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On September 22 2011 07:52 Proflo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 07:47 JawHun wrote:On September 22 2011 07:41 polysciguy wrote:On September 22 2011 07:39 sermokala wrote:On September 22 2011 02:17 gogogadgetflow wrote:On September 22 2011 02:13 FluidKMC wrote:
maybe i dont understand how the law works but how could milennium even have a case?
its a french thing. you can back out of some contracts within a 30 day grace period, maybe. any citizen can back out of a contract with a non citizen in 30 days with no penalty. Basicaly Mill is untouchable with this. source please. What he said. I would also like a source for this... I've seen it stated in multiple places adressing this topic, but I have yet to see proof of its existence... It seems extremely shifty that this law would be all encompassing....
I don't have the source with me, but if you look trough the pages of the second Stephano thread (this being the third), the source was stated many times, and how in France there is a 30 day reconsideration period for contracts.
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On September 22 2011 07:35 polysciguy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 06:07 Gevna wrote:On September 22 2011 05:53 Sqq wrote:On September 22 2011 02:33 Gevna wrote:On September 21 2011 23:42 Testuser wrote:
Hi Mill. I have no respect for you whatsoever after this (nor Stephano). Col seeks to expand e-sports, and are doing a very good job at it. I understand their frustration, and I do not wish to tune in to any casts/streaming involving your team.
I'm not angry, merely disgusted at your apparent lack of professionalism. If e-sports is going to grow, things needs to be done the right way, which you didn't. The best thing you can do right now is kick Stephano of the team, so there can at least be some fairness, we don't need such people in all honesty.
Sincerely,
me. Please, I want to understand why you are "disgusted". Because a team doesn't want the player they made big; to be stolen by anoter team ? Yeah, the way it happened is unprofessionnal, but imho, it's only stephano's fault by not really thinking about consequences, and now Mill try their best to protect him because he made a mistake. Anyway, you as me, as all of us have NO clue about what happened. You can only have an opinion about the issue, but you need to stop making this kind of disgusting assertions. As a french player, I really can't see Mill's manager pressure Stephano the way you describe it. Wait, what ? Stolen ? No contracts where there in the first place. Milleniums statement wasn't even a statement. The only side we know for sure is the one CoL has posted. So I'll side with them. Weird how Millenium avoids the matter with that worthless statement, eh ? I agrree stolen is a hard word for this, but even without contract, Stephano is a part of millenium, he is payed and play for them. Somedays before this affair, Mill's manager was confirming that Stephano will be in Millenium for the next year. So, for me there is something wrong in Col's side. About the statement, we can have the feeling that Mill is making fun of us, but maybe they don't want unlike Col, to publicize intern issues. They lack of transparence, but it's their politic, and that's seem okay for me. We don't need to know everything. Like I said, I'm not trying to put light on the issue, I'm just saying that you and me can't judge, while we know nothing. yes but just like i am currently employed by my company, without a contract i am free to leave at any time. the same situation applies.
Personally I still think a company such as Col should've gone through Mill getting Stephano, but seeing as Col said they had talks with Stephano for almost 3 weeks before he signed, Mill must've known it was going on(and statement from Col says there was kinda a bidding war, so that they didn't really go through Mill didnt end up having any effect). Then when Mill knows he has signed a contract to Col, to get him to sign with them too, saying "dont worry its not binding"...
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On September 22 2011 02:33 Gevna wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 23:42 Testuser wrote:
Hi Mill. I have no respect for you whatsoever after this (nor Stephano). Col seeks to expand e-sports, and are doing a very good job at it. I understand their frustration, and I do not wish to tune in to any casts/streaming involving your team.
I'm not angry, merely disgusted at your apparent lack of professionalism. If e-sports is going to grow, things needs to be done the right way, which you didn't. The best thing you can do right now is kick Stephano of the team, so there can at least be some fairness, we don't need such people in all honesty.
Sincerely,
me. Please, I want to understand why you are "disgusted". Because a team doesn't want the player they made big; to be stolen by anoter team ? Yeah, the way it happened is unprofessionnal, but imho, it's only stephano's fault by not really thinking about consequences, and now Mill try their best to protect him because he made a mistake. Anyway, you as me, as all of us have NO clue about what happened. You can only have an opinion about the issue, but you need to stop making this kind of disgusting assertions. As a french player, I really can't see Mill's manager pressure Stephano the way you describe it.
