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On September 20 2011 07:24 WArped wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:22 lee365 wrote:On September 20 2011 07:05 Kairos~ wrote:On September 20 2011 06:57 DW-Unrec wrote:
why do they want that guy so much? he's not that good He just 2-1'd MMA in the IPL today... That doesn't count, It was late at night for MMA and he might not have been thinking clearly  There is no doubt he is a very strong player. Lets not kid ourselves here. Just because he is acting like this doesn't mean his skill level decreases with it.
I'm making a joke about one of Mill's reasons, Not trying to really trying to discredit the player.
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Just in time for State of the Game! LOL
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On September 20 2011 07:25 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:17 Kieofire wrote:On September 20 2011 07:13 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:38 keioh wrote:On September 20 2011 06:33 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:26 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:23 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
you forgot now people don't care about contracts because they can just "change their mind" do you somehow genuinely think that people shouldn't be allowed to quit their job? what century are you from? do you somehow genuinely think that people should just sign a _legal contract_ and be allowed to just say "fuck it I don't need to do it lolololol" what century are you from? stephano did not sign a legal contract. he signed something a jumped-up american idiot thought would bind him under Texas law. doesn't work that way, and no french court would extradite him for it. So a legally binding contract is not a legal contract ? Shit, world doesn't make sense anymore. Hate will prevail as usual. it wasn't a legally binding contract. there's more to making a contract legally binding than a piece of paper, some words, and a signature. those words must have valid form, and legitimate function. If it has the signature of the person who agrees to it then it is legally binding, what do you not understand? that's false. contracts are legal documents in which two or more parties agree to exchange goods or perform services; that's all. they can only promise certain things, and can only operate in certain ways. if you just write some words on a piece of paper and sign it, that's no guarantee it will have any legal meaning.
Yes a lawyer wrote a random series of words. Are you like fucking mill in disguise?
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On September 20 2011 07:21 gogogadgetflow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:19 theBizness wrote:
Every day we march closer and closer to KESPA II, which is game over for the foreign scene. Also, think about how potential sponsors for various tournaments/teams will react when something like this happens every other week. It won't happen every week if there is a governing body like kespa. Your statements don't make sense.
A governing body will prevent these types of disputes, but it's not going to be good for the development foreign scene. Look at how Broodwar turned out? Also, I doubt the foreign scene will agree to the type of controls KESPA has put into place.
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On September 20 2011 07:13 Ym!r wrote:
Ok guys, so basically :
If Millenium lose Stephano, they will no longer have a top SC2 player
They chose to tell him the contract is garbage, pretending it's in Stephano's favor to stay with Millenium, when it's not, they don't have half the opportunities coL could provide him
Finally, as said by Millenium : " LET S FOCUS ON THE FRENCH LANS"
Some people says that the american aren't aware of the world outside of USA, but
what about France ? That's seriously selfish from Millenium, they are killing Stephano's carreer, one year in SC2 is a LOT
I am french and was on Millenium stream all night:
Millenium's manager NEVER SAID THAT
Stephano will go to many international events, even in korea.
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On September 20 2011 07:18 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:17 anGe wrote:On September 20 2011 07:08 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 07:06 Ubes wrote:On September 20 2011 07:03 Ruscour wrote:On September 20 2011 07:01 najreteip wrote:On September 20 2011 06:51 justinpal wrote:On September 20 2011 06:49 EvOr wrote:
Wanna guess what's the next move of Stephano : Going back to his studies, he switch to a full time pro-gamer, right before entering med school, he will switch back to being a student...
Stephano is 18? He is going to med school soon? Really? Why not? Going to university at 18 seems pretty normal to me I was gonna say, I'm at university right now and I'm 17, studying at uni at 18 isn't out of the norm at all.. Med School at 18 isn't the norm. in france, medical school begins at an undergraduate level. this is also true in australia, and many other places. there's a common theme in this thread: people assuming that the way things work in their country is the way they do, and should, work everywhere else. Well you don't know jack about France apparently. What you're saying about how you can quit your job at any time baffles me. You have to come to an agreement with your company otherwise it's legal for them to sue you so stop posting really because you're making a fool out of yourself. Not to mention that you keep speaking of the contract but I'm quite sure you didn't see it and if you did I have to agree with the guy saying you're from Mil. And even if you are you don't know anything about international law and that's a shame. well it does say his country is Australia ...
