• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:29
CEST 12:29
KST 19:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting4[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent10Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO65.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)72Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition325.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)119
StarCraft 2
General
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) Ladder Impersonation (only maybe) The New Patch Killed Mech! Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Tenacious Turtle Tussle WardiTV Mondays SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More
Brood War
General
[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent BW caster Sayle ASL20 General Discussion BW General Discussion BSL Season 21
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal B [ASL20] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Siegecraft - a new perspective TvZ Theorycraft - Improving on State of the Art
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread Sex and weight loss
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Inbreeding: Why Do We Do It…
Peanutsc
From Tilt to Ragequit:The Ps…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 943 users

Stephano contract situation - Page 140

Forum Index > SC2 General
3152 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 138 139 140 141 142 158 Next
Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103)

Update: Please read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267506#1 and continue the discussion there.
Zorkmid
Profile Joined November 2008
4410 Posts
September 20 2011 13:06 GMT
#2781
On September 20 2011 22:03 r4pture wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 21:56 Zorkmid wrote:
I see some parallels between this situation and the one with Destiny.

If you look at those 2 situations combined, it feels like coL could be a bit pushy with contracts and deadlines to the point that players have signed without being sure that that was what they wanted to do.

coL should post the contract for everyone to see.


This is actually very different then Destinys contract with coL. Steven spoke directly with Jason Lake (I believe) to be released from his contract on good terms, on the grounds he only signed it because he did not want to let his ROOT team mates down, feeling that if he failed to sign that the deal would not go through. Destiny and the entirety of the coL roster are still on speaking and practice terms, and Destiny is still good friends with all his former ROOT teammates (Catz and MInigun at the very least).

This is very, very different.


I didn't mean anything about whether or not he was friends with coL players. All I meant was that this isn't the first time that a prominent player has apparent;y signed a contract with coL only to back out of it immediately. There must be something about the way coL conducts business that precipitates that stuff.
darps
Profile Joined September 2011
1 Post
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 13:07:59
September 20 2011 13:06 GMT
#2782
1. If stephano is 18 year old, he is responsible for what he signed
2. To know the competent jurisdiction for this contract, you need to read the contract clauses, has it should be specified.

==> col wins BUT

If stephano wasn't aware of all the implications of the contract, it COULD be sufficient to break it. How?
1. Stephano is not an english speaker with minimal skill and the contract hasn't been translated. (col responsability = 0 indemnisation)
2. Stephano suffered unacceptable pression from coL (col responsability = 0 indemnisation)
3. Stephano isn't 18 years old (col responsability = 0 indemnisation)
4. Stephano wasn't in good shape to judge correctly at the moment of the signature (col responsability = 0 indemnisation).

You sould don't forget something: we speak about amercan law wich is based on jurisprudence and a really new area of sport with really young players and no real professionalism as in football or tennis

The stakes are so low (i mean for real adult people) that i don't believe it's gonna be so money making for coL to pursuit M or Stephano.
Merlimoo
Profile Joined January 2011
France192 Posts
September 20 2011 13:07 GMT
#2783
On September 20 2011 22:03 Zorkmid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 21:59 Merlimoo wrote:
Personal trollish note:
+ Show Spoiler +

As the US culture is, I think they just want a some financial compensation, for having managed to get a click on a website from a guy far far away...


+ Show Spoiler +

No. They want money for being made to look like fools. And they deserve it.


I wouldn't have though that they were fools, if they just have announced that something went wrong. Now that they tries to be the angry little dog of the neighborhood, I'm willing to think of them as such. I mean, I don't what the deal is with this team, but since 2003 it must the third times they get screwed like that. I wonder if they are at fault, of if it the entire esport community that try to pick on them...
Day[9] made me do it.
Boardin
Profile Joined September 2009
234 Posts
September 20 2011 13:07 GMT
#2784
On September 20 2011 21:38 Ylrahc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 21:24 T0fuuu wrote:
On September 20 2011 20:41 Ylrahc wrote:
On September 20 2011 20:34 T0fuuu wrote:
On September 20 2011 19:34 Ylrahc wrote:
7) Stephano signs with Millenium, Internet drama follows.
What coL did was at best not very classy.[b] They tried to poach Stephano. Why do you think they never directly contacted Millenium before signing Stephano : because they thought they would have a better chance signing it doing so. [/b

Lol? how can you poach a player that isnt signed and is in open negotiations with more than 2 teams? If millenium is willing to give counteroffers to complexity then its pretty obvious it was a bidding war and one that col. won. Why should they notify millenium that they have signed a player? It would be like rubbing it in their face and is almost brag like. You cant even have a better chance of signing if its signed? If over the course of 18 days or however long stephano was a free agent millenium couldnt give him a competitive deal then its bad business on their end.