The irony is that you mention disgusting assertions when that is what Millenium did towards Complexity. Also you can see Complexity stealing Stephano but you can't see Millenium doing it?
Your whole post reeks of bias.
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On September 22 2011 07:58 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 07:35 polysciguy wrote:On September 22 2011 06:07 Gevna wrote:On September 22 2011 05:53 Sqq wrote:On September 22 2011 02:33 Gevna wrote:On September 21 2011 23:42 Testuser wrote:
Hi Mill. I have no respect for you whatsoever after this (nor Stephano). Col seeks to expand e-sports, and are doing a very good job at it. I understand their frustration, and I do not wish to tune in to any casts/streaming involving your team.
I'm not angry, merely disgusted at your apparent lack of professionalism. If e-sports is going to grow, things needs to be done the right way, which you didn't. The best thing you can do right now is kick Stephano of the team, so there can at least be some fairness, we don't need such people in all honesty.
Sincerely,
me. Please, I want to understand why you are "disgusted". Because a team doesn't want the player they made big; to be stolen by anoter team ? Yeah, the way it happened is unprofessionnal, but imho, it's only stephano's fault by not really thinking about consequences, and now Mill try their best to protect him because he made a mistake. Anyway, you as me, as all of us have NO clue about what happened. You can only have an opinion about the issue, but you need to stop making this kind of disgusting assertions. As a french player, I really can't see Mill's manager pressure Stephano the way you describe it. Wait, what ? Stolen ? No contracts where there in the first place. Milleniums statement wasn't even a statement. The only side we know for sure is the one CoL has posted. So I'll side with them. Weird how Millenium avoids the matter with that worthless statement, eh ? I agrree stolen is a hard word for this, but even without contract, Stephano is a part of millenium, he is payed and play for them. Somedays before this affair, Mill's manager was confirming that Stephano will be in Millenium for the next year. So, for me there is something wrong in Col's side. About the statement, we can have the feeling that Mill is making fun of us, but maybe they don't want unlike Col, to publicize intern issues. They lack of transparence, but it's their politic, and that's seem okay for me. We don't need to know everything. Like I said, I'm not trying to put light on the issue, I'm just saying that you and me can't judge, while we know nothing. yes but just like i am currently employed by my company, without a contract i am free to leave at any time. the same situation applies. Personally I still think a company such as Col should've gone through Mill getting Stephano, but seeing as Col said they had talks with Stephano for almost 3 weeks before he signed, Mill must've known it was going on(and statement from Col says there was kinda a bidding war, so that they didn't really go through Mill didnt end up having any effect). Then when Mill knows he has signed a contract to Col, to get him to sign with them too, saying "dont worry its not binding"...
It'd make no sense to go through Mill if he was already a free agent.
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Well regardless of whatever happens, Millennium has completely lost my respect. If they wanted to keep Stephano so badly, they should've outbid Complexity for him, not spend 8 hours to "convince" him to come back after he's already signed a contract.
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On September 22 2011 08:01 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 07:58 Zarahtra wrote:On September 22 2011 07:35 polysciguy wrote:On September 22 2011 06:07 Gevna wrote:On September 22 2011 05:53 Sqq wrote:On September 22 2011 02:33 Gevna wrote:On September 21 2011 23:42 Testuser wrote:
Hi Mill. I have no respect for you whatsoever after this (nor Stephano). Col seeks to expand e-sports, and are doing a very good job at it. I understand their frustration, and I do not wish to tune in to any casts/streaming involving your team.
I'm not angry, merely disgusted at your apparent lack of professionalism. If e-sports is going to grow, things needs to be done the right way, which you didn't. The best thing you can do right now is kick Stephano of the team, so there can at least be some fairness, we don't need such people in all honesty.
