• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:38
CEST 19:38
KST 02:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced25BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 I offer completely free coaching services What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 741 users

APM measurements changes in 1.4.0 - Page 11

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 42 Next All
KCrazy
Profile Joined August 2009
United States278 Posts
August 26 2011 17:40 GMT
#201
Do this many people really think pros spam just to look cool? It'd be really sad if that's true..

Also does this effect apm building units or is it only control groups?
"We need alcohol" ~Stork
Kambing
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1176 Posts
August 26 2011 17:43 GMT
#202
On August 27 2011 02:40 KCrazy wrote:
Do this many people really think pros spam just to look cool? It'd be really sad if that's true..

Also does this effect apm building units or is it only control groups?


It affects any changes to what you are currently selecting. The third example in the OP illustrates this. There is no difference between selecting a unit and a building. The only thing that has changed is that a string of selection changes only count as a single action.
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
August 26 2011 17:43 GMT
#203
Also, why so many people are complaining about this vs Balance changes?

You guys do know that the people in charge of UI are not in charge of Balance?

This reminds me on how people complained when Blizzard changed the upgrade icons for coloured ones.

if you APM spam to warm up this won´t affect you anyways.
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
Turo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada333 Posts
August 26 2011 17:47 GMT
#204
This dropped my APM by about 50, from 110ish to 60ish.

If anything this just encourages me to play faster!
RivalryRedux
Profile Joined July 2009
United States173 Posts
August 26 2011 17:50 GMT
#205
Perhaps the worst thing about this change will be listening to commentators spend twice as long explaining why/how blizzard APM is not real APM every time the tab gets shown.
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10339 Posts
August 26 2011 17:52 GMT
#206
How about they show APM and EAPM? that would be nice.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
August 26 2011 17:52 GMT
#207
On August 27 2011 00:53 Zeke50100 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 00:35 Numy wrote:
On August 27 2011 00:30 Zeke50100 wrote:
ITT: People thinking everything has only one definition.

1 Minute is 60 seconds, regardless of how long those seconds are. It's not a "game minute"; it's a minute. Blame the fact that most games are played on the "Faster" speed and stop thinking Blizzard created their own time system.

Also, perhaps Actions per Minute means Actions per Minute, where Action would be every unique action? Tapping 5, then tapping it again half a second later without doing anything in between is not a unique action. APM counts how many unique actions have occurred (excluding repetitive move commands and such, because those are technically unique due to the changed unit positioning). It makes sense to me. It's an ambiguous term, and no amount of "But BW did it this way!" will change that >.>


So you just redefined your own term for action and then stated it's ambiguous because of this. That isn't really how you argue points. You are defining an Action as a unique Action which in itself is a circular reference so it doesn't really make any sense. Also noone said Blizzard created their own metric by which to define time, it's merely a factor of the current standard definition. People want it not to be a factor of that definition.


"How many fruits have you eaten"

Choose one of the following:

"I've eaten apple, orange, and banana"

OR

"I've eaten 7 apples, 3 oranges, and 16 bananas, so 26 fruits in total"

That's what I'm saying. As for the time issue, instead of saying Blizzard should change APM and multiply it by 1.38, they should instead make Faster the default option. It's a much neater change, because it doesn't involve applying the calculations to standardize the value for every game speed.


Odd, that's exactly what I and others have said. Don't really get why you arguing same point with the same people oO
BlitzerSC
Profile Joined May 2011
Italy8800 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-26 17:54:45
August 26 2011 17:54 GMT
#208
On August 27 2011 02:40 KCrazy wrote:
Do this many people really think pros spam just to look cool? It'd be really sad if that's true..

Also does this effect apm building units or is it only control groups?


Well, who cares ! They can still spam if they want. The APM tab will show now the TRUE ( almost ) apm of a player
Blackk
Profile Joined November 2010
South Africa226 Posts
August 26 2011 17:56 GMT
#209
At the end of the day the only thing that matters is who gets the ladder points.
hah.
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
August 26 2011 17:56 GMT
#210
Make APM an analytical tool that more closely measures game results, rather than someone attempting to mangle the UI? Get shit on by TL forumgoers.
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
Meta
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States6225 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-26 18:04:08
August 26 2011 18:00 GMT
#211
Same thing as the difference between apm and effective apm in BWchart back in the brood war days. All in all it doesn't matter and I don't care about this change at all.

