|
|
On September 20 2011 07:11 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:09 Myles wrote:On September 20 2011 07:07 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 07:02 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 07:02 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:36 havox_ wrote:On September 20 2011 06:33 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:
[quote]
you forgot
now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind"
do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? do you somehow genuinely think that people should just sign a _legal contract_ and be allowed to just say "fuck it I don't need to do it lolololol" what century are you from? stephano did not sign a legal contract. he signed something a jumped-up american idiot thought would bind him under Texas law. doesn't work that way, and no french court would extradite him for it. And the Australians would say that it's perfectly fine to not hold on to an agreement, cuz you found a loophole in it? That's amazing =) that's how the law works, yes. should courts go by the "spirit of an agreement"? it's unworkable. in this case, we're not talking about minor loopholes either, but massive, fundamental problems. so by "massive fundamental problems" you mean "not in french"? K. - the contract wasn't in french - it attempted to subject the employee to a different country's labour laws - it had the form of a contract for fixed service provision, but the function of employment - it made no provision for specification or limitation of a probationary period, yet purported to apply from the date of witness we have been told all these things by compLexity representatives. any of them, alone, would be sufficient to void the document. You don't even understand basic contract law(as proven when calling work length agreements 'barbaric') so stop talking about this like you know anything at all. The fact is that an ACTUAL LAWYER is not exactly sure how this will unfold, so quit acting like you are. workers' rights supersede contract law - at least, everywhere other than the USA. contracts exist only as allowed BY law, and a nation's rules for employment, as democratically enacted, limit what is possible in a contract. i'm entirely in my right to call it barbaric to allow people to sign away years of their lives with no recourse. i don't believe that even america really allows that - you're just ignorant enough to think it does.
Its been said MANY times by the source itself (CoL) that this was not an employment contract but a contractor's contract under Texas law and yet all you bable about are french employment contract laws. You're comparing apples to oranges to push your flawed view. And don't even get me started if you honestly think french employment contracts are the only way an organization/person can obtain the services of another organization/person. Stop pushing bullshit.
|
On September 20 2011 07:20 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:39 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:36 Kaedeleus wrote:On September 20 2011 06:32 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Chargelot wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
..... I don't understand why people like this get involved in the conversation, if they are so willfully ignorant that they don't understand the purpose or intents of a -- any -- business. You can't sign a contract, and then in less than a day after it's made public decline to follow through with your LEGAL obligations. It is illegal.. this contract was not valid and did not confer any legal obligations. it wasn't even in french, let alone in the valid form of a contract of employment. Finally someone says something true, the contract is not valid in the eyes of the law, we must not look any further OMG ITS NOT VALID CAUSE ITS NOT IN FRENCH DURRRRRP maybe someone just learn english or learn to use google translate. france doesn't care whether you care whether contracts are in french.
how very sly and cute of them.
|
On September 20 2011 07:21 Himali wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:15 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 07:14 Himali wrote:On September 20 2011 07:13 Ym!r wrote:
They chose to tell him the contract is garbage, pretending it's in Stephano's favor to stay with Millenium, when it's not, they don't have half the opportunities coL could provide him
Finally, as said by Millenium : " LET S FOCUS ON THE FRENCH LANS"
Some people says that the american aren't aware of the world outside of USA, but
what about France ? That's seriously selfish from Millenium, they are killing Stephano's carreer, one year in SC2 is a LOT That is just unfair, you obviously do know nothing about both team audience reach and fan base development. Neither do you. Actually I do but just to dismiss your first statement with minimum effort: Complexity 22k FB likes, Millenium 18k. Millenium having a real content production and distribution strategy with avg. 3k viewer on THEIR own webtv (growing at >20% per monthlast 12 month). Col. content distribution strategy? See here: http://www.complexitygaming.com/streams/Obviously killing stephanos carrer... right
And yet what does Mill ever do outside of France? And Complexity? You mean that partnership they have with team MVP where Stephano could train in a Korean pro house with zergs like DRG? The dude from Mill even said that they have no plans to send Stephano to more international stuff than now, which means none at all.
|
On September 20 2011 07:22 lee365 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:05 Kairos~ wrote:On September 20 2011 06:57 DW-Unrec wrote:
why do they want that guy so much? he's not that good He just 2-1'd MMA in the IPL today... That doesn't count, It was late at night for MMA and he might not have been thinking clearly 
There is no doubt he is a very strong player. Lets not kid ourselves here. Just because he is acting like this doesn't mean his skill level decreases with it.
