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On September 20 2011 21:27 Bobster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 18:01 Boonbag wrote:On September 20 2011 17:56 Bobster wrote:On September 20 2011 17:54 alexlw92 wrote:
im confused. hypothetically, if this were to go to court, would it be french or american? if he's a french citizen (im assuming), and he signs a contract from an american corporation, does it follow american or french laws? The problem is that there aren't enough lawyers on Team Liquid to answer these simple questions. :p We just have to wait and see. On September 20 2011 17:56 Boonbag wrote:
lol hes 18 he isn't young wtf haha Uh, no. He's still a child, basically. Legally responsible, though. dude flash was signing contracts at 14 at 18 you're perfectly mature enough to handle your own shit Ask any 18 year old how mature they are. Then ask them 10 years later how mature they were at 18. :p Just trust me.
then get an agent or your dad to sign the contract for you, as it is usuarlly done in soccer with younger players. dont expect a salary from playing proffesionally a video game, and then say "oh no im young and immature so i can just break a contract"
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What really makes me sad is that is that Stephano may be confined to the French scene. He's definitely one of the most up and coming players right now and I'd love to watch him tear it up outside of France. Anyone who can 2-1 MMA in a ZvT (Remember MLG anaheim when SlayerS TvZ seemed unbeatable).... he has the potential to become one of the best/most exciting foreigners to ever play this game. It seems like this whole ordeal is definitely throwing a wrench into that 
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I have been thinking about this and I don't think the focus should be on what is and isn't legal.
The real issue here should be about integrity (of Mil and the player).
Stephano as an adult agreed to sign with Col after 18 days of negotiations to a deal that would have been great for Col (they get a very good player) and Stephano (High pay, travl abroad, international exposure, training in Korea).
After that event and knowing there was a signed agreement Mil still went after this player and gave him what seems to be a worse deal (money ?, focus on french tournaments.... )
So legality aside Mil had 18 days to step up and make their case and failed. Stepahno gave his word (in writing) and then backed out on it pulling a major Major in my book.
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On September 20 2011 21:24 T0fuuu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 20:41 Ylrahc wrote:On September 20 2011 20:34 T0fuuu wrote:On September 20 2011 19:34 Ylrahc wrote:
7) Stephano signs with Millenium, Internet drama follows.
What coL did was at best not very classy.[b] They tried to poach Stephano. Why do you think they never directly contacted Millenium before signing Stephano : because they thought they would have a better chance signing it doing so. [/b Lol? how can you poach a player that isnt signed and is in open negotiations with more than 2 teams? If millenium is willing to give counteroffers to complexity then its pretty obvious it was a bidding war and one that col. won. Why should they notify millenium that they have signed a player? It would be like rubbing it in their face and is almost brag like. You cant even have a better chance of signing if its signed? If over the course of 18 days or however long stephano was a free agent millenium couldnt give him a competitive deal then its bad business on their end. You didn't read points 1 to 6 very closely did you. After Stephano was in open discussion with a lot of teams, he declined them all and promised Millenium he would spend another year with them. Thus the open negociations were finished. There is nothing wrong with coL trying to hire Stephano after this point, but they should have done it by negociating with Stephano AND Millenium. (then again, only speaking about what is morally right here, as I said before it has nothing to do with the law, as noone here is in the position to know what was legal and what wasn't in this story) You are certainly on millenniums side but at least try to read what complexity has posted? Millennium were aware that complexity were still working with stephano and made counteroffers if so how were negotiations closed? Its not like they woke up at 3am and thought. OMG THEY STOLE OUR PLAYER, they obviously didnt bring everything they were willing to offer to stephano when they went to bed the night before col's announcement so it is their own fault. They then release their own announcement and make stephano sign another agreement to play with them. Call col, dishonest and using disorientating tactics (lol?) and drum up support for themselves by bragging about website hits and some nationalistic go french esports lines. There was no moral wrong for not talking with millenium.
Thinking that Millenium was aware is completly different than directly speaking to Millenium. coL NEVER stated anywhere that they discussed directly with Millenium before signing Stephano. They spoke to Stephano only and believed Stephano spoke to Millenium about it because Stephano told them about the counter offers. Millenium, on the other hand, tells coL never spoke to them and they weren't aware of the last coL offers (ie, after Stephano gave them their word he would stay for another year in M)
I do believe M SC2 Manager on this, and I do believe coL never spoke directly to Millenium. coL carefully worded their announcements to make people believe M was involved, but they never directly said M was indeed involved.