You didn't read points 1 to 6 very closely did you. After Stephano was in open discussion with a lot of teams, he declined them all and promised Millenium he would spend another year with them. Thus the open negociations were finished. There is nothing wrong with coL trying to hire Stephano after this point, but they should have done it by negociating with Stephano AND Millenium. (then again, only speaking about what is morally right here, as I said before it has nothing to do with the law, as noone here is in the position to know what was legal and what wasn't in this story)


You are certainly on millenniums side but at least try to read what complexity has posted? Millennium were aware that complexity were still working with stephano and made counteroffers if so how were negotiations closed? Its not like they woke up at 3am and thought. OMG THEY STOLE OUR PLAYER, they obviously didnt bring everything they were willing to offer to stephano when they went to bed the night before col's announcement so it is their own fault. They then release their own announcement and make stephano sign another agreement to play with them. Call col, dishonest and using disorientating tactics (lol?) and drum up support for themselves by bragging about website hits and some nationalistic go french esports lines. There was no moral wrong for not talking with millenium.

Thinking that Millenium was aware is completly different than directly speaking to Millenium. coL NEVER stated anywhere that they discussed directly with Millenium before signing Stephano. They spoke to Stephano only and believed Stephano spoke to Millenium about it because Stephano told them about the counter offers. Millenium, on the other hand, tells coL never spoke to them and they weren't aware of the last coL offers (ie, after Stephano gave them their word he would stay for another year in M)
I do believe M SC2 Manager on this, and I do believe coL never spoke directly to Millenium. coL carefully worded their announcements to make people believe M was involved, but they never directly said M was indeed involved.
Not saying that M was flawless either. I did agree in my first post that top manager M announcement was seen as too aggressive, and their behavior towards coL contract is imho wrong. I only say that on the moral side of this story Complexity is not totally white either, and that seems to me to be an obvious fact that most coL supporters are missing.
Show nested quote +

There was no moral wrong for not talking with millenium.

Okay, then it's not morally wrong to try to hire a player without speaking to the team he has an oral contract with. I think you lost me here. Furthermore, M should have been at least informed of the last coL offer before Stephano actually signs it. It's called not acting behind someone's back.




Col did not need to talk to Millenium, neither did M need to talk to Col. This is normal. The player was not under contract, you dont need to talk to every other suitor of the player. It doesnt matter what is said behind closed doors to Stephano to get them to sweeten the deal. Unless he says, okay and signs with you, it doesnt matter. Even if he does it is not Col's fault Stephano is getting into formal agreements with 2 different companies.

Again not sure how you can fault Col for not talking to M. When you leave for a new job does your new employer have to call your old one to make sure its okay? Or in sports do you have to check with their old team? We arent talking about a player under contract, we are talking about a free agent.

You talk about acting behind someones back. Thsi is business, how old are you?
Falcor
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada894 Posts
September 20 2011 13:08 GMT
#2785
On September 20 2011 21:59 Bobster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 21:51 SolidMustard wrote:
On September 20 2011 21:43 Dandy_Moustachu wrote:
On September 20 2011 21:31 TidusX.Yuna wrote:
What really makes me sad is that is that Stephano may be confined to the French scene. He's definitely one of the most up and coming players right now and I'd love to watch him tear it up outside of France. Anyone who can 2-1 MMA in a ZvT (Remember MLG anaheim when SlayerS TvZ seemed unbeatable).... he has the potential to become one of the best/most exciting foreigners to ever play this game. It seems like this whole ordeal is definitely throwing a wrench into that


Why would he stay confined in the french scene ?
Millenium send a ton of players to DreamHack Summer, IEM Cologne, Assembly Summer, Homestory Cup, they send ToD at MLG Colombus (or another one, not sure)

I'm pretty sure they said they'll want to send Stephano to MLG even before all this mess (and remember MLG is not really interesting for EU players, poor seeding (hello Incontrol) little price pool) but as i can be wrong.