|
On September 20 2011 07:23 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:22 ZestyPickle wrote:On September 20 2011 07:20 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 07:13 ZestyPickle wrote:On September 20 2011 07:11 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 07:09 Myles wrote:On September 20 2011 07:07 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 07:02 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 07:02 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:36 havox_ wrote:
[quote]
And the Australians would say that it's perfectly fine to not hold on to an agreement, cuz you found a loophole in it? That's amazing =) that's how the law works, yes. should courts go by the "spirit of an agreement"? it's unworkable. in this case, we're not talking about minor loopholes either, but massive, fundamental problems. so by "massive fundamental problems" you mean "not in french"? K. - the contract wasn't in french - it attempted to subject the employee to a different country's labour laws - it had the form of a contract for fixed service provision, but the function of employment - it made no provision for specification or limitation of a probationary period, yet purported to apply from the date of witness we have been told all these things by compLexity representatives. any of them, alone, would be sufficient to void the document. You don't even understand basic contract law(as proven when calling work length agreements 'barbaric') so stop talking about this like you know anything at all. The fact is that an ACTUAL LAWYER is not exactly sure how this will unfold, so quit acting like you are. workers' rights supersede contract law - at least, everywhere other than the USA. contracts exist only as allowed BY law, and a nation's rules for employment, as democratically enacted, limit what is possible in a contract. i'm entirely in my right to call it barbaric to allow people to sign away years of their lives with no recourse. i don't believe that even america really allows that - you're just ignorant enough to think it does. Youre so ignorant you think contracts arent valid. Where the hell do you work? Some socialist propaganda office? He is subject to US law, the origin of his employement and contract, and thats all that matters. Dont make this political keep it legal. But seeing as you fail to understand legal laws that seems impossible. that's garbage. employment law, by long standing practice and precedent in all wealthy nations, is applied according to the laws of the host nation, not the originating nation of the employer. you're stating what you hope or guess to be true as fact. Too bad its a contracting contract, Try again my friend. "contracting" as a form of employment with limited rights does not exist in france, fortunately.
US law isnt disregarded in the case. You fail to see this. You cannot argue political views in a legal system which makes it painfully obvious you are no lawyer.
|
If Stephano signed a contract that is lawful in the U.S. then he's boned. None of the protections Millenium is claiming would apply if they are unique to France.
I expect Complexity to file suit in the U.S. and whatever judgment will be upheld by the international courts in a cursory fashion. Millenium is seriously boned if they re-signed Stephano after he signed a contract with Complexity. The courts could award Complexity incredible damages.
|
On September 20 2011 07:20 EvOr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:17 anGe wrote:On September 20 2011 07:08 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 07:06 Ubes wrote:On September 20 2011 07:03 Ruscour wrote:On September 20 2011 07:01 najreteip wrote:On September 20 2011 06:51 justinpal wrote:On September 20 2011 06:49 EvOr wrote:
Wanna guess what's the next move of Stephano : Going back to his studies, he switch to a full time pro-gamer, right before entering med school, he will switch back to being a student...
Stephano is 18? He is going to med school soon? Really? Why not? Going to university at 18 seems pretty normal to me I was gonna say, I'm at university right now and I'm 17, studying at uni at 18 isn't out of the norm at all.. Med School at 18 isn't the norm. in france, medical school begins at an undergraduate level. this is also true in australia, and many other places. there's a common theme in this thread: people assuming that the way things work in their country is the way they do, and should, work everywhere else. Well you don't know jack about France apparently. What you're saying about how you can quit your job at any time baffles me. You have to come to an agreement with your company otherwise it's legal for them to sue you so stop posting really because you're making a fool out of yourself. Not to mention that you keep speaking of the contract but I'm quite sure you didn't see it and if you did I have to agree with the guy saying you're from Mil. And even if you are you don't know anything about international law and that's a shame. Wrong, you can decide to leave whenever you want. You have to wait until the period of "préavis" is finished (3 months at most). Your employer cannot prevent you to leave, he can just ask you to do those 3 months entirely or pay you more if you need to stay one more months to finish a job for instance.
The preavis period isn't 3 month if you just started the contract dude .
|
On September 20 2011 07:22 ZeRoX5 wrote:
I like arguing and you all dont know that France and USA have very different legal system which cant be compared.Bottom line is, coL can pick beetwen taking him in team or gaining huge fee from Mill. Simple.