Not saying that M was flawless either. I did agree in my first post that top manager M announcement was seen as too aggressive, and their behavior towards coL contract is imho wrong. I only say that on the moral side of this story Complexity is not totally white either, and that seems to me to be an obvious fact that most coL supporters are missing.
There was no moral wrong for not talking with millenium.
Okay, then it's not morally wrong to try to hire a player without speaking to the team he has an oral contract with. I think you lost me here. Furthermore, M should have been at least informed of the last coL offer before Stephano actually signs it. It's called not acting behind someone's back.
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On September 20 2011 21:31 Matkap wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 21:27 Bobster wrote:On September 20 2011 18:01 Boonbag wrote:On September 20 2011 17:56 Bobster wrote:On September 20 2011 17:54 alexlw92 wrote:
im confused. hypothetically, if this were to go to court, would it be french or american? if he's a french citizen (im assuming), and he signs a contract from an american corporation, does it follow american or french laws? The problem is that there aren't enough lawyers on Team Liquid to answer these simple questions. :p We just have to wait and see. On September 20 2011 17:56 Boonbag wrote:
lol hes 18 he isn't young wtf haha Uh, no. He's still a child, basically. Legally responsible, though. dude flash was signing contracts at 14 at 18 you're perfectly mature enough to handle your own shit Ask any 18 year old how mature they are. Then ask them 10 years later how mature they were at 18. :p Just trust me. then get an agent or your dad to sign the contract for you, as it is usuarlly done in soccer with younger players. dont expect a salary from playing proffesionally a video game, and then say "oh no im young and immature so i can just break a contract"
I already said that 18 year-olds are legally responsible.
I just replied to the guy who said 18-year olds were "not young" or "mature". They're young. They're immature. They're basically children. This doesn't excuse anything (they're perfectly capable of getting advice, or an agent, or whatever) but that's all I'm saying.
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On September 20 2011 21:31 TidusX.Yuna wrote:What really makes me sad is that is that Stephano may be confined to the French scene. He's definitely one of the most up and coming players right now and I'd love to watch him tear it up outside of France. Anyone who can 2-1 MMA in a ZvT (Remember MLG anaheim when SlayerS TvZ seemed unbeatable).... he has the potential to become one of the best/most exciting foreigners to ever play this game. It seems like this whole ordeal is definitely throwing a wrench into that
Why would he stay confined in the french scene ?
Millenium send a ton of players to DreamHack Summer, IEM Cologne, Assembly Summer, Homestory Cup, they send ToD at MLG Colombus (or another one, not sure)
I'm pretty sure they said they'll want to send Stephano to MLG even before all this mess (and remember MLG is not really interesting for EU players, poor seeding (hello Incontrol) little price pool) but as i can be wrong.
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Meh, it's Stephano's first blunder from what I'm reading that I'm aware of. He's young, teams are relatively inexperienced, cultures clash, these kinds of things just happen until it all becomes routine. I'll just chalk this up to inexperience unless it becomes a habit.
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On September 20 2011 21:20 Supcraft.Rez wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 20:32 atavus wrote:On September 20 2011 20:31 Supcraft.Rez wrote:
So let me get this straight about Millenium.
1. First they say there were "disorienting methods" used by coL to acquire Stephano, then they take it back.
2. First they say they would send Stephano to international tournaments, then they take it back.
3. They decide to not answer mails from coL altogether.
4. They say coL are trying to influence an 18 year-old, while giving him their own "advice", which includes ignoring coL completely (instead of, say, figure out the 'loopholes' with them?).
5. They send out a couple of harsh statements to the public and then say they don't "plan on explaining Millenium’s reasoning to the Internet community".
Even if they're following the law and doing everything in a clean manner, they've come off as unprofessional e-sports thugs. It's become obvious that Mill can't afford to top coL's offers and are therefore trying to muscle themselves out of the situation in order to keep Stephano on their side.