Sincerely,
me. Please, I want to understand why you are "disgusted". Because a team doesn't want the player they made big; to be stolen by anoter team ? Yeah, the way it happened is unprofessionnal, but imho, it's only stephano's fault by not really thinking about consequences, and now Mill try their best to protect him because he made a mistake. Anyway, you as me, as all of us have NO clue about what happened. You can only have an opinion about the issue, but you need to stop making this kind of disgusting assertions. As a french player, I really can't see Mill's manager pressure Stephano the way you describe it. Wait, what ? Stolen ? No contracts where there in the first place. Milleniums statement wasn't even a statement. The only side we know for sure is the one CoL has posted. So I'll side with them. Weird how Millenium avoids the matter with that worthless statement, eh ? I agrree stolen is a hard word for this, but even without contract, Stephano is a part of millenium, he is payed and play for them. Somedays before this affair, Mill's manager was confirming that Stephano will be in Millenium for the next year. So, for me there is something wrong in Col's side. About the statement, we can have the feeling that Mill is making fun of us, but maybe they don't want unlike Col, to publicize intern issues. They lack of transparence, but it's their politic, and that's seem okay for me. We don't need to know everything. Like I said, I'm not trying to put light on the issue, I'm just saying that you and me can't judge, while we know nothing. yes but just like i am currently employed by my company, without a contract i am free to leave at any time. the same situation applies. Personally I still think a company such as Col should've gone through Mill getting Stephano, but seeing as Col said they had talks with Stephano for almost 3 weeks before he signed, Mill must've known it was going on(and statement from Col says there was kinda a bidding war, so that they didn't really go through Mill didnt end up having any effect). Then when Mill knows he has signed a contract to Col, to get him to sign with them too, saying "dont worry its not binding"... It'd make no sense to go through Mill if he was already a free agent.
I suppose it depends on Cols knowledge before talking with stephano, if they knew he was a free agent beforehand, I assumed they probably didn't.
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What the heck? Did the OP change in the last couple days? I remember there being more, and now there is even LESS?
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On September 22 2011 08:05 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 08:01 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 22 2011 07:58 Zarahtra wrote:On September 22 2011 07:35 polysciguy wrote:On September 22 2011 06:07 Gevna wrote:On September 22 2011 05:53 Sqq wrote:On September 22 2011 02:33 Gevna wrote:On September 21 2011 23:42 Testuser wrote:
Hi Mill. I have no respect for you whatsoever after this (nor Stephano). Col seeks to expand e-sports, and are doing a very good job at it. I understand their frustration, and I do not wish to tune in to any casts/streaming involving your team.
I'm not angry, merely disgusted at your apparent lack of professionalism. If e-sports is going to grow, things needs to be done the right way, which you didn't. The best thing you can do right now is kick Stephano of the team, so there can at least be some fairness, we don't need such people in all honesty.
Sincerely,
me. Please, I want to understand why you are "disgusted". Because a team doesn't want the player they made big; to be stolen by anoter team ? Yeah, the way it happened is unprofessionnal, but imho, it's only stephano's fault by not really thinking about consequences, and now Mill try their best to protect him because he made a mistake. Anyway, you as me, as all of us have NO clue about what happened. You can only have an opinion about the issue, but you need to stop making this kind of disgusting assertions. As a french player, I really can't see Mill's manager pressure Stephano the way you describe it. Wait, what ? Stolen ? No contracts where there in the first place. Milleniums statement wasn't even a statement. The only side we know for sure is the one CoL has posted. So I'll side with them. Weird how Millenium avoids the matter with that worthless statement, eh ? I agrree stolen is a hard word for this, but even without contract, Stephano is a part of millenium, he is payed and play for them. Somedays before this affair, Mill's manager was confirming that Stephano will be in Millenium for the next year. So, for me there is something wrong in Col's side. About the statement, we can have the feeling that Mill is making fun of us, but maybe they don't want unlike Col, to publicize intern issues. They lack of transparence, but it's their politic, and that's seem okay for me. We don't need to know everything. Like I said, I'm not trying to put light on the issue, I'm just saying that you and me can't judge, while we know nothing. yes but just like i am currently employed by my company, without a contract i am free to leave at any time. the same situation applies. Personally I still think a company such as Col should've gone through Mill getting Stephano, but seeing as Col said they had talks with Stephano for almost 3 weeks before he signed, Mill must've known it was going on(and statement from Col says there was kinda a bidding war, so that they didn't really go through Mill didnt end up having any effect). Then when Mill knows he has signed a contract to Col, to get him to sign with them too, saying "dont worry its not binding"... It'd make no sense to go through Mill if he was already a free agent. I suppose it depends on Cols knowledge before talking with stephano, if they knew he was a free agent beforehand, I assumed they probably didn't.
