EPTCode S might be losing entertainment value. - Page 18
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firefistAce
United States137 Posts
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On September 08 2011 10:21 ReaperX wrote: It's definitely possible, and a lot of people have been complaining the quality of games has dropped because all we see are mirror matchups atm (TvT). Hopefully Code A will lighten things up as there are very few Terrans in Code A next season and hopefully more Protoss and Zerg will advance to Code S to lighten up the TvT issue we've been having concurrently. Have you been watching PvT lately? The match up is completely garbage right now. 90% of the games are one base all-ins and Protoss doing blind Voidray all-in's trying to counter 1-1-1 hoping the Terran 1-1-1'd and didn't get cloak. Even then, the games that do end up in a macro game, the entire thing is over in a single fight where the Protoss gets carpeted by EMP's and losses to Terrans mass ghost late game :| TvP is without doubt of the worst match ups to watch right now, I don't know how anyone can find it entertaining... At least TvT produces some back and forth games. When was the last time you saw something like that in PvZ and PvT? | ||
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Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
1. The gigantic amount of Terrans. I find TvT to be the best of the 3 mirror matchups but it's still a boring mirror nonetheless. 2. Very little foreigner representation. The only regular foreigner in the GSL at the moment is HuK. 3. MLG actually being used as an argubaly easier way to get a Code S seed. Since the league exchange program, no foreigner has recieved a Code S spot becuase all the Korean invitees and general entrants are just facerolling these events. 4. The requirement to download and use GOM Player to view the stream. This is one of the two killers for me. I do not know what GOM Player is like but I've heard mixed reviews about it, and I don't exactly want to install another media player on my computer just for the intention It's a stupid business idea. It's like Apple hosting a Starcraft II tournament and forcing people to use the bloated turd that is Quicktime in order to view it. I understand Quicktime runs well on Macs but try running it on a PC and you'll see what I mean. Or (gasps at the thought of it), RealNetworks hosting a Starcraft II tournament and then forcing viewers to view the stream using RealPlayer. Okay... maybe not as bad as being forced to use a malware filled privacy invasive piece of crap, but still not good in the way that you don't have a choice. Especially when as proven by the Code A qualifiers, GOMTV can simply use a browser based streaming site like twitch.tv. I understand Gretech want to push their media player but this isn't the way to do it. 5. The lack of rebroadcast for NA/EU viewers. This is the second of the two killers as I have to be up at like.... 9am to watch the GSL. 6. The recent break-in to GOMTV's servers. That makes me feel more and more uneasy about giving them my details, let alone my money for a season pass. 7. The lack of free VODs. You have to pay $5 for a season pass that will let you view the vods WITH ADS. That seems like a pretty cheapskatey thing to do especially since the VODs aren't that good quality even when set to HQ. Or $10 for a season pass for VODs without ads. I mean MLG shows free ad supported VODs, so does the IPL. The only other league that has premium VODs is the NASL. But at least the NASL doesn't force its viewers to view the stream with their propietary software, hosts it in an easy-to-access browser based flash format on twitch.tv and even does a European rebroadcast. Hence the reason why I mentioned 7 as an issue was that they were quite interlinked with 4 and 5. | ||
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skrzmark
United States1528 Posts
Or just get rid of groups and make each Round Bo5 until Finals. | ||
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
I prefer MLG because I can plan some shit with my friends. The last MLG I had a get together at my house with some friends, my wife, kids etc etc. Made a big pot of chili, had some drinks basically just chilled out in my basement and watched SC2 Sunday evening with friends and family. We had so much fun and it will be happening again for the next MLG. | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
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ZapRoffo
United States5544 Posts
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
The key issue of concern for me is that there are just way too many Terrans in Code S. It makes it difficult to watch for 2 reasons: 1. The are two many TvTs. The issue is not with TvT itself as TvT is perhaps one of the most fun match ups. The issue is with there being too many. 2. Most of the newer Terrans don't really have much distinguishing characteristics, making them all seem all too similar. There's no additional reason for you to root for them. Can you honestly tell me how popular Noblesse, Ensnare, Alive, asd and Happy are? I don't think its a balance issue. It's just that Korean Terrans are just too strong for one reason or another. In fact if you look at it from a whole, only in Korea are there just so many Terrans dominating top tier competitions: GSL, WCG Finals. I really don't know how GOM can fix this though. There's no real issue with the format. I think the only way they can fix it is to reboot their leagues, but even then there are just too many strong Terrans in Korea at the moment. More Zergs and Protosses need to step up. | ||
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slothpants
Canada9 Posts
