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On September 08 2011 11:37 Cel.erity wrote:
I can give one reason why I personally have lost some interest in the GSL (although I still love it!). It's because I no longer identify with any of the players. In the early seasons, we got player interviews after every match, and players all had their own quirks and styles. Now we have all these new players, mostly Terran, who all play exactly the same, and I can't tell them apart.
One huge reason for this is lack of player interviews. We need more player interviews! Another huge reason is that they're all coming up through Code A and being cast by the Code A casters, so we don't get the same kind of analysis on their styles and their history as we would from Tastosis. It seems like the only time I get to know any of these players is from the GSTL, where their personalities really shine, and Artosis talks about the important differences between them. All of my favorite new players have come from the GSTL.
Finally, tangent, but Tastosis is just commentating a lot less than usual. They don't do the Up-and-Downs, they don't do Code A, and they only do GSTL half of the time. I know they said they wanted to give Tastosis a break by hiring new casters, but really? Casting less than half of the time now?
TL;DR: Gom needs to add more interviews and more Tastosis to make GSL exciting again.
Artosis needs to do interview with viewer submitted questions...I miss him and the players getting trolled all the time.
I think more tastosis would be good. Even if the games are terrible they are still very entertaining.
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terran has the best mirror, the best nonmirror(tvz) and a pretty good match up in tvp when they dont all in. a protoss or zerg heavy gsl would honestly be close to unwatchable because of the mirrors. so korea being so in love with terran may hurt, but it isnt nearly as bad as it could be. gsls biggest issue remains to be their absurdly volatile ro32 format. it leads to a lot of good and popular players going out in round 1 and a lot of mediocre players advancing. it also cant be forgotten that gsl starts anywhere from 2am to 5 am in the U.S. this is hard to watch for just about anyone, but people made time for it when it was the only competitive tourney on. it is still the highest level tourney in the world, but now that there is a ton of starcraft 2 on, its harder to make the sacrifice to stay up late and watch gsl.
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Most of the viewership hasn't lost interest, sorry to hear you have.
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yeah GSL needs to step up and offer tastetosis BIG contracts to cast full time. They have earned it and probably have contributed hugely to GSL revenue in subscriber fees. Sending them around the world shows that there is more money elsewere for them.
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IMO isn't Gom's fault, like Blizzard due to game balance(time'll help)
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On September 08 2011 11:56 j0ker wrote:
terran has the best mirror, the best nonmirror(tvz) and a pretty good match up in tvp when they dont all in. a protoss or zerg heavy gsl would honestly be close to unwatchable because of the mirrors. so korea being so in love with terran may hurt, but it isnt nearly as bad as it could be. gsls biggest issue remains to be their absurdly volatile ro32 format. it leads to a lot of good and popular players going out in round 1 and a lot of mediocre players advancing. it also cant be forgotten that gsl starts anywhere from 2am to 5 am in the U.S. this is hard to watch for just about anyone, but people made time for it when it was the only competitive tourney on. it is still the highest level tourney in the world, but now that there is a ton of starcraft 2 on, its harder to make the sacrifice to stay up late and watch gsl.
The thought of PvP (as it currently stands, that is) ever being as prevalent as TvT is today is frightening, to say the least. The only thing going for it would be that it ends quickly.
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more player flushing please:
last person in RO32 group: instant Code A
3rd person in RO32 group: up and downs
code A is now 64 players
semifinalists: instant code S
positions 5 - 16: up n downs
up n downs:
20 players, 12 spots, (maybe 10, giving 2 spots to MLG 1st and 2nd place)
split groups accordingly
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Too much Code S, too many games that add up to a junior league (Code A), not enough GSTL. GSL needs to build Hype.
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On September 08 2011 11:54 Boozerr wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4Cm0f.png) There were a total of 8 games out of 85 that didn't involve terran. There is no way that can be interesting
Oh wow, didn't realize there were such few games that weren't against Terran 0o
8 out of 85 games, that means 9% of the games from this GSL didn't have a Terran :|
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for me the problem stems from extreme oversaturation of starcraft content. i mean, gsl--in some form or another-- is broadcast almost nightly. pitted against the torrent of other starcraft content out there, suddenly a night of bo3's doesn't have the same anticipation; obviously exceptions do apply.
gom are doing great things in terms of injected entertainment value. broadcasting code a quals, yellow's code a journey, alternating casters, giving seeds to foreigners etc. the problem isn't with gom; at least not with their content creation. the problem, as i see it, is a combination of things, as it often turns out to be.
