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Code S might be losing entertainment value. - Page 19

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Cyrak
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada536 Posts
September 08 2011 02:02 GMT
#361
I will continue to support GSL even though I am only really interested in ZvT and Protoss games. It isn't GOM's fault that there are 20 Terrans and it's important that GSL stays big and successful through the bad times as well as the good ones.
Fortune favors the prepared mind.
skrzmark
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1528 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-08 02:06:58
September 08 2011 02:03 GMT
#362
It doesn't matter... Anaheim MLG wasn't that exciting for me, Rayleigh was only good because of Nada reverse sweeping Puma and DRG v Hero which we didn't see. MLG is just becoming a TvT fest as well.

Honestly the MLG system is way worst than GSL at the moment. Talk about staying in for a season for too long? If GSL used MLG format then MVP would of never been in Code A in the first place due to Jan. Championship.

The fact is that Code S does in fact cycle new players in each season. I mean the only reason why Code S feels like it doesn't cycle out new players is because the top tier players stay at the top. People say HongUn doesn't deserve Code S but he continues to keep placing top 2 in his group, while you have the same people in MLG placing 0-5 each tournament...

Stop trying to derail e-sports by typing OP's saying SC2 games are boring compared to other tournaments. GOMTV is fixing the entertainment value, they're streaming Code A qualifiers, Blizzcon GSL Finals, and watch this Saturday's All-Star match. Most of the MLG cheers you hear at MLG is cheers from the other games anyways.


Also: less terrans may be qualifying for Code A due to the new map pool.

Just wait for the next patch. Maybe protoss will go for Immortal Busts now.
We got them GOM TvT's and them mlGG's
bittman
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia8759 Posts
September 08 2011 02:03 GMT
#363
With the GSL format, I mainly take issue with the Best-of-1 matches dictating the future make up for Code S. A player who might struggle with a Best of 1, but better read a player in a Bo3 format is not rewarded since both the group stages and Up/Down matches are now Bo1. And then funnily enough, Code S continues with Bo3, Bo5 and Bo7 which hasn't been determined as the advancing player's strength.

Also: it's a non issue for me the state of Terran in Korea. Not many players race switch ever in their career, so really it's just that a lot of the best players (ignoring race) in Korea are actually terran. That, to me, is nothing to do with the race but everything to do with the players. I haven't really bought into the imbalance of the game before, though I do think Terran has a lot of advantages at the game design level that mean the race's potential is much higher than the other two, so as time goes on and the metagame gets worked out, Terran starts to look really strong from a viewer standpoint.

Anyway, my predominant issue with the GSL tournament is it's use of Best of 1s to determine who is the best option for a Bo3 format tournament. Why not just flip a few coins and make a Ro16 out of it instead? =/

Would be better if they stretched the group stage out a bit. Sure, their goal of being like one GSL a month might fall, but the Ro16 and Up/Down would be more justifiable if players don't just need to all-in two players in a row.

Will GSL change though? No probably not, the tournament lives in the shadow of Brood War tournaments which it aspires to. This makes me sad =(
Mvp - Leenock - Dongraegu - MC - Gumiho - Keen - Polt - Squirtle - Jjakji - Genius - Seed - Life - sC - Dream || LG-IM - MVP - FXO
Hodgy
Profile Joined September 2011
United States64 Posts
September 08 2011 02:04 GMT
#364
GSL? I stopped watching that when the games that were so hyped ended up being IMMvp micro-ing his marines and winning in under 3 minutes =P
"I'm not an asshole, I just don't give a fuck a lot." -Tyler the Creator
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-08 02:06:31
September 08 2011 02:05 GMT
#365
On September 08 2011 10:53 Dommk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2011 10:47 pdd wrote:
On September 08 2011 10:43 slothpants wrote:
I don't think Code S is getting dull. I think people are complaining too much and expecting too much.

For those who think there are too many TvT:

It's not GOM's fault that Terrans are winning. Whether its due to race imbalance, better players, or simply better strategies, the same is true for every event. The only reason it doesn't happen at MLG is because GOM sends at least one player of each race and Korean's have proven they are skilled enough to overcome any race imbalance.

For those who think there aren't enough foreigners:

The MLG/GSL exchange has provided more foreigners. Realistically, the more you support e-sports , the larger it will grow and sponsors will be more inclined to send players overseas. Furthermore, by stating that you will only watch something with foreigners, you are essentially saying that you don't want to watch the best competition. When foreigners are willing to commit to the training and lifestyle that's required, see Huk, then there is good reason for them to be there. I'm not going to support someone who feels they should be rewarded or receive special treatment simply because of their nationality, overlooking their inability to excel at the game.

If anything, I'd like to see suggestions on how to improve the North American starcraft scene so that it can produce "Korean" quality players.