For those who think there are too many TvT: It's not GOM's fault that Terrans are winning. Whether its due to race imbalance, better players, or simply better strategies, the same is true for every event. The only reason it doesn't happen at MLG is because GOM sends at least one player of each race and Korean's have proven they are skilled enough to overcome any race imbalance. For those who think there aren't enough foreigners: The MLG/GSL exchange has provided more foreigners. Realistically, the more you support e-sports , the larger it will grow and sponsors will be more inclined to send players overseas. Furthermore, by stating that you will only watch something with foreigners, you are essentially saying that you don't want to watch the best competition. When foreigners are willing to commit to the training and lifestyle that's required, see Huk, then there is good reason for them to be there. I'm not going to support someone who feels they should be rewarded or receive special treatment simply because of their nationality, overlooking their inability to excel at the game. If anything, I'd like to see suggestions on how to improve the North American starcraft scene so that it can produce "Korean" quality players. | ||
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Zeroxk
Norway1244 Posts
On September 08 2011 10:33 Clbull wrote: I've never watched the GSL live, and only watched the World Tournmant and any free VODs of it, but there are several things putting me off of it. 2. Very little foreigner representation. The only regular foreigner in the GSL at the moment is HuK. 5. The lack of rebroadcast for NA/EU viewers. This is the second of the two killers as I have to be up at like.... 9am to watch the GSL. 6. The recent break-in to GOMTV's servers. That makes me feel more and more uneasy about giving them my details, let alone my money for a season pass. 7. The lack of free VODs. You have to pay $5 for a season pass that will let you view the vods WITH ADS. That seems like a pretty cheapskatey thing to do especially since the VODs aren't that good quality even when set to HQ. Or $10 for a season pass for VODs without ads. 2: Foreigners can't compete with Koreans, refer to this season's Code A foreigner slaughter 5. Never would've thought an EU resident would complain, it's 10am GMT which is quite fine 6. The only information that could've been compromised was your account details such as username/password/e-mail, GOMTV works through paypal so there was no way to get your CC info. 7. The HQ vods are 720p, you don't call that good? You can watch the first game of every set and special events such as the world championship, LG 3D cinema finals for free. Please realize SC2 e-sports has become a business, and businesses want money, they don't have any ticket or entry fees, ads are almost non-existant on the english livestreams, sponsors are only displayed out of game and for a brief moment at the start of each game. Considering all this, how do you propose GOM make any profit when they have to pay out tens of thousands in prize-money each month, not to mention the production costs. | ||
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mrafaeldie12
Brazil537 Posts
As for the format,i think its really hard to get into Code S but you're one BO3 from being dropped. | ||
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
On September 08 2011 10:43 slothpants wrote: I don't think Code S is getting dull. I think people are complaining too much and expecting too much. For those who think there are too many TvT: It's not GOM's fault that Terrans are winning. Whether its due to race imbalance, better players, or simply better strategies, the same is true for every event. The only reason it doesn't happen at MLG is because GOM sends at least one player of each race and Korean's have proven they are skilled enough to overcome any race imbalance. For those who think there aren't enough foreigners: The MLG/GSL exchange has provided more foreigners. Realistically, the more you support e-sports , the larger it will grow and sponsors will be more inclined to send players overseas. Furthermore, by stating that you will only watch something with foreigners, you are essentially saying that you don't want to watch the best competition. When foreigners are willing to commit to the training and lifestyle that's required, see Huk, then there is good reason for them to be there. I'm not going to support someone who feels they should be rewarded or receive special treatment simply because of their nationality, overlooking their inability to excel at the game. If anything, I'd like to see suggestions on how to improve the North American starcraft scene so that it can produce "Korean" quality players. But there are just way too many Korean Terrans. And right now, the best players in the world are Korean Terrans. Yeah, you have your Nestea here mixed in with them, but other than him, every top of the line player at the moment is a Korean Terran. Look at the past 3 MLGs. 3 Korean Terran winners. I still can't figure out why though. Either there are just too many Terran players playing at a high level in Korea or Korean Terrans have really found ways to be a lot better than Korean Zergs and Protoss. It's just a really strange phenomenon. Everywhere else in the world this doesn't seem to be the case and is a little more balanced in terms of racial distribution. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On September 08 2011 10:47 pdd wrote: But there are just way too many Korean Terrans. And right now, the best players in the world are Korean Terrans. Yeah, you have your Nestea here mixed in with them, but other than him, every top of the line player at the moment is a Korean Terran. Look at the past 3 MLGs. 3 Korean Terran winners. Everywhere else in the world this doesn't seem to be the case and is a little more balanced in terms of racial distribution. There are just as many if not more Protoss/Zerg players as there are Terran. Check out the preliminaries: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_Global_StarCraft_II_League_October/Preliminaries , 44 Protoss, 37 Zerg and 31 Terran from notable teams attended | ||
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Zaurus
Singapore676 Posts
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Lamphead
Canada241 Posts
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
Maybe GOM should return to separating Team League's season from Individual League season. Team League was better when it was a tournament format, and Individual season was better when there was action going on everyday. Another important factor is the how little of Tastosis we see now compared to before. | ||
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ayekuf
