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On September 21 2011 04:11 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 03:47 TheOne85 wrote:On September 21 2011 03:36 stormfoxSC wrote:
What the... what did I just read? It felt like there should have been some sort of statement in all that text, but I ended up walking away with absolutely nothing. Basically just, "We want to resolve the issue and don't believe all the gossip you hear". Okay, but is that calling Complexity's statement gossip, or simply not addressing Complexity's pretty transparent record of events + course of action?
Still waiting on a statement from Millennium regarding the Stephano controversy. This. Sounds like Millenium is just holding back simply because they know they are in the wrong. Embarassing, and extremely unprofessional to have a "statement" without an actual statement. Have you been in the real world ? Most public statements are words without meaning. Because public statements are manipulation tools, Millenium might have determined that at this point saying nothing specific is better from PR point of view than saying something (even if they would not be in the wrong it is often better to say nothing). And why people assume that col statement is actually better. They as easily could lie, then it comes down to what is worse lying or statements without meaning. I don't know. But I assume col lies and Millenium lies or at least none of them says the full truth.
Yes, but that shit makes no sense.
If Complexity's attempt at being transparent was a complete farse, then Millenium could easily have given their side of the story and said it was a complete farse. Instead they use ambiguous as fuck terms and make bogus claims without backing them up. Right now, we only have Complexity's statements to go on because Millenium has given us jack shit.
Complexity gave their side of the story and Millenium responded with, "They disoriented Stephano and their contract is shitty". That's just mud slinging and leaves us with basically nothing to go on other than Complexity's statements, furthermore Millenium's management hasn't addressed those statements directly to say that they aren't true either.
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isn't he the one got cheesed out by some 6pooling noob in some major tournament? How good can he be?
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On September 21 2011 04:09 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:06 daviday wrote:
Okay okay , so basicly when you are a team without contract you are just a salary / expense provider , and you have no right.
=> LoL
Maybe in the US its how it works but not here sorry , or you accept to be the asshole.
I understand how you can be angry at millenium , etc.. but the only one at fault here is stephano. Yes of course that's how it works. If I pay a kid $20 to cut my grass I don't expect him to tell me when he's going to stop because he got an engineering job in Texas. Come on. Jesus Christ.
HAhaha what you say doesnt even start to compare with the situation WAKE UP please.
If your compagny hire a kid to cut the grass on a regular basis for 3 or 4 years , with him wearing the compagny shirt , working as a compagny member , etc. In you opinion he is still no part of the compagny cause he doesnt have a contract ?? Come on... Its ridiculous
Do you follow esport since sc2 ? Because contract is a Very very new thing in esports. I belive most of the team still dont have contract / or worthless contracts. That doesnt mean players have no obligation to them...
Esports is esports as a whole , its not the team with contracted players that rules them all...
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Either Stephano is really really immature or Complexity did something to make Stephano sign. Just some facts :
- 5 days ago Stephano says in an interview for esportsfrance.com that despite contacts with a lot of teams he will stay with Millenum the next 12 months.
- The day before he accept complexity contract, Millenium announce a weekly show by Stephano on their webtv
- Stephano signs at 3 or 4 am CET and Millenium does not know about it.
After he signs :
- just look at Stephano reaction in the complexity news (1 line).
- Xeris seems surprised that Stephano changed team
And about Millenium, remember when Huk was with them and joined TL. It was done without drama in normal manner.
The one to blame here is Stephano, but I really think that complexity is not as clean as they say...
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On September 21 2011 04:17 daviday wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:09 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:06 daviday wrote:
Okay okay , so basicly when you are a team without contract you are just a salary / expense provider , and you have no right.
=> LoL
Maybe in the US its how it works but not here sorry , or you accept to be the asshole.
I understand how you can be angry at millenium , etc.. but the only one at fault here is stephano. Yes of course that's how it works. If I pay a kid $20 to cut my grass I don't expect him to tell me when he's going to stop because he got an engineering job in Texas. Come on. Jesus Christ. HAhaha what you say doesnt even start to compare with the situation WAKE UP please. If your compagny hire a kid to cut the grass on a regular basis for 3 or 4 years , with him wearing the compagny shirt , working as a compagny member , etc. In you opinion he is still no part of the compagny cause he doesnt have a contract ?? Come on... Its ridiculous Do you follow esport since sc2 ? Because contract is a Very very new thing in esports. I belive most of the team still dont have contract / or worthless contracts. That doesnt mean players have no obligation to them... Esports is esports as a whole , its not the team with contracted players that rules them all...
Uh actually almost all teams have contracts now.
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On September 21 2011 04:17 daviday wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:09 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:06 daviday wrote:
Okay okay , so basicly when you are a team without contract you are just a salary / expense provider , and you have no right.
=> LoL
Maybe in the US its how it works but not here sorry , or you accept to be the asshole.