But there are just way too many Korean Terrans. And right now, the best players in the world are Korean Terrans. Yeah, you have your Nestea here mixed in with them, but other than him, every top of the line player at the moment is a Korean Terran. Look at the past 3 MLGs. 3 Korean Terran winners.

Everywhere else in the world this doesn't seem to be the case and is a little more balanced in terms of racial distribution.

There are just as many if not more Protoss/Zerg players as there are Terran.

Check out the preliminaries: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_Global_StarCraft_II_League_October/Preliminaries , 44 Protoss, 37 Zerg and 31 Terran from notable teams attended


Yeah, but look at the Code S and A distribution for the August GSL. 32/64 players were Terran. That's half.

Heck, look at the Korean ladder on sc2ranks. A significant number of top tier (and I'm talking about top top tier) players are Terran.

19 of the Top 30 Korean/TW players are Terran.

Compared to other servers where:
15 of the Top 30 Chinese players are Terran
15 of the Top 30 American players are Terran
13 of the Top 30 EU players are Terran

The ladder stats aren't really as conclusive as I initially expected (there were times when almost everyone in the Top 20 were Terran) but it nonetheless shows that a lot of the best of the best players in Korea are Terrans.
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
el_dawg
Profile Joined September 2011
United States164 Posts
September 08 2011 02:06 GMT
#366
Hey guys, long time lurker.

Like a lot of posters in this thread, I have purchased every GOM ticket, except for the most resent GSL. For me the number one reason Code S has become less interesting to watch is the amount of predictable outcomes. In Starcraft 2, the better player wins almost all the time which is exactly how it should be, but the GSL tournament format does not work well with this fact. So many matches are one sided and predictable.

However, I don't think adding variance to the game or tournament structure is the correct choice (not that anyone is really suggesting this).

One solution might be a tournament setup with a larger field and Swiss pairings (each round players play against someone with the same overall record before cutting to a top 8 at the end of the season). Each week, the producers could choose a few highlight matches to be played live in studio as well as cast any exceptional replays. Feature matches would be chosen to showcase fan favorites, upcoming talent, players of equal skill, varied match-ups or interesting stories. While this system wouldn't broadcast every match, hopefully the ones chosen would keep fans interested.
Eps
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada240 Posts
September 08 2011 02:06 GMT
#367
When I watch a competition, I'm looking to watch the Best players out there compete. I couldn't care less about the nationality of the players. The same goes for the races.

GOM has no control over these factors. It's up to the players themselves to last.
MoriyaGXP
Profile Joined September 2010
Korea (South)240 Posts
September 08 2011 02:08 GMT
#368
Marine should cost 75 minerals
Jaedong/Bisu/Tossgirl fan <3
Perseverance
Profile Joined February 2010
Japan2800 Posts
September 08 2011 02:11 GMT
#369
I agree that the GSL is kind of boring...I always tune in for MLG but never bother watching the GSL, despite it being in my timezone. Personally I would like to see more foreigners in it but I dont think that will happen for a while...
<3 Moonbattles
OpTicalRH
Profile Joined June 2011
147 Posts
September 08 2011 02:13 GMT
#370
On September 08 2011 06:48 Grobian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2011 06:02 lizzard_warish wrote:
I can put my finger on why GSL is getting boring, and so can most people from what I've seen; watching thirty tvt's in a row is fucking gay.

User was warned for this post


^this, pls dont ban me, but its the truth..

i still love gsl, i'm but also enjoy tvz but tvt... no sry enough is enough

User was temp banned for this post for martyring.



"...temp banned for martyring"

ROFL, this cracked me up
theBizness
Profile Joined July 2011
United States696 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-08 02:14:36
September 08 2011 02:13 GMT
#371
When I pay especially, I want to watch the best players play, not mediocre players create drawn out "epic" games due to sloppy play. GSL Code A qualifiers are probably more competitive than MLG.
Less money for casters, more money for players.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
September 08 2011 02:14 GMT
#372
I believe that the code A code S system is awful and that it'd be much better if it was all just dumped together, maybe have code S get byes first round, and then add in a few open bracket slots.

It really gets boring seeing the same faces every time. I also think that the casting isn't as good as it could be but I'm certain I'm in the minority with that.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Al Bundy
Profile Joined April 2010
7257 Posts
September 08 2011 02:21 GMT
#373
On September 08 2011 11:00 TolEranceNA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2011 08:05 AlBundy wrote:
If you guys find TvT boring then you don't really love starcraft. It's like saying "I hate amusement parks because roller coasters are boring". edit; well that didn't make sense.

Also why bring up MLG in this conversation? There are too many arguments favoring GSL over MLG, most of them are obvious, such as format, skill level, production value, amount of drama...

Sure the GSL's format is far from perfect, but I think it's definitely better than MLG. Playing dozens of competitive games during the span of only 3 days is just insane to me. That's not how RTS are supposed to be played. This stuff definitely seems to be working fine with fighting games and first person shooters, but doesn't seem suited AT ALL for strategy games.