They asked him, he said he was not in any way contractually obligated to Millenium. I see no reason for them to really lie about this and the fact that Stephano signed a contract with them would suggest that he wasn't on one with Millenium.
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On September 22 2011 07:58 pewpew444 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 07:52 Proflo wrote:On September 22 2011 07:47 JawHun wrote:On September 22 2011 07:41 polysciguy wrote:On September 22 2011 07:39 sermokala wrote:On September 22 2011 02:17 gogogadgetflow wrote:On September 22 2011 02:13 FluidKMC wrote:
maybe i dont understand how the law works but how could milennium even have a case?
its a french thing. you can back out of some contracts within a 30 day grace period, maybe. any citizen can back out of a contract with a non citizen in 30 days with no penalty. Basicaly Mill is untouchable with this. source please. What he said. I would also like a source for this... I've seen it stated in multiple places adressing this topic, but I have yet to see proof of its existence... It seems extremely shifty that this law would be all encompassing.... I don't have the source with me, but if you look trough the pages of the second Stephano thread (this being the third), the source was stated many times, and how in France there is a 30 day reconsideration period for contracts.
yes as has been stated in this thread too, however, that varies based on the type of contract, some of which don't have reconsideration periods. i believe pietr.....or someone to that effect....made a very lengthy post early with sources, none of which mentioned an all encompassing reconsideration period
here it is
+ Show Spoiler +On September 21 2011 04:40 Piotr wrote:Let’s do something serious. I wrote a first post on this subject sooner but here is another version, I can’t stand reading some fantasy stuff. (I’m French sorry for my poor English, have read TL forum for years but I have never something interesting to say so I’m new). First of all I would like to say that if Stephano signed a legal contract in US, the French jurisdiction will certainly understand that and claimed that it is perfectly legal (unless it is against international treaties but it's obviously not). In fact when you are hired by a foreign company, you have to choose with your employer which country do you choose for the law. If you don't, the law is the one where you do your job. If you move a lot for your job, the law is where your company is. The determination of the law court is totally dependent of the choice made for the applicable law. Stephano can ask to bring the case behind a French one. This is the Convention of Rome for European countries and it is used for other countries as well. Labor law in France is not mainly governed by laws but it's governed by case law and collective bargaining. The law just gives the main lines (no work under 18, no harassment etc). That's why in order to understand a case, you have to know many other cases. + Show Spoiler +The convention of Rome is a convention between European countries but all the cases between France and a foreign country that I know are stated in regard of the convention of Rome. It is the Article 3 of the French Code Civil. The convention of Rome is obviously not applied but, because France’s labor law is not law, the bases are used. Labor law in France is mainly governed by case law and collective bargaining. The law just gives the main lines (no work under 18, no harassment etc). Obviously if the foreign country breaks another convention (human rights, whatever...), convention of Rome is not used. + Show Spoiler + http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_3_du_code_civil_français « il devra consulter l'une des règles de conflit de lois contenue dans la Convention de Rome du 19 juin 1980 sur la loi applicable aux obligations contractuelles (entrée en vigueur en 1991 et liant la France, remplacée par le Règlement (CE) n° 59/2008 du 17 juin 2008 sur la loi applicable aux obligations contractuelles (Rome I), entré en vigueur le 17 décembre 2009 par le Conseil Européen), et le cas échéant, appliquer d'office la loi étrangère désignée compétente… À moins qu'il n'invoque une loi de police nationale, dont le champ d'application est territorial (v. cependant section suivante) (article 7§2 de la Convention de Rome). Auquel cas l'unilatéralisme prévaudra21, la loi de police du for (du juge saisi) sera appliquée (lex fori). H. Batiffol et P. Lagarde soulignent que les magistrats français font une application modérée de cette voie unilatéraliste, qui ouvrirait la porte au nationalisme juridique. »
he should consult one of the rules of conflict of laws contained in the Rome Convention of June 19, 1980on the law applicable to contractual obligations (entered into force in 1991 between France, replaced by Regulation (EC) No 59 / 2008 of 17 June 2008 on the law applicable to contractual obligations (Rome I), effective December 17, 2009 by the European Council), and where appropriate, automatically apply the law designated foreign jurisdiction ... unless that he cites a law of national police, whose scope isterritorial (see next section, however) (article 7 § 2 of the Rome Convention). In which case unilateralismprevails, the law of the forum (the judge) will be applied (lex fori). H. Batiffol and P. Lagarde stressed thatFrench judges are a moderate application of this unilaterally, which would open the door to legal nationalism. Stephano has apparently signed a contract with col on docusign. For those who think it’s just an informal thing, e-signing is integrated to the law of all the European countries and the United States by the ESIGN and by a European Directive from 1999. Because of the professionalism of docusign and col, I think that the contract must be totally legal and it will be accepted by a French court. Someone says that in French law you have to sign a CDI in French. That’s right but Stephano has certainly not signed for a CDI and if you want to make a contract that contains