I understand how you can be angry at millenium , etc.. but the only one at fault here is stephano. Yes of course that's how it works. If I pay a kid $20 to cut my grass I don't expect him to tell me when he's going to stop because he got an engineering job in Texas. Come on. Jesus Christ. HAhaha what you say doesnt even start to compare with the situation WAKE UP please. If your compagny hire a kid to cut the grass on a regular basis for 3 or 4 years , with him wearing the compagny shirt , working as a compagny member , etc. In you opinion he is still no part of the compagny cause he doesnt have a contract ?? Come on... Its ridiculous Do you follow esport since sc2 ? Because contract is a Very very new thing in esports. I belive most of the team still dont have contract / or worthless contracts. That doesnt mean players have no obligation to them... Esports is esports as a whole , its not the team with contracted players that rules them all...
contracts might be fairly new to esports, but they are not new to people. A kid might not have the full legal grasp of a contract, but most people will know at a pretty young age that signing a contract carries with it a legal obligation. SC2 players didn't just appear from a bubble.
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Calgary25979 Posts
On September 21 2011 04:17 daviday wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:09 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:06 daviday wrote:
Okay okay , so basicly when you are a team without contract you are just a salary / expense provider , and you have no right.
=> LoL
Maybe in the US its how it works but not here sorry , or you accept to be the asshole.
I understand how you can be angry at millenium , etc.. but the only one at fault here is stephano. Yes of course that's how it works. If I pay a kid $20 to cut my grass I don't expect him to tell me when he's going to stop because he got an engineering job in Texas. Come on. Jesus Christ. HAhaha what you say doesnt even start to compare with the situation WAKE UP please. If your compagny hire a kid to cut the grass on a regular basis for 3 or 4 years , with him wearing the compagny shirt , working as a compagny member , etc. In you opinion he is still no part of the compagny cause he doesnt have a contract ?? Come on... Its ridiculous Do you follow esport since sc2 ? Because contract is a Very very new thing in esports. I belive most of the team still dont have contract / or worthless contracts. That doesnt mean players have no obligation to them... Esports is esports as a whole , its not the team with contracted players that rules them all...
Esports is new, and yet, contracts have existed for hundreds of years. Weird.
Legally, and ethically, yes, it means players have literally no obligation to them whatsoever.
You realize a contract is a two-way street, right? Look at what you're saying. What if Stephano suddenly became shit and lost every game. Does the old contractless Millenium have an obligation to pay him? Of course not, they would kick him to the street and no one would blink an eye.
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On September 21 2011 04:17 daviday wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:09 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:06 daviday wrote:
Okay okay , so basicly when you are a team without contract you are just a salary / expense provider , and you have no right.
=> LoL
Maybe in the US its how it works but not here sorry , or you accept to be the asshole.
I understand how you can be angry at millenium , etc.. but the only one at fault here is stephano. Yes of course that's how it works. If I pay a kid $20 to cut my grass I don't expect him to tell me when he's going to stop because he got an engineering job in Texas. Come on. Jesus Christ. HAhaha what you say doesnt even start to compare with the situation WAKE UP please. If your compagny hire a kid to cut the grass on a regular basis for 3 or 4 years , with him wearing the compagny shirt , working as a compagny member , etc. In you opinion he is still no part of the compagny cause he doesnt have a contract ?? Come on... Its ridiculous Do you follow esport since sc2 ? Because contract is a Very very new thing in esports. I belive most of the team still dont have contract / or worthless contracts. That doesnt mean players have no obligation to them...
actually thats exactly what it means
in actual sports its the same way, player signs with x team for y years if in y-2 years (ie they are still under contract) all offers to the player have to go through the team, generally in the form of trades and draft picks. however after y years are up (contract expires) all offers go directly to the player and the player makes the decision, which is binding. the team they previously played for doesn't get a say in that.
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On September 21 2011 04:17 daviday wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:09 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:06 daviday wrote:
Okay okay , so basicly when you are a team without contract you are just a salary / expense provider , and you have no right.
=> LoL
Maybe in the US its how it works but not here sorry , or you accept to be the asshole.
I understand how you can be angry at millenium , etc.. but the only one at fault here is stephano. Yes of course that's how it works. If I pay a kid $20 to cut my grass I don't expect him to tell me when he's going to stop because he got an engineering job in Texas. Come on. Jesus Christ. HAhaha what you say doesnt even start to compare with the situation WAKE UP please. If your compagny hire a kid to cut the grass on a regular basis for 3 or 4 years , with him wearing the compagny shirt , working as a compagny member , etc. In you opinion he is still no part of the compagny cause he doesnt have a contract ?? Come on... Its ridiculous Do you follow esport since sc2 ? Because contract is a Very very new thing in esports. I belive most of the team still dont have contract / or worthless contracts. That doesnt mean players have no obligation to them... Esports is esports as a whole , its not the team with contracted players that rules them all...
Star players have contracts. Idra/Liquid players/Naniwa etc. would never have had this happen to them - Millenium is the only foreign team that got themselves in this position. They followed this up in the shadiest manner possible while Complexity responded with complete transparency (they've been in eSports for literally ever; they wouldn't bother lying now). Until Millenium fronts up with an explanation they deserve to be hated on; even your French perspective has added literally nothing new to the facts.
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On September 21 2011 04:10 Slider954 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 03:56 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:36 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 03:33 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:28 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 03:10 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:01 SwEEt[TearS] wrote:On September 21 2011 02:58 daviday wrote:
Things is , as lewelys said they doesnt care about gossips :
1st - Everyone will have forgoten about that in 1 week.