It is what it is: if one wants to display top strategies and top tactics, one absolutely needs time in order to properly prepare and plan. As a spectator I prefer watching GSL games because the players are actually prepared for their opponents, they received specific training and developed specific strategies. I know these matches will feature unique builds, tailor-made strategies and elaborate mind games.

Can you imagine if the Chargers had to play the Patriots, the Giants, the Redskins, and the Raiders all in the same day? That may seem far fetched but that's what MLG looks like to me. There is no way that format can produce the highest level games.

Anyway in my opinion if you win MLG, well congratulations that means you have good stamina and you are well-rounded. Just like a Street Fighter or a MvC3 player. Whereas if you win GSL, that means you're a true master strategist. You're like Napoleon or Flash.

Also don't even get me started on the awful pool system. All in all, that 3-day format really bothers me but it's not just MLG, there's Dreamhack too.

As Mr Chae said, MLG is a festival. Indeed it is a fucking funfair, it's not a genuine RTS tournament to me. It is a 3-day fucking stacked to the max marathon ffs. In conclusion, even though I would love GSL to adapt their format to the growing number of progamers, I'll alway be interested in watching the best players duke it out.


PS: TL used to be THE place to meet true Sc fans but where are they now? The more I read this forum, the more I see casual spectators who are not even THAT interested in the game, but are really interested in making threads to complain about it. TvT boring, seriously?


Oh please, the all powerful god, are you serious that we can't like a specific MU? And that means we don't like starcraft in general? Are you serious that we can't have a opinion on different MU? Please, you are not the only one person in the world and everyone has a opinion on MU, you might like T v T and i totally respect that, but if you say if you don't like T v T you dont like starcraft. You, sir, just made one of the most stupid statement i've seen here.

How about you read again what I wrote? I said "you don't really love starcraft" There's a difference between "liking" and "really loving" something.
o choro é livre
Tektos
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia1321 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-08 02:28:40
September 08 2011 02:26 GMT
#374
I personally enjoy GSL Code S more than MLG so I think you're over-generalizing a bit.

Sure it would be a little better if there were a few less terrans but overall that doesn't affect my enjoyment too much.
usethis2
Profile Joined December 2010
2164 Posts
September 08 2011 02:27 GMT
#375
I am losing interest in GSL and SC2 in general as well. My own play is stagnant and repetitive. Watching pro games (read: Mech TvT) puts me to sleep.
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
September 08 2011 02:27 GMT
#376
On September 08 2011 11:03 skrzmark wrote:
It doesn't matter... Anaheim MLG wasn't that exciting for me, Rayleigh was only good because of Nada reverse sweeping Puma and DRG v Hero which we didn't see. MLG is just becoming a TvT fest as well.

We must not have watched the same MLG Raleigh. Raleigh was a massive improvement on Anaheim in terms of racial distribution and non-TvT match-ups. Or have you forgotten that the finals and the winner's bracket finals were TvZs and the loser's bracket finals was a ZvZ?

Oh wait, people just like to complain and say that MLG is just a bunch of TvTvTvT because apparently it's cool and hip to do so.

Complain about Anaheim all you want, but stop making it seem like Raleigh was TvT all across the board, because it wasn't.
Oreo7
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1647 Posts
September 08 2011 02:27 GMT
#377
Too many terrans is the issue nothing else
Stork HerO and Protoss everywhere - redfive on bnet
Xxavi
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1248 Posts
September 08 2011 02:27 GMT
#378
I really like watching Protoss play. I mainly watch tourneys for that reason. I might also mix it up with ZvT, which sometimes I find as interesting. But the current race distribution has been nothing short of a joke, I cannot seriously consider all these TOPs and Polt's a better player than MC. I just don't feel like watching anymore.

Even ZvTs are getting boring for me. The fact that Terran had too many useful units, too many options was known from Day 1. Don't know why they have to keep it the way it is.

Basically, these days, I only watch MLGs. And I skip TvTs and good chunk of ZvTs.
Bart
Profile Joined November 2010
494 Posts
September 08 2011 02:28 GMT
#379
for me its the TvT. If it is a terran that I support like MKP i'll watch but otherwise i'm getting bored. Plus past few days i've been getting a lot of lag which pisses me off and i turn it off to watch How I met your mother season 4.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | Fan of: MKP, Select, MC, Kripp, Purge, JP, Qpad Red Pandas
askTeivospy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1525 Posts
September 08 2011 02:28 GMT
#380
the reason i watch GSL less and less relative to MLG is simply because of the time that it is on (2am)

GSTL is still fun to watch but i have life stuff to do the next morning and even if i didnt then staying up late will simply fuck up my sleeping habits for the day after and its annoying to try and fix it ._> Thus I RARELY watch GSL anymore
hihihi
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