words or notions that can’t be said in French, you can if you explain in French the key terms (the commun example is the job itself). + Show Spoiler +http://www.travail-emploi-sante.gouv.fr/informations-pratiques,89/fiches-pratiques,91/contrats,109/le-contrat-de-travail-a-duree,3932.htmlLe contrat de travail constaté par écrit doit être rédigé en français. Il peut toutefois arriver que l’emploi faisant l’objet du contrat ne puisse être désigné que par un terme étranger sans correspondant en français ; dans ce cas, le contrat de travail doit comporter une explication en français du terme étranger. The employment contract must be evidenced in writing in French. However, it may happen that the usefor which the contract can not be designated as a foreign term without an equivalent in French, in which case, the contract must include an explanation in French of the term abroad. The fact is that we don’t know what Stephano has signed. Maybe it is an international contract. The French law doesn’t know international contract but the European does. I’m convinced, it depends on many facts that we don’t have, that French court will accept this contract but that’s just a personal opinion on what I have read. In France we also have something that is called loyalty (maybe not always in history but in labor law we do ) : if you sign a second contract while you have already one employer, your first employer can say "oh, that's not fair, he just has signed whit X which is a direct concurrent", and can ask for compensation. It is obvious that it the case here. A particularly clause in the contract is not required for that. So, I think that if Millenium wants to sign a contract with Stephano, the contract between col/stephano has to be cancelled. + Show Spoiler + You can find many sources on this subject, for example : http://www.cyberpro.fr/AVI_qu_est-ce_que_obligation_loyaute_salarie_patrick_cuenot.htmlPour le salarié, cette obligation consiste donc de façon générale à ne pas nuire à réputation ou au bon fonctionnement de la société employeur durant toute l’exécution du contrat de travail, notamment par des actes de dénigrement ou de concurrence contraires à l’intérêt de l’entreprise.
For employees, this obligation is therefore in general not to interfere with the functioning and reputation of the company employer throughout the contract work, including acts of defamation or of competition contrary to the interests of the company.
Thus, this is another thing that is said: if Stephano has not signed anything with millenium, he just has to quit his job with CoL and to sign with Millenium. That's not that easy. You can cancel a contract if there is a probation whitout giving a reason in France. But we have to know the contract of Stephano to state on this because international contract are not really covered by French law. Also, CoL can totally say in front of a court that Stephano quitted his job because Millenium was here (and it's obvious). Millenium’s debauch is totally legal but it can be stated by a court that it is an unfair competition and that there is a prejudice for col (economic, moral...). + Show Spoiler + It is not an usual case: on one hand in France the employee has always a preferential treatment but on the other hand you can see that as a conflict between two companies Millenium and col. On top of that esport and sport in general are not really accustomed to this kind of things. Regarding the fact that the labor law is mainly governed by case law, it’s difficult to state whitout more information. Stephano as apparently signed for a CDI with Millenium. You can set up a CDI in oral but when you do that the employer must send the employee a written document containing the information in the pre-employment declaration addressed to the URSSAF (an institution of the social security) and the future employee is not supposed to sign somewhere else...The CDI is describer by french law as the common work contract in France. An employer has to preferentially choose this kind of contract. You can translate CDI by indefinite-time contract, it means that the contract does not mention any sort of time notion. Now you are wondering how a CDI can end. Because there is no mention of time in the contract, one of the two sides of the contract (employer/employee) must show his willingness to end the contract. Then you have many cases and many formalities, I dont think that it is important to mention them here. There is also the case of force majeure that can be called. + Show Spoiler +So take a break guys, stop using caps lock or cliché about the French and the American. My opinion is that Millenium doesn't look really professional in this case. For example they promise a CDI and say that Stephano will stay 12 months, that doesn't have any sense at all in France because CDI means permanent contract so you don’t have to talk about a period when you sign it, it can be used in front of a court by Stephano if for example Millenium decide to fire him after 12 months. (I don’t think so ). Maybe they thought that I didn't need a big contract in order to keep stephano and col's proposition was a surprise... Also I think that coL will not go to court because it’s expensive and maybe useless (the judge may dismissed the case), it’s a pity because a case law would be a good thing for esport. And Stephano looks very influenced, I wonder what his parents are doing right now if the contract of col was so gainful…
spoilered for length
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On September 20 2011 22:33 gosupti wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 22:29 iNViCiOUZ wrote:
So an official anouncement fomr CompLexity over thir website, over reddit.com and over TL is "Internet gossip"? What dou you guys think you are? i think they are talking about the 150 pages of crap that appeared yesterday. and if they dont want everyone to know about their discussions with col, who cares if the problem is solved at the end. i dont get why people on a forum would be entitled to know everything about the signing of a contract.