Edit: I'm still going to spam, and so are the pros that spam, because that's just how we play the game. Why would you let this change affect the way you play?
good vibes only
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
August 26 2011 18:01 GMT
#212
On August 27 2011 02:56 Blackk wrote:
At the end of the day the only thing that matters is who gets the ladder points.


But tasteless is going to steal them anyways
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
TheRPGAddict
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1403 Posts
August 26 2011 18:03 GMT
#213
I think it is bad because APM is an actual physicality that can be fun to look at. Blizzard didn't even invent the shit and now they are messing with it, they have no right imo.
TheRPGAddict
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1403 Posts
August 26 2011 18:04 GMT
#214
On August 26 2011 22:43 gillon wrote:
Retarded change, blizzard is saying that useful actions aren't actually useful. The spam is not just spam. It gives overview over production.
This, the tapping "spam" is actually a necessity and it factors into one's skill and gameplay and thus should be counted.
Dharmok
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands57 Posts
August 26 2011 18:11 GMT
#215
On August 27 2011 03:04 TheRPGAddict wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 22:43 gillon wrote:
Retarded change, blizzard is saying that useful actions aren't actually useful. The spam is not just spam. It gives overview over production.
This, the tapping "spam" is actually a necessity and it factors into one's skill and gameplay and thus should be counted.


I completely agree as well. Tapping is necessary, without you will never be able to macro efficiently. If in addition to APM they want to introduce an eAPM statistic, I'm all for that. Both are interesting facts to measure your grasp of the game and to analyse your improvement from replay to replay.
Only dead fish go with the flow
KCrazy
Profile Joined August 2009
United States278 Posts
August 26 2011 18:14 GMT
#216
On August 27 2011 02:54 BlitzerSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 02:40 KCrazy wrote:
Do this many people really think pros spam just to look cool? It'd be really sad if that's true..

Also does this effect apm building units or is it only control groups?


Well, who cares ! They can still spam if they want. The APM tab will show now the TRUE ( almost ) apm of a player


well that depends on what you would consider an action. If you hotkey buildings to check upgrade progress, shouldn't checking those be considered an action? I mean in the end it doesn't matter, people will do that anyways but i just dont see why people assume that pros would purposely spam and tire themselves out without a good reason to!

"We need alcohol" ~Stork
TheRealPaciFist
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1049 Posts
August 26 2011 18:16 GMT
#217
How about

224455224455

?

I trust that's either 12 or 6 actions, rather than just 1
Second favorite strategy game of all time: Starcraft. First: Go (aka Wei Qi, Paduk, or Igo)
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
August 26 2011 18:20 GMT
#218
good change. Effective apm is a more interesting statistic then apm imo. Still both are pretty much meaningless statistics so why care that much?
Kambing
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1176 Posts
August 26 2011 18:21 GMT
#219
On August 27 2011 03:16 TheRealPaciFist wrote:
How about

224455224455

?

I trust that's either 12 or 6 actions, rather than just 1


See the OP. On live that's 12 actions. On the PTR, that's 1.

At the start of the game on the PTR, your APM will probably be 0 after your initial split because you won't be able to do any meaningful actions (unless you drone stack).
Fraidnot
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States824 Posts
August 26 2011 18:21 GMT
#220
This is like repainting the titanic. as long as SC2 apm isn't calculated by the actual minute trying to accurately represent someones apm isn't going to happen.
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 42 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
14:00
Bracket Day 2 - Final
LiquipediaDiscussion
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Clem vs Reynor
RotterdaM2336
ComeBackTV 1818
IndyStarCraft 578
WardiTV404
CranKy Ducklings200
Rex132
3DClanTV 118
EnkiAlexander 64
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 2713
IndyStarCraft 569
Rex 128
Vindicta 27
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 34723
Larva 935
Nal_rA 734
BeSt 417
Shine 402
firebathero 291
Soulkey 150
Hyun 77
sSak 37
yabsab 29
[ Show more ]
Free 23
Terrorterran 16
IntoTheRainbow 7
Dota 2
Gorgc6842
qojqva3981
420jenkins406
Counter-Strike
fl0m3774
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor646
Liquid`Hasu432
Other Games
B2W.Neo551
Hui .210
KnowMe140
QueenE97
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1867
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 54
• HeavenSC 39
• Adnapsc2 12
• iHatsuTV 11
• Legendk 8
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki18
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Nemesis2457
• WagamamaTV732
League of Legends
• Jankos2033
Other Games
• imaqtpie511
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
22m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Wardi Open
17h 22m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 16h
WardiTV European League
1d 22h
Online Event
1d 23h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.