Mill should really learn more from TL and less from Coach Lee. Do you have any proof of that ? Proof of what? Proof of Mill not being able to top coL's offer? Do you really think they would go through this shitstorm if they could just make a counteroffer? -_- Edit: To the point, no, it is speculation. But think about it, seriously.
Who are you ? You seem to be very sure of what you are saying, without providing any evidence.
Your last post just show that you don't even know Millenium or french esport.
So you follow the easyline, Complexity is worldwide known, Millenium is not. So Complexity is right and Millenium is wrong.
Sorry, but I really think that it is a bit more Complex than that.
And by the way, I think you forgive really quickly the french law infringement by Complexity...
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On September 20 2011 21:31 TidusX.Yuna wrote:What really makes me sad is that is that Stephano may be confined to the French scene. He's definitely one of the most up and coming players right now and I'd love to watch him tear it up outside of France. Anyone who can 2-1 MMA in a ZvT (Remember MLG anaheim when SlayerS TvZ seemed unbeatable).... he has the potential to become one of the best/most exciting foreigners to ever play this game. It seems like this whole ordeal is definitely throwing a wrench into that
I wouldn't count IEM, Assembly, [Dreamhack], MLG and IPL as part of the French scene. 
But yeah, I share your concern - it would be a shame if Millenium sends him to less high-profile tournaments than complexity would have done. Here's hoping this is fixed in the contract.
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On September 20 2011 19:46 Apom wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 13:53 Ryder. wrote:On September 20 2011 13:34 Crosswind wrote:On September 20 2011 13:07 Ryder. wrote:On September 20 2011 12:30 Crosswind wrote:
Dear Citizens of the Internet,
It may shock some of you to hear that sometimes 18-year olds are inconsistent. It may amaze you that teams run by people who are largely ex-gamers and self-taught amateur businessmen may not live up to your standards of professionalism. But rest assured - this is not the first time these things have happened, and it will not be the last. Some might go so far as to say that these things happen
all the time.
Hating 18-year-olds for changing their minds or fledgling organizations for lacking professionalism is like hating a dog for chasing cars. Probably justifiable, but ultimately silly.
Smile, and cheer for Stephano, who is a fantastic and promising player, or for Mill/CoL, who are excellent teams giving young players opportunities.
-Cross Dear uninformed citizen of the internet, It may shock you to hear this but at 18 years old (at least where I live) you have full capacity to contract and you are legally bound by the terms you enter into in contracts. ... I mean if you are 18 and you commit murder you are able to be punished as an adult because you ARE an adult. Doesn't matter if you were 17 four months ago, you gotta draw the line somewhere. Sure these acts are different... teams run by people who are largely ex-gamers and self-taught amateur businessmen may not live up to your standards of professionalism. No excuse champ, if you are gonna play with the big boys then you abide by their rules. Ignorance is no excuse. Just FYI, in case you missed it, you just compared an 18 year old going back on a contract, something that it is not even clear is illegal, to murdering somebody. How much of a douchebag are you going to feel like when it turns out that what he did wasn't even illegal, so not only are you flipping out over some amateur hour teams and a kid, but you're flipping out incorrectly? A little perspective here, people. -Cross (P.S. I have no opinion on accountability. But the amount of hate going on for parties involved is disproportionate. You all are making far too much out of a bunch of commonplace, unsurprising events.) As I said, I don't know shit about French law, if they have some dodgy loopholes to help people avoid their contractual obligations good for them. But in most countries breach of contract IS illegal and you are legally obliged to either fulfill the contract or pay damages. Of course the severity of the act is nothing close to murder, why the fuck would you try and act like it is? The point is both of these actions are illegal, and you can't just let one of them go unpunished because it is less severe. As I said I am going by what is law in Australia (as well as a lot of other places). If French law lets you get out of this then fine, but the point I was addressing is that you think it's ok for 18 year olds to renege on their promises because they feel like changing their mind, and that is wrong*. *excluding gay loopholes in French lawEdit: Just because it is a 'commonplace, unsurprising event' doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences.
