EPTSEA Patch 1.4 Live - Page 9
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10372 Posts
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movac
Canada494 Posts
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Benzzro
Australia167 Posts
On September 20 2011 11:02 Eps wrote: You're overestimating the abilities of the Ghost unit. You say that they're good units without spells. Can you list any other combat unit that has a non-AOE damage of 10/20 vs Light for 200/100 resources? 2.25 Move Speed is considered Fast now? After the EMP's are cast, Ghosts are essentially Useless vs Protoss. While Templars can morph into a nice Bio wrecking ball called an Archon. 1-2 Storms is able to damage a Bio-Terran's main DPS unit - Marines and potentially kill many of them and damage Marauders fairly well. The supposed "100" damage that EMP does to Protoss units is overkill in many situations. While Storms do not suffer from this. There are pros and cons from both units and abilities. And from what you're saying it is a coin flipped situation based on which player has better Micro of Casters and Army. You talk a lot about Micro-ing a Protoss Army and how hard it is. Are you forgetting how Terrans have to Micro, Spread Bio and Kite to actually be effective against Chargelot/HT/Archon armies? And of course have Ghosts ready to EMP before the enemy Casters can? The game has a micro component and it rewards whichever side micros better. I don't understand why there's so much complaints about it. Sigh... Did you actually think I meant ghosts are a great unit with no spells? Them being decent units without spells against light units is just a bonus. Infestors and HTs can't even attack. Yes 2.25 is considered fast when It's a HT vs ghost micro battle, very fast. Ghosts are not useless once you cast EMP lol...If you have like 6+ then you should have a lot of energy left over to snipe. Please don't mention Archons, they're practically useless against a lot of ghosts if they get double EMP'd. Yes it's overkill if your bad at using EMP, it's an instant cast, shouldn't be too much trouble. Storms do not stack. Kiting is not hard, splitting is not hard with fast units, snipe has 10 range so you can usually kill the HTs before they're even able to cast a feedback or storm. So no, it's not that hard, especially if you have a lot of scans to spot (Refer to Alicia vs Select). What's your division in SC2 btw? This also reminds me back in the day when Terrans were in denial about the reaper being overpowered, so disgusting to see. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
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Loxley
Netherlands2480 Posts
On September 20 2011 11:19 Shiori wrote: so basically blizzard did nothing to address the ghost, nothing to address pvz in general, and nothing to give protoss harassment options (in fact they nerfed blink, lol). bravo. Warp Prism Shields increased from 40 to 100. Harrassment option nr1. Tanking prisms, and if you wonder how; check out white-ra's stream more often - he's already doing it with squishy prisms. Agree on the ghosts tho.. | ||
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Sandro
897 Posts
On September 20 2011 11:19 Shiori wrote: so basically blizzard did nothing to address the ghost, nothing to address pvz in general, and nothing to give protoss harassment options (in fact they nerfed blink, lol). bravo. As long as David Kim is in charge Terran is never getting nerfed or having its cool unique upgrades taken away. Now that that is out of the way, when is the patch going to hit the rest of the world and will it affect GSL tonight? | ||
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PrObeLife
Australia22 Posts
On September 20 2011 11:19 Shiori wrote: so basically blizzard did nothing to address the ghost, nothing to address pvz in general, and nothing to give protoss harassment options (in fact they nerfed blink, lol). bravo. Exactly. Pathetic patch.. | ||
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Moa
United States790 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10372 Posts
On September 20 2011 11:19 Shiori wrote: so basically blizzard did nothing to address the ghost, nothing to address pvz in general, and nothing to give protoss harassment options (in fact they nerfed blink, lol). bravo. Wrong. NP is changed so Infestor Ling isn't as good. They gave immortal 1 more range and buff on WP. You realize that before, immortal + warp prism can do a lot of harassment damage by dodging marauder hits, and tanking (or picking them off) marines? Now immortals will have 1 more range than marines which will help even more. With perfect micro, you would be able to get in there, kill all the marines, then focus all the depots or marauders or tech labs or scvs, etc. He would need a viking or heavy marine number to slow down the damage. | ||
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Arisen