firstly, there is a war being waged at this stage in starcraft's development as an esport. the war is being fought between broadcasters. the starcraft community is an untapped resource, a revenue stream that advertisers and content creators don't really know how to efficiently tap into, yet. as a result of this, the community is presented with a slew of content, ranging from low quality, 10fps user streams to $50 weekly cups to mid-tier, mid-prestige value tournaments (EGMC) all the way through to the GSLs, MLGs, IPLs, Dreamhacks and more. Simply put, if you ever want to watch somebody else play starcraft, you can.
this affects starcraft as a whole, and GSL code:s specifically by reducing the originality and excitement value of raw game content. given the GSL began with what i can reasonably assume was massive popularity, it's to be expected that people are now left wanting when the content that used to put them on the edge of their seat has lost some intensity.
i believe the GSL is still second only to the 3-day tournaments (MLG, DH) in terms of watch ability. these short burst tournaments have the advantage of LAN environment, spectator involvement, the suspense of watching an underdog rise AND to have it resolved within the weekend, amongst other things. however when the average watcher of starcraft is likely not GM, or even masters, a lot of the decision making and metagaming is actually lost on them. it's up to the casters for the most part, to convey the excitement of what's actually happening, behind the scenes of a proxy 2-rax or a +2 blink stalker timing or anything, and this hasn't really happened yet.
TLDR; because I wont be able to write everything I have to say in under an essay length post
~there is an oversaturation of content, reducing our interest in most standard content
~some tournaments have interest OUTSIDE of the content (MLG) lan environment, meet players, see underdogs
~weeks long tournament content can all seem very similar to the sub-grandmasters watcher/player, scII is a game that's hard to distinguish between SICK good play and "good" play, unless you have that knowledge yourself.
~casters (some can, far more than others) have trouble explaining rationale, decision making, beyond "oh he's making 30 roaches, and the +1 and now he's attacking, and oh the roaches are lal gone!".
~GSL began so high, it's more evident (and obviously problematic) when a big force loses momentum than vice versa
~terran presence in the gsl/tournaments in general is also an issue when caster's are not quite capable of explaining deep decision making.
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GSL Code S is by no means lacking content, skill, or diversity in MUs. It's just that it became stagnant player-wise with the same group of people winning. Code S is the hardest tournament to enter and so easy to fall out of, that new players can't get used to the format before they get knocked out. The players who has been constantly in Code S that is not part of the group mentioned before has plateaued or becoming inconsistent with results. Tastosis doesn't travel around the world for money but to support the foreign scene. They know Korea has the best competition and therefore would stay in GOM regardless of pay. IMO its because of MLG being more close to home in other words more accessible to us foreigners. Those who haven't personally been to the GOMTV Studios and watched the GSL can't really judge between the entertainment values of the two. Let's face it, more people watched MLG in person than GSL, and with Koreans going to MLG they feel more satisfied. I bet if there was an all-Korean tournament in U.S. soil then it would be more entertaining than both.
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On September 08 2011 12:05 kKagari wrote:
more player flushing please:
last person in RO32 group: instant Code A
3rd person in RO32 group: up and downs
code A is now 64 players
semifinalists: instant code S
positions 5 - 16: up n downs
up n downs:
20 players, 12 spots, (maybe 10, giving 2 spots to MLG 1st and 2nd place)
split groups accordingly
Bad system, in scenarios such as group of death a player insta-falls down without any chance of redemption so for example this season Losira would join MC in code A, MVP would've been in the up-downs several times.
Your system is bad because it creates a highly unstable tournament, people would go in and out of Code S like flies
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What people want is to watch Code B through Code S to show people just how impressive it is for people to simply *be* in Code S.
-----Edit------
Also, the time zone differences is a big factor as well. It's easier to enjoy MLG while awake compared to enjoying GSL while trying hard not to pass out from lack of sleep.
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On September 08 2011 12:13 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:
GSL Code S is by no means lacking content, skill, or diversity in MUs. It's just that it became stagnant player-wise with the same group of people winning. Code S is the hardest tournament to enter and so easy to fall out of, that new players can't get used to the format before they get knocked out. The players who has been constantly in Code S that is not part of the group mentioned before has plateaued or becoming inconsistent with results. Tastosis doesn't travel around the world for money but to support the foreign scene. They know Korea has the best competition and therefore would stay in GOM regardless of pay. IMO its because of MLG being more close to home in other words more accessible to us foreigners. Those who haven't personally been to the GOMTV Studios and watched the GSL can't really judge between the entertainment values of the two. Let's face it, more people watched MLG in person than GSL, and with Koreans going to MLG they feel more satisfied. I bet if there was an all-Korean tournament in U.S. soil then it would be more entertaining than both.
u only need to win 1 game to stay in code S =/ its not that easy to fall out of...like i said earlier, needs more player flushing.