I want to say I'm worried that stephano hurt his image by making a silly choice, but I know people will forget in a week. I am kind of disappointed that stephano went back on his word
You can bet your ass future, prospective teams won't though... I'm sure it will factor into their decisions in the future. How aren't you banned for this yet ? :/ Also, people who are saying that you can evade contractual obligations under French law are starting to get annoying. As a general rule, you can't. Someone said you have seven days to change your mind about buying a house : that is true, but is an exception. This provision, known as droit de repentir (right to renege ?), only applies to a set of specific contracts, of which buying a house is one, but Stephano's contract certainly is not. A related clause, known as période d'essai (trial period ?), can be specified in employment cotnracts, but it is not mandatory nor implicit. The only way for Stephano to evade his contractual obligations with coL is if the contract is deemed illegal in the first place. While it certainly doesn't qualify as a proper employment contract under French law (for numerous reasons - coL even somewhat admitted to this), it is designed as an international contract, and it may very well be legal as such, especially under Texan law (which it defines as its ruling law). The last issue here is enforceability. If the contract is deemed legal by the Texan judge (which is very likely), and the French judge deems it an illegal employment contract (which is also very likely), then the contract will be null on French soil. What can be done if, and when, Stephano sets foot in the US, is another matter.
Lol trust a french poster to insist I should be banned for that... It was clearly a tongue-in-cheek comment, you really think I should be banned about making a snide joke about French law? Particularly since most people in this thread (excluding the French of course) think that this kind of loophole IS stupid due to the way their respective legal system works...
Your post is interesting though, there are a lot of posts (especially from French posters) say that because of French law he IS able to squirm out of the contract due to this '7 day cool-off period' and there is nothing coL is able to do about it. So it is interesting that you (as a French poster) seem to insist that he isn't able to get out of it. Do you have any special knowledge of law that gives you this opinion? Also why would a French judge classify it as illegal employment contract?
(Genuine questions, I am just interested as every other French poster has said that Stephano will be able to get out of this contract).
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On September 20 2011 21:43 Dandy_Moustachu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 21:31 TidusX.Yuna wrote:What really makes me sad is that is that Stephano may be confined to the French scene. He's definitely one of the most up and coming players right now and I'd love to watch him tear it up outside of France. Anyone who can 2-1 MMA in a ZvT (Remember MLG anaheim when SlayerS TvZ seemed unbeatable).... he has the potential to become one of the best/most exciting foreigners to ever play this game. It seems like this whole ordeal is definitely throwing a wrench into that Why would he stay confined in the french scene ? Millenium send a ton of players to DreamHack Summer, IEM Cologne, Assembly Summer, Homestory Cup, they send ToD at MLG Colombus (or another one, not sure) I'm pretty sure they said they'll want to send Stephano to MLG even before all this mess (and remember MLG is not really interesting for EU players, poor seeding (hello Incontrol) little price pool) but as i can be wrong.
You can't be serious... Millenium is really bad at sending their players to the main events (aka MLG and GSL), they want to stay focused so that their sponsors have good visibility in France... which is stupid imo (that's why they don't sen players to Korea, at least that's what they say)
Only exception : Tod at MLG colombus and I think it was his decision, not Millenium's (and he left the team shortly after...)
Anyway Stefano would obviously have attended more and better tournaments at coL/MVP than at Millenium, but he was too weak to not change his mind when he faced Millenium managers saying "you cannot do this to us, you wouldn't be anything withous us..."
I'm so ashamed that M is french now TT
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French or not it's pretty shitty that he's trying to back out of a signed contract. If he wasn't sure about switching he shouldn't have signed in the first place.
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I see some parallels between this situation and the one with Destiny.
If you look at those 2 situations combined, it feels like coL could be a bit pushy with contracts and deadlines to the point that players have signed without being sure that that was what they wanted to do.
coL should post the contract for everyone to see.
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On September 20 2011 17:19 Denar wrote:
Complexity should have contacted Millenium directly while they were going after Stephano.
This is also a moral rule that has caused drama in the past (PuMa is the most obvious example). If coL doesn't follow the moral rules (and not contacting the team that the player is playing for is sneaky), then the legal rules are what's left.
The conclusion of this story though is that many teams agree on the beast potential Stephano has, let's hope this is not wasted and that we'll see him competing at the best level!
ffs read the OP -.-'
They were talking with one another. They were trying to outbid each other for Stephano!