2nd- if teams doesnt want stephano because of that story ( witch im Sure will never happen ) , how can that be a bad news for millenium ?
3rd - i dont see how it would have any backfire on stephano regarding us tourney and stuff , since MLG keep asking players from millenium to join their tourney.
1. there's always going to be an idiot bumping the thread so no, nobody will forget in a week 2. so I guess Millenium doesn't care about Stephano? to the point they'd rather ruin his reputation and keep him than actually let him get better and have a better future? Now I understand why the only words he mustered on Lwl's stream was "j'espere avoir fait le bon choix" (I hope I took the right decision). 3. you really think [M]'s lack of professionalism will be easily forgotten? don't expect they get the same treatment from now on. ESPECIALLY with such shitty PR. On September 21 2011 03:00 daviday wrote:
BTW when Liquid took HuK from millenium there was 0 trouble... that's because they had no money for counter-offers, lol. ORLY ? 1- belive me , millenium doesnt care about US community , they only care about the french.. so US fans and stuff.. 2- They said " he made the mistake ", witch he did. So yeah they pretty mutch dont care since its not their fault , but stephano's. 3- YES ,because they were a lack of professionalism from coL , not from them , and all of theirs players will agree. And please all.. stop saying that stephano missed a huge opportunity thats FALSE. The only truth in this , is that , with an americain team you might get more exposure , and get more people on your stream so you will make more money. Daviday's Guide to Business: Before hiring an employee, make sure you tell all your competitors that you're hiring him so they have a chance to check if they should offer him a better deal. If you don't do this, you have a lack of professionalism. No you can also do it like a shark with no ethic at all, but then the shark with the most argument win , in that case millenium  . Daviday's Guide to Ethics: 1. Hiring an unemployed person as a contractor before telling all your competitors is unethical. 1a. Finding a loophole in your competitor's contract and using that to void it and reissue your own contract before your competitor realizes is, however, ethical if you're French. rev. 01 1. Being non-French is unethical. hahaha your the best one you so blind its becoming funny. IMO after having your player stolen in such a manner you can do whatever you want.. thats it. This have nothing to do with asking the permission to your competitor... this is SO DUMB to say such a thing... All the millenium staff knew people tryied to get stephano , and they werent the only one as ALL the top EURO team wanted him. He mentionned Acer for example who were particulary harsh. Its just OBVIOUS that if the other team is out of the talk , she will try everything to keep the player.. especially when thing have been done in such a hurry... If its only a buisness question ,and not an ETHIC question or a dirty move from coL then , millenium acting is just buisness aswell. In that case they just won , thats buisness , GG no need 25543543 pages. Ok, I'll try to make it simple: Stephano was not stolen from Mil, he WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT with Mil when he signed the deal with Col, do you understand. Just because he was playing under their tag does not mean he was contractually bound to them. Same thing happened when EG signed Puma, he WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT to TSL, so EG didn't steal Puma. In both cases they were free agents who were playing under a team tag with no contract. I'll say it again, they were both FREE AGENTS when they signed their contacts, hence neither EG or Col stole anything. They weren't obligated to tell the other teams what they offered. If the player wants to go back forth between the teams trying to up the offers, that's on him. It has nothing to do with the teams per say.
Omg for the LAST TIME :
DO A PLAYER NEED TO BE UNDER A COUNTRACT TO HAVE OBLIGATION ? AT LEAST MORAL OBLIGATION ??
OBVIOUSLY NOT.
do you understand better in capslock ?
I get your point about the LAW stuff and everything , and i totally agree with you and the other canadian guy.
But transfering a player for a team to another is FAR from being only a legal thing.
That what you seems all to forget. That why there was a problem with puma , etc.
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On September 21 2011 04:18 Nitro68 wrote:
Either Stephano is really really immature or Complexity did something to make Stephano sign. Just some facts :
- 5 days ago Stephano says in an interview for esportsfrance.com that despite contacts with a lot of teams he will stay with Millenum the next 12 months.
- The day before he accept complexity contract, Millenium announce a weekly show by Stephano on their webtv
- Stephano signs at 3 or 4 am CET and Millenium does not know about it.
After he signs :
- just look at Stephano reaction in the complexity news (1 line).
- Xeris seems surprised that Stephano changed team
And about Millenium, remember when Huk was with them and joined TL. It was done without drama in normal manner.
The one to blame here is Stephano, but I really think that complexity is not as clean as they say...
I don't know about coL doing anything particularly shady, but good points. Likely they approached him as he was a free agent, and offered him a pretty nice salary. There is no reason why they would wait for his showmatches or anything else to finish before they offer it, otherwise they essentially would never make the deal as I assume he had fairly consistant plans with Mil. Mil likely felt cheated that they were losing a player and tried to convince him otherwise. I agree that Stephano was either acting immaturely, or simply naive during this whole situation.
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On September 21 2011 04:17 daviday wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:09 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:06 daviday wrote:
Okay okay , so basicly when you are a team without contract you are just a salary / expense provider , and you have no right.
=> LoL
Maybe in the US its how it works but not here sorry , or you accept to be the asshole.