United Kingdom91 Posts
Also more background and interviews with the players so we can actually get to know them, that's where fans come from. And when I say interviews I mean with hard questions, not the usual "I will try my best to play entertaining games for the fans". I even think the old Artosis interviews were great. Even interviews with players trying to qualify for Code A, everyone loves an underdog story (see DongRaeGu). Although the new GSL Qualifier coverage is helping with this somewhat. They have to remember that as foreign fans we know a lot less about these guys outside of the fact that they're awesome players. And yeah, so many TvT games, and particularly poor finals in previous seasons haven't helped the cause. Lastly... more John!! | ||
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TolEranceNA
Canada434 Posts
On September 08 2011 08:05 AlBundy wrote: If you guys find TvT boring then you don't really love starcraft. It's like saying "I hate amusement parks because roller coasters are boring". edit; well that didn't make sense. Also why bring up MLG in this conversation? There are too many arguments favoring GSL over MLG, most of them are obvious, such as format, skill level, production value, amount of drama... Sure the GSL's format is far from perfect, but I think it's definitely better than MLG. Playing dozens of competitive games during the span of only 3 days is just insane to me. That's not how RTS are supposed to be played. This stuff definitely seems to be working fine with fighting games and first person shooters, but doesn't seem suited AT ALL for strategy games. It is what it is: if one wants to display top strategies and top tactics, one absolutely needs time in order to properly prepare and plan. As a spectator I prefer watching GSL games because the players are actually prepared for their opponents, they received specific training and developed specific strategies. I know these matches will feature unique builds, tailor-made strategies and elaborate mind games. Can you imagine if the Chargers had to play the Patriots, the Giants, the Redskins, and the Raiders all in the same day? That may seem far fetched but that's what MLG looks like to me. There is no way that format can produce the highest level games. Anyway in my opinion if you win MLG, well congratulations that means you have good stamina and you are well-rounded. Just like a Street Fighter or a MvC3 player. Whereas if you win GSL, that means you're a true master strategist. You're like Napoleon or Flash. Also don't even get me started on the awful pool system. All in all, that 3-day format really bothers me but it's not just MLG, there's Dreamhack too. As Mr Chae said, MLG is a festival. Indeed it is a fucking funfair, it's not a genuine RTS tournament to me. It is a 3-day fucking stacked to the max marathon ffs. In conclusion, even though I would love GSL to adapt their format to the growing number of progamers, I'll alway be interested in watching the best players duke it out. PS: TL used to be THE place to meet true Sc fans but where are they now? The more I read this forum, the more I see casual spectators who are not even THAT interested in the game, but are really interested in making threads to complain about it. TvT boring, seriously? Oh please, the all powerful god, are you serious that we can't like a specific MU? And that means we don't like starcraft in general? Are you serious that we can't have a opinion on different MU? Please, you are not the only one person in the world and everyone has a opinion on MU, you might like T v T and i totally respect that, but if you say if you don't like T v T you dont like starcraft. You, sir, just made one of the most stupid statement i've seen here. | ||
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JasperGrimm
Canada100 Posts
The GSL crowd is mostly silent except for introductions... Even at the finals they don't make a lot of noise during the games, only before and after. Just look at that video of Boxer beating Rain from MLG Anaheim that's floating around and tell me that crowd reaction doesnt give you nerd chills! :D | ||
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MetalLobster
Canada532 Posts
On September 08 2011 10:43 slothpants wrote: I don't think Code S is getting dull. I think people are complaining too much and expecting too much. For those who think there are too many TvT: It's not GOM's fault that Terrans are winning. Whether its due to race imbalance, better players, or simply better strategies, the same is true for every event. The only reason it doesn't happen at MLG is because GOM sends at least one player of each race and Korean's have proven they are skilled enough to overcome any race imbalance. For those who think there aren't enough foreigners: The MLG/GSL exchange has provided more foreigners. Realistically, the more you support e-sports , the larger it will grow and sponsors will be more inclined to send players overseas. Furthermore, by stating that you will only watch something with foreigners, you are essentially saying that you don't want to watch the best competition. When foreigners are willing to commit to the training and lifestyle that's required, see Huk, then there is good reason for them to be there. I'm not going to support someone who feels they should be rewarded or receive special treatment simply because of their nationality, overlooking their inability to excel at the game. If anything, I'd like to see suggestions on how to improve the North American starcraft scene so that it can produce "Korean" quality players. My thoughts exactly after going through a couple pages of this post. There is no one really to blame when there are too many of said race in a tournament. GOM has no control over the balance of the game whatsoever. On the same note, many foreigners have made appearances to the GSL but the fact that they cannot stay in the GSL is not within GOM's control. If foreigners can't make a mark in Code A or Code S, then that is just too bad.\ IMHO Code S is fine the way it is. I get very excited when the rounds nears the finals and I am always hoping that every single player in GSL makes way to international events like MLG. | ||
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