You can't be serious... Millenium is really bad at sending their players to the main events (aka MLG and GSL), they want to stay focused so that their sponsors have good visibility in France... which is stupid imo (that's why they don't sen players to Korea, at least that's what they say)

Anyway Stefano would obviously have attended more and better tournaments at coL/MVP than at Millenium

How many complexity players have been sent to GSL? (Drewbie and...?)
How many complexity players have been sent to IEM?
Dreamhack?
Assembly?
HomestoryCup?
ESCW?

Playing at an MLG instead of all the European tournaments hardly seems like "more and better tournaments" to me. :/


But that said, I hope Millenium sends Stephano to every tournament he wants to participate in, including MLG and GSL (if he so chooses).


how many players have col had that could compete at iem dreamhack etc to make it worth while? none....however with drg now im sure you'll see him at every event he wants to go to that doesnt conflict with gsl.

And they were also one of the very few american teams who when cs was big actually flew out their team to all major events world wide.
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
September 20 2011 13:08 GMT
#2786
On September 20 2011 21:30 Karak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 20:45 Myfsk wrote:
Lawyers, lawyers everywhere ...

Being able to read wikipedia or/and use google doesn't make you lawyer. Beside, no one here know what is inside this contract.


There are few things in this world which tilt me more than watching people on the TL forums try to perform legal analysis. As someone who works in the field, it's just painful to watch. I would caution anyone against making judgments or guessing at the legal ramifications in this situation, as the tangled litigation web is quite complex.


It's fair to speculate especially when the Millenium guy specifically commented about it saying they found the contract void in french law.
Merlimoo
Profile Joined January 2011
France192 Posts
September 20 2011 13:11 GMT
#2787
On September 20 2011 22:08 nam nam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 21:30 Karak wrote:
On September 20 2011 20:45 Myfsk wrote:
Lawyers, lawyers everywhere ...

Being able to read wikipedia or/and use google doesn't make you lawyer. Beside, no one here know what is inside this contract.


There are few things in this world which tilt me more than watching people on the TL forums try to perform legal analysis. As someone who works in the field, it's just painful to watch. I would caution anyone against making judgments or guessing at the legal ramifications in this situation, as the tangled litigation web is quite complex.


It's fair to speculate especially when the Millenium guy specifically commented about it saying they found the contract void in french law.


The guys at Mil seems pretty dumb... to say that not having a trial period is not legal in france... well!
Day[9] made me do it.
Himali
Profile Joined July 2010
France12 Posts
September 20 2011 13:13 GMT
#2788
Millenium just made an official statement.

http://www.millenium.org/starcraft-2/accueil/actualites/statement-on-the-stephano-situation-51050

Malazan
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
England29 Posts
September 20 2011 13:14 GMT
#2789
What i get from this story: Competition for player, 1 team wins and player signs contract, player changes mind over legally binding contract, player looses all respect from me for rest of his career.
Lookup Steven Erikson, buy his books, read them - thank me later.
Ylrahc
Profile Joined September 2011
France496 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 13:22:11
September 20 2011 13:15 GMT
#2790
On September 20 2011 21:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 17:19 Denar wrote:
Complexity should have contacted Millenium directly while they were going after Stephano.

This is also a moral rule that has caused drama in the past (PuMa is the most obvious example). If coL doesn't follow the moral rules (and not contacting the team that the player is playing for is sneaky), then the legal rules are what's left.

The conclusion of this story though is that many teams agree on the beast potential Stephano has, let's hope this is not wasted and that we'll see him competing at the best level!


ffs read the OP -.-'

They were talking with one another. They were trying to outbid each other for Stephano!

No, they were not. Read it yourself. Nowhere it is written that coL contacted Millenium. coL contacted Stephano and that's it, the so called bidding war was with Stephano as man-in-the-middle, making both (if not more) teams believe what he wanted, probably not out of greediness but out of ignorance and immaturity.

The only problem here was Stephano's indecision and eagerness to sign on and then double-back. He may not understand you can't do that... but ignorance of the law isn't an excuse x.x Obviously, people are going to be pissed.

Stephano's to blame. I like the guy, but he messed up.

I however do agree with you here Apart from the law part, noone knows exactly what followed law and what didn't here. However, if it is revealed that someone broke the law at some point (be it complexity because they offered an invalid contract, Stephano because broke his col contract, or Millenium because they signed an already signed player), then this someone will have to pay the price. Let's hope the 3 parts can come to a gentlemen agreement before suing is made though.
Shadow and dust
MenSol[ZerO]
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada1134 Posts
September 20 2011 13:16 GMT
#2791
the only solid fact i can get from this is that stephano is not a man of is word. He signed the contract and told catz that it was going be his final decision and then proceeds to ignore complexity.