I understand how you can be angry at millenium , etc.. but the only one at fault here is stephano. Yes of course that's how it works. If I pay a kid $20 to cut my grass I don't expect him to tell me when he's going to stop because he got an engineering job in Texas. Come on. Jesus Christ. HAhaha what you say doesnt even start to compare with the situation WAKE UP please. If your compagny hire a kid to cut the grass on a regular basis for 3 or 4 years , with him wearing the compagny shirt , working as a compagny member , etc. In you opinion he is still no part of the compagny cause he doesnt have a contract ?? Come on... Its ridiculous Do you follow esport since sc2 ? Because contract is a Very very new thing in esports. I belive most of the team still dont have contract / or worthless contracts. That doesnt mean players have no obligation to them... Esports is esports as a whole , its not the team with contracted players that rules them all...
Dude, Chill is obviously new here and doesn't know that the eSport world has never heard of contracts.
Despite several fucking wake-up calls to get smart to how the world works, why the fuck would you have someone work for you for 4 years and not have them contracted? It's not that fucking difficult to get it done, particularly for a team like Millenium. Teams in Korea had a cultural excuse but here there is none, even if this happened in Korea now there would be none after the wake-up call from the EG/TSL fiasco. If a player isn't on a fucking contract, he isn't yours. It's a mechanism put in place for a reason, it's so that the player has something substantial with which he knows what he will get and what he has to give.
Stop trolling.
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Hong Kong9153 Posts
On September 21 2011 04:17 daviday wrote:
If your compagny hire a kid to cut the grass on a regular basis for 3 or 4 years , with him wearing the compagny shirt , working as a compagny member , etc. In you opinion he is still no part of the compagny cause he doesnt have a contract ?? Come on... Its ridiculous
In your opinion it may be ridiculous, but it doesn't change the fact that it is true.
On September 21 2011 04:17 daviday wrote:
Do you follow esport since sc2 ? Because contract is a Very very new thing in esports. I belive most of the team still dont have contract / or worthless contracts. That doesnt mean players have no obligation to them...
Esports is esports as a whole , its not the team with contracted players that rules them all...
Contract law has been around for a very, very long time. Contracts in traditional sports have been around for a very long time. Contracts in eSports have been around for a long time as well.
If teams that consider themselves teams and not just merely clans choose to have uncontracted players in the current climate then they are just irresponsible.
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On September 21 2011 03:49 thebig1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 03:46 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:38 thebig1 wrote:On September 21 2011 03:29 daviday wrote:
1. it have nothing to do with being elitist , it just more practical , making a team , a portal and a community is really hard. Only americain / uk team have enough english speaking people following them for them to create an international community.
3. What i mean is that , if players want / think about joining millenium , they will ask other team member of millenium ( Tarson , Stephano , Adel , Lalush , etc. ) If every promess have been kept by the organisation. I dont belive they care about the gossips/trolls from TL.NET.
Last point Mill >>>>> coL , this team got no good player , maybe Trimaster but thats pretty mutch it.
I agree on the " Korea > france " but stephano will go to korea whatsoever... lewelys said it again yesterday.
Millenium TV is the most viewed webtv in france , in all category. they have 3.5 - 4k viewer minimum for any shit show they do at anytime of the day.
Also as Lewelys said , he is still allowed to stream on justin TV , in his contract he jut got to stream a certain amount of team on the millenium TV each week, for witch he STILL get all the money.
Just a heads up, but if anything at this point you are just making things look worse to outsiders. Your (and others) posts make Mil and the community surrounding it look EXTREMELY xenophobic and nationalistic. I don't really have a problem with that if that really is the case, but it won't make the whole situation right in other people's minds. If anything it will make people think that Stephano was pulled aside after he signed teh contract and was reminded/threatened about about French pride, and how joining an evil American team is bad for the country. If that is somehow actually the case, and he is too scared to say anything about it, then that REALLY IS a shame. OFcourse he was pulled by millenium... Right... but at 18 even if you are legally an adult chances are you are still young enough where you can be pressured into things against your will... If he is pulled aside into a room from Millenium, and is given a talking to. Then suddenly changes his mind and starts singing the praise of the people who pulled him aside... Can't you see how that could be viewed negitively?
The same goes the other way. If you claim he is young and easily pressured col could have pressured him also. Both are pointless speculations. And if you go that route any contract he signed will unlikely be enforced by a court as it will be deemed invalid because of possible pressure. Or it will be enforced with extremely small compensation making it not even worth going to court.
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On September 21 2011 04:23 daviday wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:10 Slider954 wrote:On September 21 2011 03:56 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:36 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 03:33 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:28 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 03:10 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:01 SwEEt[TearS] wrote:On September 21 2011 02:58 daviday wrote:
Things is , as lewelys said they doesnt care about gossips :
1st - Everyone will have forgoten about that in 1 week.
2nd- if teams doesnt want stephano because of that story ( witch im Sure will never happen ) , how can that be a bad news for millenium ?
3rd - i dont see how it would have any backfire on stephano regarding us tourney and stuff , since MLG keep asking players from millenium to join their tourney.