Well that's my point, this guys keeps speaking for France when he's obviously not French. Because if he is, he better be trolling...
@EvOr, and if you don't do your "pré-avis"'s time they will sue you. The only thing that could "save" Stephano is the retract time of the contract (if there was one to begin with).
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On September 20 2011 06:41 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 06:40 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:39 Phayt wrote:
Does Mill have a dude sitting at a computer rapidly switching between accounts and spreading propaganda in this thread?
because all the sub-10 post accounts coming in here all "bla bla bla contract doesn't count I'm not listening" is astounding
It's also a massive failure that's just making the "french" side look even worse
(disclaimer I cannot believe these are even real people, let alone an accurate representation of french sentiment.)
I had a feeling about that too.... -_____-' I'll be watching the ban thread closely to see if they're all the same person.
i'm not the same person as anyone else in this thread. that you would guess it isn't possible for multiple people to disagree with you is pretty closed-minded.
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Mill. and stephano just lost a fan
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On September 20 2011 07:21 Himali wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:15 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 07:14 Himali wrote:On September 20 2011 07:13 Ym!r wrote:
They chose to tell him the contract is garbage, pretending it's in Stephano's favor to stay with Millenium, when it's not, they don't have half the opportunities coL could provide him
Finally, as said by Millenium : " LET S FOCUS ON THE FRENCH LANS"
Some people says that the american aren't aware of the world outside of USA, but
what about France ? That's seriously selfish from Millenium, they are killing Stephano's carreer, one year in SC2 is a LOT That is just unfair, you obviously do know nothing about both team audience reach and fan base development. Neither do you. Actually I do but just to dismiss your first statement with minimum effort: Complexity 22k FB likes, Millenium 18k. Millenium having a real content production and distribution strategy with avg. 3k viewer on THEIR own webtv (growing at >20% per monthlast 12 month). Col. content distribution strategy? See here: http://www.complexitygaming.com/streams/Obviously killing stephanos carrer... right
Facebook likes ? C'mon don't post ever again ...
Do you know why Millenium got more hit on their stream ?
Because it's the only french webTV on sc2 and french people are in average very bad at speaking/understanding English, it's not something you'll see in Germany or Sweden for example, not a lot of people understand english so with only one webtv its no wonder they got more viewer when coL face a lot of other international shows
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On September 20 2011 07:25 Koorb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:22 Kaedeleus wrote:
Je sais pas si tu a écouté le stream mais Llewl a parlé d'un projet global pour faire avancer l'esport francais ca ne concerne pas Stephano. Il a dit qu'il ferait event us (ipl, mlg) event euro et un séjour en corée. C'est tout You need to separate the facts, as given by Lwl (i.e. focus on working on professionalization of the French scene, notably with the training house in Marseille, and how he doesn't plan on doing anything related to Korea, because of, quote, the lack of visibility of foreigners in Korea) from the long-term views he expressed (the global project you mention).
But he also said that there have been talks with the Korean team that Stephano will go to Korea etc. ..
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On September 20 2011 07:23 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:20 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:39 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 06:36 Kaedeleus wrote:On September 20 2011 06:32 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 06:28 Chargelot wrote:On September 20 2011 06:22 Tanith wrote:
what a loads of stupid drama this has became, how this should of gone whether the contract is legal or not:
Stephano signs contract with col
Stephano change his mind
coL say fuck it, if he change his mind so easily and shits on us this way we don't want or need him, we lost a months worth of negotiations its sucks get over it
Stephano and mil look like idiots
case closed
All this legal, lawsuit blah blah blah fucking zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
..... I don't understand why people like this get involved in the conversation, if they are so willfully ignorant that they don't understand the purpose or intents of a -- any -- business. You can't sign a contract, and then in less than a day after it's made public decline to follow through with your LEGAL obligations. It is illegal.. this contract was not valid and did not confer any legal obligations. it wasn't even in french, let alone in the valid form of a contract of employment. Finally someone says something true, the contract is not valid in the eyes of the law, we must not look any further OMG ITS NOT VALID CAUSE ITS NOT IN FRENCH DURRRRRP maybe someone just learn english or learn to use google translate. france doesn't care whether you care whether contracts are in french. how very sly and cute of them.
