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APM measurements changes in 1.4.0 - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
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arbitrageur
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia1202 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-26 13:38:49
August 26 2011 13:36 GMT
#21
zergs apm to drop significantly. 44v 55v 66v T.T sigh

EDIT: nevermind that would be 6 actions.
dbddbddb
Profile Joined April 2010
Singapore969 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-26 13:37:41
August 26 2011 13:37 GMT
#22
On August 26 2011 22:34 Geovu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 22:31 dbddbddb wrote:
On August 26 2011 22:30 Geovu wrote:
Bad IMO. I will still do the 'tapping' stuff either way, because it is actually necessary and helpful, but it just won't get counted.

In BW clicking on the minimap counted as an action iirc. Blizzard should just stop screwing with crap that wasn't even invented by blizzard. Also fix the 'minute' part of APM, make it count for 60 REAL seconds, because that is what a 'minute' IS.


that's impossible due to how the game was made. if that was the case, every timing in the game would have a decimal as it just wasnt calculated to be 60secs per min in faster mode.

Multiple by like what, x1.3 or divide by .7 (not sure which), and you are done.

lol not that hard. I don't care if something takes 103.67 seconds, you can show it as 104 seconds and it will be fine. Or just make the change for APM so that people stop thinking people in BW were unequivocally faster.



this includes build time for Everything in the game.. from units to upgrades etc, everything will have a decimal on it, you cant hide numbers from players like that. theres a reason why people say that a 0.2 movement speed on a unit is the most imbalanced thing ever etc.

there is no disadvantage in this calculation for apm as everyone is affected, so just dont compare it to BW and theres no difference.
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-26 13:39:50
August 26 2011 13:38 GMT
#23
On August 26 2011 22:37 dbddbddb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 22:34 Geovu wrote:
On August 26 2011 22:31 dbddbddb wrote:
On August 26 2011 22:30 Geovu wrote:
Bad IMO. I will still do the 'tapping' stuff either way, because it is actually necessary and helpful, but it just won't get counted.

In BW clicking on the minimap counted as an action iirc. Blizzard should just stop screwing with crap that wasn't even invented by blizzard. Also fix the 'minute' part of APM, make it count for 60 REAL seconds, because that is what a 'minute' IS.


that's impossible due to how the game was made. if that was the case, every timing in the game would have a decimal as it just wasnt calculated to be 60secs per min in faster mode.

Multiple by like what, x1.3 or divide by .7 (not sure which), and you are done.

lol not that hard. I don't care if something takes 103.67 seconds, you can show it as 104 seconds and it will be fine. Or just make the change for APM so that people stop thinking people in BW were unequivocally faster.



this includes build time for Everything in the game.. from units to upgrades etc, everything will have a decimal on it, you cant hide numbers from players like that. theres a reason why people say that a 0.2 movement speed on a unit is the most imbalanced thing ever etc.

there is no disadvantage in this calculation for apm as everyone is affected, so just dont compare it to BW and theres no difference.


Don't compare it because BW uses the correct calculation and SC2 does not?

You are thinking about this too hard. SC2 just needs to use real minutes, its literally a 5 minute change. Period.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
RmpL
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany263 Posts
August 26 2011 13:38 GMT
#24
I couldn't care less. The player APM remains the same, its just shown differently ..


The guys who spam ctrl groups just to show off how cool they are can go home now ..
Sanguinarius
Profile Joined January 2010
United States3427 Posts
August 26 2011 13:39 GMT
#25
Anyone who places weight on APM as a measure of actual skill is off base. Blizzard is just removing the "I spam apm to 300 - I must be pro" mentality.
Your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others -Heart of Darkness
Chaosvuistje
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands2581 Posts
August 26 2011 13:39 GMT
#26
Oh no, so APM will be a bad way to show players skill?

Well, I guess we need to look at actual execution now. Tragedy.
dbddbddb
Profile Joined April 2010
Singapore969 Posts
August 26 2011 13:39 GMT
#27
On August 26 2011 22:38 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 22:37 dbddbddb wrote:
On August 26 2011 22:34 Geovu wrote:
On August 26 2011 22:31 dbddbddb wrote:
On August 26 2011 22:30 Geovu wrote:
Bad IMO. I will still do the 'tapping' stuff either way, because it is actually necessary and helpful, but it just won't get counted.