I assume they'll try and get the fee from Mill considering Stephano appears to want to stay with them. No reason to make a player compete for you when he doesn't want to. Someone in the Stephano/Mill camp is kicking themselves right now one way or the other. It'll be interesting to see what sort of additional statements they release.
|
On September 20 2011 07:22 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:40 wats0n wrote:On September 20 2011 06:32 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Chargelot wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
..... I don't understand why people like this get involved in the conversation, if they are so willfully ignorant that they don't understand the purpose or intents of a -- any -- business. You can't sign a contract, and then in less than a day after it's made public decline to follow through with your LEGAL obligations. It is illegal.. this contract was not valid and did not confer any legal obligations. it wasn't even in french, let alone in the valid form of a contract of employment. So contracts have to be in French? Stop posting. You're shilling for Millenium pretty obviously and you have no clue what you're talking about. If Stephano signed a lawful contract with the U.S. a French court could presume that he submitted to the contract laws of that employer's nation. A U.S. contract does not have to uphold to French contract law. under french law, contracts employing french citizens do in fact have to be in french. i don't know why you think this is strange.
You know these types of contracts happen between French citizens and international businesses ALL THE TIME, right?
|
Lol. I love all of the blatant prejudice coming from both sides of the argument.
Gulbanana, I don't know too much about either side of the argument to be honest, but it really does sound like you're being too quick to assume Stephano will get off of the chain with no repercussions. While it may not have been made completely in French terms, do you think the French court would really completely disrespect the legal proceedings of another country like that?
|
On September 20 2011 07:22 lee365 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:05 Kairos~ wrote:On September 20 2011 06:57 DW-Unrec wrote:
why do they want that guy so much? he's not that good He just 2-1'd MMA in the IPL today... That doesn't count, It was late at night for MMA and he might not have been thinking clearly
I see what you did there sir ;o
|
I'm a fake lawyer too and in my grand official legal opinion that France is the true victim here. A French citizen was swindled into a contract by a fat, arrogant, racist American and forced to toil for the rest of his life playing in american starcraft tournaments. Luckily French superstar lawyer and NBA point guard Tony Parker was able to rescue our boy hero and win the Olympic Gold medal game from the dirty Americans and bring justice to the universe.
|
On September 20 2011 07:23 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:22 ZestyPickle wrote:On September 20 2011 07:20 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 07:13 ZestyPickle wrote:On September 20 2011 07:11 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 07:09 Myles wrote:On September 20 2011 07:07 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 07:02 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 07:02 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:36 havox_ wrote:
[quote]
And the Australians would say that it's perfectly fine to not hold on to an agreement, cuz you found a loophole in it? That's amazing =) that's how the law works, yes. should courts go by the "spirit of an agreement"? it's unworkable. in this case, we're not talking about minor loopholes either, but massive, fundamental problems. so by "massive fundamental problems" you mean "not in french"? K. - the contract wasn't in french - it attempted to subject the employee to a different country's labour laws - it had the form of a contract for fixed service provision, but the function of employment - it made no provision for specification or limitation of a probationary period, yet purported to apply from the date of witness we have been told all these things by compLexity representatives. any of them, alone, would be sufficient to void the document. You don't even understand basic contract law(as proven when calling work length agreements 'barbaric') so stop talking about this like you know anything at all. The fact is that an ACTUAL LAWYER is not exactly sure how this will unfold, so quit acting like you are. workers' rights supersede contract law - at least, everywhere other than the USA. contracts exist only as allowed BY law, and a nation's rules for employment, as democratically enacted, limit what is possible in a contract. i'm entirely in my right to call it barbaric to allow people to sign away years of their lives with no recourse. i don't believe that even america really allows that - you're just ignorant enough to think it does. Youre so ignorant you think contracts arent valid. Where the hell do you work? Some socialist propaganda office? He is subject to US law, the origin of his employement and contract, and thats all that matters. Dont make this political keep it legal. But seeing as you fail to understand legal laws that seems impossible. that's garbage. employment law, by long standing practice and precedent in all wealthy nations, is applied according to the laws of the host nation, not the originating nation of the employer. you're stating what you hope or guess to be true as fact. Too bad its a contracting contract, Try again my friend. "contracting" as a form of employment with limited rights does not exist in france, fortunately.