1. there's always going to be an idiot bumping the thread so no, nobody will forget in a week 2. so I guess Millenium doesn't care about Stephano? to the point they'd rather ruin his reputation and keep him than actually let him get better and have a better future? Now I understand why the only words he mustered on Lwl's stream was "j'espere avoir fait le bon choix" (I hope I took the right decision). 3. you really think [M]'s lack of professionalism will be easily forgotten? don't expect they get the same treatment from now on. ESPECIALLY with such shitty PR. On September 21 2011 03:00 daviday wrote:
BTW when Liquid took HuK from millenium there was 0 trouble... that's because they had no money for counter-offers, lol. ORLY ? 1- belive me , millenium doesnt care about US community , they only care about the french.. so US fans and stuff.. 2- They said " he made the mistake ", witch he did. So yeah they pretty mutch dont care since its not their fault , but stephano's. 3- YES ,because they were a lack of professionalism from coL , not from them , and all of theirs players will agree. And please all.. stop saying that stephano missed a huge opportunity thats FALSE. The only truth in this , is that , with an americain team you might get more exposure , and get more people on your stream so you will make more money. Daviday's Guide to Business: Before hiring an employee, make sure you tell all your competitors that you're hiring him so they have a chance to check if they should offer him a better deal. If you don't do this, you have a lack of professionalism. No you can also do it like a shark with no ethic at all, but then the shark with the most argument win , in that case millenium . Daviday's Guide to Ethics: 1. Hiring an unemployed person as a contractor before telling all your competitors is unethical. 1a. Finding a loophole in your competitor's contract and using that to void it and reissue your own contract before your competitor realizes is, however, ethical if you're French. rev. 01 1. Being non-French is unethical. hahaha your the best one you so blind its becoming funny. IMO after having your player stolen in such a manner you can do whatever you want.. thats it. This have nothing to do with asking the permission to your competitor... this is SO DUMB to say such a thing... All the millenium staff knew people tryied to get stephano , and they werent the only one as ALL the top EURO team wanted him. He mentionned Acer for example who were particulary harsh. Its just OBVIOUS that if the other team is out of the talk , she will try everything to keep the player.. especially when thing have been done in such a hurry... If its only a buisness question ,and not an ETHIC question or a dirty move from coL then , millenium acting is just buisness aswell. In that case they just won , thats buisness , GG no need 25543543 pages. Ok, I'll try to make it simple: Stephano was not stolen from Mil, he WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT with Mil when he signed the deal with Col, do you understand. Just because he was playing under their tag does not mean he was contractually bound to them. Same thing happened when EG signed Puma, he WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT to TSL, so EG didn't steal Puma. In both cases they were free agents who were playing under a team tag with no contract. I'll say it again, they were both FREE AGENTS when they signed their contacts, hence neither EG or Col stole anything. They weren't obligated to tell the other teams what they offered. If the player wants to go back forth between the teams trying to up the offers, that's on him. It has nothing to do with the teams per say. Omg for the LAST TIME : DO A PLAYER NEED TO BE UNDER A COUNTRACT TO HAVE OBLIGATION ? AT LEAST MORAL OBLIGATION ?? OBVIOUSLY NOT. do you understand better in capslock ? I get your point about the LAW stuff and everything , and i totally agree with you and the other canadian guy. But transfering a player for a team to another is FAR from being only a legal thing. That what you seems all to forget. That why there was a problem with puma , etc.
I came in this thread with the intention of making everything you say look silly in one sentence, but now even I have no idea what you are talking about.
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On September 21 2011 04:23 daviday wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:10 Slider954 wrote:On September 21 2011 03:56 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:36 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 03:33 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:28 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 03:10 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:01 SwEEt[TearS] wrote:On September 21 2011 02:58 daviday wrote:
Things is , as lewelys said they doesnt care about gossips :
1st - Everyone will have forgoten about that in 1 week.
2nd- if teams doesnt want stephano because of that story ( witch im Sure will never happen ) , how can that be a bad news for millenium ?
3rd - i dont see how it would have any backfire on stephano regarding us tourney and stuff , since MLG keep asking players from millenium to join their tourney.