United States2382 Posts
On September 20 2011 11:10 Bagi wrote: QXC is one player and I don't see him winning anything at all. The strat is more fun and cool than actually strong. Banshees are great for harass, lose all viability once a mutalisk or phoenix is built. They're pretty much the definition of a gimmicky unit. You didn't even mention the BC which is probably the worst offender what comes to worthless units. I also really hate how people call every terran unit really fucking good but just "underexplored" when nobody uses them. How does it not apply to the other two races? Is it the fact that we have 20 terrans in the GSL that makes all terran units flawless in every aspect? Obvioulsy they're not flawless. The only unit that really isn't used by terran is the raven, btw. BC's are great TvT when it turns into sky terran. You could say that medivac drops lose all viablity once a mutalisk is built too, but I'd have to lol. Sure, you can shut it down, but guess what, we're not combat ex. We don't see everything that's happening all over because we don't have map hacks. You can absolutely do great harass with banshees after mutalisks and phoenix are out , and even if the mutalisk or phoneix flys over to deal with you, you have to have detection there ready (and all ground based detection can be sniped pretty easily by a small goup of banshees). Name me one terran unit besides the raven we don't see in high level play? Don't worry, I'll wait... Face it, terran has much better design overall. I'm sure that will be fixed with subsequent expansions, but for the time being, it's true. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On September 20 2011 11:19 Shiori wrote: so basically blizzard did nothing to address the ghost, nothing to address pvz in general, and nothing to give protoss harassment options (in fact they nerfed blink, lol). bravo. Buffed immortal should help against terran in general, infestor had 2 of its spells nerfed which should help PvZ, they gave the warp prism a huge amount of extra health which is pretty much all they can do to help protoss harass without adding new units. Bravo for making such an informed post though. | ||
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Boraz
United States361 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:30 Pokebunny wrote: YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!! Hellion Infernal Pre-Igniter damage upgrade decreased from 10 to 5. at long last.. TvT has been saved!!! At long last...terran can't come into a zerg base with 2 hellions and own our worker line as fast :D ZvT has been saved as well :D | ||
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:31 Rkie wrote: wtf you can still NP Motherships? In theory yes, but how is a zerg ever going to get within 7 range of a mothership and keep the infestor alive? Is the toss skipping colossi, HT, and bink? | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3134 Posts
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thekoven
United States128 Posts
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Boraz
United States361 Posts
On September 20 2011 11:24 Bagi wrote: Buffed immortal should help against terran in general, infestor had 2 of its spells nerfed which should help PvZ, they gave the warp prism a huge amount of extra health which is pretty much all they can do to help protoss harass without adding new units. Bravo for making such an informed post though. Protoss didn't really need help in that department...it will just help them beat us even more. | ||
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Sandro
897 Posts
On September 20 2011 11:25 KeithONLINE wrote: I cannot seriously believe this patch is coming a few days after MC and Alicia get knocked out of Code A. Fuck that. Not like it would have saved Alicia, Ghosts were not touched in anyway even though they've need a reevaluation for a while now. | ||
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Loxley
Netherlands2480 Posts
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Ftrunkz
Australia2474 Posts
On September 20 2011 10:29 Arisen wrote: Well, all my stuff was true, all yours wasn't? Name me a game where the protoss played well, didn't make any major mistakes and secured 3 base without huge losses and still lost versus zerg? For every 1 game you give me, I can give you 100 games of protoss rolling a zerg because he didn't have a game winning advantage going into lategame. That's just the way the matchup works, protoss lategame versus zerg is pretty much untouchable, so you have to win in the midgame. And while I think that reflects poor game design, it's the way things are. So why now is it justifiable to nerf the major component to making midgame zerg armies strong versus protoss when protoss have proven to be struggling in every single major tournament as of late. As to comparing the ghost to the infestor; I don't know what to say about