In BW clicking on the minimap counted as an action iirc. Blizzard should just stop screwing with crap that wasn't even invented by blizzard. Also fix the 'minute' part of APM, make it count for 60 REAL seconds, because that is what a 'minute' IS.


that's impossible due to how the game was made. if that was the case, every timing in the game would have a decimal as it just wasnt calculated to be 60secs per min in faster mode.

Multiple by like what, x1.3 or divide by .7 (not sure which), and you are done.

lol not that hard. I don't care if something takes 103.67 seconds, you can show it as 104 seconds and it will be fine. Or just make the change for APM so that people stop thinking people in BW were unequivocally faster.



this includes build time for Everything in the game.. from units to upgrades etc, everything will have a decimal on it, you cant hide numbers from players like that. theres a reason why people say that a 0.2 movement speed on a unit is the most imbalanced thing ever etc.

there is no disadvantage in this calculation for apm as everyone is affected, so just dont compare it to BW and theres no difference.


Don't compare it because BW uses the correct calculation and SC2 does not?


different game, different mechanics.. even for apm calculation.

i dont know how anyone still hasnt gotten used to this...

there is no correct or wrong calculation for it considering it is an entirely new game.
MisterTea
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1047 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-26 13:42:04
August 26 2011 13:39 GMT
#28
Remove the APM tab for all I care, iI spam in the beginning a bit to keep my fingers warmed up and ready to press what i need


On August 26 2011 22:36 arbitrageur wrote:
zergs apm to drop significantly. 44v 55v 66v T.T sigh

EDIT: nevermind that would be 6 actions.


thier APM would not change, just what's displayed will, and who cares about that?
SecondSandwich
Profile Joined July 2008
United States319 Posts
August 26 2011 13:40 GMT
#29
I took the change as meaning that ctrl+4444444444 = 1 action, and 2354 stil = 4 actions.
"Whatever [flash] says is the best, is the best" -Artosis i!i!i!i!i!Find Match!i!i!i!i!!i
Telcontar
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom16710 Posts
August 26 2011 13:41 GMT
#30
Doesn't really affect me, and I don't see why it should bother others. Yes, Blizzard is kind of changing the definition of the term itself, but does it really matter as long as we can still check out the effective APM? Tapping between groups is good for keeping an eye on your production, but it's not like this change is going to stop you from doing it, is it?
Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.
syriuszonito
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland332 Posts
August 26 2011 13:42 GMT
#31
Pointless change tbh. If some ppl love to spam and watch their apm skyrocket why would you take it from them? As said before, apm should be actions per minute whether its spam or not its still an action. Cant see many ppl being happy about this change but i can easily imagine dissapointment of spammers whose apm will go down from 200 to 50 :D
The one || My stream http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/syriuszonito
AugustDreams
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia127 Posts
August 26 2011 13:42 GMT
#32
I'm fine with this change, as long as it can determine the difference between spamming and actual actions then I say go for it.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AugustDreams - My Let's Play Channel!
MepHiii
Profile Joined March 2011
Poland191 Posts
August 26 2011 13:43 GMT
#33
On August 26 2011 22:30 Geovu wrote:
Bad IMO. I will still do the 'tapping' stuff either way, because it is actually necessary and helpful, but it just won't get counted.

In BW clicking on the minimap counted as an action iirc. Blizzard should just stop screwing with crap that wasn't even invented by blizzard. Also fix the 'minute' part of APM, make it count for 60 REAL seconds, because that is what a 'minute' IS.

The only thing this will be helpful for is for idiots like merz who abuse the system, and for Vibe as well, since he does jack all with his 500 APM lol and everyone knows it. The thing is is that 'everyone' already knows to ignore the obvious spammers because they are playing shitty despite having 300+ APM.

can someone please at least warn this guy, such an unneccessary insult towards vibe and merz
gillon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Sweden1578 Posts
August 26 2011 13:43 GMT
#34
Retarded change, blizzard is saying that useful actions aren't actually useful. The spam is not just spam. It gives overview over production.
www.teamproperty.net | "You should hate losing, but you should never fear defeat." - 이윤열
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-26 13:44:48
August 26 2011 13:43 GMT
#35
Filtering out the spamming is a good thing in my regard.
When the observers check the APM, they want to see how fast a player can execute commandos,
not how fast a player can spam.