It does exist, but it's a little tricky. People have to declare themselve as auto-entrepreneur (self-company) or simply found a company with only them in it and then they can sell themselves as contractors. It happens a lot in computer engineering.
|
On September 20 2011 07:17 Kieofire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:13 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:38 keioh wrote:On September 20 2011 06:33 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind" do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? do you somehow genuinely think that people should just sign a _legal contract_ and be allowed to just say "fuck it I don't need to do it lolololol" what century are you from? stephano did not sign a legal contract. he signed something a jumped-up american idiot thought would bind him under Texas law. doesn't work that way, and no french court would extradite him for it. So a legally binding contract is not a legal contract ? Shit, world doesn't make sense anymore. Hate will prevail as usual. it wasn't a legally binding contract. there's more to making a contract legally binding than a piece of paper, some words, and a signature. those words must have valid form, and legitimate function. If it has the signature of the person who agrees to it then it is legally binding, what do you not understand?
that's false. contracts are legal documents in which two or more parties agree to exchange goods or perform services; that's all. they can only promise certain things, and can only operate in certain ways. if you just write some words on a piece of paper and sign it, that's no guarantee it will have any legal meaning.
|
France266 Posts
On September 20 2011 07:22 Kaedeleus wrote:
Je sais pas si tu a écouté le stream mais Llewl a parlé d'un projet global pour faire avancer l'esport francais ca ne concerne pas Stephano. Il a dit qu'il ferait event us (ipl, mlg) event euro et un séjour en corée. C'est tout
You need to separate the facts, as given by Lwl (i.e. focus on working on professionalization of the French scene, notably with the training house in Marseille, and how he doesn't plan on doing anything related to Korea, because of, quote, the lack of visibility of foreigners in Korea) from the long-term views he expressed (the global project you mention).
|
On September 20 2011 07:25 Horse...falcon wrote:
I'm a fake lawyer too and in my grand official legal opinion that France is the true victim here. A French citizen was swindled into a contract by a fat, arrogant, racist American and forced to toil for the rest of his life playing in american starcraft tournaments. Luckily French superstar lawyer and NBA point guard Tony Parker was able to rescue our boy hero and win the Olympic Gold medal game from the dirty Americans and bring justice to the universe.
pretty much what any thread involving an American organization will boil down to here on teamliquid
|
On September 20 2011 07:23 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:22 ZeRoX5 wrote:
I like arguing and you all dont know that France and USA have very different legal system which cant be compared.Bottom line is, coL can pick beetwen taking him in team or gaining huge fee from Mill. Simple. actually, coL won't get to do either of those things.
I find it funny how you know all of this, stop being biased.
|
On September 20 2011 07:23 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:22 ZeRoX5 wrote:
I like arguing and you all dont know that France and USA have very different legal system which cant be compared.Bottom line is, coL can pick beetwen taking him in team or gaining huge fee from Mill. Simple. actually, coL won't get to do either of those things.
I would like you to explain me which holes you found for that claim? Assuming Steph was free agent and signed contract with his free will (or so sry for bad engl)
|
I hope Millenium has as experienced lawyers as they do shills to champion their cause in this thread.
|
On September 20 2011 07:24 Bellygareth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:20 EvOr wrote:On September 20 2011 07:17 anGe wrote:On September 20 2011 07:08 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 07:06 Ubes wrote:On September 20 2011 07:03 Ruscour wrote:On September 20 2011 07:01 najreteip wrote:On September 20 2011 06:51 justinpal wrote:On September 20 2011 06:49 EvOr wrote:
Wanna guess what's the next move of Stephano : Going back to his studies, he switch to a full time pro-gamer, right before entering med school, he will switch back to being a student...
Stephano is 18? He is going to med school soon? Really? Why not? Going to university at 18 seems pretty normal to me I was gonna say, I'm at university right now and I'm 17, studying at uni at 18 isn't out of the norm at all.. Med School at 18 isn't the norm. in france, medical school begins at an undergraduate level. this is also true in australia, and many other places. there's a common theme in this thread: people assuming that the way things work in their country is the way they do, and should, work everywhere else. Well you don't know jack about France apparently. What you're saying about how you can quit your job at any time baffles me. You have to come to an agreement with your company otherwise it's legal for them to sue you so stop posting really because you're making a fool out of yourself. Not to mention that you keep speaking of the contract but I'm quite sure you didn't see it and if you did I have to agree with the guy saying you're from Mil. And even if you are you don't know anything about international law and that's a shame. Wrong, you can decide to leave whenever you want. You have to wait until the period of "préavis" is finished (3 months at most). Your employer cannot prevent you to leave, he can just ask you to do those 3 months entirely or pay you more if you need to stay one more months to finish a job for instance. The preavis period isn't 3 month if you just started the contract dude .
Yeah I've already make a post about the trial period (preavis of 1 day per week + 1 week per month). But it wasn't relevant to the point I was answering, which was you can break your contract (CDI) whenever you want but you have to wait before leaving the company.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