Show some integrity man
Prime/MarineKing!!! www.twitter.com/DayTripperSC
Bobster
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany3075 Posts
September 20 2011 13:17 GMT
#2792
On September 20 2011 22:06 SolidMustard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 21:59 Bobster wrote:
On September 20 2011 21:51 SolidMustard wrote:
On September 20 2011 21:43 Dandy_Moustachu wrote:
On September 20 2011 21:31 TidusX.Yuna wrote:
What really makes me sad is that is that Stephano may be confined to the French scene. He's definitely one of the most up and coming players right now and I'd love to watch him tear it up outside of France. Anyone who can 2-1 MMA in a ZvT (Remember MLG anaheim when SlayerS TvZ seemed unbeatable).... he has the potential to become one of the best/most exciting foreigners to ever play this game. It seems like this whole ordeal is definitely throwing a wrench into that


Why would he stay confined in the french scene ?
Millenium send a ton of players to DreamHack Summer, IEM Cologne, Assembly Summer, Homestory Cup, they send ToD at MLG Colombus (or another one, not sure)

I'm pretty sure they said they'll want to send Stephano to MLG even before all this mess (and remember MLG is not really interesting for EU players, poor seeding (hello Incontrol) little price pool) but as i can be wrong.



You can't be serious... Millenium is really bad at sending their players to the main events (aka MLG and GSL), they want to stay focused so that their sponsors have good visibility in France... which is stupid imo (that's why they don't sen players to Korea, at least that's what they say)

Anyway Stefano would obviously have attended more and better tournaments at coL/MVP than at Millenium

How many complexity players have been sent to GSL? (Drewbie and...?)
How many complexity players have been sent to IEM?
Dreamhack?
Assembly?
HomestoryCup?
ESCW?

Playing at an MLG instead of all the European tournaments hardly seems like "more and better tournaments" to me. :/


But that said, I hope Millenium sends Stephano to every tournament he wants to participate in, including MLG and GSL (if he so chooses).



The point is coL CAN send their players wherever they want, they have a partnership with a top-level korean team, and always have lots of players at MLG (which is the second best level tournament to GSL imo, except for annual event ofc).

On the other side, Millenium DOES NOT WISH to compete in american or korean events because they say they want their sponsors to have exposure in Europe and especially France... So yeah, by staying at Millenium, Stefano is most likely going to do the low-level europeans LANs and not go to the upper level (which is most probably gonna slow down his progression as a player...)

If Stephano doesn't wish to compete in these tournaments at this point (which is implied when choosing Millenium over complexity), who are we to disagree?

That said, the level of play in the European top tournaments is generally better than that of MLG anyway, so it's not that big of a deal in that sense - but there's something to be said for sending a young player abroad (meaning outside of the comfy EU) to gain experience.

And with that said, he is competing at IPL, so it doesn't seem like Millenium is completely against sending him overseas.


Regardless of where he ends up, I really hope Stephano competes in all the tournaments he wants and can practice SC2 without having to worry about money, I love seeing him play.
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
September 20 2011 13:17 GMT
#2793
On September 20 2011 22:14 Malazan wrote:
What i get from this story: Competition for player, 1 team wins and player signs contract, player changes mind over legally binding contract, player looses all respect from me for rest of his career.

Or you can see it as some could do : One player thinks he has to travel to america to be the best, then suddenly realise that he'd to leave his friends/family so he changes mind and stay.

To be honest, CoL can't suit Stephano with american law and international law are ... complex. So 'lol'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Merlimoo
Profile Joined January 2011
France192 Posts
September 20 2011 13:17 GMT
#2794
We don't care about the law or the teams that both want the good player and will try anything (appropriate enough) to get him.

Stephano has sh** in the bed. He is young and I'm willing to forgive him.
Poll: Are you ?

Yes (65)
 
61%

No (42)
 
39%

107 total votes

Your vote: Are you ?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No

Day[9] made me do it.
Kareltje
Profile Joined July 2011
Netherlands14 Posts
September 20 2011 13:19 GMT
#2795
Millenium thanks for the statement!

However I wonder if you are ever gonna achieve:
if anything, this unfortunate series of event has pointed out the impending necessity to ease worldwide communication between structures, and players, to avoid this kind of situation from ever occurring again.