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On September 08 2011 11:57 piknic wrote:
yeah GSL needs to step up and offer tastetosis BIG contracts to cast full time. They have earned it and probably have contributed hugely to GSL revenue in subscriber fees. Sending them around the world shows that there is more money elsewere for them.
I wouldn't watch Gomtv if Tasteosis wasn't there. It wouldn't even feel right. Khaldor going to code A is going to improve casting there too. Luckily it doesn't look like tastosis is going anywhere.
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MLG is fun because it is a short-term event, a live event with a huge crowd. Everyone looks forward to it arriving and enjoys the atmosphere of an "MLG weekend".
GSL is on all the time.
It is natural that it generates less excitement.
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On September 08 2011 12:17 kKagari wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 12:13 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:
GSL Code S is by no means lacking content, skill, or diversity in MUs. It's just that it became stagnant player-wise with the same group of people winning. Code S is the hardest tournament to enter and so easy to fall out of, that new players can't get used to the format before they get knocked out. The players who has been constantly in Code S that is not part of the group mentioned before has plateaued or becoming inconsistent with results. Tastosis doesn't travel around the world for money but to support the foreign scene. They know Korea has the best competition and therefore would stay in GOM regardless of pay. IMO its because of MLG being more close to home in other words more accessible to us foreigners. Those who haven't personally been to the GOMTV Studios and watched the GSL can't really judge between the entertainment values of the two. Let's face it, more people watched MLG in person than GSL, and with Koreans going to MLG they feel more satisfied. I bet if there was an all-Korean tournament in U.S. soil then it would be more entertaining than both. u only need to win 1 game to stay in code S =/ its not that easy to fall out of...like i said earlier, needs more player flushing.
Edit: It still depends if you can win or not.
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On September 08 2011 12:14 Zeroxk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 12:05 kKagari wrote:
more player flushing please:
last person in RO32 group: instant Code A
3rd person in RO32 group: up and downs
code A is now 64 players
semifinalists: instant code S
positions 5 - 16: up n downs
up n downs:
20 players, 12 spots, (maybe 10, giving 2 spots to MLG 1st and 2nd place)
split groups accordingly
Bad system, in scenarios such as group of death a player insta-falls down without any chance of redemption so for example this season Losira would join MC in code A, MVP would've been in the up-downs several times. Your system is bad because it creates a highly unstable tournament, people would go in and out of Code S like flies
when you are playing for at least 1.5k US iirc, imo it should be highly volatile. maybe make the double elimination games all BO3 or something, but it prevents ppl like fruitdealer sticking around for money just winning that 1 game every season. those games are stagnant
and what makes losira and MC 'special' that they should have a better time sticking around in code S (i like losira btw), if they lose, they lose, and like everyone else, they should gtfo of code S. code S isnt a gentlemen's club where u sit around waiting to get paid...
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On September 08 2011 12:18 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 12:17 kKagari wrote:On September 08 2011 12:13 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:
GSL Code S is by no means lacking content, skill, or diversity in MUs. It's just that it became stagnant player-wise with the same group of people winning. Code S is the hardest tournament to enter and so easy to fall out of, that new players can't get used to the format before they get knocked out. The players who has been constantly in Code S that is not part of the group mentioned before has plateaued or becoming inconsistent with results. Tastosis doesn't travel around the world for money but to support the foreign scene. They know Korea has the best competition and therefore would stay in GOM regardless of pay. IMO its because of MLG being more close to home in other words more accessible to us foreigners. Those who haven't personally been to the GOMTV Studios and watched the GSL can't really judge between the entertainment values of the two. Let's face it, more people watched MLG in person than GSL, and with Koreans going to MLG they feel more satisfied. I bet if there was an all-Korean tournament in U.S. soil then it would be more entertaining than both. u only need to win 1 game to stay in code S =/ its not that easy to fall out of...like i said earlier, needs more player flushing. Wait what? You need two wins from two different people in your group to advance? Where did you get that idea? Also Up/Down you need three wins from three different people to get back in Code S.
if u win your first game, u wont fall out of code S even if u lose the next 2 in the current system,
and even if you do lose ur first game, if you win the next one, you'll stay in code S too. so really, you only need to get 1 win. 1 win = 1.5k~ish USD
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honestly the GSL is on so late for us too.
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EPT
