has a boat full of money to pay their players? No, but their players are contracted now regardless. If you can't afford the players, don't be surprised when a team gives them a better fucking offer. Stephano is the first french player under contract IN FRANCE , yes MoOnan is French, isn't he? I am sure there is/was a French player last season in the NASL that as French and under a contract who was not Stephano...
Oh you mean MoMan , in that case yes , But that another situtation , he was doing part time programmer part time working at an internet cafe and playing under this Internet cafe Tags.
That doesnt really make him a programmer imo.
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How was stephano 'stolen' from millenium. Was he under contract when he signed HIS NAME to a legally binding document to Complexity?
BTW Moral obligations don't mean jack shit compared to financial obligations. How old does one have to be to understand that simple concept.
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EPT