The only problem here was Stephano's indecision and eagerness to sign on and then double-back. He may not understand you can't do that... but ignorance of the law isn't an excuse x.x Obviously, people are going to be pissed.
Stephano's to blame. I like the guy, but he messed up.
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On September 20 2011 21:44 Folco wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 21:20 Supcraft.Rez wrote:On September 20 2011 20:32 atavus wrote:On September 20 2011 20:31 Supcraft.Rez wrote:
So let me get this straight about Millenium.
1. First they say there were "disorienting methods" used by coL to acquire Stephano, then they take it back.
2. First they say they would send Stephano to international tournaments, then they take it back.
3. They decide to not answer mails from coL altogether.
4. They say coL are trying to influence an 18 year-old, while giving him their own "advice", which includes ignoring coL completely (instead of, say, figure out the 'loopholes' with them?).
5. They send out a couple of harsh statements to the public and then say they don't "plan on explaining Millenium’s reasoning to the Internet community".
Even if they're following the law and doing everything in a clean manner, they've come off as unprofessional e-sports thugs. It's become obvious that Mill can't afford to top coL's offers and are therefore trying to muscle themselves out of the situation in order to keep Stephano on their side.
Mill should really learn more from TL and less from Coach Lee. Do you have any proof of that ? Proof of what? Proof of Mill not being able to top coL's offer? Do you really think they would go through this shitstorm if they could just make a counteroffer? -_- Edit: To the point, no, it is speculation. But think about it, seriously. Who are you ? You seem to be very sure of what you are saying, without providing any evidence. Your last post just show that you don't even know Millenium or french esport. So you follow the easyline, Complexity is worldwide known, Millenium is not. So Complexity is right and Millenium is wrong. Sorry, but I really think that it is a bit more Complex than that. And by the way, I think you forgive really quickly the french law infringement by Complexity...
Which law infringement? You accuse others of posting without knowing anything about the matter yet you post about a supposed french law infringement by complexity without (I guess) knowing the details of the contract.
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On September 20 2011 21:51 SolidMustard wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 21:43 Dandy_Moustachu wrote:On September 20 2011 21:31 TidusX.Yuna wrote:What really makes me sad is that is that Stephano may be confined to the French scene. He's definitely one of the most up and coming players right now and I'd love to watch him tear it up outside of France. Anyone who can 2-1 MMA in a ZvT (Remember MLG anaheim when SlayerS TvZ seemed unbeatable).... he has the potential to become one of the best/most exciting foreigners to ever play this game. It seems like this whole ordeal is definitely throwing a wrench into that Why would he stay confined in the french scene ? Millenium send a ton of players to DreamHack Summer, IEM Cologne, Assembly Summer, Homestory Cup, they send ToD at MLG Colombus (or another one, not sure) I'm pretty sure they said they'll want to send Stephano to MLG even before all this mess (and remember MLG is not really interesting for EU players, poor seeding (hello Incontrol) little price pool) but as i can be wrong. You can't be serious... Millenium is really bad at sending their players to the main events (aka MLG and GSL), they want to stay focused so that their sponsors have good visibility in France... which is stupid imo (that's why they don't sen players to Korea, at least that's what they say) Anyway Stefano would obviously have attended more and better tournaments at coL/MVP than at Millenium
How many complexity players have been sent to GSL? (Drewbie and...?)
How many complexity players have been sent to IEM?
Dreamhack?
Assembly?
HomestoryCup?
ESCW?
Playing at an MLG instead of all the European tournaments hardly seems like "more and better tournaments" to me. :/
But that said, I hope Millenium sends Stephano to every tournament he wants to participate in, including MLG and GSL (if he so chooses).
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On September 20 2011 21:47 Ryder. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 19:46 Apom wrote:On September 20 2011 13:53 Ryder. wrote:On September 20 2011 13:34 Crosswind wrote:On September 20 2011 13:07 Ryder. wrote:On September 20 2011 12:30 Crosswind wrote:
Dear Citizens of the Internet,
It may shock some of you to hear that sometimes 18-year olds are inconsistent. It may amaze you that teams run by people who are largely ex-gamers and self-taught amateur businessmen may not live up to your standards of professionalism. But rest assured - this is not the first time these things have happened, and it will not be the last. Some might go so far as to say that these things happen
all the time.