That shows how freaking sellfish french ppl are.. screw stephano haha
User was warned for this post
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There's 2 issues here.
1. Even if Stephano had not signed any contract and had just verbally told coL that he was joining. For him to back out after agreeing to join speaks to his character (or lack thereof). I'm not sure what he was thinking (maybe he wasn't thinking), but this hurts Stephano's reputation and credibility and he's morally wrong to do what he did. There's no argument here against this point that is convincing. Nobody was holding a gun to his head, agreeing to something at 3AM is not an excuse for breaking your word.
2. If Esports ever wants to break through from fringe activity to mainstream, these types of legal issues will need to be sorted out in an actual court of law, or they'll continue to occur. Similar incidents have gone to court and were seen through to the end, but as I understand it they were Swedish courts ruling on Swedish teams and players. To the best of my knowledge an international legal precedent has not yet been set for this type of issue. That being said, there's no reason to believe any of this would be any different than the legal situation for regular sports. At some point, someone will take legal action and I commend coL for considering it, to the benefit of Esports as whole. Likewise leagues will have to address these issues as well (as they have in the past - again more with CS than SC).
The only bearing the legality of the contract in France would have is on whether coL wants to take their chances in legal action. Even if the contract is totally invalid, Stephano is still morally in the wrong. It's also humorous to see so many armchair legal experts appear out of nowhere trying to push all sorts of weird and obscure laws to push their agenda.
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I feel bad for all parties involved  .
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United States631 Posts
Okay so what you are... I mean, wait what? I'm kinda speechless o.O; I can't even generate an opinion.
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On September 20 2011 07:28 anGe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:18 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 07:17 anGe wrote:On September 20 2011 07:08 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 07:06 Ubes wrote:On September 20 2011 07:03 Ruscour wrote:On September 20 2011 07:01 najreteip wrote:On September 20 2011 06:51 justinpal wrote:On September 20 2011 06:49 EvOr wrote:
Wanna guess what's the next move of Stephano : Going back to his studies, he switch to a full time pro-gamer, right before entering med school, he will switch back to being a student...
Stephano is 18? He is going to med school soon? Really? Why not? Going to university at 18 seems pretty normal to me I was gonna say, I'm at university right now and I'm 17, studying at uni at 18 isn't out of the norm at all.. Med School at 18 isn't the norm. in france, medical school begins at an undergraduate level. this is also true in australia, and many other places. there's a common theme in this thread: people assuming that the way things work in their country is the way they do, and should, work everywhere else. Well you don't know jack about France apparently. What you're saying about how you can quit your job at any time baffles me. You have to come to an agreement with your company otherwise it's legal for them to sue you so stop posting really because you're making a fool out of yourself. Not to mention that you keep speaking of the contract but I'm quite sure you didn't see it and if you did I have to agree with the guy saying you're from Mil. And even if you are you don't know anything about international law and that's a shame. well it does say his country is Australia ... Well that's my point, this guys keeps speaking for France when he's obviously not French. Because if he is, he better be trolling... @EvOr, and if you don't do your "pré-avis"'s time they will sue you. The only thing that could "save" Stephano is the retract time of the contract (if there was one to begin with).
i'm not "speaking for france". i'm not french, as you guessed. i'm speaking up to say that stephano shouldn't be vilified for making an error of judgement then quickly changing his mind - and that compLexity shouldn't be making insane legal threats with no knowledge of the protections conferred on workers by nations other than the usa.
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The contract that Stephano signed with coL is not a CDI. So can we please stop talking about that? The whole "trial period" or whatever, or "withdrawal clause"... all that is for a CDI.