The whole point here is that E-sports is becoming more and more professional right? Well when there is a legal matter between teams in the NFL, or even the strike recently, the people want, and deserve to be informed. What would Millennium and complexity be without the "people on a forum?" Absolutely nothing. Some dudes on a computer who happen to be good at a game. Instead, because of us, they are professional gamers. Therefore, we deserve an explanation for what is occurring, especially since complexity has, presumably, understood the aforementioned idea and given us the exact details from their perspective.
We deserve the truth. These teams answer to the fans.
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Throw it into the OP.
Big Stephano fine as most of us expected. Millenium apologizes for sounding like a nubnard.
...
And Evidently Evil Geniuses is the hero?
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On September 22 2011 08:00 Takezou wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 02:33 Gevna wrote:On September 21 2011 23:42 Testuser wrote:
Hi Mill. I have no respect for you whatsoever after this (nor Stephano). Col seeks to expand e-sports, and are doing a very good job at it. I understand their frustration, and I do not wish to tune in to any casts/streaming involving your team.
I'm not angry, merely disgusted at your apparent lack of professionalism. If e-sports is going to grow, things needs to be done the right way, which you didn't. The best thing you can do right now is kick Stephano of the team, so there can at least be some fairness, we don't need such people in all honesty.
Sincerely,
me. Please, I want to understand why you are "disgusted". Because a team doesn't want the player they made big; to be stolen by anoter team ? Yeah, the way it happened is unprofessionnal, but imho, it's only stephano's fault by not really thinking about consequences, and now Mill try their best to protect him because he made a mistake. Anyway, you as me, as all of us have NO clue about what happened. You can only have an opinion about the issue, but you need to stop making this kind of disgusting assertions. As a french player, I really can't see Mill's manager pressure Stephano the way you describe it. The irony is that you mention disgusting assertions when that is what Millenium did towards Complexity. Also you can see Complexity stealing Stephano but you can't see Millenium doing it? Your whole post reeks of bias.
I think you did not understand my point. I don't care, I'm biased by giving another pov and saying we have to suspend our judgement, yeah...
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Thanks, good news 
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On September 22 2011 08:07 Gevna wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 08:00 Takezou wrote:On September 22 2011 02:33 Gevna wrote:On September 21 2011 23:42 Testuser wrote:
Hi Mill. I have no respect for you whatsoever after this (nor Stephano). Col seeks to expand e-sports, and are doing a very good job at it. I understand their frustration, and I do not wish to tune in to any casts/streaming involving your team.
I'm not angry, merely disgusted at your apparent lack of professionalism. If e-sports is going to grow, things needs to be done the right way, which you didn't. The best thing you can do right now is kick Stephano of the team, so there can at least be some fairness, we don't need such people in all honesty.
Sincerely,
me. Please, I want to understand why you are "disgusted". Because a team doesn't want the player they made big; to be stolen by anoter team ? Yeah, the way it happened is unprofessionnal, but imho, it's only stephano's fault by not really thinking about consequences, and now Mill try their best to protect him because he made a mistake. Anyway, you as me, as all of us have NO clue about what happened. You can only have an opinion about the issue, but you need to stop making this kind of disgusting assertions. As a french player, I really can't see Mill's manager pressure Stephano the way you describe it. The irony is that you mention disgusting assertions when that is what Millenium did towards Complexity. Also you can see Complexity stealing Stephano but you can't see Millenium doing it? Your whole post reeks of bias. I think you did not understand my point. I don't care, I'm biased by giving another pov and saying we have to suspend our judgement, yeah...
and we will never know. case closed either way.