Hating 18-year-olds for changing their minds or fledgling organizations for lacking professionalism is like hating a dog for chasing cars. Probably justifiable, but ultimately silly.
Smile, and cheer for Stephano, who is a fantastic and promising player, or for Mill/CoL, who are excellent teams giving young players opportunities.
-Cross Dear uninformed citizen of the internet, It may shock you to hear this but at 18 years old (at least where I live) you have full capacity to contract and you are legally bound by the terms you enter into in contracts. ... I mean if you are 18 and you commit murder you are able to be punished as an adult because you ARE an adult. Doesn't matter if you were 17 four months ago, you gotta draw the line somewhere. Sure these acts are different... teams run by people who are largely ex-gamers and self-taught amateur businessmen may not live up to your standards of professionalism. No excuse champ, if you are gonna play with the big boys then you abide by their rules. Ignorance is no excuse. Just FYI, in case you missed it, you just compared an 18 year old going back on a contract, something that it is not even clear is illegal, to murdering somebody. How much of a douchebag are you going to feel like when it turns out that what he did wasn't even illegal, so not only are you flipping out over some amateur hour teams and a kid, but you're flipping out incorrectly? A little perspective here, people. -Cross (P.S. I have no opinion on accountability. But the amount of hate going on for parties involved is disproportionate. You all are making far too much out of a bunch of commonplace, unsurprising events.) As I said, I don't know shit about French law, if they have some dodgy loopholes to help people avoid their contractual obligations good for them. But in most countries breach of contract IS illegal and you are legally obliged to either fulfill the contract or pay damages. Of course the severity of the act is nothing close to murder, why the fuck would you try and act like it is? The point is both of these actions are illegal, and you can't just let one of them go unpunished because it is less severe. As I said I am going by what is law in Australia (as well as a lot of other places). If French law lets you get out of this then fine, but the point I was addressing is that you think it's ok for 18 year olds to renege on their promises because they feel like changing their mind, and that is wrong*. *excluding gay loopholes in French lawEdit: Just because it is a 'commonplace, unsurprising event' doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences.
I want to say I'm worried that stephano hurt his image by making a silly choice, but I know people will forget in a week. I am kind of disappointed that stephano went back on his word
You can bet your ass future, prospective teams won't though... I'm sure it will factor into their decisions in the future. How aren't you banned for this yet ? :/ Also, people who are saying that you can evade contractual obligations under French law are starting to get annoying. As a general rule, you can't. Someone said you have seven days to change your mind about buying a house : that is true, but is an exception. This provision, known as droit de repentir (right to renege ?), only applies to a set of specific contracts, of which buying a house is one, but Stephano's contract certainly is not. A related clause, known as période d'essai (trial period ?), can be specified in employment cotnracts, but it is not mandatory nor implicit. The only way for Stephano to evade his contractual obligations with coL is if the contract is deemed illegal in the first place. While it certainly doesn't qualify as a proper employment contract under French law (for numerous reasons - coL even somewhat admitted to this), it is designed as an international contract, and it may very well be legal as such, especially under Texan law (which it defines as its ruling law). The last issue here is enforceability. If the contract is deemed legal by the Texan judge (which is very likely), and the French judge deems it an illegal employment contract (which is also very likely), then the contract will be null on French soil. What can be done if, and when, Stephano sets foot in the US, is another matter. Lol trust a french poster to insist I should be banned for that... It was clearly a tongue-in-cheek comment, you really think I should be banned about making a snide joke about French law? Particularly since most people in this thread (excluding the French of course) think that this kind of loophole IS stupid due to the way their respective legal system works... Your post is interesting though, there are a lot of posts ( especially from French posters) say that because of French law he IS able to squirm out of the contract due to this '7 day cool-off period' and there is nothing coL is able to do about it. So it is interesting that you (as a French poster) seem to insist that he isn't able to get out of it. Do you have any special knowledge of law that gives you this opinion? Also why would a French judge classify it as illegal employment contract? (Genuine questions, I am just interested as every other French poster has said that Stephano will be able to get out of this contract).