that. You're wrong, I suppose is the long and short of it. Yeah, if you could fungal growth and NP unhindered, I guess the infestor is on par with the ghost, but you can't. Tanks and ghosts outrange infestors by a ton, negating out spellcasters and snipe is equal range to brood lords, so they can be delt with safely and snipe is fantastic versus ultralisks as well. Ghosts can cast every spell cloaked and can snipe mobile detection before they can be targeted so they can remain untargatable. Sure, you can cast IT's burrowed...that does a lot versus a late game army with a ton of splash damage :/ (that is assuming they're bad enough to not have detection anyway, which zerg doesn't have a way of sniping easily... The difference is I can give you a fuckton of examples of people dealing with infestors, wehre as you can't give me a lot of examples of people dealing with late game ghosts (at least ZvT). That was kinda fun... My point was your post (and this new one) are both INCREDIBLY biased towards your race in literally every way possible and any argument you make about literally anything can be thrown back at you with similar biased logic from any one of the other races point of views. I honestly fail to see any part of my post that spoke less truth than any of your opinions... Hell i'll do it again just for kicks... Well, all my stuff was true, all yours wasn't? Name me a game where the Zerg played well, didn't make any major mistakes and punished a protoss player accordingly if he took 3 bases with equal econ and still lost to a zerg? For every 1 game you give me, I can give you 100 games of zerg rolling a protoss because he had an econ advantage going into lategame and rolled over him with infestor broodlord. That's just the way the matchup works,zerg cripples protoss going into late-game so the protoss cant do anything, so you have to win in the midgame with timing pushes or pray the zerg's a retard. And while I think that reflects poor game design, it's the way things are. So it is perfectly justifiable to nerf the major component to making midgame zerg armies strong versus protoss when protoss have proven to be able to deal with infesotrs fine? As to comparing the ghost to the infestor; I don't know what to say about that. You're wrong, I suppose is the long and short of it. Yeah, if you could fungal growth and NP unhindered, I guess the infestor is on par with the ghost, but you can with broodlord support. broodlords and infestors outrange templar and stalker by a ton, and infestors fungalling negating out Our ability to blink and get under or away from broodlords and Neural is equal range to Collosi, so they can be delt with safely and neural is fantastic versus HT to feedbacking other HT as well. infestors can Hide behind broodslords, meaning you have to suicide a large amount of units just to have a chance at killing, combined with fungalling and running away or just burrowing make them practically untargatable. Sure, you can try to use your mobility to get around the slow zerg army, the only problem is that our most mobile units are all countered by lings which are even more mobile, and since broodlord infestor is a gas heavy combo, ling complement the combo perfectly allowing the zerg to shutdown any sort of harassment easily if he isnt a retard The difference is I can give you a fuckton of examples of people dealing with greedy protosses trying to take a third and getting punished ridiculously hard, whilst you cant give me a lot of examples of people dealing with lategame broodlord infestor (atleast pvz) But seriously, my point isn't that my edit of your posts holds true to what my opinion is, which I think is the part that you're missing, it's that my arguments, that seem so ridiculously stupid and obviously wrong to you, are actually on the same level of biased bullshit as yours are, all I've done is edited a few words to make it reflect the opposite side of the stories view, hence why EVERYONE but other butthurt zerg players will laugh at your post, my edits of your post, and the idea that people can actually be that 1-sided in their approach to sc2. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On September 20 2011 11:24 Bagi wrote: Buffed immortal should help against terran in general, infestor had 2 of its spells nerfed which should help PvZ, they gave the warp prism a huge amount of extra health which is pretty much all they can do to help protoss harass without adding new units. Bravo for making such an informed post though. immortals are not good units. they lose to stimmed marines, are marginally effective against marauders, but represent such a tech diversion that it's not worth it. the warp prism is utterly worthless because we have nothing economical to drop. the only good change is the neural parasite. fungal growth's damage is irrelevant to protoss. the root is the issue. | ||
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