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On September 20 2011 07:23 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:21 Himali wrote:On September 20 2011 07:15 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 07:14 Himali wrote:On September 20 2011 07:13 Ym!r wrote:
They chose to tell him the contract is garbage, pretending it's in Stephano's favor to stay with Millenium, when it's not, they don't have half the opportunities coL could provide him
Finally, as said by Millenium : " LET S FOCUS ON THE FRENCH LANS"
Some people says that the american aren't aware of the world outside of USA, but
what about France ? That's seriously selfish from Millenium, they are killing Stephano's carreer, one year in SC2 is a LOT That is just unfair, you obviously do know nothing about both team audience reach and fan base development. Neither do you. Actually I do but just to dismiss your first statement with minimum effort: Complexity 22k FB likes, Millenium 18k. Millenium having a real content production and distribution strategy with avg. 3k viewer on THEIR own webtv (growing at >20% per monthlast 12 month). Col. content distribution strategy? See here: http://www.complexitygaming.com/streams/Obviously killing stephanos carrer... right Just because they have a webtv doesn't mean it's targetting people outside of france.
Stephano's carreer would be helped not by internet revenue alone but tournament wins aswell. Win big tournaments = big cash prize -> increased publicity -> more webstream revenue. If you never leave your country you gonna have a hard time winning big prizes. Even the koreans fly out all across the world to attend dreamhack/MLG etc.
From sc2earnings.com
place 78 MilleniumIlyes "Stephano" Satouri $6,515 in winnings.
If complexity enables him to travel the world, instead of just france: the talent of stephano could be developed to aquire bigger wins. Ultimately it comes down to player skill and the backing of their team to develop that skill. Country borders should not be a restricting issue in the world of e-sports. We got normal sports doing that already.
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On September 20 2011 07:21 WArped wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:18 EvOr wrote:On September 20 2011 07:14 dafunk wrote:On September 20 2011 06:51 justinpal wrote:On September 20 2011 06:49 EvOr wrote:
Wanna guess what's the next move of Stephano : Going back to his studies, he switch to a full time pro-gamer, right before entering med school, he will switch back to being a student...
Stephano is 18? He is going to med school soon? Really? Actually the funny thing is that he lied about this too. He isnt going to med school at all and didnt even finished college when he said it... The guy is a liar and a kid, thats all :/ What do you mean by college, since you're french I give you the benefice of the doubt, but right now i think you're just a troll. At 17/18 he's at most out of highschool. A levels / Sixth form / College it can be called a number of things. What does this even matter? He lied about his education.
How has he lied? If his (French A Level equivilent) grades are good enough the next logical step towards being a doctor is med school.
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We need a survivor match on sc2.
coL vs Mill.
Bo7.
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On September 20 2011 07:30 gulbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 07:28 anGe wrote:On September 20 2011 07:18 zhurai wrote:On September 20 2011 07:17 anGe wrote:On September 20 2011 07:08 gulbanana wrote:On September 20 2011 07:06 Ubes wrote:On September 20 2011 07:03 Ruscour wrote:On September 20 2011 07:01 najreteip wrote:On September 20 2011 06:51 justinpal wrote:On September 20 2011 06:49 EvOr wrote:
Wanna guess what's the next move of Stephano : Going back to his studies, he switch to a full time pro-gamer, right before entering med school, he will switch back to being a student...
Stephano is 18? He is going to med school soon? Really? Why not? Going to university at 18 seems pretty normal to me I was gonna say, I'm at university right now and I'm 17, studying at uni at 18 isn't out of the norm at all.. Med School at 18 isn't the norm. in france, medical school begins at an undergraduate level. this is also true in australia, and many other places. there's a common theme in this thread: people assuming that the way things work in their country is the way they do, and should, work everywhere else. Well you don't know jack about France apparently. What you're saying about how you can quit your job at any time baffles me. You have to come to an agreement with your company otherwise it's legal for them to sue you so stop posting really because you're making a fool out of yourself. Not to mention that you keep speaking of the contract but I'm quite sure you didn't see it and if you did I have to agree with the guy saying you're from Mil. And even if you are you don't know anything about international law and that's a shame. well it does say his country is Australia ... Well that's my point, this guys keeps speaking for France when he's obviously not French. Because if he is, he better be trolling... @EvOr, and if you don't do your "pré-avis"'s time they will sue you. The only thing that could "save" Stephano is the retract time of the contract (if there was one to begin with). i'm not "speaking for france". i'm not french, as you guessed. i'm speaking up to say that stephano shouldn't be vilified for making an error of judgement then quickly changing his mind - and that compLexity shouldn't be making insane legal threats with no knowledge of the protections conferred on workers by nations other than the usa.
I get it now, Australian communist party?
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EPT