Is it a cultural habit to put words in the mouth of others ? Before it get worse, with frenchies vs world none sens, please note that many of "french" posts were just saying that we have some laws that can IN SOME CASES be more protective of the people instead of the corporation, that have an all mighty power in the US culture. And I'm pretty sure that we are not the only ones... Anyway, as such, signing a contract in not the end of the story.
Please note, that we (as everybody here) dont know sh** about Stephano's one.
So please stop saying that we are sure that he can escape his mistakes. As every balanced human being would think, if everything was done correctly, by no means he can escape this, except the fact that is would be pretty stupid from coL to recrut somebody that does not want to be there.
Personal trollish note:
+ Show Spoiler +
As the US culture is, I think they just want a some financial compensation, for having managed to get a click on a website from a guy far far away...
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On September 20 2011 21:56 Zorkmid wrote:
I see some parallels between this situation and the one with Destiny.
If you look at those 2 situations combined, it feels like coL could be a bit pushy with contracts and deadlines to the point that players have signed without being sure that that was what they wanted to do.
coL should post the contract for everyone to see.
This is actually very different then Destinys contract with coL. Steven spoke directly with Jason Lake (I believe) to be released from his contract on good terms, on the grounds he only signed it because he did not want to let his ROOT team mates down, feeling that if he failed to sign that the deal would not go through. Destiny and the entirety of the coL roster are still on speaking and practice terms, and Destiny is still good friends with all his former ROOT teammates (Catz and MInigun at the very least).
This is very, very different.
EDIT: Seems I misread your post. There is nothing wrong with being firm with contracts, a lot of money gets thrown around with these things, it would be foolish to be "loose" with these contracts when such money is on the line.
On a side note, its my personal hope Complexity sues Stephano and Mill into the ground. I don't even want to see Stephano on coL now, but I want them to know that business is business and contracts are not to be taken lightly and simply ignored like a bratty child.
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On September 20 2011 21:59 Merlimoo wrote:Personal trollish note: + Show Spoiler +
As the US culture is, I think they just want a some financial compensation, for having managed to get a click on a website from a guy far far away...
+ Show Spoiler +
No. They want money for being made to look like fools. And they deserve it.
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On September 20 2011 21:59 Bobster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 21:51 SolidMustard wrote:On September 20 2011 21:43 Dandy_Moustachu wrote:On September 20 2011 21:31 TidusX.Yuna wrote:What really makes me sad is that is that Stephano may be confined to the French scene. He's definitely one of the most up and coming players right now and I'd love to watch him tear it up outside of France. Anyone who can 2-1 MMA in a ZvT (Remember MLG anaheim when SlayerS TvZ seemed unbeatable).... he has the potential to become one of the best/most exciting foreigners to ever play this game. It seems like this whole ordeal is definitely throwing a wrench into that Why would he stay confined in the french scene ? Millenium send a ton of players to DreamHack Summer, IEM Cologne, Assembly Summer, Homestory Cup, they send ToD at MLG Colombus (or another one, not sure) I'm pretty sure they said they'll want to send Stephano to MLG even before all this mess (and remember MLG is not really interesting for EU players, poor seeding (hello Incontrol) little price pool) but as i can be wrong. You can't be serious... Millenium is really bad at sending their players to the main events (aka MLG and GSL), they want to stay focused so that their sponsors have good visibility in France... which is stupid imo (that's why they don't sen players to Korea, at least that's what they say) Anyway Stefano would obviously have attended more and better tournaments at coL/MVP than at Millenium How many complexity players have been sent to GSL? (Drewbie and...?) How many complexity players have been sent to IEM? Dreamhack? Assembly? HomestoryCup? ESCW? Playing at an MLG instead of all the European tournaments hardly seems like "more and better tournaments" to me. :/ But that said, I hope Millenium sends Stephano to every tournament he wants to participate in, including MLG and GSL (if he so chooses).
The point is coL CAN send their players wherever they want, they have a partnership with a top-level korean team, and always have lots of players at MLG (which is the second best level tournament to GSL imo, except for annual event ofc).
On the other side, Millenium DOES NOT WISH to compete in american or korean events because they say they want their sponsors to have exposure in Europe and especially France... So yeah, by staying at Millenium, Stefano is most likely going to do the low-level europeans LANs and not go to the upper level (which is most probably gonna slow down his progression as a player...)
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EPT