1. there's always going to be an idiot bumping the thread so no, nobody will forget in a week 2. so I guess Millenium doesn't care about Stephano? to the point they'd rather ruin his reputation and keep him than actually let him get better and have a better future? Now I understand why the only words he mustered on Lwl's stream was "j'espere avoir fait le bon choix" (I hope I took the right decision). 3. you really think [M]'s lack of professionalism will be easily forgotten? don't expect they get the same treatment from now on. ESPECIALLY with such shitty PR. On September 21 2011 03:00 daviday wrote:
BTW when Liquid took HuK from millenium there was 0 trouble... that's because they had no money for counter-offers, lol. ORLY ? 1- belive me , millenium doesnt care about US community , they only care about the french.. so US fans and stuff.. 2- They said " he made the mistake ", witch he did. So yeah they pretty mutch dont care since its not their fault , but stephano's. 3- YES ,because they were a lack of professionalism from coL , not from them , and all of theirs players will agree. And please all.. stop saying that stephano missed a huge opportunity thats FALSE. The only truth in this , is that , with an americain team you might get more exposure , and get more people on your stream so you will make more money. Daviday's Guide to Business: Before hiring an employee, make sure you tell all your competitors that you're hiring him so they have a chance to check if they should offer him a better deal. If you don't do this, you have a lack of professionalism. No you can also do it like a shark with no ethic at all, but then the shark with the most argument win , in that case millenium . Daviday's Guide to Ethics: 1. Hiring an unemployed person as a contractor before telling all your competitors is unethical. 1a. Finding a loophole in your competitor's contract and using that to void it and reissue your own contract before your competitor realizes is, however, ethical if you're French. rev. 01 1. Being non-French is unethical. hahaha your the best one you so blind its becoming funny. IMO after having your player stolen in such a manner you can do whatever you want.. thats it. This have nothing to do with asking the permission to your competitor... this is SO DUMB to say such a thing... All the millenium staff knew people tryied to get stephano , and they werent the only one as ALL the top EURO team wanted him. He mentionned Acer for example who were particulary harsh. Its just OBVIOUS that if the other team is out of the talk , she will try everything to keep the player.. especially when thing have been done in such a hurry... If its only a buisness question ,and not an ETHIC question or a dirty move from coL then , millenium acting is just buisness aswell. In that case they just won , thats buisness , GG no need 25543543 pages. Ok, I'll try to make it simple: Stephano was not stolen from Mil, he WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT with Mil when he signed the deal with Col, do you understand. Just because he was playing under their tag does not mean he was contractually bound to them. Same thing happened when EG signed Puma, he WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT to TSL, so EG didn't steal Puma. In both cases they were free agents who were playing under a team tag with no contract. I'll say it again, they were both FREE AGENTS when they signed their contacts, hence neither EG or Col stole anything. They weren't obligated to tell the other teams what they offered. If the player wants to go back forth between the teams trying to up the offers, that's on him. It has nothing to do with the teams per say. Omg for the LAST TIME : DO A PLAYER NEED TO BE UNDER A COUNTRACT TO HAVE OBLIGATION ? AT LEAST MORAL OBLIGATION ?? OBVIOUSLY NOT. do you understand better in capslock ? I get your point about the LAW stuff and everything , and i totally agree with you and the other canadian guy. But transfering a player for a team to another is FAR from being only a legal thing. That what you seems all to forget. That why there was a problem with puma , etc.
From a business point of view, yes. Complexity has no obligation to contact Millenium - the moral obligation is with Stephano. Guess what, Stephano contacted Millenium. Stop being so fucking stupid.
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Hong Kong9153 Posts
On September 21 2011 04:26 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:23 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 04:10 Slider954 wrote:On September 21 2011 03:56 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:36 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 03:33 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:28 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 03:10 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:01 SwEEt[TearS] wrote:On September 21 2011 02:58 daviday wrote:
Things is , as lewelys said they doesnt care about gossips :
1st - Everyone will have forgoten about that in 1 week.
2nd- if teams doesnt want stephano because of that story ( witch im Sure will never happen ) , how can that be a bad news for millenium ?
3rd - i dont see how it would have any backfire on stephano regarding us tourney and stuff , since MLG keep asking players from millenium to join their tourney.
1. there's always going to be an idiot bumping the thread so no, nobody will forget in a week 2. so I guess Millenium doesn't care about Stephano? to the point they'd rather ruin his reputation and keep him than actually let him get better and have a better future? Now I understand why the only words he mustered on Lwl's stream was "j'espere avoir fait le bon choix" (I hope I took the right decision). 3. you really think [M]'s lack of professionalism will be easily forgotten? don't expect they get the same treatment from now on. ESPECIALLY with such shitty PR. On September 21 2011 03:00 daviday wrote:
BTW when Liquid took HuK from millenium there was 0 trouble... that's because they had no money for counter-offers, lol. ORLY ? 1- belive me , millenium doesnt care about US community , they only care about the french.. so US fans and stuff.. 2- They said " he made the mistake ", witch he did. So yeah they pretty mutch dont care since its not their fault , but stephano's. 3- YES ,because they were a lack of professionalism from coL , not from them , and all of theirs players will agree. And please all.. stop saying that stephano missed a huge opportunity thats FALSE. The only truth in this , is that , with an americain team you might get more exposure , and get more people on your stream so you will make more money. Daviday's Guide to Business: Before hiring an employee, make sure you tell all your competitors that you're hiring him so they have a chance to check if they should offer him a better deal. If you don't do this, you have a lack of professionalism. No you can also do it like a shark with no ethic at all, but then the shark with the most argument win , in that case millenium . Daviday's Guide to Ethics: 1. Hiring an unemployed person as a contractor before telling all your competitors is unethical. 1a. Finding a loophole in your competitor's contract and using that to void it and reissue your own contract before your competitor realizes is, however, ethical if you're French. rev. 01 1. Being non-French is unethical. hahaha your the best one you so blind its becoming funny. IMO after having your player stolen in such a manner you can do whatever you want.. thats it. This have nothing to do with asking the permission to your competitor... this is SO DUMB to say such a thing... All the millenium staff knew people tryied to get stephano , and they werent the only one as ALL the top EURO team wanted him. He mentionned Acer for example who were particulary harsh. Its just OBVIOUS that if the other team is out of the talk , she will try everything to keep the player.. especially when thing have been done in such a hurry... If its only a buisness question ,and not an ETHIC question or a dirty move from coL then , millenium acting is just buisness aswell. In that case they just won , thats buisness , GG no need 25543543 pages. Ok, I'll try to make it simple: Stephano was not stolen from Mil, he WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT with Mil when he signed the deal with Col, do you understand. Just because he was playing under their tag does not mean he was contractually bound to them. Same thing happened when EG signed Puma, he WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT to TSL, so EG didn't steal Puma. In both cases they were free agents who were playing under a team tag with no contract. I'll say it again, they were both FREE AGENTS when they signed their contacts, hence neither EG or Col stole anything. They weren't obligated to tell the other teams what they offered. If the player wants to go back forth between the teams trying to up the offers, that's on him. It has nothing to do with the teams per say. Omg for the LAST TIME : DO A PLAYER NEED TO BE UNDER A COUNTRACT TO HAVE OBLIGATION ? AT LEAST MORAL OBLIGATION ?? OBVIOUSLY NOT. do you understand better in capslock ? I get your point about the LAW stuff and everything , and i totally agree with you and the other canadian guy. But transfering a player for a team to another is FAR from being only a legal thing. That what you seems all to forget. That why there was a problem with puma , etc. I came in this thread with the intention of making everything you say look silly in one sentence, but now even I have no idea what you are talking about.