I guess this is some sort of ambition to get the G7 to work again?

The amount of communication that is possible now-a-days between all parties included is almost unlimited. You make it sound like you need to wait for a regular letter exchange between people. There seem to be only three parties involved and the probably all have internet and a phone....

Nevertheless hopefully this gets resolved fast and with minimum fall-out.
mindjames
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Israel325 Posts
September 20 2011 13:19 GMT
#2796
On September 20 2011 21:44 Folco wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 21:20 Supcraft.Rez wrote:
On September 20 2011 20:32 atavus wrote:
On September 20 2011 20:31 Supcraft.Rez wrote:
So let me get this straight about Millenium.

1. First they say there were "disorienting methods" used by coL to acquire Stephano, then they take it back.
2. First they say they would send Stephano to international tournaments, then they take it back.
3. They decide to not answer mails from coL altogether.
4. They say coL are trying to influence an 18 year-old, while giving him their own "advice", which includes ignoring coL completely (instead of, say, figure out the 'loopholes' with them?).
5. They send out a couple of harsh statements to the public and then say they don't "plan on explaining Millenium’s reasoning to the Internet community".

Even if they're following the law and doing everything in a clean manner, they've come off as unprofessional e-sports thugs. It's become obvious that Mill can't afford to top coL's offers and are therefore trying to muscle themselves out of the situation in order to keep Stephano on their side.

Mill should really learn more from TL and less from Coach Lee.


Do you have any proof of that ?

Proof of what?
Proof of Mill not being able to top coL's offer?
Do you really think they would go through this shitstorm if they could just make a counteroffer?
-_-

Edit: To the point, no, it is speculation. But think about it, seriously.

Who are you ? You seem to be very sure of what you are saying, without providing any evidence.
Your last post just show that you don't even know Millenium or french esport.
So you follow the easyline, Complexity is worldwide known, Millenium is not. So Complexity is right and Millenium is wrong.

Sorry, but I really think that it is a bit more Complex than that.

And by the way, I think you forgive really quickly the french law infringement by Complexity...


1. I like how you used "who are you?" as a way to dismiss what I said.
2. You keep asking for evidence, which is all nice, but you won't say for what.
3. Okay, so I don't know Millenium or french eSports. So? Again, trying to dismiss my point. Try making a point yourself.
4. I'm not trying to defend coL, I'm commenting Millenium's behavior in this specific incident.
5. Regarding the contract, you're making it sound like coL has committed a crime by signing a contract with Stephano in English. In reality, Mill (or Stephano) is using french law to try and nullify the contract. Also, I don't see how this is relevant to what I've said.
Bobster
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany3075 Posts
September 20 2011 13:20 GMT
#2797
On September 20 2011 22:17 Merlimoo wrote:
We don't care about the law or the teams that both want the good player and will try anything (appropriate enough) to get him.

Stephano has sh** in the bed. He is young and I'm willing to forgive him.
Poll: Are you ?

Yes (65)
 
61%

No (42)
 
39%

107 total votes

Your vote: Are you ?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No


Needs a third option "depends on further info".
Ylrahc
Profile Joined September 2011
France496 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 13:25:04
September 20 2011 13:20 GMT
#2798
On September 20 2011 22:07 Boardin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 21:38 Ylrahc wrote:
On September 20 2011 21:24 T0fuuu wrote:
On September 20 2011 20:41 Ylrahc wrote:
On September 20 2011 20:34 T0fuuu wrote:
On September 20 2011 19:34 Ylrahc wrote:
7) Stephano signs with Millenium, Internet drama follows.
What coL did was at best not very classy.[b] They tried to poach Stephano. Why do you think they never directly contacted Millenium before signing Stephano : because they thought they would have a better chance signing it doing so. [/b

Lol? how can you poach a player that isnt signed and is in open negotiations with more than 2 teams? If millenium is willing to give counteroffers to complexity then its pretty obvious it was a bidding war and one that col. won. Why should they notify millenium that they have signed a player? It would be like rubbing it in their face and is almost brag like. You cant even have a better chance of signing if its signed? If over the course of 18 days or however long stephano was a free agent millenium couldnt give him a competitive deal then its bad business on their end.