Now they only need to make one blizzard minute = one normal minute and everything is fine. ^^
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-26 13:50:03
August 26 2011 13:44 GMT
#36
On August 26 2011 22:39 dbddbddb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 22:38 sluggaslamoo wrote:
On August 26 2011 22:37 dbddbddb wrote:
On August 26 2011 22:34 Geovu wrote:
On August 26 2011 22:31 dbddbddb wrote:
On August 26 2011 22:30 Geovu wrote:
Bad IMO. I will still do the 'tapping' stuff either way, because it is actually necessary and helpful, but it just won't get counted.

In BW clicking on the minimap counted as an action iirc. Blizzard should just stop screwing with crap that wasn't even invented by blizzard. Also fix the 'minute' part of APM, make it count for 60 REAL seconds, because that is what a 'minute' IS.


that's impossible due to how the game was made. if that was the case, every timing in the game would have a decimal as it just wasnt calculated to be 60secs per min in faster mode.

Multiple by like what, x1.3 or divide by .7 (not sure which), and you are done.

lol not that hard. I don't care if something takes 103.67 seconds, you can show it as 104 seconds and it will be fine. Or just make the change for APM so that people stop thinking people in BW were unequivocally faster.



this includes build time for Everything in the game.. from units to upgrades etc, everything will have a decimal on it, you cant hide numbers from players like that. theres a reason why people say that a 0.2 movement speed on a unit is the most imbalanced thing ever etc.

there is no disadvantage in this calculation for apm as everyone is affected, so just dont compare it to BW and theres no difference.


Don't compare it because BW uses the correct calculation and SC2 does not?


different game, different mechanics.. even for apm calculation.

i dont know how anyone still hasnt gotten used to this...

there is no correct or wrong calculation for it considering it is an entirely new game.


Actually the term minute has a definition.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/minute

BW APM uses minutes. SC2 uses game "minutes" which aren't minutes, Blizzard just calls it that.

I would care less if Blizzard changed APM to APGM (actions per game minute) or what it is now EAPGM (effective actions per game minute), and Blizzard also showed APM alongside. But Blizzard redefining culturally accepted norms just because they can is going too far.


On August 26 2011 22:42 AugustDreams wrote:
I'm fine with this change, as long as it can determine the difference between spamming and actual actions then I say go for it.


It doesn't though, that's what a lot of people don't realise. If I select a building in order to see production so I can macro better, or screen switch to look out for harass, thats a useful action.

If I spam right click over and over in the same spot, that is a useless action. Blizzard is redefining what are useful and useless actions, by removing selections as actions, and keeping right click spam.


On August 26 2011 22:43 JustPassingBy wrote:
Filtering out the spamming is a good thing in my regard.
When the observers check the APM, they want to see how fast a player can execute commandos,
not how fast a player can spam.

Now they only need to make one blizzard minute = one normal minute and everything is fine. ^^


Nada switches screens all the time and ctrl groups and spams his workers. If he defends a blue-flame drop because of his reaction speed, that's due to him "spamming" all the time.

Nada, Flash, Jaedong they are all huge "spammers". They are also the best players in the history of BW.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
Hossinaut
Profile Joined June 2011
United States453 Posts
August 26 2011 13:46 GMT
#37
No matter what Blizz says our APM is, it doesn't really matter because SC2gears can tell you what it is for real-time and for Blizz time. So doesn't matter.
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
August 26 2011 13:47 GMT
#38
I don't get why people are talking as if this change would make them play better. Does having an APM of 300+ make you gather resources at 2x speed? Does having an APM lower than 10 make your units produce at 2x the production time?

No.
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
Kambing
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1176 Posts
August 26 2011 13:48 GMT
#39
On August 26 2011 22:46 Hossinaut wrote:
No matter what Blizz says our APM is, it doesn't really matter because SC2gears can tell you what it is for real-time and for Blizz time. So doesn't matter.


SC2gears mines information provided by the game. So (presumably) if the metric for APM changes in-game, then that will be reflected by sc2gears outside of the game. The only thing sc2gears does that's novel is do the calculation to translate from in-game time to real-time via this table:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Game_Speed
SecondChance
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia603 Posts
August 26 2011 13:48 GMT
#40
Tbh, I think it's silly. As others of said, they should of left it alone. Actions per minute is...well, actions per minute. Whether somebody is spamming the shit out of keys or whether they are actually useful is no argument to change it.

Like someone else said, just add "EAPM" underneath the original meter if this is such an issue to blizzard.
I see the want to in your eyes.
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