He did your work for you, be thankful.
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On September 21 2011 04:22 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:17 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 04:09 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:06 daviday wrote:
Okay okay , so basicly when you are a team without contract you are just a salary / expense provider , and you have no right.
=> LoL
Maybe in the US its how it works but not here sorry , or you accept to be the asshole.
I understand how you can be angry at millenium , etc.. but the only one at fault here is stephano. Yes of course that's how it works. If I pay a kid $20 to cut my grass I don't expect him to tell me when he's going to stop because he got an engineering job in Texas. Come on. Jesus Christ. HAhaha what you say doesnt even start to compare with the situation WAKE UP please. If your compagny hire a kid to cut the grass on a regular basis for 3 or 4 years , with him wearing the compagny shirt , working as a compagny member , etc. In you opinion he is still no part of the compagny cause he doesnt have a contract ?? Come on... Its ridiculous Do you follow esport since sc2 ? Because contract is a Very very new thing in esports. I belive most of the team still dont have contract / or worthless contracts. That doesnt mean players have no obligation to them... Esports is esports as a whole , its not the team with contracted players that rules them all... Esports is new, and yet, contracts have existed for hundreds of years. Weird.
I stopped arguing with this guy way back when he said this:
On September 21 2011 02:42 daviday wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 02:31 AzurewinD wrote:On September 21 2011 02:19 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 02:03 Medrea wrote:On September 21 2011 01:58 daviday wrote:
Im sorry that you guys dont ear millenium side of the story , but we french all have. Since they took alot of time explaining it last night. The first time with stephano himself , and the second time with lewelys alone.
Everything we say are not assumption but simple retranscription of millenium version , wich doesnt seems less credible than the team who make people signs contract overnight.
You mean over 18 nights. Why are so many people forgetting this? Its critical! No.No.No.No. You got it wrong. Its not over 18nights its over 1 NIGHTS. How many time do we need to say IT ? They was offer and counter offer for 18 nights but ONLY the last offer count since that the one that was accepted by stephano. And THAT offer , millenium had no idea about it. More so , stephano already said he would leave to coL and then changed is mind ( as stated in the complexity message ). So basicly in the head of millenium staff he was STAYING. But there was ANOTHER offer that was accepted / signed OVERNIGHT , without millenium knowhing SHIT. *sigh* Why is Millenium entitled to know anything once the player makes up his mind and signs the contract? Is it the player's fault for accepting the next offer on the spot without turning to the other team again for the 10th time to ask for a counteroffer? He's not obligated to do that, he said up front himself that he wasn't currently under contract with Millenium. If he signed the contract at 3AM, he signed the contract at 3AM. If I'm a free-agent superstar player, and I get a six-figure deal from EG, and I sign the contract, does that mean I'm practicing shady morals because because I didn't talk to Dignitas, FXO, and TL first before signing? Of course not, I'll sign with whoever I want to sign with, whenever I want to sign because I'm a free agent and it's my choice. Hell some people in this thread are claiming there wasn't even an 18 day negotiating/counteroffering period to begin with, which is a whole other can of semantic worms. What on earth are you talking about.. Stephano is PART of team millenium even without contract... he isnt teamless.
If this is the part where the disconnect happens, then any further argument is completely futile.
It's like trying to tell someone the sky is blue when they keep insisting it's actually green.
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On September 21 2011 04:22 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:17 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 04:09 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 04:06 daviday wrote:
Okay okay , so basicly when you are a team without contract you are just a salary / expense provider , and you have no right.
=> LoL
Maybe in the US its how it works but not here sorry , or you accept to be the asshole.