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On September 22 2011 08:07 Gevna wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 08:00 Takezou wrote:On September 22 2011 02:33 Gevna wrote:On September 21 2011 23:42 Testuser wrote:
Hi Mill. I have no respect for you whatsoever after this (nor Stephano). Col seeks to expand e-sports, and are doing a very good job at it. I understand their frustration, and I do not wish to tune in to any casts/streaming involving your team.
I'm not angry, merely disgusted at your apparent lack of professionalism. If e-sports is going to grow, things needs to be done the right way, which you didn't. The best thing you can do right now is kick Stephano of the team, so there can at least be some fairness, we don't need such people in all honesty.
Sincerely,
me. Please, I want to understand why you are "disgusted". Because a team doesn't want the player they made big; to be stolen by anoter team ? Yeah, the way it happened is unprofessionnal, but imho, it's only stephano's fault by not really thinking about consequences, and now Mill try their best to protect him because he made a mistake. Anyway, you as me, as all of us have NO clue about what happened. You can only have an opinion about the issue, but you need to stop making this kind of disgusting assertions. As a french player, I really can't see Mill's manager pressure Stephano the way you describe it. The irony is that you mention disgusting assertions when that is what Millenium did towards Complexity. Also you can see Complexity stealing Stephano but you can't see Millenium doing it? Your whole post reeks of bias. I think you did not understand my point. I don't care, I'm biased by giving another pov and saying we have to suspend our judgement, yeah...
You clearly are biased, and coL did no sort of "stealing" whatsoever since Stephano wasn't contracted. If anything, that's what Mill did.
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On September 22 2011 08:10 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 08:07 Gevna wrote:On September 22 2011 08:00 Takezou wrote:On September 22 2011 02:33 Gevna wrote:On September 21 2011 23:42 Testuser wrote:
Hi Mill. I have no respect for you whatsoever after this (nor Stephano). Col seeks to expand e-sports, and are doing a very good job at it. I understand their frustration, and I do not wish to tune in to any casts/streaming involving your team.
I'm not angry, merely disgusted at your apparent lack of professionalism. If e-sports is going to grow, things needs to be done the right way, which you didn't. The best thing you can do right now is kick Stephano of the team, so there can at least be some fairness, we don't need such people in all honesty.
Sincerely,
me. Please, I want to understand why you are "disgusted". Because a team doesn't want the player they made big; to be stolen by anoter team ? Yeah, the way it happened is unprofessionnal, but imho, it's only stephano's fault by not really thinking about consequences, and now Mill try their best to protect him because he made a mistake. Anyway, you as me, as all of us have NO clue about what happened. You can only have an opinion about the issue, but you need to stop making this kind of disgusting assertions. As a french player, I really can't see Mill's manager pressure Stephano the way you describe it. The irony is that you mention disgusting assertions when that is what Millenium did towards Complexity. Also you can see Complexity stealing Stephano but you can't see Millenium doing it? Your whole post reeks of bias. I think you did not understand my point. I don't care, I'm biased by giving another pov and saying we have to suspend our judgement, yeah... You clearly are biased, and coL did no sort of "stealing" whatsoever since Stephano wasn't contracted. If anything, that's what Mill did.
Stephano wasn't contracted by Mill... only sponsored by them over a pretty long period. Mill had a huge part in making Stephano a big name by giving him the opportunity to gain fame. Of course, they will want to keep him. This situation is pretty similar to the one with EG, Puma and TSL. And I remember that lots of people were calling it "stealing" what EG did with Puma.
I'd still say that the term "stealing" is kind of inappropriate here. Still Gevna's post isn't in any way biased since it merely states that we should "suspend our judgement" because we "have NO clue about what happened". The biased statements in this thread are the one's that put the whole blame on any of the two teams, while lacking information to make such a claim.
The only thing that Mill seem to have done wrong is to say that coL "disoriented" Stephano, which is kind of unprofessional, but partially understandable in the way that they tried to protect their player, who apparently (as stated in both teams' statement on coL's website) did a mistake.
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EPT