You didn't read points 1 to 6 very closely did you. After Stephano was in open discussion with a lot of teams, he declined them all and promised Millenium he would spend another year with them. Thus the open negociations were finished. There is nothing wrong with coL trying to hire Stephano after this point, but they should have done it by negociating with Stephano AND Millenium. (then again, only speaking about what is morally right here, as I said before it has nothing to do with the law, as noone here is in the position to know what was legal and what wasn't in this story)


You are certainly on millenniums side but at least try to read what complexity has posted? Millennium were aware that complexity were still working with stephano and made counteroffers if so how were negotiations closed? Its not like they woke up at 3am and thought. OMG THEY STOLE OUR PLAYER, they obviously didnt bring everything they were willing to offer to stephano when they went to bed the night before col's announcement so it is their own fault. They then release their own announcement and make stephano sign another agreement to play with them. Call col, dishonest and using disorientating tactics (lol?) and drum up support for themselves by bragging about website hits and some nationalistic go french esports lines. There was no moral wrong for not talking with millenium.

Thinking that Millenium was aware is completly different than directly speaking to Millenium. coL NEVER stated anywhere that they discussed directly with Millenium before signing Stephano. They spoke to Stephano only and believed Stephano spoke to Millenium about it because Stephano told them about the counter offers. Millenium, on the other hand, tells coL never spoke to them and they weren't aware of the last coL offers (ie, after Stephano gave them their word he would stay for another year in M)
I do believe M SC2 Manager on this, and I do believe coL never spoke directly to Millenium. coL carefully worded their announcements to make people believe M was involved, but they never directly said M was indeed involved.
Not saying that M was flawless either. I did agree in my first post that top manager M announcement was seen as too aggressive, and their behavior towards coL contract is imho wrong. I only say that on the moral side of this story Complexity is not totally white either, and that seems to me to be an obvious fact that most coL supporters are missing.

There was no moral wrong for not talking with millenium.

Okay, then it's not morally wrong to try to hire a player without speaking to the team he has an oral contract with. I think you lost me here. Furthermore, M should have been at least informed of the last coL offer before Stephano actually signs it. It's called not acting behind someone's back.




Col did not need to talk to Millenium, neither did M need to talk to Col. This is normal. The player was not under contract, you dont need to talk to every other suitor of the player. It doesnt matter what is said behind closed doors to Stephano to get them to sweeten the deal. Unless he says, okay and signs with you, it doesnt matter. Even if he does it is not Col's fault Stephano is getting into formal agreements with 2 different companies.

Again not sure how you can fault Col for not talking to M. When you leave for a new job does your new employer have to call your old one to make sure its okay? Or in sports do you have to check with their old team? We arent talking about a player under contract, we are talking about a free agent.

You talk about acting behind someones back. Thsi is business, how old are you?

I'm thirty, employed and wealthy, tyvm. Thing is, it was recognized earlier in this thread that a moral contract is a force to be recognized between 2 parties. It happens there was one between Stephano and M at some point. After this point, any team wanting to recruit Stephano should have talked to M as well.
Aside from this, it is common between two clans to discuss when one wants to recruit a player from the other (EG / TL for HuK, M / TL for HuK, M / Empire for Tarson are examples)
I took my own conclusions, take the ones you want.

And the Millenium Statement that I told you would come, as well as the negociation part :

Greetings everyone,



As you may now know, it has been announced yesterday that Stephano had been hired by team Complexity, and a few hours later, that he had finally decided to sign a permanent position contract with us, Millenium, under conditions previously fixed with him (without any intermediate overbidding).

Although we are very confident that, from a legal point of view, Millenium isn’t violating any applicable rule or law, we would also like to emphasize our good will to see this situation solved the right way.

We now want to enter a discussion phase with coL to try and find a solution consistent with the professionalism and respectful practices in the growing scene of eSport that both structures wish to promote and support. If anything, this unfortunate series of event has pointed out the impending necessity to ease worldwide communication between structures, and players, to avoid this kind of situation from ever occurring again.

To our fans and to all the people supporting eSport in general, we want to thank you for your everlasting support and for your interest in the values that should be carried by eSport structures.

As for the people who may have been disappointed, shocked or offended, we would like you to understand that Internet gossip is not always ground truth, and that things are often more complicated than they might seem to be. We would like to apologize for the long time it took us to release a statement, but the last two days have been very stressful and exhausting for everyone involved. In addition, very practical difficulties ranging from busy schedules to time differences partially account for some of the mistakes or misunderstandings that might have led to this complicated situation.