I understand how you can be angry at millenium , etc.. but the only one at fault here is stephano. Yes of course that's how it works. If I pay a kid $20 to cut my grass I don't expect him to tell me when he's going to stop because he got an engineering job in Texas. Come on. Jesus Christ. HAhaha what you say doesnt even start to compare with the situation WAKE UP please. If your compagny hire a kid to cut the grass on a regular basis for 3 or 4 years , with him wearing the compagny shirt , working as a compagny member , etc. In you opinion he is still no part of the compagny cause he doesnt have a contract ?? Come on... Its ridiculous Do you follow esport since sc2 ? Because contract is a Very very new thing in esports. I belive most of the team still dont have contract / or worthless contracts. That doesnt mean players have no obligation to them... Esports is esports as a whole , its not the team with contracted players that rules them all... Esports is new, and yet, contracts have existed for hundreds of years. Weird.
Man... in france most of the player salary is 50€ / month for player of the level of complexity.. would you make a contract for that.. That makes no sens..
When you make a contract for a player in france you cannot have him payed less that 1200E on that you add the taxe , that mean the team must pay 2400€/ month for contract any player.
how do you want to do that ? Thats why stephano will be the first french player under contract.
In here we are serious people , we dont make a contract on a napkin like coL ( /troll )
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Calgary25979 Posts
On September 21 2011 04:23 daviday wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 04:10 Slider954 wrote:On September 21 2011 03:56 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:36 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 03:33 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:28 Chill wrote:On September 21 2011 03:10 daviday wrote:On September 21 2011 03:01 SwEEt[TearS] wrote:On September 21 2011 02:58 daviday wrote:
Things is , as lewelys said they doesnt care about gossips :
1st - Everyone will have forgoten about that in 1 week.
2nd- if teams doesnt want stephano because of that story ( witch im Sure will never happen ) , how can that be a bad news for millenium ?
3rd - i dont see how it would have any backfire on stephano regarding us tourney and stuff , since MLG keep asking players from millenium to join their tourney.
1. there's always going to be an idiot bumping the thread so no, nobody will forget in a week 2. so I guess Millenium doesn't care about Stephano? to the point they'd rather ruin his reputation and keep him than actually let him get better and have a better future? Now I understand why the only words he mustered on Lwl's stream was "j'espere avoir fait le bon choix" (I hope I took the right decision). 3. you really think [M]'s lack of professionalism will be easily forgotten? don't expect they get the same treatment from now on. ESPECIALLY with such shitty PR. On September 21 2011 03:00 daviday wrote:
BTW when Liquid took HuK from millenium there was 0 trouble... that's because they had no money for counter-offers, lol. ORLY ? 1- belive me , millenium doesnt care about US community , they only care about the french.. so US fans and stuff.. 2- They said " he made the mistake ", witch he did. So yeah they pretty mutch dont care since its not their fault , but stephano's. 3- YES ,because they were a lack of professionalism from coL , not from them , and all of theirs players will agree. And please all.. stop saying that stephano missed a huge opportunity thats FALSE. The only truth in this , is that , with an americain team you might get more exposure , and get more people on your stream so you will make more money. Daviday's Guide to Business: Before hiring an employee, make sure you tell all your competitors that you're hiring him so they have a chance to check if they should offer him a better deal. If you don't do this, you have a lack of professionalism. No you can also do it like a shark with no ethic at all, but then the shark with the most argument win , in that case millenium . Daviday's Guide to Ethics: 1. Hiring an unemployed person as a contractor before telling all your competitors is unethical. 1a. Finding a loophole in your competitor's contract and using that to void it and reissue your own contract before your competitor realizes is, however, ethical if you're French. rev. 01 1. Being non-French is unethical. hahaha your the best one you so blind its becoming funny. IMO after having your player stolen in such a manner you can do whatever you want.. thats it. This have nothing to do with asking the permission to your competitor... this is SO DUMB to say such a thing... All the millenium staff knew people tryied to get stephano , and they werent the only one as ALL the top EURO team wanted him. He mentionned Acer for example who were particulary harsh. Its just OBVIOUS that if the other team is out of the talk , she will try everything to keep the player.. especially when thing have been done in such a hurry... If its only a buisness question ,and not an ETHIC question or a dirty move from coL then , millenium acting is just buisness aswell. In that case they just won , thats buisness , GG no need 25543543 pages. Ok, I'll try to make it simple: Stephano was not stolen from Mil, he WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT with Mil when he signed the deal with Col, do you understand. Just because he was playing under their tag does not mean he was contractually bound to them. Same thing happened when EG signed Puma, he WAS NOT UNDER CONTRACT to TSL, so EG didn't steal Puma. In both cases they were free agents who were playing under a team tag with no contract. I'll say it again, they were both FREE AGENTS when they signed their contacts, hence neither EG or Col stole anything. They weren't obligated to tell the other teams what they offered. If the player wants to go back forth between the teams trying to up the offers, that's on him. It has nothing to do with the teams per say. Omg for the LAST TIME : DO A PLAYER NEED TO BE UNDER A COUNTRACT TO HAVE OBLIGATION ? AT LEAST MORAL OBLIGATION ?? OBVIOUSLY NOT. do you understand better in capslock ? I get your point about the LAW stuff and everything , and i totally agree with you and the other canadian guy. But transfering a player for a team to another is FAR from being only a legal thing. That what you seems all to forget. That why there was a problem with puma , etc.
So Stephano should have a moral obligation to be paid as long as he's playing for them, right? Even if he's bad. Until the end of time.
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EPT