Hoping that you will understand us,



The Millenium Staff

source : http://www.millenium.org/starcraft-2/accueil/actualites/statement-on-the-stephano-situation-51050
It feels good to be right !
Shadow and dust
Mordiford
Profile Joined April 2011
4448 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 13:23:24
September 20 2011 13:22 GMT
#2799
On September 20 2011 22:06 Zorkmid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 22:03 r4pture wrote:
On September 20 2011 21:56 Zorkmid wrote:
I see some parallels between this situation and the one with Destiny.

If you look at those 2 situations combined, it feels like coL could be a bit pushy with contracts and deadlines to the point that players have signed without being sure that that was what they wanted to do.

coL should post the contract for everyone to see.


This is actually very different then Destinys contract with coL. Steven spoke directly with Jason Lake (I believe) to be released from his contract on good terms, on the grounds he only signed it because he did not want to let his ROOT team mates down, feeling that if he failed to sign that the deal would not go through. Destiny and the entirety of the coL roster are still on speaking and practice terms, and Destiny is still good friends with all his former ROOT teammates (Catz and MInigun at the very least).

This is very, very different.


I didn't mean anything about whether or not he was friends with coL players. All I meant was that this isn't the first time that a prominent player has apparent;y signed a contract with coL only to back out of it immediately. There must be something about the way coL conducts business that precipitates that stuff.


I don't know how you draw that conclusion at all, Destiny is still not on a team and said that he felt he didn't want to be limited in regards to what he could say for fear of putting off sponsors which is why he withdrew from Complexity, that does not reflect poorly on Complexity's ability to conduct business at all.

That's like if I request to resign my job because I find the commute from my house too troublesome and someone says, "Well, I'm just saying, that company had a dude quit before". You have to actually consider the circumstances of why the player is leaving, in the case of Destiny, I don't think his leaving says anything about Complexity's business standards.
mechavoc
Profile Joined December 2010
United States664 Posts
September 20 2011 13:22 GMT
#2800
http://www.millenium.org/starcraft-2/accueil/actualites/statement-on-the-stephano-situation-51050
Statement on the Stephano situation
20/09/2011 à 14:59 - Actualités - 0 commentaires

Greetings everyone,



As you may now know, it has been announced yesterday that Stephano had been hired by team Complexity, and a few hours later, that he had finally decided to sign a permanent position contract with us, Millenium, under conditions previously fixed with him (without any intermediate overbidding).

Although we are very confident that, from a legal point of view, Millenium isn’t violating any applicable rule or law, we would also like to emphasize our good will to see this situation solved the right way.

We now want to enter a discussion phase with coL to try and find a solution consistent with the professionalism and respectful practices in the growing scene of eSport that both structures wish to promote and support. If anything, this unfortunate series of event has pointed out the impending necessity to ease worldwide communication between structures, and players, to avoid this kind of situation from ever occurring again.

To our fans and to all the people supporting eSport in general, we want to thank you for your everlasting support and for your interest in the values that should be carried by eSport structures.

As for the people who may have been disappointed, shocked or offended, we would like you to understand that Internet gossip is not always ground truth, and that things are often more complicated than they might seem to be. We would like to apologize for the long time it took us to release a statement, but the last two days have been very stressful and exhausting for everyone involved. In addition, very practical difficulties ranging from busy schedules to time differences partially account for some of the mistakes or misunderstandings that might have led to this complicated situation.

Hoping that you will understand us,



The Millenium Staff

Prev 1 138 139 140 141 142 158 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12h 32m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 177
SortOf 154
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3350
Rain 1234
Horang2 1014
actioN 707
Leta 687
BeSt 458
Soma 429
Flash 277
Stork 254
hero 184
[ Show more ]
EffOrt 167
Killer 147
Zeus 143
PianO 91
Last 88
Hyun 85
ggaemo 81
ToSsGirL 81
Sharp 79
Pusan 70
ZerO 49
Mind 42
Shinee 35
soO 20
Rush 17
Sacsri 16
Movie 16
JulyZerg 10
Bale 9
HiyA 6
Dota 2
XcaliburYe171
League of Legends
JimRising 517
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1590
Other Games
singsing1592
ceh9595
Pyrionflax240
crisheroes213
DeMusliM45
Fuzer 41
Mew2King29
ZerO(Twitch)9
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL5942
Other Games
gamesdonequick778
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 40
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1898
• Lourlo560
Upcoming Events
OSC
12h 32m
The PondCast
23h 32m
OSC
1d 1h
Wardi Open
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Safe House 2
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Safe House 2
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.